If they split into two different rule sets, then this game will be dead six months after launch.
You cannot separate the carebears from the PVP'ers in a full crafting game. The carebears will all go to the safe server, the PVP'ers will go to the hardcore server. Both markets will be terrible because the PVP'ers are the consumers of goods in these types of games and the carebears provide those goods.
The Standard servers will have no one to sell to and the Hardcore servers will have no one to buy from.
Also, without full LOSS (not full loot) on PVP death, the game will have the added problem of too many goods stacking up on the market without enough demand. Permanent loss MUST occur for the cycle of life to continue in a crafting-centric game.
I was on board when I first started hearing about this game with high hopes that it might be more like EVE+DAOC, but it's starting to look more like DAOC+WoW.
Too bad really. You'd think that with EVE Online still going strong in it's 11th year, that other games would see the best shining example of how to make a crafting centered game.... and no, SWG is not the best example. SWG is dead, EVE isn't. Obviously, the better example survived.
You give the one example of a PvP-centric game that has succeeded (nevermind the fact that its due to not having any direct competition in all its years based on the type of game it is), and yet there are a handful of games that are MORE successful than Eve that aren't PvP FFA gank-fests.
You also conveniently ignore the countless failures that have come from the FFA model, particularly in direct competition with games that allow different rule-sets. And...of course, let's not forget the most successful MMO in history had different ruleset servers as well.
I guarantee you, this game will more than likely be dead FAR faster with the current setup than it would with separate PvP/PvE servers. That's just common sense, and it's odd anyone would argue it.
Wow, just wow. PVE carebears won't terrorize this project. Whole world should be open for pvp, because it's how the life works. In case of problems with gank-festival just bring your friends and end it. But if you don't have friends or if u have problems to make them in a MMO games you shouldn't play this genere.
If they split into two different rule sets, then this game will be dead six months after launch.
You cannot separate the carebears from the PVP'ers in a full crafting game. The carebears will all go to the safe server, the PVP'ers will go to the hardcore server. Both markets will be terrible because the PVP'ers are the consumers of goods in these types of games and the carebears provide those goods.
The Standard servers will have no one to sell to and the Hardcore servers will have no one to buy from.
Also, without full LOSS (not full loot) on PVP death, the game will have the added problem of too many goods stacking up on the market without enough demand. Permanent loss MUST occur for the cycle of life to continue in a crafting-centric game.
I was on board when I first started hearing about this game with high hopes that it might be more like EVE+DAOC, but it's starting to look more like DAOC+WoW.
Too bad really. You'd think that with EVE Online still going strong in it's 11th year, that other games would see the best shining example of how to make a crafting centered game.... and no, SWG is not the best example. SWG is dead, EVE isn't. Obviously, the better example survived.
Sorry, but I really have to wonder about your understanding of the genre. The most successful sandbox ever was SWG and except for the complete rule changes by SOE it would still be going today. No forced pvp, no full loot. Crafters were always busy, because the game had item decay which should be part of any sandbox game.
I also play Eve and it has it's issues which limit it's player base. It is not the perfect sandbox, but CCP will not fix those issues because that would alienate many of the vets.
Your comments just don't hold any water.
Are you talking about the sandbox MMO that was closed down nearly four years ago after only three expansions, or are you talking about the sandbox MMO that's still running after 11 years with 23 expansions?
Cause I'm trying to figure out why you think I don't understand the genre.
The facts are the facts. The most successful sandbox MMO is EVE Online. I know that SWG fans like to live and deal in "what if's", but the fact is that NGE DID happen, and CCP hasn't NGE'd their player base. I wish it hadn't happened, I really do. I don't want anyone's favorite MMO to die like that. I honestly wish SWG were still around with updated graphics and 20+ expansions.
The hard fact is; it's not around and it wasn't successful.
Back to the topic at hand: Item decay is nowhere near comparable to item loss. Every day in EVE thousands of ships, modules, implants and other assorted items are destroyed completely, and thousands of items are purchased to replace them.
"I got in a fight, I lost and now I have to repair some of my gear" doesn't do nearly as much to fuel a crafting based economy as "I got in a fight, I lost and now I need to replace everything I had on me at the time."
Especially when insured + high resist gear in SWG only decayed 1% per death to begin with. It could literally take weeks of dying to have to replace high level gear.
I get it, people want to craft in complete and total safety, and I'm not gonna ding them for that. I'm not saying that their play style is wrong or bad. What I do want is for the people who want to craft in total safety to go play the vast majority of other MMO's in existence which already offer JUST THAT. Why do people, who want complete safety in their games, show up in sandbox game threads and demand that the game be changed to suit their play style?
