Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Some old farts says DaoC PVP were the best, I dont think so
Torgrim
Member CommonPosts: 2,088
Well I did play DaoC for about a year when it came out and I really loved the PVP aspect of the game alot back then, well ofc I did, there were no other game at that time that had that kind of PVP.
Fast foward, today we have plenty of MMOs and many of them such as GW2, ESO, Linage, and others also have large scale PVP but still some people says DaoC had better PVP, well I wont say you are wrong but look at this, DaoC was as far as i know one of the first fantasy MMO that had that kind of PVP so ofc you were in awe during the whole ride.
Yes what I'm getting at this is that rose colored glasses syndrome applies here, you wont find that special PVP moments you had in DaoC for the simple reason it was your first taste of that kind of PVP and you LIKED it, and yes I'm advocating the first kiss argument on this one.
Still I see respons after respons after respons in plenty of PVP threads that DaoC PVP were better, lets face it It were not, classes were unbalanced, factions were inbalanced ect, we at the time time thought great that is what happends, we thought this is suppose to be so we fought harder, now when we know better when we have plenty of games under our belt can you honestly say DaoC PVP were better?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Comments
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
Probably you never played GW1's GvG? That was some intense shit.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Your post says nothing, please explain why you find that PVP so much better or dont post at all.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
For me it was not that the game was better. The experience was better because of the communication and interaction that had to take place between players. The social aspect is what makes it different. When you can port around and jump in queues etc. There is less feeling of a "world". Jumping into the action is great but it is a different experience. Also populations in games are way higher. People in DAoC used to know the major players. You could become well known etc.
It is not the game, it is the generation of games and gamers. There is no way to reverse this change since not enough people would play a game that took that kind of work anymore and I, sadly, am included in that.
That is my opinion anyway
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Why , give me some example why DaoC were better, you writing in rose colour glasses text, give me some facts what made that game better compare to modern ones.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Yea this is pretty much what made DAoC the best. It's not like the game systems and combat were top notch. They just did a much better job of bringing players together. I can't wait for Camelot Unchained because they're incorporating a lot of those ideas from DAoC to bring that sort of PvP back. GW2 and ESO have tried, but as soon as you have to teleport into an instanced map, you're taking your first step away from DAoC.
Agree, from way topic is posted and way of attacking others for their opinions, just looking for a fight, over something that most likely does not have items you can list in the first place.
Would be a host of "reasons" people liked the pvp. And even the "PVP" is different. You had the Zerg, solo, small group, keep attack and defense. And the huge realm -vs-realm battles, with the realms sometimes teaming up. Each part will and does have it's proponents.
So the social aspect of the community made the PVP better not the game itself?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Let's see...
PvE had you play together and grow up with the realm mates that you'd be fighting with in RvR.
Game lore encouraged you to turn the other two realms into "others" and hate them.
No way to join the other realms and play on their side.
Long leveling made you invested in your realm's RvR.
Your realm succeeding in RvR directly benefited all members of your realm from PvP, to PvE, to crafting.
Darkness Falls, enough said.
Lots of unique classes with unique specs.
Playing against the same enemies on the same servers meant it was possible to make a name for yourself.
Realm points were distributed in a way that encouraged you to capture and hold keeps, not just trade them all day.
Relic system gave a solid meta goal that was hard to reach, but you were always reaching for it.
Tons of siege weapons that encouraged crafters to get involved.
Naval warfare, even basic.
Big enough zones for all kinds of PvP.
The combat engine was once of the best, and still is one of the best, in the genre. Very responsible and strategic, with good sound and animation feedback to let you know what was going on without needing floating numbers.
Engine could handle a LOT of players before starting to lag.
THREE FACTIONS
Most of the modern knock offs don't have the majority of these features, especially the realm pride.
Thanks for pointing out my OP.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Never tried DaoC, but i have tried pretty much every other MMO after wow and the best PVP in my opinion is Asherons Call DarkTide server.
open pvp not even towns are safe, no CC for everybody to use as a crutch only skill matters. and the best part, no invisible bullshit, there isnt a bunch of scrubs running around in stealth trying to get easy kills on some dude mobbed up.
Your argument is specious.
I played DAOC on a freeshard for most of last year, rule set was circa 2003 right around the time SI was to launch.
I had more fun PVPing there than most of the last 8 years. Back were the realm abilities (ESO has nothing like this), the keep takes where small groups of 8-16 could turn the tide of the campaign.
We were routinely knocking off keeps, then once DF opened we ran in and cleared that out, rinse and repeat.
One night our realm decided to take every single keep in the frontiers (old of course) and all of the classic classes where there.
