Originally posted by mgilbrtsn Lol. You can expect a lively debate just mentioning SWG, much less saying it was a dissapointment.
LOL yup, the moment I clicked that article and saw SWG on there I knew there'd be some rage heading this way.
The vast majority of people may have found it a flawed game, but those who liked it, REALLY liked it.
Folks often have difficulties separating enjoying the game from analysis of its design. You can absolutely like a very flawed design. Not specific to just games either, there are poor writers, filmmakers, musicians, etc, who are quite popular. Hell, I still play Master of Orion 3: But I'll never tell anyone it was well designed.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
For me, it has to be Warhammer. I remember playing the beta at the end and just thinking "wow what a cheap knock-off of wow". Yes, I know the Warhammer IP precedes Warcraft and Blizzard's initial idea was to create an MMO off of the IP but something with Games Workshop prevented that...(I actually played some Warhammer in the 80s).
But the MMO implementation of it was just so bleh visually. I played a month or so but was really disappointed in it.
@richard aihoshi- i think your section on ffxiv isnt accurate. See you played at the very beginning. Did u play up to 1.23? 1.23 was amazing and they were really starting to smooth it all out. The problem with ur articles on games is that you dontgive games time to develop. You just play for 10 min then judge. I like reading your articles cuz they make me laugh at your ignorance.
except for FFXIV and wildstar......these games are some of the better ones imho tough.
worst for me are AOC (zones too damn small), secret world (animations where so bad i tought i was back in the 80's), Wildstar (just impossible to find a party after the game was one month old......the world was just empty).
1. GW 2-it was so different and so streamlined and random when compared to(hmm...maybe it is a good game? Maybe I shouldn't compare?) GW 1 that I had an urge to break the disc I paid about 75$. I still can't play it and regret ever buying it. It was even uninstalled within a fortnight...
2. Age of Conan-it had so much potential! The classes themselves are unique and interesting, the combat is different and fun, the story, the IP, the GFX, the Artwork and the sound stuff. Then what went wrong? Idk, but after Tortage, it all kinda fell apart. I was playing it ~rotg era and even some half year ago and everything's the same! They saw how much they'd need to work and they...quit? What a shame!
3. World of Warcraft-I practically grew up as it grew up, so I'm no stranger to this one. I remember everyone talking about this one and how awesome it is and everything, so I got a trial from friend(one of those 14day trials of yore) back ~WoTLK era. My reaction? Why in the name of nine blazes would anyone play this? GFX, Artwork, "story", classes, EVERYTHING was so Vanilla and average. I gave it some week or so time, but the experience didn't improve-it only crumbled even more. And to think that this ultra average game(literally "average Joe" of MMOs) came from the franchise I used to like AND to think it became a mould for MMOs to come...disappointment!
4. Warhammer online-I won't list what they did wrong, but what they did right. Tome of knowledge, Public quests, writing, Artwork and ...??? IP perhaps? Everything else(yes RvR included!) was a broken mess. The reason is simple: they simply had to CHOOSE if they wanted a wow clone or a DAoC clone. Instead of choosing they tried to have the best of both worlds. And failed spectacularly! Then they gave up and let the game rot until the IP expired. Want to know the best part? They even had an undead(as a 3rd Faction no less!) themed expansion in the works! But refused to work on it/release it! I mean...wth O.O
5. Vanguard-twas such a lovely and beautiful and intelligent game(if I ever find a girl that has all those features...xD). Unique classes, unique mechanics, unique world...all for naught. Why? Because after they had troubles with engine(really unreal engine? In an MMO back in...2008?) during the launch and after they tried to wow-ify the game and after they found out how much work was required...they quit! The rest is history(sadly ;( )...
Other (dis)Honourable mentions:
LoTRO-yes it is an awesome game, but it relies on its community way too much. Without it, it is a Hollow experience. It doesn't have GW 2/wow/Rift/AoC combat mechanics(far from it! See, combat in LoTRO is...plain), quests are uninspired(apart from writing) and there is overall too much same old same old.
TSW-why is this even an MMO? It would be at least 2-3x better as a single player game...
Swtor-look I love this game DEEPLY, but if I had to choose between MMO Tor and CRPG Tor...I wouldn't think for a second(if that much!). Basically the same as TSW: it's MMO just because it was the thing/fad at the time they were designed. Luckily, it seems that this fad ended. Luckily.
Basically, my biggest disappointments come from MMOs where their devs gave up. Everything else is based either on my wrongly calibrated sense of expectation(GW 2, wow) or kinda missed genre(TSW, swtor). But those are minor
I hate devs who give up! If swtor could pick itself up from, literally, jaws of death...why quit?
