From a Roleplaying perspective the labor system does make sense. In life no one can work 24/7 and not have to sleep. That's why business owners hire employees to work for them etc.
As a monetization system on the other hand... We will see.
Originally posted by Dreamo84 From a Roleplaying perspective the labor system does make sense. In life no one can work 24/7 and not have to sleep. That's why business owners hire employees to work for them etc.
As a monetization system on the other hand... We will see.
While I get your point, if no one IRL can do it 24/7, then whenever they stop and sleep, they'll also stop playing the game and whatever they were doing in it :P
This whole argument started months ago when the discussion revolved around the Russian and Korean models being P2W. But Trion was going to do it differently. Trion was going to manage it's cash shop like Rift's and have a fairly non-invasive model. There were questions about the LP system specifially and how it made the foreign markets P2W and how that would be avoided here, and the answer was "Trion is looking into that" as if that was the final answer. Well, I guess it was, really. So, here we have a game that is known to be P2W in other markets that was ported to the West with the promise to change the business modle so it was not going to be P2W. Only now, the business model is not changing. It's the same as it is in the other markets. But yet here in the West, it's not going to be P2W? How does that work? If Cash Shopped LP is P2W in Korea, how is it not in the West?
Labor points are just FFXIV's Fatigue System only they made it so you can PAY to negate it.
FFXIV's Fatigue system was one of the worst ideas and one of the main reasons FF14 failed hard core and was totted as the worst MMO to ever launch at the time.
So yeah, Labor Points are horrible, sorry Bill I don't agree at all, I tried to read and I tried to understand but this system doesn't balance out no lifers and non no lifers, it makes people with deep wallets negate the balancing system.
I mean originally you couldn't even use the AH as a free to play player? They had the balls to call this a F2P game?
The whole article just smells like clickbait to me.
I've seen mmorpg.com coming back to this scheme more often recently. Scan the forum for hot topics, create an unpopular opinion and rub it into people's faces. Stuff that regular users would be banned for trolling for.
We've had these articles coming in for a while, mostly by C. Gonsalez. Threads with 30 pages of at times raging discussion about what people don't like about a game (i.e. ESO at that time) and three days later suddenly an "article" with a "you are all doing it wrong", "why XY is good" or "you don't get the point" theme.
It's just to stir up controversy and drive the pagehits up.
LP is a cash grab + time gate inherited from web/mobile games. It exists solely for milking people from real money if they want to play the game - at all or while not being a cripple.
If you're concerned about economy health, then in game so focused on crafting like AA it should be only:
- irreversible decay (even with repairing) with some exceptions (boats, houses, etc.)
- maintenance, repair, rebuild costs (everything, no exceptions)
- properly balanced material income (gathering, crafting, farming mobs, etc.) and outcome (decay, repairs, maintenance)
- not turning game into geargrind ratrace and keeping gear as a tool for the job (for the most part at least) - which should be no brainer in pvp focused game like AA
And that's all is needed for healthy economy. Sword that never breaks is as stupid as hp potion that never ends.
This. Labor points are a method by which Trion can monetize actions taken in their game.
I don't like it. If you want to charge me access for your client (box) or your servers (subscription), by all means, do that. I don't mind, I see the logic.
However, to say that you're balancing an economy with cash shop items seems... Shady. Especially when there are other, more organic methods to balance said economy that don't require players to fork over extra cash to Trion.
I don't doomcall based solely on this system. But to support it as a positive is to ignore the fact that Trion monetized a traditionally organic (and free) system within their game. All in the name of economy balance that has been achieved multiple times by other developers without asking for extra cash from players to participate in activities within your game.
i tryed the beta out .unless your pay them funds to play u can't craft worth a darn !!!!