Again, not to bash Eve, it has it's following, BUT it has it's own issues. I could get into a long litany of problems where pve and pvp is broken in Eve, but that is not the point. The point is FFA PVP kills games. Again I could tie up this thread with a long list of games that died basically because that was all they offered. Perhaps this game finds a happy medium, who knows, but history says it most probably won't. If item decay kept the crafters in SWG happy, it certainly stands to reason it works.
If they split into two different rule sets, then this game will be dead six months after launch.
You cannot separate the carebears from the PVP'ers in a full crafting game. The carebears will all go to the safe server, the PVP'ers will go to the hardcore server. Both markets will be terrible because the PVP'ers are the consumers of goods in these types of games and the carebears provide those goods.
The Standard servers will have no one to sell to and the Hardcore servers will have no one to buy from.
Also, without full LOSS (not full loot) on PVP death, the game will have the added problem of too many goods stacking up on the market without enough demand. Permanent loss MUST occur for the cycle of life to continue in a crafting-centric game.
I was on board when I first started hearing about this game with high hopes that it might be more like EVE+DAOC, but it's starting to look more like DAOC+WoW.
Too bad really. You'd think that with EVE Online still going strong in it's 11th year, that other games would see the best shining example of how to make a crafting centered game.... and no, SWG is not the best example. SWG is dead, EVE isn't. Obviously, the better example survived.
Sorry, but I really have to wonder about your understanding of the genre. The most successful sandbox ever was SWG and except for the complete rule changes by SOE it would still be going today. No forced pvp, no full loot. Crafters were always busy, because the game had item decay which should be part of any sandbox game.
I also play Eve and it has it's issues which limit it's player base. It is not the perfect sandbox, but CCP will not fix those issues because that would alienate many of the vets.
Your comments just don't hold any water.
Are you talking about the sandbox MMO that was closed down nearly four years ago after only three expansions, or are you talking about the sandbox MMO that's still running after 11 years with 23 expansions?
Cause I'm trying to figure out why you think I don't understand the genre.
The facts are the facts. The most successful sandbox MMO is EVE Online. I know that SWG fans like to live and deal in "what if's", but the fact is that NGE DID happen, and CCP hasn't NGE'd their player base. I wish it hadn't happened, I really do. I don't want anyone's favorite MMO to die like that. I honestly wish SWG were still around with updated graphics and 20+ expansions.
The hard fact is; it's not around and it wasn't successful.
Back to the topic at hand: Item decay is nowhere near comparable to item loss. Every day in EVE thousands of ships, modules, implants and other assorted items are destroyed completely, and thousands of items are purchased to replace them.
"I got in a fight, I lost and now I have to repair some of my gear" doesn't do nearly as much to fuel a crafting based economy as "I got in a fight, I lost and now I need to replace everything I had on me at the time."
Especially when insured + high resist gear in SWG only decayed 1% per death to begin with. It could literally take weeks of dying to have to replace high level gear.
I get it, people want to craft in complete and total safety, and I'm not gonna ding them for that. I'm not saying that their play style is wrong or bad. What I do want is for the people who want to craft in total safety to go play the vast majority of other MMO's in existence which already offer JUST THAT. Why do people, who want complete safety in their games, show up in sandbox game threads and demand that the game be changed to suit their play style?
Again, not to bash Eve, it has it's following, BUT it has it's own issues. I could get into a long litany of problems where pve and pvp is broken in Eve, but that is not the point. The point is FFA PVP kills games. Again I could tie up this thread with a long list of games that died basically because that was all they offered. Perhaps this game finds a happy medium, who knows, but history says it most probably won't. If item decay kept the crafters in SWG happy, it certainly stands to reason it works.
If you have any idea how to play the game then PVP in Eve is purely consensual. Avoiding fights is not the hard part, convincing someone that they can win if they fight you is. If a game has a FFA rule set, you aren't automatically slave to the whim of roaming dickbags. You only are if you fail to learn and use the systems provided to you.
Are you talking about the sandbox MMO that was closed down nearly four years ago after only three expansions, or are you talking about the sandbox MMO that's still running after 11 years with 23 expansions?
The hard fact is; it's not around and it wasn't successful.
Are you suggesting that when SWG closed down it was a sandbox? SWG died as a themepark game after the dev company crapped all over its loyal players.
Fact is simple, SoE / Lucas Arts wanted to emulate WoW with SWG and they failed THAT is one of the big contributing factors to what killed the game, the fact that SWG started out as a sandbox has no relevance what so ever.
Originally posted by cheyane Probably be like Darkfall. Not my type of game. Optional PvP is the only way for me. I might consider Archeage.