I totally feel the same way about TSW - good game, but I'm not sure why it would need to be an MMO. I'd love to see it as a console game, with local/online coop. I feel the same way about SWTOR and ESO, but that's a different story.
How this game can go from a masterpiece at launch with all its framework and potential to the PoS it is today is unfathomable.
I said it on their forums before they perm-banned me, you could have put a suit on a monkey and blindfolded the little guy, put feces in its hand and let him throw it around a room and he'd have done a much better job at managing this game than their current staff.
I think some of the potential we see can see in AoC in the Khitai zones. They provide progression without levels, only with gear and quests. Abstracting from the grind there, it's one of the best implemented expanions in MMOs that I know of.
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
Replace SWG with Vanguard and you have a good list. Vanguard could have been a good game, but it had so much missing from it that it never had a chance. There was a lot of unfinished content that SOE just tossed in the recycle bin.
As to SWG, I think Richard just threw that in as troll bait. It was far from a perfect game, but whining about how hard core it was, now that was ludicrous. Living in the player made cities, always having a group to do something with, try to find that in all these solo intensive games these days. Even Wow encouraged grouping at least initially. If you failed to find direction in SWG, it was because you attempted to do it solo, there were lots of things to do if you played with others who were aware of them.
Richard, after reading the writing in the SWG section, you really need to take a writing course, because your logic on that topic is flawed. It is more like you threw together a bunch of words attempting to reach a meaning that the article fails to achieve.
At least throwing in the SWG comment will get your post count up.
SWG was okay when I did play it, but I was stuck on Anarchy Online then WoW the entire time, so never really got around to playing extensively.
AoC, although the worst of the Funcom trio (AO, AoC, TSW) was not a bad game at all. People set their expectations in a direction that was destined to fail them. It’s one of the few games where I had multiple toons at max level. 4 prior to offline leveling and 2 more after. I think the combat was pretty good, but can see how action gamers would think it was a fail…but it’s an MMORPG…not an action game. The finishers were amazing and never got old for me. The greatest part of AoC were the dungeons…some of the best I’ve played in any game. One of the most innovative and helpful parts of the game were the vast array of solo dungeons you could do…helped leveling alts quite a bit.
FFXIV original version was the worst game I’ve ever played across any platform…yeah, worse than E.T. on the Atari :P
Lego Universe was the 2nd worst game
DCUO was awesome, but it didn’t have staying power…I played closed beta and 30 days into launch, but then I’d seen everything I came for and didn’t feel like playing anymore. It was a VERY fun game though.
Anarchy Online.......
Ugh, what a gem. Too bad FC flushed down the toilet. It was once my all time favorite game until they added the item store.
Well, talk about brave! Saying SWG was a disappointment is dangerous. A lot of the playerbase look on the game as the crown jewel and are still butt hurt over what was done to it. Tar and feathers, with rusty nails, and stuff.
The rest of the list I agree with. Especially FFXIV. The game in 2010 had a lot of potential. The job system is completely awesome. I wish more games would have something similar. However, the game as a whole was incomplete, slow, boring, and a poor imitation of "the other game". The new version is leaps and bounds better.
I logged into AOC briefly. When I mean briefly, I mean like 30min. Got disgusted and logged out.
DC Universe is the one I never tried. I've played City of Heroes (beta and live) and Champions (beta and live), but never really had a desire to play DC Universe. Heard a mix of good and bad things, so I can't comment.
Lego Universe: No comment. I mean really? Legos are awesome as the Lego games like Star Wars Legos and IRL as the stuff you put together...but never as an MMO. That being said, I never had the desire to even try the game.
But seriously!?!? Where's my pitchfork, tar, feathers, and torch!
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I sgree with the Sentiment that WoW is a huge disapointment and i dont speak of the awful art direction.
When it was released i played it too bcs my friends pulled me over, i could stomach to be a dwarf melee character and the game was the most poilished game ever released and it had indeed anything to become a great MMO (despite the art).
But 3 months in they changed the visual to be more mean to satisfy all the Little mean Boys that have a mean Boy Syndrome and step after step invalidated or disabled anything that could have become good over time.
Today (and i played it a few weeks b4 the Panda fail) it is a no challenge no social no worldly small Group dungeon boredeom grinder.
Daoc still has the best PvP, it is more wordly, has an art direction that does not make me freak out in despair (most of the time - you Need a few things to hate so you can enjoy the good stuff more).
