I am a sandbox fan (to me, themeparks can't even be called a "mmo") and the only themepark i played was WoW because i am a fan of the Warcraft series and lore. After completing the story developed by the on-rails experience, i quit,
I don't play themepark mmos because single-player games of today offer far better experience, and even provide cooperative online mode and persistent progression. There is nothing present in a typical themepark mmo that can't be obtained in online single-player games.
I don't play themepark mmos because single-player games of today offer far better experience, and even provide cooperative online mode and persistent progression. There is nothing present in a typical themepark mmo that can't be obtained in online single-player games.
Yes there is. Marvel characters. I play Marvel Heroes (well, it is called a MMO in many websites) because there is NO recent single player online games with marvel characters. (The closest is marvel ultimate alliance which a) i finished, and b) they don't have all the stuff in MH).
Or STO ... there is no star trek single player RPG (in the TNG era) with both ground and starship combat.
Obviously i don't play fantasy MMOs for dungeon runs unless you consider Diablo 3 one (which is close enough in my books, but many here will blow a gasket if it is formally classified as a MMO).
I honestly really loved the early days of EQ2 but it was mostly because of the people I played with that kept me going. I've played a lot of themepark MMOs and many sandbox MMOs too. Neither are always my favorite all the time. I like something that is different at the core gameplay level. So a themepark, being at its core is a linear NPC quest grinder with ability flingging combat is something I'm so done with and it doesn't matter how it is wrapped. Some sandboxes that boil down to spamming to level skills are also stale. If there is an MMO that at it's core is unlike something I've played and is still fun or isn't so linear and predictable, then that's what I want.
So with that... I'm not into MMOs all that much except for PS2 and Landmark
I know Themepark MMOs get bashed here a lot, but are there any Themepark MMO fans here open enough to admit that?
If so, you mind sharing your opinion on the direction Themepark MMOs have come over the last 8 years.
Whats some major changes that need to be made to improve current gen themepark MMOs?
And whats some of the flaws in modern day themepark MMOs?
Are there any suggestions you have for modern day themepark MMOs?
Nothing wrong with a good themepark. And although many people here can't wait for a good sandbox, reality probably is that most people enjoy the ride, and guidance themeparks provide.
IMHO three problems have started happening over the past years.
One is what I call rewarditis. An overkill of achievements, quest rewards, for as little as possible investment. This made quests smaller and smaller, and rewards abundant, and forgettable.
The second is timespan to end level, which has become shorter and shorter. Seeing how most of the story is taking place in the leveling phase, MMOs have gone from 12-volume bestsellers, you like to display in your study, to little novel booklets you read on the train and throw away once you read it. Or does anyone still read quests?
The third is danger. It really seems MMOs have become easier and easier. Probably the smart data analysts looked at the statistics and saw people logging off after they died, so they made it difficult to die. But they forgot that the games became terribly boring in the process.
So the changes that need to be made are simple. Back to making the ride fun again. Away with the reward overload, make quests longer, and real quests, and don't give me a new shirt every 5 minutes. Finally I need to die, at least once in a while.
Originally posted by MMOExposed I know Themepark MMOs get bashed here a lot, but are there any Themepark MMO fans here open enough to admit that?If so, you mind sharing your opinion on the direction Themepark MMOs have come over the last 8 years. Whats some major changes that need to be made to improve current gen themepark MMOs?And whats some of the flaws in modern day themepark MMOs? Are there any suggestions you have for modern day themepark MMOs?
The label "sandbox" is just used to differentiate the game people like from games they don't, regardless whether it is actually a sandbox or not.
My favoured game has more focus on PVP than other games => it's a sandbox! My favoured game has no or less quests than other games => it's a sandbox! My favoured game has x feature that other games do not have => it's a sandbox!
etc.
There is no more meaning in that.
Most themepark bashers do prefer a themepark layout, they just won't call it a themepark, not to say openly admit that.
I love themeparks like SWTOR, Everquest, FFXI, FFXIV ARR, City of X, WoW, AO and I liked Wildstar just not the combat though. I did not like SWG and stayed away from most sandbox games because of PvP.
For me it doesn't matter if the playground is a Themepark, Sandbox or even a hybrid Sandpark.. It comes down to polish and entertainment value.. I have played good Sandboxes, and bad ones.. Same can be said about Themeparks as well.. There are pro's and con's to each category of play and how they are played..