It seems many people in this thread cant simply read on the games website to get real answers - just throwing the 1/3 or 2/3 numbers around thinking it matter - what matters is this - is the 2/3 of PvE area going to provide you with fun and content - simple answer is YES - can you go into PvP zones for other content simple answer YES, if you dont like this then simply find another game.
If only 1/3 is safe that means 2/3 are not. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand. I will take Josh Halls word on this not yours.
Each faction own 1/3 of the maps area, both of these are safe from PvP
so 2/3 are safe, read the website!
mmorpg.com said "Josh showed that one third of the map has safe areas for characters"
it seems they misinterpretted what they were shown or something, they did not however say that Josh said it is 1/3 safe
Each of the two main factions has roughly a third of the world marked as owned and protected by their faction. Reserve military members may not attack or be attacked by rival factions while in these protected regions.
Pure PvE players get 2/3 of the map and still moan, i guess there is no pleasing some people
All this arguing and tbh they could have just simply built a flag system like swg had. One of the things that made SWG great was the fact that it catered to many types of gamers. I knew people who had no combat skills, or did combat but were not with any faction, yet simply explored the map. Sounds like this game is not designed for those gamers at all. So in a way it is not a game for SWG players like the developer states.
I know for me some days I would flag up to zerg around base busting, other days I couldn't be bothered and just wanted to explore the vast worlds of SWG. So nope, not a game for me.
All this arguing and tbh they could have just simply built a flag system like swg had. One of the things that made SWG great was the fact that it catered to many types of gamers. I knew people who had no combat skills, or did combat but were not with any faction, yet simply explored the map. Sounds like this game is not designed for those gamers at all. So in a way it is not a game for SWG players like the developer states.
I know for me some days I would flag up to zerg around base busting, other days I couldn't be bothered and just wanted to explore the vast worlds of SWG. So nope, not a game for me.
There IS a flag system, read their website for confirmation on that, but there is ALSO areas where you are auto flagged - 2nd and 3rd paragraphs
So it is the best of both worlds, option and choice! Caters for more types of players.
The game will not be a SWG clone ofcourse there will be differences and I am really glad of that, I am a ex SWG player and this game so far looks like it is for me so in a way it is for SWG players too
I like the idea of having synergy or interdependence between PVPers and PVE/crafters. As long as crafting is difficult to level or skill up, then crafters can become a real asset to the community. It would be even cooler if crafters were able to exploit resources better than just you standard PVP-leveled character - that way PVPers would want to bring crafters into the PVP zone to gather resources to get better gear or help their faction, and thus have an incentive to protect them or act as their bodyguards.
I know people who play Eve who almost never PVP but do so because they enjoy trading, mining, hauling freight, and being part of a corporation. I read the post of one crafter in Darkfall who liked it because he felt like his clan appreciated him and had his back. Anyway, I'm not sure if Repopulation has the right balance between PVP and PVE (though it looks promising) but I think it can be done.
Originally posted by sipu Wow, just wow. PVE carebears won't terrorize this project. Whole world should be open for pvp, because it's how the life works. In case of problems with gank-festival just bring your friends and end it. But if you don't have friends or if u have problems to make them in a MMO games you shouldn't play this genere.
having watched this debate for over a decade on many forums and in several games i have found that FFA pvp'rs always whine the loudest, because time and again games that go FFA pvp are empty wastelands. pvp'rs need you to provide them with the entertainment factor they so much enjoy.
whether you want to pay money in order to provide them with their version of entertainment is an entirely different question.
for some weird reason some developers fear FFA pvp'rs. so they cater to them only to find out too late that this playstyle is by far in the minority when it comes to full blown mmorpg's.
i am not opposed to pvp of any sort. i am opposed to lack of choice for players. SWG had a great system: flag yourself for pvp with a 5min timer on both ends of flagging. this way you can't just go unflagged until you see a pvp'r and then gank them. it also prevents a player from trying to hit a pvp target and then automagically going pve once any kind of opposition arrives.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If nothing else the spectre of non-consensual PvP as it is Perceived by prospective customers is
already an issue for this Game.
If they want the game to do well they would be wise to explain very comprehensively how the PVE player can enjoy their product without having to experience 4th wall frustration due to gankers.
The metrics have to exist for this sort of thing, right? I mean it should be obvious from data how much of the potential audience is oriented toward PvE only gameplay, and how much revenue they stand to miss out on if they alienate those players. I personally play PvP games, but I respect the desires of those who want to do PvE only. Repop devs should do the same.
