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Review - Hearthstone is a heavy P2W game!
IceAge
Member EpicPosts: 3,203
Ok! Been playing HS in beta and around 5 days ago, I decided to play again, because a friend of mine told me to play with him.
All good! Started to play with my friend. He had several gold cards and he beated me easly almost everytime. He told me that I need to play ranked and/or arena in order to get cards and also to level up for the basic ones. Of course, doing daily quests for gold to play in arena was a must. So ..I told myself , why not.
I started in ranked games, because I didn't had gold to play in arena. Up until rank 20 was ..OK, meaning I played against players with decent cards. Until rank 20 I managed to get gold to play in 1 arena. I had 1/3 as a score in arena, so I was rewarded with 25 gold and 1 pack of cards. Now, for that day I was not able to play arena anymore, because .. yes gold. 150 entry fees and all I got was 25 gold and a 1 pack of cards, which .. they were .. normal and silver.
Next day, did my daily quests + several wins = 1 arena ticket. Good , let's play. 0/3 this time and I was rewarded with same amount of gold and 1 pack. Ok, back to ranked games. Managed to get to rank 18 or so and oh boy. I played against players which .. basically they destroyed me with their gold cards.
I told myself to pay some real money to get arena tickets.
Fast forward, after 5 days and .. around 5-7 hours of game sessions each-day, i decided that this game is very heavy pay to win in ranked and pay to play in arena. Is not friendly at all for F2P players.
I managed to get to level 6 in arena which i was very disappointed because I got 75 gold in a sack, one card in other, and 1 pack of cards in the last. That didn't covered the entry costs at all to be able to play again in arena. Sure, if I was lucky, I could get 2x75 gold and 1 pack of cards, but I wasn't. The rest of times in arena, I finished in level's between 2 and 5. Not a single time I got my entry fees back. So , if you do not manage to get to at least level 6 in arena, you are forced to :
1) Do the daily's + whatever amount of gold you got from arena = 1 entry per DAY and that's it.
After that
2) Play ranked where you will get crushed at rank 15 and below.
Now , after getting up to rank 15, I don't see myself playing in ranked past 15 , because a lot of players have gold cards which of course, they paid for them. I asked several players after I played with them and they beated me with gold cards , about how much money did they spent in HS for packs and/or arena tickets to be able to get gold cards. Well , between 40$ and 200$, and that was for just asking several players. NOT 1 didn't said "None. I didn't pay a cent" . And trust me, to get gold cards you gotta buy/earn lots of packs of cards. I managed to get 3 gold cards after opening .. around 30 packs.
30 packs = around 3000 gold , where, if you are doing your daily's , you get around 100 gold or, pay real money.
I paid around 21E in 5 days for arena tickets , I earned daily around 150 gold + 300 gold once for winning 100 matches and I end up in frustration, because normally , if you don't want to pay real money for tickets, you need to do your daily quests and play 1 arena per day and that's it. Ranked games are so fucked up so they are not worth the time.
Here are some stats released by Blizzard :
The following data, released by Blizzard in September 2014,[6] shows the percentage of active players at each rank at the end of the season, based on combined data from Ranked Seasons 1-5.[7][8] By comparing your own rank at the end of each season, this can be used to get a rough idea of your overall standing in Ranked play.
75% of players are between ranks 25 and 15
17.5% of players are between ranks 15 and 10
5.5% of players are between ranks 10 and 5
2% of players are between ranks 5 and Legend
0.5% of players are at Legend
Source : http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Play_mode
If you want to get past rank 15 , you need to :
1) Grind the hell out of this game, like playing daily 10 hours +
2) Pay , lots of money , and.. yes , you will be above rank 15.
Please, don't tell me that cards don't mean a player is good. Sure, I managed to win against players with gold cards which where bad , but the rate is around 2/10 , because at some point, that bad player will learn at least the basics on each card and what to do, whereas you .. yes, grind very much, to get cards if you don't want to pay.
All in all I am very disappointed about the business model which Blizzard choosed for HS and it seems that they will do the same with HoTS ( mmorpg.com opinion about HoTS http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1002/feature/9027/An-Awesome-But-Poorly-Monetized-Game.html )
I will not pay a cent anymore for HS and I will definetly NOT play HoTS if , in the end, will follow HS's business model.
At this rate, I think HS is/will earn more money then WoW and if this will be true , prepare to see Blizzard's next games, your typical P2W.
I am all for , to pay some money for a good game, but paying and still being limited to enjoy more then 1 hour per day on that game, it's absurd.
