Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Again, the game's less than stellar reception has nothing to do with their choosing to go subscription based pay model. It has everything to do with their design decisions for the game.
Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Again, the game's less than stellar reception has nothing to do with their choosing to go subscription based pay model. It has everything to do with their design decisions for the game.
Hmm...I don't agree. Sure, not every system and design in Wildstar is perfect, but I would still say the game is definitely one of the best mmos out on the market now. The total package of this title is amazing. But the accessibility is lacking.
I would suggest to Carbine to do the following:
1)Get rid of the subscription and maybe even the box cost (i.e go full free to play). Too many people ignored this title because of the upfront cost. Many more players dropped this title because new players weren't joining.
2)Better optimize the client and lower the system requirement. Too many people simply had performance issues with this game, myself included. Who wants to play an MMO with under 30 FPS?
3)Still keep the hardcore community happy, but cater more towards the casual players. The hardcore players amount to a small percentage of the total player base. Doing things like making veteran dungeon medal run requirements very punishing and not very fun will quickly squash the hopes and dreams of casuals (who would have otherwise built up to hardcore players.)
This article talks of server mergers and such. i can defiantly see why there doing so. i played Wildstar for 2 months but not at launch. i do this now one to let the rush kill themselves thru and to see if the game has improved and from launch. that being said as for the server mergers i can see why there doing it. i tried two diff servers and man those things are ghost towns. one evening i played for 2 hours before i seen another soul.
Now the main question i have is, has Wildstar failed, or not? the game hasn't been out no time and servers are shrinking. this is obviously not a good sign. so what do you think. personally i think a buy to play option would have been better for this game at launch. at least then the players for the most part would still keep playing.
You can log into WoW on any given day and pretty much say the same thing. They've spread there playerbase across even more servers and their solution is to coalesce servers virtually in order to make them appear more full. Even doing all that they still can seem like ghost towns because there are so few really populated servers.
I agree that the subscription model was a bad choice... as it was for ESO.
And yet main cities in WOW are always packed. So that gives you a good idea about the population.
You know your game is in trouble when on friday night Thyad has 10 people and that also on one supposedly the most popular server. I really don't know how Carbine gonna dig themselves out of this hole. seems like a very tall order.
did wildstar game concept fail? well, it depends on the perspective. carbine delivered a typical 08/15 mmorpg with boring gear grinding as endgame content. some people like it, many people can't stand this concept any more. prove of this is f.e. the huge drop in active player numbers 2-3 months after swtor or teso launched. same fast food as ever? same reaction from the crowd as in the last 5 years. on top of it, the gear grinding process in wildstar was anything else but casual friendly in my opinion.
did wildstar financially fail? too early to say, because i guess long before this game was released carbine started working on a possible f2p version of their product. nowadays this isn't reaction based on server population anymore, its financial strategy. if you want to know if wildstar was a financial sucess, wait until 3 months after the change into f2p has been made and have an eye on the quarterly reports from nc soft.
but i applause carbine for the best promo cinematics i've ever seen made for mmorpg. greatly done with a lot of fun and esprit.
did wildstar game concept fail? well, it depends on the perspective. carbine delivered a typical 08/15 mmorpg with boring gear grinding as endgame content. some people like it, many people can't stand this concept any more. prove of this is f.e. the huge drop in active player numbers 2-3 months after swtor or teso launched. same fast food as ever? same reaction from the crowd as in the last 5 years. on top of it, the gear grinding process in wildstar was anything else but casual friendly in my opinion.
did wildstar financially fail? too early to say, because i guess long before this game was released carbine started working on a possible f2p version of their product. nowadays this isn't reaction based on server population anymore, its financial strategy. if you want to know if wildstar was a financial sucess, wait until 3 months after the change into f2p has been made and have an eye on the quarterly reports from nc soft.
but i applause carbine for the best promo cinematics i've ever seen made for mmorpg. greatly done with a lot of fun and esprit.
In its current state i would say yes. I doubt they are making a profit on their investment at this point.
This entire concept of whether MMORPGs "fail" or not needs to die in a fire. Play the games you enjoy and quit trying to develop some sort of superiority complex around them.
Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Again, the game's less than stellar reception has nothing to do with their choosing to go subscription based pay model. It has everything to do with their design decisions for the game.
Hmm...I don't agree. Sure, not every system and design in Wildstar is perfect, but I would still say the game is definitely one of the best mmos out on the market now. The total package of this title is amazing. But the accessibility is lacking.