It begs the question:
Is the PvE in The Repopulation not strong enough to hold players and so they are counting on PvP to be content? I really hope that's not the case.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
All i can think is that the guy must be deluded, there is no way that a forced PVP game is going to appeal to the 'SWG' crowd, it doesn't matter if 30% of the game is PVE friendly, if the other 70% doesn't give you a choice.
Some of the games mechanics look like they could be fun, especially if they manage to deliver on them, but this crazy focus they have on PVP will be the undoing of anything they hope to achieve imo, i just do not think the market is there for that type of gameplay. If they truly want to cater to the 'SWG' vets or to at least draw in the types of people that do like that kind of sandbox gameplay, then they are probably going to have to have PVE servers where the PVP is entirely optional.
Maybe they need to rethink their target demographic, because from where i am sitting, the type of player their going to 'bring in' is probably going to be the PVP ganker types who do more to spoil games than to promote them.
You mention DAoC, but I disagree with analogy. In the initial version of DAoC, the realms were separated. You fought on a battleground that was separate from the rest of the game. You could not go from one faction's area to the other. I might also add that there were co-op servers as well, where you could group with members of the other faction. Later expansions made it possible to raid into some areas of the opposing realm on some servers.
I was a very early tester in DAoC when there were only a few areas available and you had to use slash commands for many of the features. The standard servers are very much like DAoC's system. I can't speak of anything in DAoC after Trials of Atlantis. Having spent a lot of the time in the game through it's first couple expansions though I can give you an accurate comparison of the two at that time.
In DAoC you had three factions, each with their own landmass, which is pretty much exactly how Repop works for the two main factions. It's a large space that you never really have to leave. The third faction in Repop is similar to how guilds were handled on DAoC's PvP servers (Mordred, Andred) except there's more customization to it. Rogue Nations are in essence their own faction with configurable relationships with all other nations.
If you wanted to PvP in DAoC you'd go to the frontiers and it became Team PvP with sieges on preset locations. Again that's how it works in Repop, just without the preset locations. Repop will have both player created cities that can be sieged, and also points of intrigue which will randomly sprout up throughout the world and offer benefits to whoever controls them. So while the actual parts you are fighting over are a little different, it's the same basic mechanic, if you want PvP this is where you go.
Where they differ is that in Repop you can continue on into the opposing factions territory if you wish. You can't attack them though, and if they choose to attack you they will flag themselves (for a minimum of 5 minutes) as being active PvP so that you can fight back against them. Players are fully protected in those areas unless they flip on Active PvP and both sides need to be Active in order to attack one another. The only place where that restriction does not exist is in the middle regions (the PvP areas). Sieges are another difference, it's going to take a lot more to steal a city in Repop than it is to take a keep in DAoC. You have to declare ahead of time, and there are chances to opt out with diplomacy during the siege. This was designed to combat the 4am sieges when your rivals are sleeping.
Where 3/4 of the world was faction oriented in DAoC and you could only explore your own factions (meaning you had 25% of the protected world +25% in the frontiers if you partook), in Repop everyone can explore the whole world, and are fully protected in over a third of it, partially protected in another third. You could play forever and never participate in any PvP, if that's what you want, and you'd be able to kill the high tier bosses and collect high end resources just the same.
@Tiller: There is already a flagging system that works very similar to what SWG did, except that it toggles on your pvp flag when you enter into the contested areas. Active and Reserve military. Both players need to be Active in order to attack one another. The active flag is temporarily turned on when you venture out of your factions territory. In opposing factions territory you are Active, but they still can not attack you without going Active themselves which it will force on for 5 minutes. The PvP area belongs to neither OWON or FPR and as a result it both sides get forced to Active and your always vulnerable to attack by non-friendly nations.
@Phry: Repop is not a forced PvP game. If you are completely phobic of PvP you could still explore 2/3 of it risk free if you had two characters. And as mentioned earlier it's really quite a bit more than that because the protected areas are larger than the pvp area. If you don't like PvP, don't go to the PvP areas. Even in a pure PvE theme park game, there are generally areas that you can't go to because they are owned by a faction hostile to you.
@The PvP vs. PvE Poll Guy a few pages back: It's definitely true that almost all players feel that PvE is important, because even PvP people enjoy PvE. It's the most important thing to get right. However, the vast majority of players (that's the 70% number I threw out) also feel that PvP is important, and that number has risen significantly over the years. The majority of players enjoy PvP to some extent. But the sad reality is that PvP in most MMOs is battlegrounds. Repop was designed to provide Open World PvP which has meaning, without forcing it on players. That's rare in this genre. But you can't have true open world conflict, territory control, etc and allow players complete safe passage. There's nothing to stop a large mass of players from turning off their flags, moving to a spot and then turning them on at once.
