Returning to Wow

Hariken · September 2014

I finally after 6 years had to check it out again. I love the changes i found so far. I have a lvl 70 hunter and forgot how fun the class is with all my pets that i collected over time. But the one thing that got me was just how much fun the dang game is. I just logged in to the brewfest going on and its a blast. But the one thing that i notice right off is how smooth the gameplay is. I have played many of the newer games and they are now where as smooth as Wow. I have a pretty beefy pc so it just must be the devs in new games just don't put the time in to achieve this. I know is seems cool to hate on this game but Blizzard just got it right. This is just my opinion but if i have to pay monthly for an mmo,this is the one for me. I have tried all the others and just quit because they just are missing something for me and they just feel clunky to play. I guess i just like older games and what they do. Wow has something for everyone and i think thats whats missing in the newer games. And why its still on top. This is just my opinion on this.

flizzer · September 2014

I dont like WoW so I cant agree it is a fun game. I do, however, believe it is a smooth game that plays well even on a toaster. If any game deserves a sub it would be this game. Most newer games are riddled with bugs and play is often choppy. Maybe all these other developers need to borrow the Blizzard guys to help them iron out the bugs in their games. Have fun.

Amjoco · September 2014

OP, I either want your discussion title tattooed somewhere on me, or put on my gravestone. I have quit so many times after Cataclysm and always seem to find my way back. It is still one of the best games for the subscription price, and there is oodles and oodles of content, and socially it is still one of the leaders imho.

Brewfest just started, so I'm off to play a bit now.

OhhPaigey · September 2014

It is a really fun game, I've been playing since late 2010, it's probably my most played game ever, and it's definitely up there for the longest time played. New games are just about hype and selling B2P + Sub then going F2P. This game is by far the most complete MMO still, and it's imo the best out.

jdizzle2k13 · September 2014

WoW is a pretty solid game. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to maintain the lead in subs for sub based MMOs.

It's still the game I've logged the most time in for any MMO with like over 150+ days played (geez that's a lot lol).

But Guild Wars 2 has captured my heart with the large scale world vs world pvp and hybrid action/tab target combat and I find it hard to go back to WoW.

Maybe I'll get back into it more when WoD drops. We'll see.

Bladestrom · September 2014

Hehe I stopped years ago at 400+ days on my main, finally settled GW2 on well, getting to understand the dynamics of wvw done it for me, plus fractals for my instance fix.

Chrisbox · September 2014

I have the same character since vanilla, and I've been raiding almost every expansion since BC. However there is no doubt i'm retiring this game after playing through MoP. The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

I guess this is a perfect time for you to come back OP because they're dropping an expansion soon, but trust me when I say blizzard is not the company they used to be.

OhhPaigey · September 2014

Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

Chrisbox · September 2014

Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy, thats what really started the downhill chart. Every single time if there was a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost only some. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining and still a loss.

OhhPaigey · September 2014

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers before writing all of that. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy. Every single time its still a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining.

I am not too sure what you expect from a game that's been out for over 10 years now, and the engine is probably closer to 13-14 years old, do you expect GROWING numbers on a game that's been at the top of MMOs for over 10 years and still is?

WoW didn't have an extremely ridiculous budget like these other games have, SWTOR, ESO. And look where they're at.

This game has been and still is extremely successful, and I feel like they have a general idea of what's best for the game, just based on how far the game has gotten alone.

Sorry, but after 10+ years, eventually people know what it is, and know if they like it or not. Numbers don't mean the game was better at the time, Destiny sold a zillion copies, and that game is trash. It simply means it was around during the right time.

The game has done nothing but improve since then, believe it or not.

Btw, okay, you said you lacked motivation, where would the motivation come from for new content if you haven't completed current content?

Chrisbox · September 2014

Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers before writing all of that. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy. Every single time its still a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining.

I am not too sure what you expect from a game that's been out for over 10 years now, and the engine is probably closer to 13-14 years old, do you expect GROWING numbers on a game that's been at the top of MMOs for over 10 years and still is?

WoW didn't have an extremely ridiculous budget like these other games have, SWTOR, ESO. And look where they're at.

This game has been and still is extremely successful, and I feel like they have a general idea of what's best for the game, just on how far the game has gotten alone.

Sorry, but after 10+ years, eventually people know what it is, and know if they like it or not. Numbers don't mean the game was better at the time, Destiny sold a zillion copies, and that game is trash. It simply means it was around during the right time.

The game has done nothing but improve since then, believe it or not.

Btw, okay, you said you lacked motivation, where would the motivation come from for new content if you haven't completed current content?