WoW brought the whole genre to an unhealthy halt and stalled any Progress for so many years and its success still invalidates anything else.
WoW is a success that had more losers than winners - like real capitalism works.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Comments
Folks often have difficulties separating enjoying the game from analysis of its design. You can absolutely like a very flawed design. Not specific to just games either, there are poor writers, filmmakers, musicians, etc, who are quite popular. Hell, I still play Master of Orion 3: But I'll never tell anyone it was well designed.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
For me, it has to be Warhammer. I remember playing the beta at the end and just thinking "wow what a cheap knock-off of wow". Yes, I know the Warhammer IP precedes Warcraft and Blizzard's initial idea was to create an MMO off of the IP but something with Games Workshop prevented that...(I actually played some Warhammer in the 80s).
But the MMO implementation of it was just so bleh visually. I played a month or so but was really disappointed in it.
except for FFXIV and wildstar......these games are some of the better ones imho tough.
worst for me are AOC (zones too damn small), secret world (animations where so bad i tought i was back in the 80's), Wildstar (just impossible to find a party after the game was one month old......the world was just empty).
my 2 copperz
SWG was the best MMO ever made. Even all these years later there still hasnt been any game to come close.
I totally feel the same way about TSW - good game, but I'm not sure why it would need to be an MMO. I'd love to see it as a console game, with local/online coop. I feel the same way about SWTOR and ESO, but that's a different story.
How this game can go from a masterpiece at launch with all its framework and potential to the PoS it is today is unfathomable.
I said it on their forums before they perm-banned me, you could have put a suit on a monkey and blindfolded the little guy, put feces in its hand and let him throw it around a room and he'd have done a much better job at managing this game than their current staff.
Replace SWG with Vanguard and you have a good list. Vanguard could have been a good game, but it had so much missing from it that it never had a chance. There was a lot of unfinished content that SOE just tossed in the recycle bin.
As to SWG, I think Richard just threw that in as troll bait. It was far from a perfect game, but whining about how hard core it was, now that was ludicrous. Living in the player made cities, always having a group to do something with, try to find that in all these solo intensive games these days. Even Wow encouraged grouping at least initially. If you failed to find direction in SWG, it was because you attempted to do it solo, there were lots of things to do if you played with others who were aware of them.
Richard, after reading the writing in the SWG section, you really need to take a writing course, because your logic on that topic is flawed. It is more like you threw together a bunch of words attempting to reach a meaning that the article fails to achieve.
At least throwing in the SWG comment will get your post count up.
Anarchy Online.......
Ugh, what a gem. Too bad FC flushed down the toilet. It was once my all time favorite game until they added the item store.
Well, talk about brave! Saying SWG was a disappointment is dangerous. A lot of the playerbase look on the game as the crown jewel and are still butt hurt over what was done to it. Tar and feathers, with rusty nails, and stuff.
The rest of the list I agree with. Especially FFXIV. The game in 2010 had a lot of potential. The job system is completely awesome. I wish more games would have something similar. However, the game as a whole was incomplete, slow, boring, and a poor imitation of "the other game". The new version is leaps and bounds better.
I logged into AOC briefly. When I mean briefly, I mean like 30min. Got disgusted and logged out.
DC Universe is the one I never tried. I've played City of Heroes (beta and live) and Champions (beta and live), but never really had a desire to play DC Universe. Heard a mix of good and bad things, so I can't comment.
Lego Universe: No comment. I mean really? Legos are awesome as the Lego games like Star Wars Legos and IRL as the stuff you put together...but never as an MMO. That being said, I never had the desire to even try the game.
But seriously!?!? Where's my pitchfork, tar, feathers, and torch!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I sgree with the Sentiment that WoW is a huge disapointment and i dont speak of the awful art direction.
When it was released i played it too bcs my friends pulled me over, i could stomach to be a dwarf melee character and the game was the most poilished game ever released and it had indeed anything to become a great MMO (despite the art).
But 3 months in they changed the visual to be more mean to satisfy all the Little mean Boys that have a mean Boy Syndrome and step after step invalidated or disabled anything that could have become good over time.
Today (and i played it a few weeks b4 the Panda fail) it is a no challenge no social no worldly small Group dungeon boredeom grinder.
Daoc still has the best PvP, it is more wordly, has an art direction that does not make me freak out in despair (most of the time - you Need a few things to hate so you can enjoy the good stuff more).
WoW brought the whole genre to an unhealthy halt and stalled any Progress for so many years and its success still invalidates anything else.
WoW is a success that had more losers than winners - like real capitalism works.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM