Well if Angry Joe thinks it isn't good, then we should all just go home.
My video review would have given it 9/10. Opinions opinions.
Seeing as you are a PC player and there isn't a version for you to play, then I guess it's all irrelevant?
You would be surprised how much of what he says is pretty much the general concensis. I was shocked he even got mad at it, he hyped that game quite a bit, has one of the biggest clans and talked about (more like raved) it constantly up through beta. If anything i thought the fanboy/apaulagist would shine through and he would ignore the issues and give it a great score.
the meta is 77 right now and only one place gave it a perfect score (PS magazine AU) which im not surprised by because of how much Sony wanted this to be first and foremost to be associated with PS.
Originally posted by Datastar +1 I couldnt agree more, why limit yourself with a console ew.....
Why limit yourself with only a PC ew....?
Not a big fan of consoles but i do agree, consoles may not be as powerful or as flexible as a PC in terms of gaming, and i don't see them replacing a PC anytime soon, but i can totally see them being a supplement to the whole gaming experience, probably why the really hard core gamers have a PC and at least one of the current 'next gen' consoles, and maybe both of the older generation consoles too
Originally posted by ionxeel Poor PC peasants are just looking for an excuse to not feel bad because they can't play.
Don't appreciate being called a peasant because I owe a PC and I have to say I'm thankful they not made it for the PC as most of the console game ported to PC are poor and ripping us off with rubbish quality and they are definitely overpriced.
From what I've seen of this game thus far is it's just another grind fest shooter with fancy bells and whistles your welcome to it and will pay top dollar for that privilege too. In the UK you have to pay at least £40 for both XBOX and PS4 versions whilst if it was a PC version I'd pay £25 so I'm happy to remain a PC only gamer.
As for you calling us Peasants, I would of said we are shrewd as you buy two console games and for the same price I get three...So I'd be interested to see what you might call that!!!
The reason the console market is pouring our poor expensive games is because consumers buy this crap and pay over the odds for games on consoles. In my opinion these companies need to be looked at by fair commission standards how can this be justified, but that's another story for another day.
PC gaming is about as dead as Elvis is (He isn't dead, he just went home )
Seriously though, don't believe the hype. Yes, pre-built PC computers are slowing down. The average USER doesn't really need a computer. For the internet and email needs, a tablet or phone is just fine. Computers still have a solid market for PC gamers. We have our computers custom built or we custom build them ourselves. PC gaming isn't going anywhere. If it was dying, developers wouldn't keep trying to push out the next great MMO.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Pretty sure we all got one like 5+ years ago, hell we get reminders almost every day.
While I know your post is sarcasm, while I was looking up information about Destiny I found an interesting article that questioned if it was smart that Destiny only released on console.
Because in the last decade PC gaming has actually accounted for more than 50% of video game sales world wide. Wish I could find the article, but basically PC part sales have increased (higher population of people are building their own PCs), and PC video game digital sales have increased significantly putting it at the top platform that sells the most video games world wide.
Would be awesome to find that article again.
Most of us don't need an article to believe you. The rest will ignore facts if they get in the way of their fandom.
PC game sales for things such as farmville and steam account for the increase....its fact, on the ohter hand, that multiplatform AAA blockbusters, especially shooters, outsell PC by crazy amounts. BF3 sold 14 million on consoles, 2 million on PC. The latest CoD entry sold 22 million on consoles, 750k on PC. From Crysis, Defiance, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, etc etc...all console dominance. There really is no question about it.
The comparison you are making is between physical copies. Yes Anything outsells PC because generally speaking PC users prefer these days for a digital copy because it is more convenient ...lower prices ...the game goes on sale after few weeks or months after release and so on...
Skyrim For instance has sold more then 20 million copies being 8 million on Xbox 360, 5,6million on PS 3 and 3,51 million on pc BUT this are only physical copies if you add up that is only accounting around 17 million the rest where sold on digital and most of them where sold on pc if not all.
Potentialy Skyrim may have outsold PS3 if we add Digital sales.
The same can be said for Borderlands 2
BF 3 sold more then 16 million physical copies but then there is the small matter of digital sales
In the overall PC gaming in the last 3-4 years had a major boom ...