I'm not arguing whether or not the game has improved since back in the day, of course I would agree with that statement. I'm not sitting here preaching vanilla is the best erhamgherd! I'm just saying blizzard needs to go back to the drawing board with the amount of content they're delivering and when. Have you been on the forums throughout MoP? I'm tired of reading "Oh if we add cool feature A you guys will miss out of raid tier so and so." From a company thats loaded with cash....unacceptable!

Since you're clearly interested, heres my SoO heroic experience. I never had a steady group throughout all of MoP. 3/14H with one group, they stalled progression for over a month and I left. 6/14H with another group, they disbanded. 9/14H with another and they changed raiding times. I server transfered and got 10/14H, I had issues with the group and left. The amount of raiders just keeps getting reduced in that game. Now I've got a few options at this point, find another group for however many bosses they can get done, go play FFXIV that my friends are all enjoying and playing for a long period of time in a given day.

What you have to understand is that during this time in WoW I literally did nothing but login during raid day, there was NOTHING to do for me. No world to explore, nothing to grind in the meantime, crafting is so stale, nothing. My motivation to raid has always come from loving a game, logging in for X hours a week just to raid is not worth my money and certainly not attracting me towards the game. Yes raiding is the main reason I play these games, but it needs to be complimented by other elements, that's what truly makes a great MMO themepark. Oh and you can't say challenge modes either, because I golded all of those in like 5.2.

sketocafe · September 2014

At least their moving all A team devs and other resources out of WoW to work on Titan is going to pay off... uh oh.

jdizzle2k13 · September 2014

Always find it funny when people argue about raid experience.

Very few players are dedicated to heroic raiding in relation to the overall number of players. And I don't have the numbers to back that up right now, but I'm sure anyone could look them up.

I kinda sorta wanted to raid in MoP, but after I got my horde priest decked out in arena gear I got bored and put the game down for awhile. My guild wasn't really doing much at the time either.

It just takes too much dedication for a lot of people to be top tier raiders.

Hariken · September 2014

Originally posted by flizzer
I dont like WoW so I cant agree it is a fun game. I do, however, believe it is a smooth game that plays well even on a toaster. If any game deserves a sub it would be this game. Most newer games are riddled with bugs and play is often choppy. Maybe all these other developers need to borrow the Blizzard guys to help them iron out the bugs in their games. Have fun.

This is what i mean. Other games may look better but they really lack fluid gameplay. After logging in it was the first thing that made me notice it. I started thinking over all the other mmo's i played after wow. Not one of them could compare. Rift was the one that really stood out. I liked Rift but the gameplay didn't work for me.

laserit · September 2014

I just wish they would toughen up the regular combat, or even better have novice/normal/hard server's. Now that would be an MMORPG innovation!

That's my biggest gripe.

Oh... and give us a reasonable amount of content for that $15 a month

Oberholzer · September 2014

When people exhaust what they feel is the content they want to do why not take a break? It's not like Blizzard sneaks into your house while you're sleeping and resubs for you every month. Back when I played I took some breaks.

deniter · September 2014

Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by flizzer
I dont like WoW so I cant agree it is a fun game. I do, however, believe it is a smooth game that plays well even on a toaster. If any game deserves a sub it would be this game. Most newer games are riddled with bugs and play is often choppy. Maybe all these other developers need to borrow the Blizzard guys to help them iron out the bugs in their games. Have fun.

This is what i mean. Other games may look better but they really lack fluid gameplay. After logging in it was the first thing that made me notice it. I started thinking over all the other mmo's i played after wow. Not one of them could compare. Rift was the one that really stood out. I liked Rift but the gameplay didn't work for me.

I can agree with this. WoWs best 'feature' is fluid gameplay, and because it's so damn fun people will tolerate lots of negative issues. I could grind mobs for hours in wow, that's how fun it is to control your character in this game.

Unfortunately, the game design has taken lots of steps backwards since the last time i paid sub in late 2010, to the point you can barely call WoW a MMORPG anymore. So while it's a top quality product, it's not a product i want to pay for.

But always good to hear when someone else find it fun and entertaining.

laserit · September 2014

Originally posted by Oberholzer
When people exhaust what they feel is the content they want to do why not take a break? It's not like Blizzard sneaks into your house while you're sleeping and resubs for you every month. Back when I played I took some breaks.

True enough

Wouldn't it be cool if subscription games let you log in for a couple hours a month while your not subscribed. Kinda sucks to have to spend $15 just to have a peep.

