Things that have been removed from the mmo genre in some games:
Classes
Open world dungeons/zones
Experience points
Levels
Time to get max level has been reduced or removed in some games
Travel by foot or mount
Difficulty
Grouping
Exploration
Camping
And now you want to remove combat? just put this genre out of its misery its not even a shell of what it used to be
... what? There is so much potential in video games that is not tapped into because of people with your viewpoint flooding the markets. Games have the potential to be an entire experience, not just an addictive "click this button to kill that thing!"
I'm not saying that all of the things you mentioned are good or bad, just that it doesn't have to be just that. Think of "Jurassic Park" the video game: you come onto this beautiful island full of exotic animals to take a look at what the park claims are "real dinosaurs"; you wander around the park and realize that the entire park power has been shut off and you have to find a way off the island. I can see a whole lot of cool scenarios in a game like that that have nothing to do with combat: hiding, treating wounds (yours and others), eating local plants to survive before you find your way off the island (but make sure they aren't poisonous!), finding shelter/building shelter, breeding dinosaurs, ...
I realize that previous example was single player, but it works just as well with mmos if they design it right. Eve online had a great vision for non-combat based play with their walking-in-stations. If it hadn't have failed, you might have been able to strategize from stations, gamble, see shows or something (why not have movies or plays you can attend in-game?)...
The sims is another example of a game that had no combat (I never played the online version, but I assume it didn't either).
Also, OP, one of the reasons I quit SWTOR and will never go back is due to one huge absurd part of the game.
Here I am playing this Jedi Consular. I mass murder my way through planet after planet of living, thinking creatures. Then I finally come face to face with the evil Sith Lord who is responsible for the deaths of untold innocent lives. I fight this guy and beat him in combat, and just when I'm about to swing my lightsaber to end his miserable existence the game puts on the brakes and says "NOPE, that's a Dark Side choice! Let him live for Light Side points!".
Uhhhhh, wait, wut? I just literally slaughtered, and I'm not even kidding, about 5000 people in order to get to this guy but killing HIM makes me evil?
The dialogue choices were just as ridiculous. I would have these conversations with my companions about how Jedi should be compassionate and only use the force for good and to help people. Then the dialogue ends and I run down four hallways showing dozens of sentient creatures about as much compassion as my wife has for fireants in our yard.
I still remember to this day, even though I haven't played SWTOR in forever, a mission on Coruscant where my only objective was to kill 40 of these Justicar guys for absolutely not other reason than when I walked into the zone I got a popup mission to randomly murder 40 people for XP. I almost quit then, but I really wanted to get my $60 dollars worth of "story" first.
So yeah, getting back to the point, I would love to have an MMO that isn't about slaughtering your way to level XX.
Haha classic. They have plenty of movies that aren't just about slaughtering people. Even most of the star wars movies only had killing in self defense for the good guys. Why does this have to stop at non-interactive media? Games have the potential for so much more!
Try Mabinogi OP, it's got classes solely meant for trade and the likes and you'll actually level as well. Rather fun game for living an actual life instead of constant combat.
Also, OP, one of the reasons I quit SWTOR and will never go back is due to one huge absurd part of the game.
Here I am playing this Jedi Consular. I mass murder my way through planet after planet of living, thinking creatures. Then I finally come face to face with the evil Sith Lord who is responsible for the deaths of untold innocent lives. I fight this guy and beat him in combat, and just when I'm about to swing my lightsaber to end his miserable existence the game puts on the brakes and says "NOPE, that's a Dark Side choice! Let him live for Light Side points!".
Uhhhhh, wait, wut? I just literally slaughtered, and I'm not even kidding, about 5000 people in order to get to this guy but killing HIM makes me evil?
The dialogue choices were just as ridiculous. I would have these conversations with my companions about how Jedi should be compassionate and only use the force for good and to help people. Then the dialogue ends and I run down four hallways showing dozens of sentient creatures about as much compassion as my wife has for fireants in our yard.
I still remember to this day, even though I haven't played SWTOR in forever, a mission on Coruscant where my only objective was to kill 40 of these Justicar guys for absolutely not other reason than when I walked into the zone I got a popup mission to randomly murder 40 people for XP. I almost quit then, but I really wanted to get my $60 dollars worth of "story" first.
So yeah, getting back to the point, I would love to have an MMO that isn't about slaughtering your way to level XX.
Yes, exactly so!! That perfectly expresses how I feel about it.