All i can think is that the guy must be deluded, there is no way that a forced PVP game is going to appeal to the 'SWG' crowd, it doesn't matter if 30% of the game is PVE friendly, if the other 70% doesn't give you a choice.
Some of the games mechanics look like they could be fun, especially if they manage to deliver on them, but this crazy focus they have on PVP will be the undoing of anything they hope to achieve imo, i just do not think the market is there for that type of gameplay. If they truly want to cater to the 'SWG' vets or to at least draw in the types of people that do like that kind of sandbox gameplay, then they are probably going to have to have PVE servers where the PVP is entirely optional.
Maybe they need to rethink their target demographic, because from where i am sitting, the type of player their going to 'bring in' is probably going to be the PVP ganker types who do more to spoil games than to promote them.
I couldn't have said it any better.
As an SWG vet, I was super excited for this game until I saw that they were sticking with their PVP model. I'm still hopeful they implement a PVE server or a flagging system.
Yet another open-world grief- and gank- fest? Oh boy. I can hardly wait.
2014 has been such a huge disappointment. ESO, WS, H1Z1,...
There are plenty of Wpve, quest, instance, consensual/no pvp borefest mmorpgs already. We don't need another.
Yeah but Repopulation was hyped as an SWG alternative. The moment they said that (and they did) the game would have to live up to the particulars of what individuals felt SWG was. SWG had flagging and never forced you into PvP, so by doing that they have pissed off the PvE crowd already.
PvP games are fun, but they are also one-dimensional. Nothing you do in a OWPvP game trumps the danger of players killing you. Even if you are fighting a boss a player can come in and begin attacking you so it is the primary mechanic of the game.
If someone doesn't want to be your content and wants to play the way they want to, why would anyone begrudge that? I can see encouraging people to enjoy the fun of PvP but not forcing it, especially not when the game already has decay. It's essentially forcing them to not play, which doesn't help the game.
A long time ago I never PvP'd, but I played a game that let me dip my feet in the water a bit at a time. SWG got me started with PvP, it's a shame that Repop doesn't allow other people to have that controlled experience.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
it IS a controlled experience. You can play forever and kill raid bosses do dungeons harvest and craft at the highest levels without EVER pvping. EVER. The huge mass of land that is the PVE area has everything you would want to do as a PVE player. The only thing you're missing out on is pvp in the pvp area. The pvp area is essentially a pve area that allows player housing with walls around them and defense turrets, and everyone in the area is flagged as active military.
it IS a controlled experience. You can play forever and kill raid bosses do dungeons harvest and craft at the highest levels without EVER pvping. EVER. The huge mass of land that is the PVE area has everything you would want to do as a PVE player. The only thing you're missing out on is pvp in the pvp area. The pvp area is essentially a pve area that allows player housing with walls around them and defense turrets, and everyone in the area is flagged as active military.
Making that abundantly and forcefully clear should be a priority right now. I personally want those crafting and entertainer type people playing the game
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Originally posted by kitarad Are you absolutely certain I will not have to go to the PvP area to get resources to craft ?
Positively, absolutely certain.
Two reasons, actually:
1) The Contested (PvP) areas don't have different, unique resources; they just have more. Whatever you find there, you'll find in the Faction (PvE) areas.
2) Specifically for crafters, something that may not be obvious: the crafting system is *huge*. You will need to specialize; if you wanna craft some of the most complex items, chances are you are not gonna craft the components, let alone harvest the raw materials (you could if you wanted to; it's just that it will be way too inefficient).
That in turn means that, should you focus on the "finished goods" part of the production chain, you are gonna be buying components and mats from others.
In other words: if you want to craft, as soon as the economy is up and running you wont ever need to harvest if you don't want to.
So: if want to harvest materials, you'll be able to do so in the Faction area and 100% safe from PvP combat; but if you are a dedicated crafter, you'll probably just craft and buy the components from others.
All i can think is that the guy must be deluded, there is no way that a forced PVP game is going to appeal to the 'SWG' crowd, it doesn't matter if 30% of the game is PVE friendly, if the other 70% doesn't give you a choice.
Some of the games mechanics look like they could be fun, especially if they manage to deliver on them, but this crazy focus they have on PVP will be the undoing of anything they hope to achieve imo, i just do not think the market is there for that type of gameplay. If they truly want to cater to the 'SWG' vets or to at least draw in the types of people that do like that kind of sandbox gameplay, then they are probably going to have to have PVE servers where the PVP is entirely optional.
Maybe they need to rethink their target demographic, because from where i am sitting, the type of player their going to 'bring in' is probably going to be the PVP ganker types who do more to spoil games than to promote them.