Ah... such is the business of making money

strangepowers · September 2014

I went back too, lasted about 20 days out of 30 before I remembered why I left years ago. Unsubbed yesterday.

Instigator-Jones · September 2014

I just resub'd recently too. I stopped right before Panda just because it got boring and repetitive. I then found Panda on sale for $10, and knowing that WoD is around the corner, I updated my client and subbed to see if my initial thoughts were correct. First dungeon... Down the boss... And dancing monkeys come out... unsub.
WoW has a warm place in my heart, and I look forward to WoD, but the Panda experience has really set it back in my mind. WoD looks grittier and more to the feel that I want, but I'll wait for another $10 sale before I give it a go.

CrazKanuk · September 2014

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy, thats what really started the downhill chart. Every single time if there was a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost only some. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining and still a loss.

Are you kidding me? You're like a fat kid saying they didn't like the entire box of chocolate bars they just ate in a single sitting.

You've done more raid content than 99% of people, you've got more PvP kills than a lot, I'm sure. You've not only done Heroic content, but Normal, and Raid Finder content. I'm not saying that you're a liar. I agree that even in my current, casual state with WoW, I get tired of the content and wish it'd come quicker. However, to say you "didn't like" a game that you clearly played more often than a good percentage of the people in the game means you either enjoy the game or that you're seriously flawed. Sorry, if I don't like a game, I'll walk away after 10, 15 hours? And I think THAT'S generous!! You've obviously got hundreds, if not thousands of hours invested. Nuff said.

Yaevindusk · September 2014

Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
I just resub'd recently too. I stopped right before Panda just because it got boring and repetitive. I then found Panda on sale for $10, and knowing that WoD is around the corner, I updated my client and subbed to see if my initial thoughts were correct. First dungeon... Down the boss... And dancing monkeys come out... unsub.
WoW has a warm place in my heart, and I look forward to WoD, but the Panda experience has really set it back in my mind. WoD looks grittier and more to the feel that I want, but I'll wait for another $10 sale before I give it a go.

I guess you could say that fun actually doesn't equate to a...

Barrel full of monkeys!

Haha! Haha...ha... ha... Haaa...

This is probably why I have bad luck with relationships.

Though in all honesty, if you spend the money for the game and the subscription, you should really give the leveling experience a fair shot. It's one thing that MoP did right, and the areas past the Jade Forest (and even areas therein) have fantastic aesthetics. It's main failing was all the dailies it forced you to do in the patches leading up to 5.4 in addition to the 12-14 months of no content being provided. Though I'm typically a Role Player and a PvPer, so I make my own content.

There's also Dog. I love Dog. He's my friend. You save him from starving once you own your own Farm and he essentially becomes your pet. In WoD he also follows you to Draenor if you rescued him in Pandaria. Though yes, WoD has a savage theme to it and you build your base much like you would in WCIII as a whole.

Though MoP in itself was the bloodiest and most War-torn expansion to date. Mass genocide, children being sacrificed to demons, entire areas being blown up, armies clashing on the shores, refugees being slaughtered and losing everything if they survive. Villages actually being attacked and leveled... angry armies of the unknown seeking to overwhelm and devour. It lead up to the actual sieging of a Major Capital in the last patch. It is just a brutal and bloody expansion that humbled me into no longer judging things by their cover and initial impressions. You enter Pandaria and see all these tree and a peaceful lifestyle... that you absolutely destroy with war, rage, enslavement and disease. Destroying traditions, hope and awakening ancient evils that are bent of death and destruction. Then several areas are completely transformed from their 5.0 state due to events set into motion by your presence. It was like Cataclysm all over again what with destroying sections of the Jade Forest, The Wilds and The Sacred Valley. The main problem a lot of people had with it was, yes, Pandas. Seemed too cutesy and childish, when the actual story was dark and grim.

jdizzle2k13 · September 2014

Originally posted by Yaevindusk

Though MoP in itself was the bloodiest and most War-torn expansion to date. Mass genocide, children being sacrificed to demons, entire areas being blown up, armies clashing on the shores, refugees being slaughtered and losing everything if they survive. Villages actually being attacked and leveled... angry armies of the unknown seeking to overwhelm and devour. It lead up to the actual sieging of a Major Capital in the last patch. It is just a brutal and bloody expansion that humbled me into no longer judging things by their cover and initial impressions. You enter Pandaria and see all these tree and a peaceful lifestyle... that you absolutely destroy with war, rage, enslavement and disease. Destroying traditions, hope and awakening ancient evils that are bent of death and destruction. Then several areas are completely transformed from their 5.0 state due to events set into motion by your presence. It was like Cataclysm all over again what with destroying sections of the Jade Forest, The Wilds and The Sacred Valley. The main problem a lot of people had with it was, yes, Pandas. Seemed too cutesy and childish, when the actual story was dark and grim.