Brutally long crowd control, stealthers that could pop out of no where, tanks that were near indestructible.
Spent time crafting the perfect build, helping my guild and realm mates and in general was able to relive the era I so enjoyed 10 years ago.
No, it's not rose colored glasses, there's never been anything like it, still isn't, and if/when the freeshard reopens (with SI enabled this time) that's where you'll find me, rolling on my Skald and running others to ground (remember speed classes? who has that anymore?)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This quite a silly discussion. Especially when someone uses a term like " rekt". Keep that nonsense in your twitch channels.
Tastes differ. If you didn't like DAoC, then that's that. There's no point trying to prove your opinion right and the opinions of others wrong in this case.
For example: I do not share OP's opinion. I loved the PvP. Feel free to "argument" that. It's useless.
Ill agree that this is indeed a silly discussion.
I will say that DaoC did the best at incorporating a social atmosphere along with adding purpose to PvP. Maybe the reason why so many people felt is was (and still is) the best is because no game has done a better job of getting people to care.
Another person nailed it by saying if you became good enough other players from enemy realms would remember you. You could cause fear in an entire realm and they would share war stories of their failed attempt to trump you. There is no game out that does this besides maybe lineage...
If you think he helped prove your OP you better re-read it again.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I may be totally wrong although i dont think i am, but If DaoC PvP was still the best then nobody would be playing anything else for pvp. They were probably the best years ago, but at this point i believe only nostalgia keeps people saying it is still the best, when it is not the case anymore.
My thoughts.
From my perspective 2 things happened:
1. The graphics and net code are ancient.
2. The game is 13 years old and there is only so many times you can fight the same perpetual war. As they say, "All good things must come to an end". That doesn't mean it wasn't the best PvP experience I ever had. That's like saying that movie XY or Z can't be your favorite movie because you are going to see Avengers 2.
Both are reasons why people have BEGGED for a true sequel to the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think it's more like this; one thing we keep seeing repeated is this whole 'the other realms feared you' mantra. Which is probably true...for an extreme minority of posters. Not coincidentally, that minority are the ones who loved the pvp the best. But if it were 'the best' even on a large scale (because obviously you'll never get everyone to agree on something!), like...say 75% of those who played it, then pvp never would have changed in the first place.
Something drove those changes other than "Developers listened to the tiny minority who didn't like the pvp". Unless that minority was INCREDIBLY loud...so loud as to cover up the voices of 3/4 of the remaining players. I don't consider that very likely, though, so business had to be responding to something. It's like they say -- business responds to what the players want in aggregate almost always.
But since 'best' and 'fun' and all those are highly subjective to begin with, I think discounting it as rose-tinted glasses isn't fair either. I legitimately believe that those who claim it was the best are right, insofar as they see it.
I'll third or fourth the silly discussion but at the same time I'll add in my opinion of why I thought it was the best PVP/RVR experience I've had.
Classes - Each realm had roughly the same type of classes, there were different perks for said class per realm. Example being Scouts/Rangers/Hunters. While in essence the same thing, they could be something very different. I've never felt the rush I felt when I first loaded up that 8 second draw time shot in a BG and ranged down a target with the right arrow damage type and setting up all the variables so I could accomplish my attack. It lost that glamor for me when they changed the archery system. Also you were able to conceal what class you were with certain weapon/armor combos which made RVR an interesting encounter at times (Imagine a group of players all in black mail with hammers and small shields. Or a troll warrior with a hammer and small shield - Think shaman and hit it first, turns out to be a warrior who switches to two handed and gives you an unpleasant surprise. A lot of this play style was also found in both new and old frontiers.
BGs - Were persistent battles, I could go in, kill a few people and leave or I could assault the keep. You could solo, group, stealth hunt, cruise the areas outside the keep and find decent battles. You weren't regulated to a field where people started on opposite sides and fought over objectives no one cared about.
Objectives - The objectives were linked with your RVR/PVP progression system. Participating in or around an objective awarded bonus points towards your objective. Currently in most games playing the objective is not as rewarding(on multiple levels) as just killing the other players. Objectives were tied to the RVR/PVP system in a way valued by players.
These are a few of the things I've enjoyed from DAOC and in some degree WAR - Though I think WAR would have been better if it was more true to the table top version(in some aspects, more armies, more sides - not just empire vs chaos.) I have a hard time finding these traits in current PVP style games.
DAoC at it's height was the best PvP.
The PvP is still fun, but a lot of the things that made the game, as a whole, nearly perfect, have been changed and abandoned. The fact that almost no one works on the game now is enough to keep most away.
But Mythic, and EA era Mythic fucked up DAoC beyond repair.