u First need to farm mats that uses labor points then u need to wait 1-2 hrs to save up more point to chop down another tree it takes 20 or so trees chopped to farm the mats to be able to craft 1 boat and u need to then use more points to do a 5 second craft to make the boat
all in all 4-5 hrs + to craft 1 boat
unless u pay them 30$ a month to get there Member status this said to be a F2P well this game is NOT a f2p if u need to pay to craft or buy pots to craft
this game might have the looks but that's about it i rather play EverQuest 2 or Fallen Earth
i do play p2p games alot but not going to dish out funds to play a P2W game
thats said now about houses u need to be a member to own a house in the game i rather play other F2P where EVERY ONE gets a house and doesn't need to be a P2W member
i could bring up SoE " next " mmo but there to much fuel on the fire all ready i see this game been great on release then die out like other AAA mmo s they tryed copying other mmo s ideas
What ever Trion does with AA I'm sure they won't f*ck it over to the extent mail.ru has for us. With the recent public outcries against their Archium innovations I decided to abstain from the Founder program, however.
Probs will take a look at it post-launch as an F2Player still.
You can't have it all folks, especially when you don't pay for it.
Except that even if you pay for it monthly you are still restricted and people spending money on LP potions have a 90% advantage over you.
Originally posted by JDis25
I personally think that just because you have more time to devote to a game should not make you leaps and bounds ahead or better than everyone else. The people who play 10 hours a day will still have an advantage over casual players, LP merely tips the scales a bit. Plus if you farm gold enough, you will be able to buy LP pots on the AH.
LP is fine, it will all be fine.
In case you did not get the memo. LP potions give you 24,000 LP per day while PATRONS get 2,880 LP if they stay online 24h if not they get 1,440 LP per day.
----
Just tips the scale, my ass.
Yup I had every intention of playing this game and being a patron...until I found out I was going to be a second class citizen as a subscriber. It will be a cold day in hell before I give a company 15 a month to be a second class citizen AT ANYTHING in the game. If I'm paying a sub I should have have all the advantages over fee to play. The fact that as a patron, if I give them no more money than my sub fee, I'll be at 10% of the labor point effectiveness and gain of someone who keeps giving them money is absolutely disgusting. I've actually uninstalled every Trion game and will never play another game with their name on it.
What I find laughable is these pathetic people who derailed so many other games as P2W yet now that its "their game" AA they defend it to the death as no big deal. Companies deserve to make money, but only the naive line up and happily give a company money to be only marginally better than a freebie player. So smarter of the MMO crowd who prefer to stand up against companies double, triple, infinite dipping customers with no integrity or respect, will happily avoid this game. Shame really, I really wanted this game, couldn't wait for it. But I will not stomach being treated by a second class by any game company. They can take this game, along with the rest they operate, and shove it.
Completely agree! I have uninstalled Glyph too and every TRION game along with. Already stopped playing Defiance after their latest patch that nerfed the game in favor of cash shop.
So I was not at all suprised when seeing the last patch notes and cash shop additions in ArcheAge last week.
The reason why People are hardcore defending, is because they wasted $150 dollars on founder packs and are in a state of shock.
Just give it a few weeks after launch and they´ll wake from it.
AA is P2W right now. Sorry Suzie but you are 100% wrong in your article and it smacks of a kool aid drinker than a reasoning person. If players can pay thousands of Dollars to run a server and have a major advantage over other players its 100% bad. There is no covering this up with some rose scented words. Its complete and uder BS
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read.
He starts out saying there are "multitudinous reasons" why he likes the LP system, but only talks about one. That being he thinks the LP system helps level the playing field for players who do not have time to spend in game 24/7. Unfortunately even this reason is bogus. In fact the LP system works in the favour of those that can spend long hours online and who are also willing to pay money to win.
The fact that you can buy LP from the AH also actually aids those that can spend all day playing. That's because you need gold to buy off the auction house and the people with the most gold will be those who have spent the most time grinding, not those spending a couple of hours a day on it.
In addition, although the article is titled "Why the Labor system is good", it is really just some kind of rebuttal to the recent criticism about labor potions. He goes into no depth at all about why the labor system is needed in game or debate its merits and demerits.