In conclusion what I really look for in any game is, Freedom and variety of paths in character progression.. Gameplay mechanics.. UI layout.. I know those terms are vague but will have to do for now to keep this post short
I know Themepark MMOs get bashed here a lot, but are there any Themepark MMO fans here open enough to admit that?
If so, you mind sharing your opinion on the direction Themepark MMOs have come over the last 8 years.
Whats some major changes that need to be made to improve current gen themepark MMOs?
And whats some of the flaws in modern day themepark MMOs?
Are there any suggestions you have for modern day themepark MMOs?
I'm fine with theme parks, it's the completely *linear* theme parks i can't stand especially if there's just two factions so you effectively get two single player rides, one for each faction and both having one route you're forced down.
I only play them for the scenery nowadays. I force myself as far along the conveyor belt i can stand just to look at the zones like an mmorpg tourist.
I guess actually what it is is the theme park games stopped actually being theme parks and became single rides. In a theme park you have a big open field with a lot of different rides and you choose which rides you want to go on and in what order. What we mostly have now are ex theme parks that turned into a single roller coaster ride for each faction (or each class in SWTOR).
edit: That's not to say the rides aren't sometimes good just that they don't have a "what next" except pvp or raiding whereas what i like to do - when a game lets me - is level up lots of different race/class/craft combos in different ways through different zones.
More variety in endgame. Things like the bounty quests in Old Republic are really nice, going back to lower level planets and actually have some meaningful content there.
If mounts would be more like actual vehicles and not just speed buff with a mount model under your char, there could be pod-racing in Tatoonie too with bets and all.
More themepark rides in general, it's very boring in many themeparks when all the rides at your park are end-game raiding and battlegrounds and then something meaningless. Also I dont like leveling making areas that you out level become meaningless, that's my main problem with steep curve in power in any game where you gain levels.
At least the devs should try to come up with ideas to make that huge map in use at max level too and not just have it as a one off leveling experience and a scenery route to the endgame raiding-wheel, it's basically wasted space at max level, the map looks huge but there's only few places where you can do something meaningful.
More variety in endgame. Things like the bounty quests in Old Republic are really nice, going back to lower level planets and actually have some meaningful content there.
Agreed. And having content that scales in level like the bounty association and the rakghoul resurgence events is something I'd definitely like to see more of on MMO's.
GW2, and before that, City of Heroes did a great job at making things scale to your level. (Or by scaling you down to an appropriate level)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I think the term themepark is about as vague as sandbox is. Someone here said it best by calling them the two ends of a sliding scale and that there was no true sandbox or themepark just points along the line.
I like themeparks but I like them to be like skyrim. All the content is dev created but it's non-linear and takes place in an open world. I'm pretty tired of the yellow brick road quest hub type. Sandbox elements are a plus but I don't want to be dumped into a world and told to make my own content either. the popular term for my style of game is becoming sandpark, which is just another way of saying it's more towards the middle of the scale.
Comments
That is why I think they are well made.
I am a sandbox fan (to me, themeparks can't even be called a "mmo") and the only themepark i played was WoW because i am a fan of the Warcraft series and lore. After completing the story developed by the on-rails experience, i quit,
I don't play themepark mmos because single-player games of today offer far better experience, and even provide cooperative online mode and persistent progression. There is nothing present in a typical themepark mmo that can't be obtained in online single-player games.
Yes there is. Marvel characters. I play Marvel Heroes (well, it is called a MMO in many websites) because there is NO recent single player online games with marvel characters. (The closest is marvel ultimate alliance which a) i finished, and b) they don't have all the stuff in MH).
Or STO ... there is no star trek single player RPG (in the TNG era) with both ground and starship combat.
Obviously i don't play fantasy MMOs for dungeon runs unless you consider Diablo 3 one (which is close enough in my books, but many here will blow a gasket if it is formally classified as a MMO).
I honestly really loved the early days of EQ2 but it was mostly because of the people I played with that kept me going. I've played a lot of themepark MMOs and many sandbox MMOs too. Neither are always my favorite all the time. I like something that is different at the core gameplay level. So a themepark, being at its core is a linear NPC quest grinder with ability flingging combat is something I'm so done with and it doesn't matter how it is wrapped. Some sandboxes that boil down to spamming to level skills are also stale. If there is an MMO that at it's core is unlike something I've played and is still fun or isn't so linear and predictable, then that's what I want.
So with that... I'm not into MMOs all that much except for PS2 and Landmark
Nothing wrong with a good themepark. And although many people here can't wait for a good sandbox, reality probably is that most people enjoy the ride, and guidance themeparks provide.
