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Is button mashing MMO suited for PC?
CalmOceans
Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
MMO have turned into action button mashing lately. And by lately I mean the last 5 years or so.
Trinity and grouping has been thrown out the window by many MMO and you end up with gameplay that is highly reliant on individual action and button mashing.
It might not be evident to newer MMO players, but the amount of clicks people do on their mouse, keyboard and movements with their mice is way higher than it was, compared to say Everquest. Older games were about coordination and strategy, it didn't require hotkeying 20 buttons (it did much later on, but EQ changed drastically).
It seems to me that a keyboard & mouse doesn't seem the most intuitive platform for button mashing. I heard of ppl getting carpel tunnel through gaming, wrist injury. I heard of ppl using gamepads, which defeats the whole idea of a PC.
Does it make sense to you?
Comments
It gets pretty difficult the older you get, is all I can say. I think a game like Wildstar, for example would definitely be limited to the under 40 crowd. I just would not even consider that type of game anymore. A controller definitely makes life easier, in that you can get in a nice relaxing position and then just control away. With a PC and mouse it seems you have to contort this way and that, usually in an uncomfortable position, for extended periods in an MMO. I get that you have greater control, but in a button mashing game that control comes at a painful price for the mature gamer.
JMO of course.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I find the move to action combat sickening. With faster combat comes fast health regeneration , less socializing , more soloing , bunny hopping..etc. It is pathetic.
ESO is about the limit for me. It isnt terribly fast and classes do have roles but not as heavily as older MMOs. And I can go as slow as I want because of how much exploration I can do. Just enough group content to keep you busy ( not enough IMO ).
Looking at Landmark and EQN. I already play Landmark and find the combat ridiculous so I do not expect much out of EQN but I will try it anyway.
What gets me is jumping between mouse buttons and the keyboard. The whole right-hand side of my keyboard is useless because the mouse must be used. That leaves a cramped left-hand side of my keyboard where I can easily hit the wrong key at the wrong time.
Back in old EQ, WoW, and CoH, I used my right hand on my number pad for my skills/spells/songs/abilities. It was slow. It was comfortable. It "felt right."
But... I am old
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I only use keyboard + mouse.
I am not interested in games that are too action focused. Vampire: Bloodlines and Diablo 2 already scratched that border very hard. Mass Effect already crossed it.
So yeah, not interested in "button mashing" either way, so meh.
I feel if a game is action focused, there should be fewer total skills available in combat. That way, there is no need for a ton of different buttons and macros.
Slower paced games should be able to have a wider variety of skills available.
I think as long as people have the right kind of hardware to handle it, as well as the hand and finger dexterity necessary to play such a game, action combat has a place on PC, and in MMOs.
I haven't had any problems with more actiony games on PC. If anything, my pvp skills have soared (love Tera for that).
Jdizzle said it correctly though, a more actiony game should require less buttons. And it seems they do.
However, for the record, I use a naga mouse and that has solved my 1-12 button use quite nicely.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It make perfect sense to me.
1) Action combat is obviously fun for many.
2) Mouse + keyboard suits *some* but not all types of action combat. For example, Diablo-ish action combat can be done with mouse + keyboard very well. Not only you get tactical thinking (do it or do i not use the CD right now?) but also have to carry out the action.
3) I am all for using gamepads. Why is that defeat the idea of a PC? In fact, the whole idea of a PC is to be versatile, and can use multiple input devices (like joysticks, and flight pads in flight sims decades ago). Personally i use a gamepad on PC games whenever I can. They are better in controlling 3D action although i still prefer a mouse + keyboard for diablo type games.
How does a gamepad defeat the whole idea of a PC?
When I play a shooter I use my mouse and keyboard.
When I play a driving game I use my steering wheel and pedals.
When I play an air combat game, I use my stick and rudder pedals
etc. etc.
You see the magic of the PC is that you can use and you can make anything.
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/components/interface-it/
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
In all honestly, if you compare old DAoC with those modern games (like GW2, ESO or Tera, which are considered more actiony) you do have less abilities, less clicking and less hectic movement most of the time.
There was no global cooldown in DAoC and abilities could be fired every 0.7 sec(as much as i remember that was the fastest cap), whereas you had to move to get your positionals out, or dodge/block(that was auto, but you had to position you), or movement and positioning in general as healers or casters. Of course all that was within PvP.. in PvE you could be as slowly as you wished.. with some classes you could basicly do nothing and just chat with your group. But in pvp it was a lot more button mashing in comparsion to all those so called actiony MMOs of today.
Other games with global cooldowns of 1.5 sec and above(like WoW) were a lot slower in comparsion, and the required skills were reduced, too.
Having a variety of games and systems is the best thing
Sometimes I want to relax and drink a coffee while I play, and sometimes the fast action with 5 buttons is just plain fun
PC's are great because they give us choices of what we personally like best unless the game itself restricts us.
You can even make the interface of your dreams.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
In Darkfall I had 100 skills/spells and I needed instant access to most of them during high level combat.
I could access most of those with Function Key then number key of action with one hand.
It was hard...it was fun.
Having suffered from RSI in the past (not actually gaming related), it's something I do take very seriously, and it's something devs ought to take into consideration. Having an auto-attack is definitely a plus, though I will play more actiony games from time to time. In moderation!
Much as Black Desert looks pretty, I'm a bit concerned about how hectic the combat controls will be.
My problem with the action style of MMO isn't about the control interface, it's more the design decisions being made. When I wanted to play something fast paced and action oriented I'd play a FPS game. When I wanted to relax, take in the scenery and play something slower I'd play an MMO.
Unfortunately it's becoming more and more difficult to find MMO's that conform to that older style of play now. Action combat seems to be the latest thing MMO devs are trying, to see how big an audience they can get. The other thing that's unfortunate is the effect this action combat has on play session times. With older MMO's I could quite happily log in and stay on for hours. These action MMO's not so much, after an hour or so I find I need a break. I don't find them encouraging long play sessions which, for MMO's, is something that you sometimes need to do if you plan on doing raids and such.
My opinion on button mashing in general is a poor one, regardless of platform or genre. Not a fan of quick time events and such. Poor, lazy game design in my opinion.
My favorite MMO was LOTRO with the Loremaster class. Nothing has ever come close...
and that's because it had true variety in play. You'd first pick your pet (a bear to tank, a crow to disorient, lynx to DPS, eagle for buffs) and that instantly changed your style... then there was sooo much you could do in terms of abilities.
You had aggressive, high damage spells with slows, stuns, heals, gifting power, aoe, etc. It was everything in one and you had to use that variety in all fights.
I remember having 15 or so key binds that were actually regularly used and that's why I loved it!
I tried playing a hunter and I would just be pressing 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2... next fight, etc. Such a huge difference.
So I'm really disappointed to see games like GW2 where you have 5 keys to use (and switching weapons). I just thought... what the hell is this!? How can it possibly retain an interest to the degree of the Loremaster when there is so little variety in play?
It's the same with FPS... the old arena shooters, you had 10+ weapons with multiple fire modes and you'd have to make use of all of them at some point, vs the now CoD class based 2 weapons, a knife and some grenades.
I find age has affected my interest and I feel that I've "been there, done that" but I just can't see myself getting into something unless it has some variety in it's play. Slowing things down would be no good for me.
In truth, in age comes responsibility and you just don't have the time to play and so can't compete with youngsters/students who spend all day playing the game. If I had all day and the same motivation... it would be no problem!
Basically this .. i am not limited to a gamepad (like the console) or keyboard + mouse. Now only if it has touch screens ....
That's a very good point.