That's something a lot of people don't think about. It's easy to look at the box and say, "Oh, Pandas, this is for kids" and not see the conflict, struggle and bloodshed that actually goes on in the expansion.

mark2123 · September 2014

Anyone who dug their heels in and didn't play MoP or give it a chance because of 'Pandas' should reflect on how they were ok with the walking cows! (Taurens).

Mpfive · September 2014

Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers before writing all of that. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy. Every single time its still a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining.

I am not too sure what you expect from a game that's been out for over 10 years now, and the engine is probably closer to 13-14 years old, do you expect GROWING numbers on a game that's been at the top of MMOs for over 10 years and still is?

WoW didn't have an extremely ridiculous budget like these other games have, SWTOR, ESO. And look where they're at.

This game has been and still is extremely successful, and I feel like they have a general idea of what's best for the game, just based on how far the game has gotten alone.

Sorry, but after 10+ years, eventually people know what it is, and know if they like it or not. Numbers don't mean the game was better at the time, Destiny sold a zillion copies, and that game is trash. It simply means it was around during the right time.

The game has done nothing but improve since then, believe it or not.

Btw, okay, you said you lacked motivation, where would the motivation come from for new content if you haven't completed current content?

WoW released when there was nothing around, any modern mmo today that would of released in WoWs place back then would be king of the hill now

WoW was most peoples first mmo also, if WoW released in this day and age, it would probably be average at best, like most mmos today

Squeak69 · September 2014

Originally posted by Mpfive
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by OhhPaigey
Originally posted by Chrisbox
The 14+ months of no content is just not acceptable from a company making that much money, I just don't see or feel the passion from the dev team anymore in any of their patches. I'm not the only one either, because they're losing a TON of money from sub drops.

You're 14/14H?

On a more serious note, your argument is not new and you contradicted yourself, if you say there's no new content for 14 months, but then say they're losing money because people don't feel the "passion" from devs, that doesn't make sense.

I'm pretty sure everybody agrees that it was way too long to go without content, but if they can focus & hype an expansion instead of releasing a raid that less than 1% of WoWs playerbase will clear on heroic, I'm pretty sure that their decision makes sense.

They obviously can afford to lose some subs, and they've probably made back what they possibly have lost from not releasing content, just from pre orders.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Chrisboxed/simple

Didn't like the game enough to look for a new group to finish the last 4 bosses on H, completely lacked motivation. I then moved over to raiding FFXIV but I've played enough of this damn game and have seen it evolve over the years. The stall out until expansion for them is clearly not doing them any good, and the player base has voiced it.

You should really look at some numbers before writing all of that. They peaked in wrath @ 12 million in Q1, and ever since have steadily declined. Yea they make back some of the subs they've lost with every expansion release but with cata...oh boy. Hell I barely played cata and I was a WoW fanboy. Every single time its still a loss of total subs, they've never made back the amount of subs they lost. I haven't looked at the reports in a while, but what are they at like 6 million right now? I bet it'll shoot back up past 7 at WoD launch, but again, still declining.

I am not too sure what you expect from a game that's been out for over 10 years now, and the engine is probably closer to 13-14 years old, do you expect GROWING numbers on a game that's been at the top of MMOs for over 10 years and still is?

WoW didn't have an extremely ridiculous budget like these other games have, SWTOR, ESO. And look where they're at.

This game has been and still is extremely successful, and I feel like they have a general idea of what's best for the game, just based on how far the game has gotten alone.

Sorry, but after 10+ years, eventually people know what it is, and know if they like it or not. Numbers don't mean the game was better at the time, Destiny sold a zillion copies, and that game is trash. It simply means it was around during the right time.

The game has done nothing but improve since then, believe it or not.

Btw, okay, you said you lacked motivation, where would the motivation come from for new content if you haven't completed current content?

WoW released when there was nothing around, any modern mmo today that would of released in WoWs place back then would be king of the hill now

WoW was most peoples first mmo also, if WoW released in this day and age, it would probably be average at best, like most mmos today

thats ot actully true as several MMOs released at around the same time as WoW and are dead currently.

why is it so hard fr people to admit that WoW is a good MMO, yes it theme park, but its damn good theme park with lots of detaisl both small and large put into it, and the game is just outright fun.

one dya people will learn just because they dont enjoy it dose not mean it is bad.

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