It's pity however, because HS is fun until one point. Blizzard is getting very greedy here , because the addicted players will say "hey , 1.79E for 1 arena ticket is nothing" , but at the end of the day, you may see yourself paying for 5 or more tickets.
Well .. thanks for your time.
EDIT: Just re-read my post, and it seems I called them Gold cards instead Legendary. So just .. replace Gold with Legendary when you are reading 
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Comments
You're late to the party in a vertical progression competitive game, sadly. Even if the game wasn't pay-to-win, the fact that the entire game centers around competing with other players and that they've been playing much longer and thus are higher on the vertical progression ladder than you would have made things insanely difficult. At this point, you're probably getting beaten by people who aren't even whales but simply played the game longer.
Of course, in a game where your own vertical progression depends on you winning in competitions, yet your competition has an advantage because they've been around longer (or paid more, if you happen to run into any of those), it goes without saying that any attempt for you to make your way up the ladder would be much much harder than say, some guy who was playing months earlier before everyone else got so powerful. At this point, yea, paying-to-win (specifically, pay-to-catch-up) is practically the only option.
These are some of the flaws of a vertical progression game that's also based on competition.
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https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
@TiamatRoar
Yes, that is very much true.
In top of that, the sad thing is that, they don't even let you catch up. They limit your game-play if you don't pay, because beside the 100 gold per day which you can get by doing the daily quests, all you are done left is get 10 gold for each 3 wins, and I heard that even this reward is capped at 30 wins per day, which means just another 100 gold.
Now, pardon me, to win 30 matches per day to make a total of 200 gold , you have to play around .. at least between 40 and .. 100? games per day. That's around .. several hours per day, just to play .. maybe 2 arena's and get 2 packs of cards.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
lolz, where have you been the last 10+ years m8....BLIZZARD invented the P2Win games.
The rest just copyd it.
How did .. Blizzard invented the P2W games in the last 10+ years?
They started P2W with Diablo 3 real money auction house, which .. they were smart enough and shut it down .
Any other P2W games invented by Blizzard in the last 10+ years which I don't know?
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
maybe P2win is wrong word here.....micropayments, blizz invented the micropayments (also on top of your sub.....greed anyone?).
Yes!
But until then , as a free player or even "payer" , you really have to invest an insane time.
To be able to earn the entry ticket from arena rewards, you need to at least get to level 6 in arena. But, if you are unlucky , which I have been few times, you will get dust or a card in one of the 3 sacks. So in the end, you will still be limited at 1-2 or maybe 3 arena's daily.
Yes, there are the pro's which normally get to level 6 in arena easily , but .. they invested a lot of time , or paid a lot of money ( the majority did the last part ) , in order to get there.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
While you have a point , I don't see a problem to pay for cosmetics. Some , as you it seems, may find this a bad move, but I don't.
What I am (very) against, is P2W games and like I said, it seems Blizzard is following this trend by implementing the same business model to Heroes of the Storm.
Blizzard got the most money from me, when it comes down to games, but I have a feeling that this will change.
In the past, they made quality P2P/B2P games. Now it seems they will focus on quality free P2W games.
And this market lacks a lot in terms of quality , because there are a lot of trash F2P - P2W games and Blizzard will just .. be the king of those.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Its blizzard is always money wins, i dont get why ppl complain is P2W, its companys they gotta make money some whant it all others rather do it in a more friendly way, never the less TGC games are always you pay you get the cards and win... I alredy predict the future in a blizzard game, gona be more and more cash shop focus... I know blizzard fans gona come and cry, dont cry if wow is that good go play it dont loose time here.
Like the old saying:
"MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO"
You really didn't read some posts in this thread. It's about a company ( Blizzard ), which they didn't do this before. Plus , it's not only about HS. Their , yet to release MOBA game, HoTS will have the same business model as HS ( http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1002/feature/9027/An-Awesome-But-Poorly-Monetized-Game.html ), so it has nothing to do with HS , being a TGC game.
And, seriously , what is WoW have to do with ... this? I don't play WoW ( played causal from time to time along the years ) , so .. your comment is .. a wannabe "I told you so" , comment, which .. it does not belong here. Please try again ..
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Well I have played TCG games for years so I found HS quite easy and got all the cards I wanted within a reasonable time without buying any.
I am totally crap at fast combat games espacially MOBAs so I expect to find it a lot harder and slower to progress in HOTS. I will likely be a hinderance to every team I am on, and my progress will depend on how well the game rewards the loser of each match.
And these are the payment models I prefer. The ones that reward skill.
