Improperly charged credit cards

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

I have no idea if it is a result of their continued incompetence or if it was some evil plan, but instead of granting the FREE TIME they promised they had added to Patron accounts last month, they charged my CC today for $14.99

When I previously logged into the game it said my patron status was good until Nov 20th

They charged me anyway.. and my account now shows it's "good" until Dec 19th

I have been playing the game (with a sub) despite their issues, but this is too much. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's just another mistake (in a long line of them) or if there was malicious intent to take an extra month sub before people cancel. They now have messed with my money and no game is worth that.

I will be immediately deleting my CC info after cancelling my sub and will never give TRION access to that information again for any game,

JeffSpicoli · October 2014

This was why i deleted my CC information off their website a few weeks ago. They seemed to have used shady tactics from day one when those insane 150 dollar packs were beiing advertised as exclusive only to have them sold right through release.

ohioastro · October 2014

There is a 42 page thread on the official forums on this. Apparently they revoked the 30 days for a lot of people, and are now promising to fix it in the future. It's really unclear, actually, what is going on - but a lot of folks after the most recent patch got told their accounts had expired.

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?92786-First-give-us-a-free-month-for-the-disaster-start...-then-take-it-away-again

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

In my case they didn't revoke Patron.. they improperly charged my card $14.99 instead of using the "free" time we were promised. Now my sub shows I have 1 month + 30 days. That's ridiculous and I consider it stealing if it was intentionally done, or utter ineptitude if it was not intended.

I cancelled my acct after making the OP, but have not deleted my CC as I don't know how they would refund the charge if I did that. If they don't refund it by the end of the week I will contest the charge with my CC company.

thinktank001 · October 2014

I could have sworn I saw a reddit post from Hartman, stating that they would be testing the subscription cycling during maintence. Shouldn't this have been caught then?

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I have no idea if it is a result of their continued incompetence or if it was some evil plan, but instead of granting the FREE TIME they promised they had added to Patron accounts last month, they charged my CC today for $14.99

When I previously logged into the game it said my patron status was good until Nov 20th

They charged me anyway.. and my account now shows it's "good" until Dec 19th

I have been playing the game (with a sub) despite their issues, but this is too much. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's just another mistake (in a long line of them) or if there was malicious intent to take an extra month sub before people cancel. They now have messed with my money and no game is worth that.

I will be immediately deleting my CC info after cancelling my sub and will never give TRION access to that information again for any game,

It's an error - it happened to me when I played Aion - happened to me in Rift, happened to me in DAoC as well.

Malicious intent??? That's just ludicrous - because every time this happens they lose a customer and they get smacked with chargeback fees from credit card company when the player calls to have the charges reversed.

Do you honestly think for a single second that this was intentional???

Like companies intentionally are trying to lose money?

Normally no, but this is not the first time they had an issue. Also, it APPEARS to be very suspicious when I open a support ticket 3 weeks ago saying there was a mismatch on the account (and thousands of others). Their support team ignore the ticket (still open), the CM says they know about it and don't worry. Then they charge your account anyway and add the 30 "free" days to it after the charge.

Also they are not AUTOMATICALLY reversing the charge. Now they want everyone to open separate tickets (though they still didn't resolve my initial one). Why would they force people to do that? It's their "mistake" and they should be able to see who they wrongly billed and automatically reverse them. Could it be that they know some percent (perhaps a large one) of people will never open a ticket?

Seems to strain the edge of credibility at every turn.

Jabas · October 2014

Not saying it cant hapened to me but i have done this way:

- Add new payment method

- Pay what i need

- Delete payment method

I really dont like keep payment method where then dont even ask for some password or any secury way, just press buy and its done, really dont like it.

Callidor · October 2014

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by thunderC
This was why i deleted my CC information off their website a few weeks ago. They seemed to have used shady tactics from day one when those insane 150 dollar packs were beiing advertised as exclusive only to have them sold right through release.

The CC information is stored on 3rd party database - no game company actually keeps any CC info other then name and last 4 numbers - it's against PCI compliance.

Trion doesn't know your CC number - nor does Blizzard/SoE/Zenimax - none of them keep full CC number.

They all do the same thing - they pass it off to secure billing company that actually has systems to keep full CC numbers - and they have a secure code that they associate with your account that is only exchanged between the game company and the billing company.

So when for example Trion wants to charge you $15 - they send the secure code to billing company that decodes it and says oh - this is customer John Doe and we have his CC number on file that we will bill in the name of Trion.

That's how it works.

When you delete your CC info - all you are deleting is the "secure code" between the game company and billing company as well as your name - the CC number doesn't get deleted as the game company never had it to begin with.

Always delete your payment method, Trion has a bad track record. There was also an issue with peoples cards being charged 150 for the AA founders pack without authorization. After reading several complain threads, I made sure they didnt have my CC info anymore, especially when they tried to tell me they wouldnt refund my money after the disastrous prelaunch. I got my chargeback and double checked, no triple checked that they no longer had my CC info. Trion is not to be trusted.