I find it very strange how fast and how much energy MMORPG has put into being the fire brigade for Gaming company. Until today I have always considered this site a advocate for players. After this I no long believe that. To come so fast and hard to in the defense of a gaming company that player have a legitimate concern about a game is unprofessional as a site said to be for players. I have for years link article from this site and considers the writers fair minded and professional this thread shows that i was mistaken.
Id like to think that 4 hours cd on LP pots was only for open beta..so ppl can get to the core of the game!They cant be so stupid! Otherwise i fill sry for this beautiful game ....doomed.
There is no way that P2W is ever good for the economy, no matter how much you want the game to succeed, no matter how much you love the game. Trying to defend ArcheAge is like trying to defend a rapist. It's exactly those same people that high praise TESO, but not even 6 months in and they've lost half their registered player base. While SquareEnix and FF14 understood clearly, that when FF14 released for the first time that it would fail miserably, so they scratched it and released FF14 : ARR and almost a year in and it's still very active and still maintaining a solid player base.
There is no credit to be handed over on to ArcheAge and XLGames, if they were really serious about their game, which isn't the case by the way (Since the game will clearly try and grab every possible penny from every player) , they would of done like SquareEnix and start over on a few features and get it right the first time. FF14 ARR got a second chance, because let's face it, the Final Fantasy franchise is THE best franchise the RPG world has even seen. While ArcheAge is just another generic F2P / P2W title with great graphics, but with a empty soul.
It's quite a shame, what we can do with technology these days when it comes to a MMO, amazing graphics, in depth character creation, but it's all for nothing when the Devs / Pubs try every possible corner to screw players out of their wallets. Just do the darn titles legit P2P and be done with it. WoW and FF14 ARR still have millions of subs at their disposal and both companies are well beyond the green light, profit wise.
It's also funny how people like me are called "haters", well of course I'll hate on something which I find stupid, especially TESO and ArcheAge, and soon Star Citizen if they keep releasing these stupid stretch goals instead of releasing the game. What really grind my gears and why I "hate" on MMO's such as TESO and ArcheAge in particular, is because most of you and even some that work with MMORPG.COM high praise these games as if they are going to be the next ground breaking MMO experience we have ever seen. When in fact they end up being mediocre at best. Stop high praising mediocre up coming releases right off the bat, and chances are you'll get a lot less "hate" replies. Just a hint to MMORPG.com , remove the hype meter, it'll do you some good. Hype meter on this site = false advertisement.
So there you have it, now time to watch some Monday night football and eat a slice of apple pie with a scoop of French vanilla ice cream.
"I could understand the cries of Pay to Win, but that’s not really the case here. You see, these Labor Potions are tradable, and can be placed on the Auction House as well so players can make in-game money from them."
So you can buy labor points in the cash shop, sell them on the auction house and make in-game money. How is that not pay to win?
Effort potential?
More like a time limit. Oh boy systems that punish the player after some daily limit. Once you hit that daily limit you can still play but can't craft or harvest or do any labor point stuff unless you buy more or you could just log off. Should they really be putting in systems that encourage the player to log off? Wouldn't this kill any chance a weekend warrior gamer has?
Remove labor points and put in item decay to make the economy work and the game more sandbox.
The labor point system is just fine. People like this guy here have obviously made a wrong turn on the information superhighway. Archeage is not just a farm/crafting/harvesting game, it is also a PvP game. If you only login and want to do the farming then you need to go here https://www.farmville.com/ . I think that will suit your gameplay.
People cry about items being sold in a Free 2 play game. It is mind boggling. The pussification of America continues.
There is no way that P2W is ever good for the economy, no matter how much you want the game to succeed, no matter how much you love the game. Trying to defend ArcheAge is like trying to defend a rapist. It's exactly those same people that high praise TESO, but not even 6 months in and they've lost half their registered player base. While SquareEnix and FF14 understood clearly, that when FF14 released for the first time that it would fail miserably, so they scratched it and released FF14 : ARR and almost a year in and it's still very active and still maintaining a solid player base.