To me right now there is a before Skyrim and after Skyrim ..before skyrim houses like Rockstar had completely pulled out from making games for PC then comes this game that sells million of copies on PC and suddenly Rockstar starts hiring people to bring some of their games into PC
Pretty sure we all got one like 5+ years ago, hell we get reminders almost every day.
While I know your post is sarcasm, while I was looking up information about Destiny I found an interesting article that questioned if it was smart that Destiny only released on console.
Because in the last decade PC gaming has actually accounted for more than 50% of video game sales world wide. Wish I could find the article, but basically PC part sales have increased (higher population of people are building their own PCs), and PC video game digital sales have increased significantly putting it at the top platform that sells the most video games world wide.
Would be awesome to find that article again.
Most of us don't need an article to believe you. The rest will ignore facts if they get in the way of their fandom.
PC game sales for things such as farmville and steam account for the increase....its fact, on the ohter hand, that multiplatform AAA blockbusters, especially shooters, outsell PC by crazy amounts. BF3 sold 14 million on consoles, 2 million on PC. The latest CoD entry sold 22 million on consoles, 750k on PC. From Crysis, Defiance, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, etc etc...all console dominance. There really is no question about it.
The comparison you are making is between physical copies. Yes Anything outsells PC because generally speaking PC users prefer these days for a digital copy because it is more convenient ...lower prices ...the game goes on sale after few weeks or months after release and so on...
Skyrim For instance has sold more then 20 million copies being 8 million on Xbox 360, 5,6million on PS 3 and 3,51 million on pc BUT this are only physical copies if you add up that is only accounting around 17 million the rest where sold on digital and most of them where sold on pc if not all.
Potentialy Skyrim may have outsold PS3 if we add Digital sales.
The same can be said for Borderlands 2
BF 3 sold more then 16 million physical copies but then there is the small matter of digital sales
In the overall PC gaming in the last 3-4 years had a major boom ...
To me right now there is a before Skyrim and after Skyrim ..before skyrim houses like Rockstar had completely pulled out from making games for PC then comes this game that sells million of copies on PC and suddenly Rockstar starts hiring people to bring some of their games into PC
First, lets ignore the fact that the sales numbers I gave include digital sales...
Lets say that wasn't the case, are you honestly trying to imply that the difference between BF3 selling 14 million on consoles, and 2 million on PC, is digital sales? Digital is no doubt a factor....but if that is what you are hanging onto to try to imply that PC is still relavent (compared to consoles) in the shooter sphear, I guess no matter what evidence is brought to you, it wont change your mind.
Lets look at BF4 then, but only on PS4 and Xbox one, leaving out PS3 and 360. The "next gen" consoles are tailored to digital sales, in fact digital sales on the next gex consoles have been outweighing box sales since launch.
BF4 sold 3.51 million on PS4/Xbone, 1 million on PC....
And regarding the "PC boom" you guys keep mentioning....why the hell are none of you also mentioning that the reason for said boom is games like farmville and steam apps? You guys keep throewing it around in the context of blockbuster shooters as if PC shooters (or multiplatform games in general) have seen this big increase in PC in recent years. Its actually the opposite, AAA blockbuster multiplatform games have been decreasing in the last 5 years on PC.
Pretty sure we all got one like 5+ years ago, hell we get reminders almost every day.
While I know your post is sarcasm, while I was looking up information about Destiny I found an interesting article that questioned if it was smart that Destiny only released on console.
Because in the last decade PC gaming has actually accounted for more than 50% of video game sales world wide. Wish I could find the article, but basically PC part sales have increased (higher population of people are building their own PCs), and PC video game digital sales have increased significantly putting it at the top platform that sells the most video games world wide.
Would be awesome to find that article again.
Most of us don't need an article to believe you. The rest will ignore facts if they get in the way of their fandom.
PC game sales for things such as farmville and steam account for the increase....its fact, on the ohter hand, that multiplatform AAA blockbusters, especially shooters, outsell PC by crazy amounts. BF3 sold 14 million on consoles, 2 million on PC. The latest CoD entry sold 22 million on consoles, 750k on PC. From Crysis, Defiance, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, etc etc...all console dominance. There really is no question about it.