I would suggest to Carbine to do the following:
1)Get rid of the subscription and maybe even the box cost (i.e go full free to play). Too many people ignored this title because of the upfront cost. Many more players dropped this title because new players weren't joining.
2)Better optimize the client and lower the system requirement. Too many people simply had performance issues with this game, myself included. Who wants to play an MMO with under 30 FPS?
3)Still keep the hardcore community happy, but cater more towards the casual players. The hardcore players amount to a small percentage of the total player base. Doing things like making veteran dungeon medal run requirements very punishing and not very fun will quickly squash the hopes and dreams of casuals (who would have otherwise built up to hardcore players.)
I think B2P model would be nice (i m not paying a sub anyway cause i m using CREDD), considering that many ppl already bought the game, so they will grand instant access.
Anyway i think WS have a great potential but only future will tell if they are going to fulfill it.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Not so much about the actual Wildstar game being a fail, but surely the beta and those that played it must have failed, because all the issues and dislikes now would surely have been there during the beta? Did people not give feedback or did Carbine not listen?
For me, there's two main issues with the actual gameplay (let's leave out the graphics as that's a matter of taste and a game can still be engrossing even if the graphics are not to taste):
1. Questing is tedious - just runing around endlessly doing the same thing with 30 quests on the go at once, all over the place, with no imagination ro story put into them. It's the worst kind of grind questing in any game I've played.
2. The endgame is aimed at Hardcore raiders. The MMO community has grown up now and we have families, jobs and responsibilities - how many 30+ yr old people can sit in front of a computer for 3 hours at a time and get away with it on a regular basis?
If no-one (that cared) fed in the feedback or if the feedback was ignored, then it's obvious it would struggle.
I suspect that Carbine wanted to press on with their niche hardcore raiding game, perhaps because the designers enjoy that type of game, without considering the lack of market for it - can't make sales and keep people if it's not their thing.
Now the main question i have is, has Wildstar failed, or not?
Failed, no not by a long shot. But it have been less of a hit than the devs wanted and this does in a way prove the danger of listening to people like the ones that frequent these forums. Turns out most people did in fact not want things to be harder and pretty much nobody seems to have really wanted 40-man raiding back.
But i would not call it a failed game. It just have a pretty steep hill to climb in order to get really good.
Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Again, the game's less than stellar reception has nothing to do with their choosing to go subscription based pay model. It has everything to do with their design decisions for the game.
Hmm...I don't agree. Sure, not every system and design in Wildstar is perfect, but I would still say the game is definitely one of the best mmos out on the market now. The total package of this title is amazing. But the accessibility is lacking.
I would suggest to Carbine to do the following:
1)Get rid of the subscription and maybe even the box cost (i.e go full free to play). Too many people ignored this title because of the upfront cost. Many more players dropped this title because new players weren't joining.
2)Better optimize the client and lower the system requirement. Too many people simply had performance issues with this game, myself included. Who wants to play an MMO with under 30 FPS?
3)Still keep the hardcore community happy, but cater more towards the casual players. The hardcore players amount to a small percentage of the total player base. Doing things like making veteran dungeon medal run requirements very punishing and not very fun will quickly squash the hopes and dreams of casuals (who would have otherwise built up to hardcore players.)
You say you don't agree that Wildstar's major problem is its design choices yet you turn around and list one of the 3 problems as clearly being design choices. Also they are already working on better optimizing the game. These things take time however.
I actually don't want Wildstar to fail btw and if they can sort out the tedium of the way the quests are designed i.e. less but with a more interesting aspect to them, and inject a load of casual content so that those of us who have other things going on in life can still enjoy it at endgame, then I'll come back and so will dozens of people I know who've tried and left it.
Now the main question i have is, has Wildstar failed, or not?
Failed, no not by a long shot. But it have been less of a hit than the devs wanted and this does in a way prove the danger of listening to people like the ones that frequent these forums. Turns out most people did in fact not want things to be harder and pretty much nobody seems to have really wanted 40-man raiding back.
But i would not call it a failed game. It just have a pretty steep hill to climb in order to get really good.
They might want to get a wriggle on climbing that hill. WOD is released in November then its gg trying to recapture lost players or enticing new ones.
I think the problem is that their market research department did the standard profiles of what MMO-phytes want...but it was five years ago. Things have changed dramatically since then and when they had already committed to making this kind of game when it became clear it was somewhat anachronistic and the format is years behind what people are already sick to death of. I think this is a good thing though, the more games like this are passed over by players the closer we'll get to the next innovative milestones...whatever they may be.
I think it is too early to say whether WS has failed or not.