IMHO three problems have started happening over the past years.
One is what I call rewarditis. An overkill of achievements, quest rewards, for as little as possible investment. This made quests smaller and smaller, and rewards abundant, and forgettable.
The second is timespan to end level, which has become shorter and shorter. Seeing how most of the story is taking place in the leveling phase, MMOs have gone from 12-volume bestsellers, you like to display in your study, to little novel booklets you read on the train and throw away once you read it. Or does anyone still read quests?
The third is danger. It really seems MMOs have become easier and easier. Probably the smart data analysts looked at the statistics and saw people logging off after they died, so they made it difficult to die. But they forgot that the games became terribly boring in the process.
So the changes that need to be made are simple. Back to making the ride fun again. Away with the reward overload, make quests longer, and real quests, and don't give me a new shirt every 5 minutes. Finally I need to die, at least once in a while.
The label "sandbox" is just used to differentiate the game people like from games they don't, regardless whether it is actually a sandbox or not.
My favoured game has more focus on PVP than other games => it's a sandbox!
My favoured game has no or less quests than other games => it's a sandbox!
My favoured game has x feature that other games do not have => it's a sandbox!
etc.
There is no more meaning in that.
Most themepark bashers do prefer a themepark layout, they just won't call it a themepark, not to say openly admit that.
For me it doesn't matter if the playground is a Themepark, Sandbox or even a hybrid Sandpark.. It comes down to polish and entertainment value.. I have played good Sandboxes, and bad ones.. Same can be said about Themeparks as well.. There are pro's and con's to each category of play and how they are played..
In conclusion what I really look for in any game is, Freedom and variety of paths in character progression.. Gameplay mechanics.. UI layout.. I know those terms are vague but will have to do for now to keep this post short
I'm fine with theme parks, it's the completely *linear* theme parks i can't stand especially if there's just two factions so you effectively get two single player rides, one for each faction and both having one route you're forced down.
I only play them for the scenery nowadays. I force myself as far along the conveyor belt i can stand just to look at the zones like an mmorpg tourist.
I guess actually what it is is the theme park games stopped actually being theme parks and became single rides. In a theme park you have a big open field with a lot of different rides and you choose which rides you want to go on and in what order. What we mostly have now are ex theme parks that turned into a single roller coaster ride for each faction (or each class in SWTOR).
edit: That's not to say the rides aren't sometimes good just that they don't have a "what next" except pvp or raiding whereas what i like to do - when a game lets me - is level up lots of different race/class/craft combos in different ways through different zones.
More variety in endgame. Things like the bounty quests in Old Republic are really nice, going back to lower level planets and actually have some meaningful content there.
If mounts would be more like actual vehicles and not just speed buff with a mount model under your char, there could be pod-racing in Tatoonie too with bets and all.
More themepark rides in general, it's very boring in many themeparks when all the rides at your park are end-game raiding and battlegrounds and then something meaningless. Also I dont like leveling making areas that you out level become meaningless, that's my main problem with steep curve in power in any game where you gain levels.
At least the devs should try to come up with ideas to make that huge map in use at max level too and not just have it as a one off leveling experience and a scenery route to the endgame raiding-wheel, it's basically wasted space at max level, the map looks huge but there's only few places where you can do something meaningful.
Agreed. And having content that scales in level like the bounty association and the rakghoul resurgence events is something I'd definitely like to see more of on MMO's.
GW2, and before that, City of Heroes did a great job at making things scale to your level. (Or by scaling you down to an appropriate level)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I just don't understand why most themepark design have to be liner quests hub.
Then most of them don't offer anything other than just quests and raid ,
I yet to see MMORolePlayingGgame which good at role playing part.
Things feel like i just read a book , not role playing game
If there are thing that make themepark better then it must be mini games or casual contents .
I mean , the park need more games to be good park .
You can't just ride a train then have no things else to play.
Themepark need more games , not just the epic treadmill train but more games to play .
If your themepark don't have any things to play aside ride the train then don't make the park in first place .
Just make some single player "book" .
I think the term themepark is about as vague as sandbox is. Someone here said it best by calling them the two ends of a sliding scale and that there was no true sandbox or themepark just points along the line.
I like themeparks but I like them to be like skyrim. All the content is dev created but it's non-linear and takes place in an open world. I'm pretty tired of the yellow brick road quest hub type. Sandbox elements are a plus but I don't want to be dumped into a world and told to make my own content either. the popular term for my style of game is becoming sandpark, which is just another way of saying it's more towards the middle of the scale.