I couldn't have said it any better.
As an SWG vet, I was super excited for this game until I saw that they were sticking with their PVP model. I'm still hopeful they implement a PVE server or a flagging system.
maybe read their own website about the game for good details? you both don't seem to understand the game.
It is not forced PvP, 66% of the map is safe from PvP so long as you do not flag yourself, 33% is not safe
The game is not PvP focused.
I do not think they are going to have servers where there is 0 PvP, so its either accept that or move on.
How does this game appeal only to gankers? The gankers will be on hardcore servers where they can loot you - just play on the normal server and if you want just stay away from the 33% of the map which is PvP flagged and you wont EVER be ganked.
Finally there IS a flagging system as I have said in this thread a few times now along side flagging there is also a forced PvP area, avoid it if you wish
Comments
You give the one example of a PvP-centric game that has succeeded (nevermind the fact that its due to not having any direct competition in all its years based on the type of game it is), and yet there are a handful of games that are MORE successful than Eve that aren't PvP FFA gank-fests.
You also conveniently ignore the countless failures that have come from the FFA model, particularly in direct competition with games that allow different rule-sets. And...of course, let's not forget the most successful MMO in history had different ruleset servers as well.
I guarantee you, this game will more than likely be dead FAR faster with the current setup than it would with separate PvP/PvE servers. That's just common sense, and it's odd anyone would argue it.
I am hope this game ll replace EVE but , seems it not going to happen
Just bad baby cry community
Again, not to bash Eve, it has it's following, BUT it has it's own issues. I could get into a long litany of problems where pve and pvp is broken in Eve, but that is not the point. The point is FFA PVP kills games. Again I could tie up this thread with a long list of games that died basically because that was all they offered. Perhaps this game finds a happy medium, who knows, but history says it most probably won't. If item decay kept the crafters in SWG happy, it certainly stands to reason it works.
If you have any idea how to play the game then PVP in Eve is purely consensual. Avoiding fights is not the hard part, convincing someone that they can win if they fight you is. If a game has a FFA rule set, you aren't automatically slave to the whim of roaming dickbags. You only are if you fail to learn and use the systems provided to you.
Are you suggesting that when SWG closed down it was a sandbox? SWG died as a themepark game after the dev company crapped all over its loyal players.
Fact is simple, SoE / Lucas Arts wanted to emulate WoW with SWG and they failed THAT is one of the big contributing factors to what killed the game, the fact that SWG started out as a sandbox has no relevance what so ever.
It seems many people in this thread cant simply read on the games website to get real answers - just throwing the 1/3 or 2/3 numbers around thinking it matter - what matters is this - is the 2/3 of PvE area going to provide you with fun and content - simple answer is YES - can you go into PvP zones for other content simple answer YES, if you dont like this then simply find another game.
Each faction own 1/3 of the maps area, both of these are safe from PvP
so 2/3 are safe, read the website!
mmorpg.com said "Josh showed that one third of the map has safe areas for characters"
it seems they misinterpretted what they were shown or something, they did not however say that Josh said it is 1/3 safe
Each of the two main factions has roughly a third of the world marked as owned and protected by their faction. Reserve military members may not attack or be attacked by rival factions while in these protected regions.
Pure PvE players get 2/3 of the map and still moan, i guess there is no pleasing some people
All this arguing and tbh they could have just simply built a flag system like swg had. One of the things that made SWG great was the fact that it catered to many types of gamers. I knew people who had no combat skills, or did combat but were not with any faction, yet simply explored the map. Sounds like this game is not designed for those gamers at all. So in a way it is not a game for SWG players like the developer states.
I know for me some days I would flag up to zerg around base busting, other days I couldn't be bothered and just wanted to explore the vast worlds of SWG. So nope, not a game for me.
City building is, yes, but not housing.
There IS a flag system, read their website for confirmation on that, but there is ALSO areas where you are auto flagged - 2nd and 3rd paragraphs
https://www.therepopulation.com/index.php/game-features/pvp-overview
So it is the best of both worlds, option and choice! Caters for more types of players.
The game will not be a SWG clone ofcourse there will be differences and I am really glad of that, I am a ex SWG player and this game so far looks like it is for me so in a way it is for SWG players too
Maybe this could be a game for you?
I like the idea of having synergy or interdependence between PVPers and PVE/crafters. As long as crafting is difficult to level or skill up, then crafters can become a real asset to the community. It would be even cooler if crafters were able to exploit resources better than just you standard PVP-leveled character - that way PVPers would want to bring crafters into the PVP zone to gather resources to get better gear or help their faction, and thus have an incentive to protect them or act as their bodyguards.