I think that this title was meant to be niche from the get-go and I even said so in the headstart days. I did not think that this game would have a large population because of its endgame mainly. It just stands to reason that a lot of today's MMO players do not really have the time to spend on long attunements and getting 39 other people together and organized to go raid. I think it is mainly that design decision that affects the population over most of the others that people have mentioned as possible reasons why players don't stay in this game.
I bet that if Carbine were to allow the option to reduce the raid size to 20 people but maintain the raids' difficulty, things would pan out for the better for most guilds even if they were to keep everything else the same.
The second big issue as I see it is the lacklustre classes and lack of balance between them. Customizability is poor, very poor and there are must-have specs with little option to design the character you want to play. I see that not many people mention this but rather mention the quests. I actually found the quests more interesting than the classes but the end result stays the same: tedium.
I think if Carbine were to look into offering 20 man versions of raids, redesign the classes to add more flavor, variety and interest in them, it would help this game out a lot and would insure WS' success. I think a questhub themepark can still survive in today's MMORPG genre, but I find that Carbine's vision has been a bit too exclusive to make this game really shine. It is a shame because it has an excellent foundation and some fantastic ideas in it.
Empty games are a strange new phenomenon that we're seeing not just in MMOs but across many games. Look at Titanfall on the PC for example, even during the recent free weekend it was hard to get a round with the matchmaking system.
I believe the problem is market saturation. We have many often free choices and premium AAA titles to choose from. Anything that offers only cookie cutter bog standard and doesn't hook people in quickly tends to be forgotten, ignored and bleeds players fast.
With Wildstar I think they attempted to appeal to the wrong audience (hardcore raiders) with the wrong methods (cartoony graphics and many levels of boring ass gameplay). They forgot who pays the bills (30-something casuals with responsibilities) and didn't do nearly enough to hook them in early enough. A lot of people called them out on it online on sites like MMORPG.com during beta. Sadly they didn't listen or were too far along to change things and Lonelystar is the result.
Good luck Carbine.
There are indeed many alternatives - not just games either, films, books, going out for a meal.
Titanfall. Meal in a café. People bought it, consumed it moved on until the next meal. Sales were OK, the game itself was well received, every chance that people will pop in again later and pick up some extras (DLC).
WS / TESO. All you can eat buffet. Lots of counters, promises of lots of food to come. You are expected to keep paying though once through the door - that is what the owners have budgeted for. Not enough customers. The food dries up. Owners cut back on the range of dishes to save money - but you are still expected to pay because ... whoops.
Comments
Remember when Carbine took a large chunk of time to decide whether they would stick with their sub model or adopt free to play? I guess we now see the results of that decision. Either way, I still think its a good game.
Again, the game's less than stellar reception has nothing to do with their choosing to go subscription based pay model. It has everything to do with their design decisions for the game.
Hmm...I don't agree. Sure, not every system and design in Wildstar is perfect, but I would still say the game is definitely one of the best mmos out on the market now. The total package of this title is amazing. But the accessibility is lacking.
I would suggest to Carbine to do the following:
1)Get rid of the subscription and maybe even the box cost (i.e go full free to play). Too many people ignored this title because of the upfront cost. Many more players dropped this title because new players weren't joining.
2)Better optimize the client and lower the system requirement. Too many people simply had performance issues with this game, myself included. Who wants to play an MMO with under 30 FPS?
3)Still keep the hardcore community happy, but cater more towards the casual players. The hardcore players amount to a small percentage of the total player base. Doing things like making veteran dungeon medal run requirements very punishing and not very fun will quickly squash the hopes and dreams of casuals (who would have otherwise built up to hardcore players.)
And yet main cities in WOW are always packed. So that gives you a good idea about the population.
You know your game is in trouble when on friday night Thyad has 10 people and that also on one supposedly the most popular server. I really don't know how Carbine gonna dig themselves out of this hole. seems like a very tall order.
did wildstar game concept fail? well, it depends on the perspective. carbine delivered a typical 08/15 mmorpg with boring gear grinding as endgame content. some people like it, many people can't stand this concept any more. prove of this is f.e. the huge drop in active player numbers 2-3 months after swtor or teso launched. same fast food as ever? same reaction from the crowd as in the last 5 years. on top of it, the gear grinding process in wildstar was anything else but casual friendly in my opinion.
did wildstar financially fail? too early to say, because i guess long before this game was released carbine started working on a possible f2p version of their product. nowadays this isn't reaction based on server population anymore, its financial strategy. if you want to know if wildstar was a financial sucess, wait until 3 months after the change into f2p has been made and have an eye on the quarterly reports from nc soft.
but i applause carbine for the best promo cinematics i've ever seen made for mmorpg. greatly done with a lot of fun and esprit.