There is no credit to be handed over on to ArcheAge and XLGames, if they were really serious about their game, which isn't the case by the way (Since the game will clearly try and grab every possible penny from every player) , they would of done like SquareEnix and start over on a few features and get it right the first time. FF14 ARR got a second chance, because let's face it, the Final Fantasy franchise is THE best franchise the RPG world has even seen. While ArcheAge is just another generic F2P / P2W title with great graphics, but with a empty soul.
It's quite a shame, what we can do with technology these days when it comes to a MMO, amazing graphics, in depth character creation, but it's all for nothing when the Devs / Pubs try every possible corner to screw players out of their wallets. Just do the darn titles legit P2P and be done with it. WoW and FF14 ARR still have millions of subs at their disposal and both companies are well beyond the green light, profit wise.
It's also funny how people like me are called "haters", well of course I'll hate on something which I find stupid, especially TESO and ArcheAge, and soon Star Citizen if they keep releasing these stupid stretch goals instead of releasing the game. What really grind my gears and why I "hate" on MMO's such as TESO and ArcheAge in particular, is because most of you and even some that work with MMORPG.COM high praise these games as if they are going to be the next ground breaking MMO experience we have ever seen. When in fact they end up being mediocre at best. Stop high praising mediocre up coming releases right off the bat, and chances are you'll get a lot less "hate" replies. Just a hint to MMORPG.com , remove the hype meter, it'll do you some good. Hype meter on this site = false advertisement.
So there you have it, now time to watch some Monday night football and eat a slice of apple pie with a scoop of French vanilla ice cream.
The only thing to take seriously in the above post was the Monday Night Football and Pie reference.
People do not realize, they do not have to pay a dime to play. Enjoy your free ride, join an organized guild and enjoy the game for free.
You bitch because they ask for cash to pay for their work. Wow. How dare they.
If Archeage went pay 2 play and removed the cash shop, then you would be bitching about gold farmers selling in game gold for cash. If there were no restrictions on owning land with patron status, then you would be bitching about all the Gold Farmers gobbling up land. Quit your bitchin and go back to Maple Story.
"I could understand the cries of Pay to Win, but that’s not really the case here. You see, these Labor Potions are tradable, and can be placed on the Auction House as well so players can make in-game money from them."
So you can buy labor points in the cash shop, sell them on the auction house and make in-game money. How is that not pay to win?
Effort potential?
More like a time limit. Oh boy systems that punish the player after some daily limit. Once you hit that daily limit you can still play but can't craft or harvest or do any labor point stuff unless you buy more or you could just log off. Should they really be putting in systems that encourage the player to log off? Wouldn't this kill any chance a weekend warrior gamer has?
Remove labor points and put in item decay to make the economy work and the game more sandbox.
The labor point system is just fine. People like this guy here have obviously made a wrong turn on the information superhighway. Archeage is not just a farm/crafting/harvesting game, it is also a PvP game. If you only login and want to do the farming then you need to go here https://www.farmville.com/ . I think that will suit your gameplay.
People cry about items being sold in a Free 2 play game. It is mind boggling. The pussification of America continues.
Yeah, no.
Punish F2P players with a cash shop? Fine.
But even with a sub, people that like to play the crafting/farming side of the game will run into the labor point brick wall.
And then they have to buy from the cash shop.
So why pay a sub for a game that does not let you play the way you want, unless you spend even more money in the cash shop?
Comments
As a monetization system on the other hand... We will see.
While I get your point, if no one IRL can do it 24/7, then whenever they stop and sleep, they'll also stop playing the game and whatever they were doing in it :P
This is the thread winning post, can close it now
This whole argument started months ago when the discussion revolved around the Russian and Korean models being P2W. But Trion was going to do it differently. Trion was going to manage it's cash shop like Rift's and have a fairly non-invasive model. There were questions about the LP system specifially and how it made the foreign markets P2W and how that would be avoided here, and the answer was "Trion is looking into that" as if that was the final answer. Well, I guess it was, really. So, here we have a game that is known to be P2W in other markets that was ported to the West with the promise to change the business modle so it was not going to be P2W. Only now, the business model is not changing. It's the same as it is in the other markets. But yet here in the West, it's not going to be P2W? How does that work? If Cash Shopped LP is P2W in Korea, how is it not in the West?