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

Originally posted by Jabas
Not saying it cant hapened to me but i have done this way:

- Add new payment method

- Pay what i need

- Delete payment method

I really dont like keep payment method where then dont even ask for some password or any secury way, just press buy and its done, really dont like it.

I usually do that, but to do that you had to cancel your subscription (cannot delete a payment method for an active sub). I assumed that by doing that, there was a high likelihood of it causing issues with the "free" 30 days they granted. So I foolishly left it but opened the ticket.

Hey, let's admit that $15 is a tiny amount, but it all comes down to trust. As I said their they are continually and utterly incompetent or there was a malicious purpose. Neither makes me want to trust these people again.

Betaguy · October 2014

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I have no idea if it is a result of their continued incompetence or if it was some evil plan, but instead of granting the FREE TIME they promised they had added to Patron accounts last month, they charged my CC today for $14.99

When I previously logged into the game it said my patron status was good until Nov 20th

They charged me anyway.. and my account now shows it's "good" until Dec 19th

I have been playing the game (with a sub) despite their issues, but this is too much. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's just another mistake (in a long line of them) or if there was malicious intent to take an extra month sub before people cancel. They now have messed with my money and no game is worth that.

I will be immediately deleting my CC info after cancelling my sub and will never give TRION access to that information again for any game,

It's an error - it happened to me when I played Aion - happened to me in Rift, happened to me in DAoC as well.

Malicious intent??? That's just ludicrous - because every time this happens they lose a customer and they get smacked with chargeback fees from credit card company when the player calls to have the charges reversed.

Do you honestly think for a single second that this was intentional???

Like companies intentionally are trying to lose money?

Normally no, but this is not the first time they had an issue. Also, it APPEARS to be very suspicious when I open a support ticket 3 weeks ago saying there was a mismatch on the account (and thousands of others). Their support team ignore the ticket (still open), the CM says they know about it and don't worry. Then they charge your account anyway and add the 30 "free" days to it after the charge.

Also they are not AUTOMATICALLY reversing the charge. Now they want everyone to open separate tickets (though they still didn't resolve my initial one). Why would they force people to do that? It's their "mistake" and they should be able to see who they wrongly billed and automatically reverse them. Could it be that they know some percent (perhaps a large one) of people will never open a ticket?

Seems to strain the edge of credibility at every turn.

They did it because of people like me. I wouldn't even notice 14.99 and they will end up getting to keep it while they refund those who do catch it. Free money making corporate tactic honestly, been happening for years.

Jabas · October 2014

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by Jabas
Not saying it cant hapened to me but i have done this way:

- Add new payment method

- Pay what i need

- Delete payment method

I really dont like keep payment method where then dont even ask for some password or any secury way, just press buy and its done, really dont like it.

I usually do that, but to do that you had to cancel your subscription (cannot delete a payment method for an active sub). I assumed that by doing that, there was a high likelihood of it causing issues with the "free" 30 days they granted. So I foolishly left it but opened the ticket.

Hey, let's admit that $15 is a tiny amount, but it all comes down to trust. As I said their they are continually and utterly incompetent or there was a malicious purpose. Neither makes me want to trust these people again.

Well, i do it and didnt had any issues untill now, just pay 1 month and cancel the payment model, when need to pay again add again. But i change to buy patron with credits atm because i found it cheaper so i left the subscription model.

Doesnt matter if its only 1euro, we didnt give permissions to charge so its a problem that Trion must solve, i dont trust in Trion system anyway so i'll keep my method hope to not having that kind of issues because if i dont have a payment method and they still charge something by mistake, then thats a huge problem closer to "criminal" issue.

Mightyking · October 2014

I've seen this happening with more companies over the last few years. I've also seen that more and more companies set subscriptions to recurring automatically. In my opinion this last practice needs to stop right now.

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

Per their CM we have to open a ticket (I did) or Live Chat to get the refund for the subs that they improperly charged. That's total bullshit because they screwed up, they can fix it without thousands of people creating tickets.

I still don't have my original ticket answered from 3 weeks ago, but went ahead and filled out another one.

I am now also on hold for "live" support. Been on for 2 hrs and 10 minutes. Timer currently says 2 hours left. Of course that would be closing in on 6PM here, and I'd rather go home instead of sitting here at work for an extra hour (or more...)

Utter incompetence or malicious plan?

Slapshot1188 · October 2014

Decided to wait....

Now #1 in queue.

Curra · October 2014

Well I was quite enjoying the game until now. Will contact my CC Company tomorrow and reverse
the charge and I guess that's it for me and AA. I also had a lot of trouble with Glyph being
open and not being able to open my e-mail to get the code they sent to access my account.
Finally, after 9 tries got in !

Callidor · October 2014

Originally posted by An4thor
Originally posted by Callidor
Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by thunderC
This was why i deleted my CC information off their website a few weeks ago. They seemed to have used shady tactics from day one when those insane 150 dollar packs were beiing advertised as exclusive only to have them sold right through release.