In its current state i would say yes. I doubt they are making a profit on their investment at this point.
Agree
Drop 3 will have huge changes / fixes to every core system in the game and megaservers are coming. With the yesterday's weekly patch https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/113180-update-notes-09112014/ attunement changed already along with other things.
I think B2P model would be nice (i m not paying a sub anyway cause i m using CREDD), considering that many ppl already bought the game, so they will grand instant access.
Anyway i think WS have a great potential but only future will tell if they are going to fulfill it.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Not so much about the actual Wildstar game being a fail, but surely the beta and those that played it must have failed, because all the issues and dislikes now would surely have been there during the beta? Did people not give feedback or did Carbine not listen?
For me, there's two main issues with the actual gameplay (let's leave out the graphics as that's a matter of taste and a game can still be engrossing even if the graphics are not to taste):
1. Questing is tedious - just runing around endlessly doing the same thing with 30 quests on the go at once, all over the place, with no imagination ro story put into them. It's the worst kind of grind questing in any game I've played.
2. The endgame is aimed at Hardcore raiders. The MMO community has grown up now and we have families, jobs and responsibilities - how many 30+ yr old people can sit in front of a computer for 3 hours at a time and get away with it on a regular basis?
If no-one (that cared) fed in the feedback or if the feedback was ignored, then it's obvious it would struggle.
I suspect that Carbine wanted to press on with their niche hardcore raiding game, perhaps because the designers enjoy that type of game, without considering the lack of market for it - can't make sales and keep people if it's not their thing.
Failed, no not by a long shot. But it have been less of a hit than the devs wanted and this does in a way prove the danger of listening to people like the ones that frequent these forums. Turns out most people did in fact not want things to be harder and pretty much nobody seems to have really wanted 40-man raiding back.
But i would not call it a failed game. It just have a pretty steep hill to climb in order to get really good.
This have been a good conversation
You say you don't agree that Wildstar's major problem is its design choices yet you turn around and list one of the 3 problems as clearly being design choices. Also they are already working on better optimizing the game. These things take time however.
They might want to get a wriggle on climbing that hill. WOD is released in November then its gg trying to recapture lost players or enticing new ones.
seriously guys? aren't you tired of that " ws failed" crap? ! this is like a magazine for women - same shit over and over just the title is different!
i am already fed up with all these ws articles.
GW2 has problem but the very cool thing is that even months after release, most of the zones (especially the starting ones) are still full of people.
Not only because of the servers tech, but because of the fact that farming any zones at any level still reward you with xp/gold/mats.
Dunno why new mmo don't all do that.
It seems devs really enjoy creating amazing zones for months/years, knowing players will leveling through it in 1-2 days and then never come back.
I think it is too early to say whether WS has failed or not.
I think that this title was meant to be niche from the get-go and I even said so in the headstart days. I did not think that this game would have a large population because of its endgame mainly. It just stands to reason that a lot of today's MMO players do not really have the time to spend on long attunements and getting 39 other people together and organized to go raid. I think it is mainly that design decision that affects the population over most of the others that people have mentioned as possible reasons why players don't stay in this game.
I bet that if Carbine were to allow the option to reduce the raid size to 20 people but maintain the raids' difficulty, things would pan out for the better for most guilds even if they were to keep everything else the same.
The second big issue as I see it is the lacklustre classes and lack of balance between them. Customizability is poor, very poor and there are must-have specs with little option to design the character you want to play. I see that not many people mention this but rather mention the quests. I actually found the quests more interesting than the classes but the end result stays the same: tedium.
I think if Carbine were to look into offering 20 man versions of raids, redesign the classes to add more flavor, variety and interest in them, it would help this game out a lot and would insure WS' success. I think a questhub themepark can still survive in today's MMORPG genre, but I find that Carbine's vision has been a bit too exclusive to make this game really shine. It is a shame because it has an excellent foundation and some fantastic ideas in it.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
There are indeed many alternatives - not just games either, films, books, going out for a meal.
Titanfall. Meal in a café. People bought it, consumed it moved on until the next meal. Sales were OK, the game itself was well received, every chance that people will pop in again later and pick up some extras (DLC).
WS / TESO. All you can eat buffet. Lots of counters, promises of lots of food to come. You are expected to keep paying though once through the door - that is what the owners have budgeted for. Not enough customers. The food dries up. Owners cut back on the range of dishes to save money - but you are still expected to pay because ... whoops.