SWTOR was such a missed opportunity to incorporate meaningful moral choice into MMOs. But they totally blew it. As it stands you can play out an entire class story and make all the dark choices until you are full dark-side evil or make ALL the light choices until you are full light-side good and in both cases the story just rolls along the exact same progression. It's fantastically silly if you stop and think about it.
In the end it's the ultimate theme park on rails instead of the moral sandbox it could have been. I think there was so much development money on the line that they were too scared to break from any easy-mode MMO conventions.
I have two problems with endless killing in MMOs.
First, it's just a boring and overdone mechanic to stretch out your playtime and slow leveling. Churning your way through mobs as mere busy-work is not something I really want to do any longer.
Secondly, the moral question. How can I see my character as a decent being if he leaves endless swathes of dead bodies in his wake, often just innocent animals or people who were in the way? This problem is not so bad in games like Secret World where you are primarily killing demons and monsters.
Runescape Mabinogi EVE Online Wurm Online Mortal Online (you'll probably have to defend yourself from other players though)
It really sounds like MMO's aren't for you though, you complain about how grinding is just there to prolong the 'content', but that is the point, MMOs are primarily for people with many hours a week to spend on games, as they provide much cheaper entertainment with their high re-playability. If you were to play 20+ hours a week on single player games, you would be spending tons of money because most games (excluding JRPGS which are also notoriously grindy) last a lot less than 15 hours these days, at least in story.
I feel you though, recently I have not been able to get into any MMOs, Despite having played them for over 10 years.
Comments
... what? There is so much potential in video games that is not tapped into because of people with your viewpoint flooding the markets. Games have the potential to be an entire experience, not just an addictive "click this button to kill that thing!"
I'm not saying that all of the things you mentioned are good or bad, just that it doesn't have to be just that. Think of "Jurassic Park" the video game: you come onto this beautiful island full of exotic animals to take a look at what the park claims are "real dinosaurs"; you wander around the park and realize that the entire park power has been shut off and you have to find a way off the island. I can see a whole lot of cool scenarios in a game like that that have nothing to do with combat: hiding, treating wounds (yours and others), eating local plants to survive before you find your way off the island (but make sure they aren't poisonous!), finding shelter/building shelter, breeding dinosaurs, ...
I realize that previous example was single player, but it works just as well with mmos if they design it right. Eve online had a great vision for non-combat based play with their walking-in-stations. If it hadn't have failed, you might have been able to strategize from stations, gamble, see shows or something (why not have movies or plays you can attend in-game?)...
The sims is another example of a game that had no combat (I never played the online version, but I assume it didn't either).
Haha classic. They have plenty of movies that aren't just about slaughtering people. Even most of the star wars movies only had killing in self defense for the good guys. Why does this have to stop at non-interactive media? Games have the potential for so much more!
Yes, exactly so!! That perfectly expresses how I feel about it.
SWTOR was such a missed opportunity to incorporate meaningful moral choice into MMOs. But they totally blew it. As it stands you can play out an entire class story and make all the dark choices until you are full dark-side evil or make ALL the light choices until you are full light-side good and in both cases the story just rolls along the exact same progression. It's fantastically silly if you stop and think about it.
In the end it's the ultimate theme park on rails instead of the moral sandbox it could have been. I think there was so much development money on the line that they were too scared to break from any easy-mode MMO conventions.
I have two problems with endless killing in MMOs.
First, it's just a boring and overdone mechanic to stretch out your playtime and slow leveling. Churning your way through mobs as mere busy-work is not something I really want to do any longer.
Secondly, the moral question. How can I see my character as a decent being if he leaves endless swathes of dead bodies in his wake, often just innocent animals or people who were in the way? This problem is not so bad in games like Secret World where you are primarily killing demons and monsters.
This has been a good discussion.
Runescape
Mabinogi
EVE Online
Wurm Online
Mortal Online (you'll probably have to defend yourself from other players though)
It really sounds like MMO's aren't for you though, you complain about how grinding is just there to prolong the 'content', but that is the point, MMOs are primarily for people with many hours a week to spend on games, as they provide much cheaper entertainment with their high re-playability. If you were to play 20+ hours a week on single player games, you would be spending tons of money because most games (excluding JRPGS which are also notoriously grindy) last a lot less than 15 hours these days, at least in story.
I feel you though, recently I have not been able to get into any MMOs, Despite having played them for over 10 years.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online