The comparison you are making is between physical copies. Yes Anything outsells PC because generally speaking PC users prefer these days for a digital copy because it is more convenient ...lower prices ...the game goes on sale after few weeks or months after release and so on...
Skyrim For instance has sold more then 20 million copies being 8 million on Xbox 360, 5,6million on PS 3 and 3,51 million on pc BUT this are only physical copies if you add up that is only accounting around 17 million the rest where sold on digital and most of them where sold on pc if not all.
Potentialy Skyrim may have outsold PS3 if we add Digital sales.
The same can be said for Borderlands 2
BF 3 sold more then 16 million physical copies but then there is the small matter of digital sales
In the overall PC gaming in the last 3-4 years had a major boom ...
To me right now there is a before Skyrim and after Skyrim ..before skyrim houses like Rockstar had completely pulled out from making games for PC then comes this game that sells million of copies on PC and suddenly Rockstar starts hiring people to bring some of their games into PC
First, lets ignore the fact that the sales numbers I gave include digital sales...
Lets say that wasn't the case, are you honestly trying to imply that the difference between BF3 selling 14 million on consoles, and 2 million on PC, is digital sales? Digital is no doubt a factor....but if that is what you are hanging onto to try to imply that PC is still relavent (compared to consoles) in the shooter sphear, I guess no matter what evidence is brought to you, it wont change your mind.
Lets look at BF4 then, but only on PS4 and Xbox one, leaving out PS3 and 360. The "next gen" consoles are tailored to digital sales, in fact digital sales on the next gex consoles have been outweighing box sales since launch.
BF4 sold 3.51 million on PS4/Xbone, 1 million on PC....
And regarding the "PC boom" you guys keep mentioning....why the hell are none of you also mentioning that the reason for said boom is games like farmville and steam apps? You guys keep throewing it around in the context of blockbuster shooters as if PC shooters (or multiplatform games in general) have seen this big increase in PC in recent years. Its actually the opposite, AAA blockbuster multiplatform games have been decreasing in the last 5 years on PC.
Then your numbers are wrong they do not include digital sales because Steam NEVER releases the numbers they sell for any given name ...
The only game we can speculate is Skyrim and only because the devs Bethesda stated the game had sold more then 20 million copies and sites like VGAChartz only account for physical copies where is there 17.25 million copies sold the rest was on digital which means the game sold ATLEAST 3 million copies on digital on top of the 3.51 million physical copies the digital games sold of Skyrim are more then likely way more then the physical copies sold for Skyrim but as always since Steam does not release official numbers we can only make an educated guess.
Also you are are bunching PS and XBOX against PC and i am talking about PC against PS or PC against Xbox you can honestly expect a system to outsell 2 other major platforms that is completely insane ....
And if your numbers included digital then they are wrong ...
And of Pc was not selling as you are stating do you honestly believe that companies like Rockstar would be hiring to bring GTA V and possibly Red Dead Redemption to pc ..and just next month we will be getting Final Fantasy XIII ...and so on ...why bother bringing games NOW for pc if they are not selling ...
Pretty sure we all got one like 5+ years ago, hell we get reminders almost every day.
While I know your post is sarcasm, while I was looking up information about Destiny I found an interesting article that questioned if it was smart that Destiny only released on console.
Because in the last decade PC gaming has actually accounted for more than 50% of video game sales world wide. Wish I could find the article, but basically PC part sales have increased (higher population of people are building their own PCs), and PC video game digital sales have increased significantly putting it at the top platform that sells the most video games world wide.
Would be awesome to find that article again.
Most of us don't need an article to believe you. The rest will ignore facts if they get in the way of their fandom.
PC game sales for things such as farmville and steam account for the increase....its fact, on the ohter hand, that multiplatform AAA blockbusters, especially shooters, outsell PC by crazy amounts. BF3 sold 14 million on consoles, 2 million on PC. The latest CoD entry sold 22 million on consoles, 750k on PC. From Crysis, Defiance, Skyrim, Borderlands 2, etc etc...all console dominance. There really is no question about it.
The comparison you are making is between physical copies. Yes Anything outsells PC because generally speaking PC users prefer these days for a digital copy because it is more convenient ...lower prices ...the game goes on sale after few weeks or months after release and so on...
Skyrim For instance has sold more then 20 million copies being 8 million on Xbox 360, 5,6million on PS 3 and 3,51 million on pc BUT this are only physical copies if you add up that is only accounting around 17 million the rest where sold on digital and most of them where sold on pc if not all.
Potentialy Skyrim may have outsold PS3 if we add Digital sales.
The same can be said for Borderlands 2
BF 3 sold more then 16 million physical copies but then there is the small matter of digital sales
In the overall PC gaming in the last 3-4 years had a major boom ...
To me right now there is a before Skyrim and after Skyrim ..before skyrim houses like Rockstar had completely pulled out from making games for PC then comes this game that sells million of copies on PC and suddenly Rockstar starts hiring people to bring some of their games into PC
First, lets ignore the fact that the sales numbers I gave include digital sales...
Lets say that wasn't the case, are you honestly trying to imply that the difference between BF3 selling 14 million on consoles, and 2 million on PC, is digital sales? Digital is no doubt a factor....but if that is what you are hanging onto to try to imply that PC is still relavent (compared to consoles) in the shooter sphear, I guess no matter what evidence is brought to you, it wont change your mind.
Lets look at BF4 then, but only on PS4 and Xbox one, leaving out PS3 and 360. The "next gen" consoles are tailored to digital sales, in fact digital sales on the next gex consoles have been outweighing box sales since launch.
BF4 sold 3.51 million on PS4/Xbone, 1 million on PC....
And regarding the "PC boom" you guys keep mentioning....why the hell are none of you also mentioning that the reason for said boom is games like farmville and steam apps? You guys keep throewing it around in the context of blockbuster shooters as if PC shooters (or multiplatform games in general) have seen this big increase in PC in recent years. Its actually the opposite, AAA blockbuster multiplatform games have been decreasing in the last 5 years on PC.
Then your numbers are wrong they do not include digital sales because Steam NEVER releases the numbers they sell for any given name ...
The only game we can speculate is Skyrim and only because the devs Bethesda stated the game had sold more then 20 million copies and sites like VGAChartz only account for physical copies where is there 17.25 million copies sold the rest was on digital which means the game sold ATLEAST 3 million copies on digital on top of the 3.51 million physical copies the digital games sold of Skyrim are more then likely way more then the physical copies sold for Skyrim but as always since Steam does not release official numbers we can only make an educated guess.
Also you are are bunching PS and XBOX against PC and i am talking about PC against PS or PC against Xbox you can honestly expect a system to outsell 2 other major platforms that is completely insane ....
And if your numbers included digital then they are wrong ...
And of Pc was not selling as you are stating do you honestly believe that companies like Rockstar would be hiring to bring GTA V and possibly Red Dead Redemption to pc ..and just next month we will be getting Final Fantasy XIII ...and so on ...why bother bringing games NOW for pc if they are not selling ...
I could have sworn this was about there being no PC version, I am sorry for comparing PC sales to consoles, instead of each console seperatly one buy one...(even when doing that, every console outsold PC individually for every AAA multiplatform blockbuster, except for the WII U).
/sigh
And I never said PC games "don't sell"....I said they "don't sell, compared to consoles"......do you really think GTA V would be coming to PC if Rockstar wasn't already in the process of porting it to PS4 and Xbox one?
All in all, its perfectly understandable as to why bungie would rather of spent the esources doing things such as making sure Destiny ran at 1080p on xbone, instead of spending resources on a PC port that only a small minority of the total playerbase would ever buy.
Anyway back to topic the game will not come anytime soon for pc because as it is this game is crap.
The game would at most sell 200-300k copies WITH digital copies ...
What is going to happen is like Angry Joe said the dlc will be pouring out for this game so the master races of consoles will pay 60 dollars for the game plus a bunch of 19.99 and 29.99 for the next year or so in dlc
and if at all the pc version will come on 2016 game and ALL those dlc for 38 dollars.
Until then we PC users will be playing other games like Archeage or WOW or Diablo III (that ONLY sold around 12 million copies on pc) and a hoping 2.74m on ALL the 4 consoles
and we will be playing the games cheaper and sometimes WAY more cheaper then the consoles.
Anyway back to topic the game will not come anytime soon for pc because as it is this game is crap.