The CC information is stored on 3rd party database - no game company actually keeps any CC info other then name and last 4 numbers - it's against PCI compliance.

Trion doesn't know your CC number - nor does Blizzard/SoE/Zenimax - none of them keep full CC number.

They all do the same thing - they pass it off to secure billing company that actually has systems to keep full CC numbers - and they have a secure code that they associate with your account that is only exchanged between the game company and the billing company.

So when for example Trion wants to charge you $15 - they send the secure code to billing company that decodes it and says oh - this is customer John Doe and we have his CC number on file that we will bill in the name of Trion.

That's how it works.

When you delete your CC info - all you are deleting is the "secure code" between the game company and billing company as well as your name - the CC number doesn't get deleted as the game company never had it to begin with.

But it's AA. The haters have to use it as another reason to hate the game. If it was a game they loved, they would be defending it as a simple error.

Business as usual for MMORPG players. *groan*

Thats a broad generalization, which youre saying wouldnt work both ways. Isnt that bit of white knighting a bit hypocritical?

You call everyone that likes AA whitenight, who is generalizing? ^^ Just leave already, we got it that you don't like the game.

incorrect sir, I applaud people who like the game, just not the folks who would spin its obvious faults in a misguided attempt to lure people into AA under false pretense. If Ive saved just one person from the long queue time in the quest for a refund, I consider it a favor to my fellow gamers.

Bad.dog · October 2014

Originally posted by Curra
Well I was quite enjoying the game until now. Will contact my CC Company tomorrow and reverse
the charge and I guess that's it for me and AA. I also had a lot of trouble with Glyph being
open and not being able to open my e-mail to get the code they sent to access my account.
Finally, after 9 tries got in !

Seems by all the post I've read all the charges were reversed earlier today any response to this ?

sancher36 · October 2014

Trion had automatically reversed the CC charge here without me needing to contact them. Now the one thing they cannot refund is my bank charging me for currency conversion for the payment and then again on the refund. Basically almost $1 in bank charges all for this stuffup.

fivoroth · October 2014

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by thunderC
This was why i deleted my CC information off their website a few weeks ago. They seemed to have used shady tactics from day one when those insane 150 dollar packs were beiing advertised as exclusive only to have them sold right through release.

The CC information is stored on 3rd party database - no game company actually keeps any CC info other then name and last 4 numbers - it's against PCI compliance.

Trion doesn't know your CC number - nor does Blizzard/SoE/Zenimax - none of them keep full CC number.

They all do the same thing - they pass it off to secure billing company that actually has systems to keep full CC numbers - and they have a secure code that they associate with your account that is only exchanged between the game company and the billing company.

So when for example Trion wants to charge you $15 - they send the secure code to billing company that decodes it and says oh - this is customer John Doe and we have his CC number on file that we will bill in the name of Trion.

That's how it works.

When you delete your CC info - all you are deleting is the "secure code" between the game company and billing company as well as your name - the CC number doesn't get deleted as the game company never had it to begin with.

That's not exactly how it works. You are right that none of those companies store your full CC information. That much is correct. However, they don't pass that information on to some third party secure billing company (usually it's Visa/Mastercard/Amex who offer this). The merchant (in this case Trion) creates a token with your credit card provider/bank and that token is valid only for certain purposes. But Trion don't actually have your full CC information. When you delete a credit card information, you are deleting that token (probably that's the word you were looking for, it's called a payment token).

However, that still doesn't change the fact that they can charge your credit card against your will (like what Trion has done in the past with the founders packs). OF course, you can always call your bank or credit card provider and do a charge back. Enough people do a chargeback, a bank/credit card provider may decide to blacklist a merchant.

[Deleted User] · October 2014

The user and all related content has been deleted.

JJ82 · October 2014

Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I have no idea if it is a result of their continued incompetence or if it was some evil plan.

Trion has a history of doing this going all the way back to the early days of Rift and you can still occasionally find a thread on the Rift forums about this happening today. One of the many reasons why I was sad when it was announced that Trion would be converting AA here.

An4thor · October 2014

Do people really leave their cc info on their profiles?.. I mean really?... Trion screws up are one thing; but even you should be a little bit more careful.

With all the people complaining about their account stolen, after using the same password on all websites, this is probably the second worst thing you can do to protect your data and money.

FearTHeFro · October 2014

Is anyone else not able to cancel their subscription on the trion website? I'm just done with this game it was clearly a failure, but really don't want to be charged 15 dollars a month the next time my sub ends. I just get some black screen that says "are you sure you want to cancel your sub" and then i literally don't see a yes or a no and can't click anything. really its just laughable. I removed my credit card information from the website but I don't know if that will stop it from charging me the sub.

breadm1x · October 2014

Same here, got an email few days back that my patron status ended.

Last time i looked at it it sad patron till 20 november.

Not that i care mutch since i quit this crappy pile of shit 2 weeks after playing :P

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