Labor points are just FFXIV's Fatigue System only they made it so you can PAY to negate it.
FFXIV's Fatigue system was one of the worst ideas and one of the main reasons FF14 failed hard core and was totted as the worst MMO to ever launch at the time.
So yeah, Labor Points are horrible, sorry Bill I don't agree at all, I tried to read and I tried to understand but this system doesn't balance out no lifers and non no lifers, it makes people with deep wallets negate the balancing system.
I mean originally you couldn't even use the AH as a free to play player? They had the balls to call this a F2P game?
I'm sooo confused and saddened.
The whole article just smells like clickbait to me.
I've seen mmorpg.com coming back to this scheme more often recently. Scan the forum for hot topics, create an unpopular opinion and rub it into people's faces. Stuff that regular users would be banned for trolling for.
We've had these articles coming in for a while, mostly by C. Gonsalez. Threads with 30 pages of at times raging discussion about what people don't like about a game (i.e. ESO at that time) and three days later suddenly an "article" with a "you are all doing it wrong", "why XY is good" or "you don't get the point" theme.
It's just to stir up controversy and drive the pagehits up.
This. Labor points are a method by which Trion can monetize actions taken in their game.
I don't like it. If you want to charge me access for your client (box) or your servers (subscription), by all means, do that. I don't mind, I see the logic.
However, to say that you're balancing an economy with cash shop items seems... Shady. Especially when there are other, more organic methods to balance said economy that don't require players to fork over extra cash to Trion.
I don't doomcall based solely on this system. But to support it as a positive is to ignore the fact that Trion monetized a traditionally organic (and free) system within their game. All in the name of economy balance that has been achieved multiple times by other developers without asking for extra cash from players to participate in activities within your game.
the labor point system blows chowder !!!!
i tryed the beta out .unless your pay them funds to play u can't craft worth a darn !!!!
u First need to farm mats that uses labor points then u need to wait 1-2 hrs to save up more point to chop down another tree it takes 20 or so trees chopped to farm the mats to be able to craft 1 boat and u need to then use more points to do a 5 second craft to make the boat
all in all 4-5 hrs + to craft 1 boat
unless u pay them 30$ a month to get there Member status this said to be a F2P well this game is NOT a f2p if u need to pay to craft or buy pots to craft
this game might have the looks but that's about it i rather play EverQuest 2 or Fallen Earth
i do play p2p games alot but not going to dish out funds to play a P2W game
thats said now about houses u need to be a member to own a house in the game i rather play other F2P where EVERY ONE gets a house and doesn't need to be a P2W member
i could bring up SoE " next " mmo but there to much fuel on the fire all ready i see this game been great on release then die out like other AAA mmo s they tryed copying other mmo s ideas
moo all
What ever Trion does with AA I'm sure they won't f*ck it over to the extent mail.ru has for us. With the recent public outcries against their Archium innovations I decided to abstain from the Founder program, however.
Probs will take a look at it post-launch as an F2Player still.
>>SMITE<<
>>Strife: best ever MOBA<<
>>Rift: FREE Ally of the Ascended Pack<<
Completely agree! I have uninstalled Glyph too and every TRION game along with. Already stopped playing Defiance after their latest patch that nerfed the game in favor of cash shop.
So I was not at all suprised when seeing the last patch notes and cash shop additions in ArcheAge last week.
The reason why People are hardcore defending, is because they wasted $150 dollars on founder packs and are in a state of shock.
Just give it a few weeks after launch and they´ll wake from it.
AA is P2W right now. Sorry Suzie but you are 100% wrong in your article and it smacks of a kool aid drinker than a reasoning person. If players can pay thousands of Dollars to run a server and have a major advantage over other players its 100% bad. There is no covering this up with some rose scented words. Its complete and uder BS
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read.