The game would at most sell 200-300k copies WITH digital copies ...
What is going to happen is like Angry Joe said the dlc will be pouring out for this game so the master races of consoles will pay 60 dollars for the game plus a bunch of 19.99 and 29.99 for the next year or so in dlc
and if at all the pc version will come on 2016 game and ALL those dlc for 38 dollars.
Until then we PC users will be playing other games like Archeage or WOW or Diablo III (that ONLY sold around 12 million copies on pc) and a hoping 2.74m on ALL the 4 consoles
and we will be playing the games cheaper and sometimes WAY more cheaper then the consoles.
If Diablo 3 sold more on consoles a year after its PC release, that would have essentially been the nail in the coffin for AAA PC RPGs lol.
A good game is a good game... who gives a fuck what you play it on.
I do, I cant stand the controller on most games. I tried so many times to get into console gaming because of some games I badly wanted to play, but the fucking controller ruins it for me. It just sucks out the joy.
What's this talk about "Chronusmax" though? It's somekind of magic device that allows me to play with KB+mouse on any console game? No input lag etc? Does it work 100% on all games or just some? I might try consoles again with this kind of magic artifact if it works.
Comments
You would be surprised how much of what he says is pretty much the general concensis. I was shocked he even got mad at it, he hyped that game quite a bit, has one of the biggest clans and talked about (more like raved) it constantly up through beta. If anything i thought the fanboy/apaulagist would shine through and he would ignore the issues and give it a great score.
the meta is 77 right now and only one place gave it a perfect score (PS magazine AU) which im not surprised by because of how much Sony wanted this to be first and foremost to be associated with PS.
Not a big fan of consoles but i do agree, consoles may not be as powerful or as flexible as a PC in terms of gaming, and i don't see them replacing a PC anytime soon, but i can totally see them being a supplement to the whole gaming experience, probably why the really hard core gamers have a PC and at least one of the current 'next gen' consoles, and maybe both of the older generation consoles too
Don't appreciate being called a peasant because I owe a PC and I have to say I'm thankful they not made it for the PC as most of the console game ported to PC are poor and ripping us off with rubbish quality and they are definitely overpriced.
From what I've seen of this game thus far is it's just another grind fest shooter with fancy bells and whistles your welcome to it and will pay top dollar for that privilege too. In the UK you have to pay at least £40 for both XBOX and PS4 versions whilst if it was a PC version I'd pay £25 so I'm happy to remain a PC only gamer.
As for you calling us Peasants, I would of said we are shrewd as you buy two console games and for the same price I get three...So I'd be interested to see what you might call that!!!
The reason the console market is pouring our poor expensive games is because consumers buy this crap and pay over the odds for games on consoles. In my opinion these companies need to be looked at by fair commission standards how can this be justified, but that's another story for another day.
I hope you enjoy playing your over priced game!
Asbo
PC gaming is about as dead as Elvis is (He isn't dead, he just went home
)
Seriously though, don't believe the hype. Yes, pre-built PC computers are slowing down. The average USER doesn't really need a computer. For the internet and email needs, a tablet or phone is just fine. Computers still have a solid market for PC gamers. We have our computers custom built or we custom build them ourselves. PC gaming isn't going anywhere. If it was dying, developers wouldn't keep trying to push out the next great MMO.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
The comparison you are making is between physical copies. Yes Anything outsells PC because generally speaking PC users prefer these days for a digital copy because it is more convenient ...lower prices ...the game goes on sale after few weeks or months after release and so on...
Skyrim For instance has sold more then 20 million copies being 8 million on Xbox 360, 5,6million on PS 3 and 3,51 million on pc BUT this are only physical copies if you add up that is only accounting around 17 million the rest where sold on digital and most of them where sold on pc if not all.
Potentialy Skyrim may have outsold PS3 if we add Digital sales.
The same can be said for Borderlands 2
BF 3 sold more then 16 million physical copies but then there is the small matter of digital sales
In the overall PC gaming in the last 3-4 years had a major boom ...
To me right now there is a before Skyrim and after Skyrim ..before skyrim houses like Rockstar had completely pulled out from making games for PC then comes this game that sells million of copies on PC and suddenly Rockstar starts hiring people to bring some of their games into PC
First, lets ignore the fact that the sales numbers I gave include digital sales...