I got all HS cards and I still lose, but it doesnt bother me because I always make my own decks AND do silly deck types like:
- Having all taunt creatures
- Deck with only creatures that cost 1-2 mana
- Murlocko deck which I made and has only murlocks and creatures that give +1 attack to all creatures, etc
- Only legendaries deck
- Only stealth creatures deck
etc, etc
The game is all about fun, even if you dont care about losing.
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It's like saying : Hey , look at Greece , they won the EURO cup in 2004, so everything is possible.
While is it true, that some guy reached legendary rank with basic deck , don't be naive , not to believe that this is.. a special case! We are not ignoring the facts , we are reveling that HS is a P2W game , or .. how the new trend is saying "pay to skip grind" .
Still , I am all aware that there are also lots of people who enjoy HS no matter what , and good for them. To each his own.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Played about a week, and I wholly agree. This game is pure P2W garbage. Bring back games we have to buy in order to play, with equal opportunities progression.
It's also one of those trending zero-sum games in which if you're having fun, your opponent doesn't, and vice-versa.
Blizzard has become extremely cancerous and needs to die.
The free basic decks have not reached legendary rank. Cannot remeber the exact details but fairly sure he used gold from quests or winning games to buy packs.
I'm missing about 5 legendary cards for full card collection - BUT I hit legend rank with a deck that had 0 legendary and 0 epics in it (even though I have access to those so called "pay 2 win" cards).
The game is far from being pay to win and people who think it is are just making an excuse for not knowing how to make optimal decks/plays
as for the 100 gold limit/day - since they implemented that I reached the cap once - and I still have almost all the cards (except for a few useless legendary cards).
Start learning the game (if you want to get better) instead of trying to find "reasons" why you don't win.
What TCG is not P2W?
Go ahead, I'll get comfortable and make a sandwich for myself, while I wait for a answer that will never come.
TCG's, have been, and always will be, he who buys the most card will have an advantage.
Bla bla bla. In 2 days I managed to get to rank 15 with no legendary on me. In the 4 day, I managed to get to level 6 in arena , so I am pretty sure that if I would play longer, I would get to know the game better.
But I don't want that, in a P2W game.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
"Bla blab bla." is a very compelling argument, sadly I can't counter such a strong point.
Ummmmm, I don't think that anyone is saying that HS isn't a P2W game. What is it that you're revealing exactly?
Here's the thing, though. Why don't you go down to your local comic book store, tell them that you played 10 games of Magic at home today with some friends, and you'd like a free pack of cards now. See what they say to you. Perspective........ Perspective.
Fact: You can get packs of cards for free. This doesn't mean that someone can't just buy a thousand packs of cards and destroy you, but you can remain competitive as a free player, which is kinda nice for casuals.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Go red
Now it seems there are 3 things which we are debating ( or more? ):
1) HS is P2W
2) HS is not P2W
3) .. whats wrong with P2W ?
PS: If I am going to the store, and pay 20E for a game, then I can play the hell out of that game whatever, whenever, and to whoever I want. Stop with this real life comparations!
EDIT: I have a question to those who said that HS is not P2W. Tell me, how much money did you pay in HS?
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Ok, well you can play the hell out of HS wherever, whenever, with whoever you want for FREE!!! You can have fireside games with friends in the same general location as you, which basically means that you are able to do things like have real life tournaments, etc. quite simply and easily, just like a real life trading card game. This is free, no investment required. Unless you want to. In which case, the more money you invest, yes, the greater cards you are able to obtain.
In response to your other questions. Here's the logic behind each argument (all of which are relevant).
1) HS is P2W because you can invest money to advance more your position in the game, or the cards that you have more quickly than those who are playing for free.
2) HS is NOT P2W because you CANNOT buy a card in the store or get cards in a card pack which are any better than someone who would buy that same card pack using in-game currency. Additionally, there is a CAP to the number of cards you can have in your deck, meaning that there is a ceiling to the number of cards you can even own. This means that once the F2P player has obtained all cards, there is no advantage that the person buying the packs can purchase. So it's not TECHNICALLY P2W because the "ceiling" is the same for both free and paid players. In the short-term, though, you are able to create superior decks, more quickly, by purchasing cards.
3) leading to the next point. There's nothing wrong with providing accelerated advancement in exchange for money as long as the ceiling is the same, and it is. You cannot buy yourself a card that will win you the game.
Also, what others have eluded to here, there are some basic decks which are actually very powerful, and annoying, which contain no legendaries. Just check out hearthhead.
So I guess I contradicted myself there. No Hearthstone is not technically P2W, but it's not unlike many others that people confuse as P2W because it offers accelerated advancement. Those of us playing since the beginning, though, probably have nearly full binders, whether you're playing free or not.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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