I know people who play Eve who almost never PVP but do so because they enjoy trading, mining, hauling freight, and being part of a corporation. I read the post of one crafter in Darkfall who liked it because he felt like his clan appreciated him and had his back. Anyway, I'm not sure if Repopulation has the right balance between PVP and PVE (though it looks promising) but I think it can be done.
Spoken like a true ganker...
having watched this debate for over a decade on many forums and in several games i have found that FFA pvp'rs always whine the loudest, because time and again games that go FFA pvp are empty wastelands. pvp'rs need you to provide them with the entertainment factor they so much enjoy.
whether you want to pay money in order to provide them with their version of entertainment is an entirely different question.
for some weird reason some developers fear FFA pvp'rs. so they cater to them only to find out too late that this playstyle is by far in the minority when it comes to full blown mmorpg's.
i am not opposed to pvp of any sort. i am opposed to lack of choice for players. SWG had a great system: flag yourself for pvp with a 5min timer on both ends of flagging. this way you can't just go unflagged until you see a pvp'r and then gank them. it also prevents a player from trying to hit a pvp target and then automagically going pve once any kind of opposition arrives.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
If nothing else the spectre of non-consensual PvP as it is Perceived by prospective customers is
already an issue for this Game.
If they want the game to do well they would be wise to explain very comprehensively how the PVE player can enjoy their product without having to experience 4th wall frustration due to gankers.
The metrics have to exist for this sort of thing, right? I mean it should be obvious from data how much of the potential audience is oriented toward PvE only gameplay, and how much revenue they stand to miss out on if they alienate those players. I personally play PvP games, but I respect the desires of those who want to do PvE only. Repop devs should do the same.
It begs the question:
Is the PvE in The Repopulation not strong enough to hold players and so they are counting on PvP to be content? I really hope that's not the case.
All i can think is that the guy must be deluded, there is no way that a forced PVP game is going to appeal to the 'SWG' crowd, it doesn't matter if 30% of the game is PVE friendly, if the other 70% doesn't give you a choice.
Some of the games mechanics look like they could be fun, especially if they manage to deliver on them, but this crazy focus they have on PVP will be the undoing of anything they hope to achieve imo, i just do not think the market is there for that type of gameplay. If they truly want to cater to the 'SWG' vets or to at least draw in the types of people that do like that kind of sandbox gameplay, then they are probably going to have to have PVE servers where the PVP is entirely optional.
Maybe they need to rethink their target demographic, because from where i am sitting, the type of player their going to 'bring in' is probably going to be the PVP ganker types who do more to spoil games than to promote them.
I was a very early tester in DAoC when there were only a few areas available and you had to use slash commands for many of the features. The standard servers are very much like DAoC's system. I can't speak of anything in DAoC after Trials of Atlantis. Having spent a lot of the time in the game through it's first couple expansions though I can give you an accurate comparison of the two at that time.
In DAoC you had three factions, each with their own landmass, which is pretty much exactly how Repop works for the two main factions. It's a large space that you never really have to leave. The third faction in Repop is similar to how guilds were handled on DAoC's PvP servers (Mordred, Andred) except there's more customization to it. Rogue Nations are in essence their own faction with configurable relationships with all other nations.
If you wanted to PvP in DAoC you'd go to the frontiers and it became Team PvP with sieges on preset locations. Again that's how it works in Repop, just without the preset locations. Repop will have both player created cities that can be sieged, and also points of intrigue which will randomly sprout up throughout the world and offer benefits to whoever controls them. So while the actual parts you are fighting over are a little different, it's the same basic mechanic, if you want PvP this is where you go.
Where they differ is that in Repop you can continue on into the opposing factions territory if you wish. You can't attack them though, and if they choose to attack you they will flag themselves (for a minimum of 5 minutes) as being active PvP so that you can fight back against them. Players are fully protected in those areas unless they flip on Active PvP and both sides need to be Active in order to attack one another. The only place where that restriction does not exist is in the middle regions (the PvP areas). Sieges are another difference, it's going to take a lot more to steal a city in Repop than it is to take a keep in DAoC. You have to declare ahead of time, and there are chances to opt out with diplomacy during the siege. This was designed to combat the 4am sieges when your rivals are sleeping.
Where 3/4 of the world was faction oriented in DAoC and you could only explore your own factions (meaning you had 25% of the protected world +25% in the frontiers if you partook), in Repop everyone can explore the whole world, and are fully protected in over a third of it, partially protected in another third. You could play forever and never participate in any PvP, if that's what you want, and you'd be able to kill the high tier bosses and collect high end resources just the same.