Lets say that wasn't the case, are you honestly trying to imply that the difference between BF3 selling 14 million on consoles, and 2 million on PC, is digital sales? Digital is no doubt a factor....but if that is what you are hanging onto to try to imply that PC is still relavent (compared to consoles) in the shooter sphear, I guess no matter what evidence is brought to you, it wont change your mind.
Lets look at BF4 then, but only on PS4 and Xbox one, leaving out PS3 and 360. The "next gen" consoles are tailored to digital sales, in fact digital sales on the next gex consoles have been outweighing box sales since launch.
BF4 sold 3.51 million on PS4/Xbone, 1 million on PC....
And regarding the "PC boom" you guys keep mentioning....why the hell are none of you also mentioning that the reason for said boom is games like farmville and steam apps? You guys keep throewing it around in the context of blockbuster shooters as if PC shooters (or multiplatform games in general) have seen this big increase in PC in recent years. Its actually the opposite, AAA blockbuster multiplatform games have been decreasing in the last 5 years on PC.
Then your numbers are wrong they do not include digital sales because Steam NEVER releases the numbers they sell for any given name ...
The only game we can speculate is Skyrim and only because the devs Bethesda stated the game had sold more then 20 million copies and sites like VGAChartz only account for physical copies where is there 17.25 million copies sold the rest was on digital which means the game sold ATLEAST 3 million copies on digital on top of the 3.51 million physical copies the digital games sold of Skyrim are more then likely way more then the physical copies sold for Skyrim but as always since Steam does not release official numbers we can only make an educated guess.
Also you are are bunching PS and XBOX against PC and i am talking about PC against PS or PC against Xbox you can honestly expect a system to outsell 2 other major platforms that is completely insane ....
And if your numbers included digital then they are wrong ...
And of Pc was not selling as you are stating do you honestly believe that companies like Rockstar would be hiring to bring GTA V and possibly Red Dead Redemption to pc ..and just next month we will be getting Final Fantasy XIII ...and so on ...why bother bringing games NOW for pc if they are not selling ...
I could have sworn this was about there being no PC version, I am sorry for comparing PC sales to consoles, instead of each console seperatly one buy one...(even when doing that, every console outsold PC individually for every AAA multiplatform blockbuster, except for the WII U).
/sigh
And I never said PC games "don't sell"....I said they "don't sell, compared to consoles"......do you really think GTA V would be coming to PC if Rockstar wasn't already in the process of porting it to PS4 and Xbox one?
All in all, its perfectly understandable as to why bungie would rather of spent the esources doing things such as making sure Destiny ran at 1080p on xbone, instead of spending resources on a PC port that only a small minority of the total playerbase would ever buy.
Anyway back to topic the game will not come anytime soon for pc because as it is this game is crap.
The game would at most sell 200-300k copies WITH digital copies ...
What is going to happen is like Angry Joe said the dlc will be pouring out for this game so the master races of consoles will pay 60 dollars for the game plus a bunch of 19.99 and 29.99 for the next year or so in dlc
and if at all the pc version will come on 2016 game and ALL those dlc for 38 dollars.
Until then we PC users will be playing other games like Archeage or WOW or Diablo III (that ONLY sold around 12 million copies on pc) and a hoping 2.74m on ALL the 4 consoles
and we will be playing the games cheaper and sometimes WAY more cheaper then the consoles.
If Diablo 3 sold more on consoles a year after its PC release, that would have essentially been the nail in the coffin for AAA PC RPGs lol.
Oh My..... what have we here?
Boiling down to a stupid Console vs PC thread again
PC's will just have to be patient as Destiny will be available next spring.
How much would you like to bet? That the PC release version will include a couple of those hopefully not overpriced DLC's
A good game is a good game... who gives a fuck what you play it on.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Amen
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
I do, I cant stand the controller on most games. I tried so many times to get into console gaming because of some games I badly wanted to play, but the fucking controller ruins it for me. It just sucks out the joy.
What's this talk about "Chronusmax" though? It's somekind of magic device that allows me to play with KB+mouse on any console game? No input lag etc? Does it work 100% on all games or just some? I might try consoles again with this kind of magic artifact if it works.