He starts out saying there are "multitudinous reasons" why he likes the LP system, but only talks about one. That being he thinks the LP system helps level the playing field for players who do not have time to spend in game 24/7. Unfortunately even this reason is bogus. In fact the LP system works in the favour of those that can spend long hours online and who are also willing to pay money to win.
The fact that you can buy LP from the AH also actually aids those that can spend all day playing. That's because you need gold to buy off the auction house and the people with the most gold will be those who have spent the most time grinding, not those spending a couple of hours a day on it.
In addition, although the article is titled "Why the Labor system is good", it is really just some kind of rebuttal to the recent criticism about labor potions. He goes into no depth at all about why the labor system is needed in game or debate its merits and demerits.
Btw...shame on you Bill!
There is no way that P2W is ever good for the economy, no matter how much you want the game to succeed, no matter how much you love the game. Trying to defend ArcheAge is like trying to defend a rapist. It's exactly those same people that high praise TESO, but not even 6 months in and they've lost half their registered player base. While SquareEnix and FF14 understood clearly, that when FF14 released for the first time that it would fail miserably, so they scratched it and released FF14 : ARR and almost a year in and it's still very active and still maintaining a solid player base.
There is no credit to be handed over on to ArcheAge and XLGames, if they were really serious about their game, which isn't the case by the way (Since the game will clearly try and grab every possible penny from every player) , they would of done like SquareEnix and start over on a few features and get it right the first time. FF14 ARR got a second chance, because let's face it, the Final Fantasy franchise is THE best franchise the RPG world has even seen. While ArcheAge is just another generic F2P / P2W title with great graphics, but with a empty soul.
It's quite a shame, what we can do with technology these days when it comes to a MMO, amazing graphics, in depth character creation, but it's all for nothing when the Devs / Pubs try every possible corner to screw players out of their wallets. Just do the darn titles legit P2P and be done with it. WoW and FF14 ARR still have millions of subs at their disposal and both companies are well beyond the green light, profit wise.
It's also funny how people like me are called "haters", well of course I'll hate on something which I find stupid, especially TESO and ArcheAge, and soon Star Citizen if they keep releasing these stupid stretch goals instead of releasing the game. What really grind my gears and why I "hate" on MMO's such as TESO and ArcheAge in particular, is because most of you and even some that work with MMORPG.COM high praise these games as if they are going to be the next ground breaking MMO experience we have ever seen. When in fact they end up being mediocre at best. Stop high praising mediocre up coming releases right off the bat, and chances are you'll get a lot less "hate" replies. Just a hint to MMORPG.com , remove the hype meter, it'll do you some good. Hype meter on this site = false advertisement.
So there you have it, now time to watch some Monday night football and eat a slice of apple pie with a scoop of French vanilla ice cream.
The labor point system is just fine. People like this guy here have obviously made a wrong turn on the information superhighway. Archeage is not just a farm/crafting/harvesting game, it is also a PvP game. If you only login and want to do the farming then you need to go here https://www.farmville.com/ . I think that will suit your gameplay.
People cry about items being sold in a Free 2 play game. It is mind boggling. The pussification of America continues.
The only thing to take seriously in the above post was the Monday Night Football and Pie reference.
People do not realize, they do not have to pay a dime to play. Enjoy your free ride, join an organized guild and enjoy the game for free.
You bitch because they ask for cash to pay for their work. Wow. How dare they.
If Archeage went pay 2 play and removed the cash shop, then you would be bitching about gold farmers selling in game gold for cash. If there were no restrictions on owning land with patron status, then you would be bitching about all the Gold Farmers gobbling up land. Quit your bitchin and go back to Maple Story.
For the rest, enjoy AA.
Yeah, no.
Punish F2P players with a cash shop? Fine.
But even with a sub, people that like to play the crafting/farming side of the game will run into the labor point brick wall.
And then they have to buy from the cash shop.
So why pay a sub for a game that does not let you play the way you want, unless you spend even more money in the cash shop?
This might fly in Asia, but not here.
Dumb.