@Tiller: There is already a flagging system that works very similar to what SWG did, except that it toggles on your pvp flag when you enter into the contested areas. Active and Reserve military. Both players need to be Active in order to attack one another. The active flag is temporarily turned on when you venture out of your factions territory. In opposing factions territory you are Active, but they still can not attack you without going Active themselves which it will force on for 5 minutes. The PvP area belongs to neither OWON or FPR and as a result it both sides get forced to Active and your always vulnerable to attack by non-friendly nations.
@Phry: Repop is not a forced PvP game. If you are completely phobic of PvP you could still explore 2/3 of it risk free if you had two characters. And as mentioned earlier it's really quite a bit more than that because the protected areas are larger than the pvp area. If you don't like PvP, don't go to the PvP areas. Even in a pure PvE theme park game, there are generally areas that you can't go to because they are owned by a faction hostile to you.
@The PvP vs. PvE Poll Guy a few pages back: It's definitely true that almost all players feel that PvE is important, because even PvP people enjoy PvE. It's the most important thing to get right. However, the vast majority of players (that's the 70% number I threw out) also feel that PvP is important, and that number has risen significantly over the years. The majority of players enjoy PvP to some extent. But the sad reality is that PvP in most MMOs is battlegrounds. Repop was designed to provide Open World PvP which has meaning, without forcing it on players. That's rare in this genre. But you can't have true open world conflict, territory control, etc and allow players complete safe passage. There's nothing to stop a large mass of players from turning off their flags, moving to a spot and then turning them on at once.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
I couldn't have said it any better.
As an SWG vet, I was super excited for this game until I saw that they were sticking with their PVP model. I'm still hopeful they implement a PVE server or a flagging system.
There are plenty of Wpve, quest, instance, consensual/no pvp borefest mmorpgs already. We don't need another.
Yeah but Repopulation was hyped as an SWG alternative. The moment they said that (and they did) the game would have to live up to the particulars of what individuals felt SWG was. SWG had flagging and never forced you into PvP, so by doing that they have pissed off the PvE crowd already.
PvP games are fun, but they are also one-dimensional. Nothing you do in a OWPvP game trumps the danger of players killing you. Even if you are fighting a boss a player can come in and begin attacking you so it is the primary mechanic of the game.
If someone doesn't want to be your content and wants to play the way they want to, why would anyone begrudge that? I can see encouraging people to enjoy the fun of PvP but not forcing it, especially not when the game already has decay. It's essentially forcing them to not play, which doesn't help the game.
A long time ago I never PvP'd, but I played a game that let me dip my feet in the water a bit at a time. SWG got me started with PvP, it's a shame that Repop doesn't allow other people to have that controlled experience.
@archlyte
it IS a controlled experience. You can play forever and kill raid bosses do dungeons harvest and craft at the highest levels without EVER pvping. EVER. The huge mass of land that is the PVE area has everything you would want to do as a PVE player. The only thing you're missing out on is pvp in the pvp area. The pvp area is essentially a pve area that allows player housing with walls around them and defense turrets, and everyone in the area is flagged as active military.
Making that abundantly and forcefully clear should be a priority right now. I personally want those crafting and entertainer type people playing the game
Positively, absolutely certain.
Two reasons, actually:
1) The Contested (PvP) areas don't have different, unique resources; they just have more. Whatever you find there, you'll find in the Faction (PvE) areas.
2) Specifically for crafters, something that may not be obvious: the crafting system is *huge*. You will need to specialize; if you wanna craft some of the most complex items, chances are you are not gonna craft the components, let alone harvest the raw materials (you could if you wanted to; it's just that it will be way too inefficient).
That in turn means that, should you focus on the "finished goods" part of the production chain, you are gonna be buying components and mats from others.
In other words: if you want to craft, as soon as the economy is up and running you wont ever need to harvest if you don't want to.
So: if want to harvest materials, you'll be able to do so in the Faction area and 100% safe from PvP combat; but if you are a dedicated crafter, you'll probably just craft and buy the components from others.
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"Evening Star": a The Repopulation novel.
maybe read their own website about the game for good details? you both don't seem to understand the game.
It is not forced PvP, 66% of the map is safe from PvP so long as you do not flag yourself, 33% is not safe
The game is not PvP focused.
I do not think they are going to have servers where there is 0 PvP, so its either accept that or move on.
How does this game appeal only to gankers? The gankers will be on hardcore servers where they can loot you - just play on the normal server and if you want just stay away from the 33% of the map which is PvP flagged and you wont EVER be ganked.
Finally there IS a flagging system as I have said in this thread a few times now
along side flagging there is also a forced PvP area, avoid it if you wish