Originally posted by Spankster77 Free to play. I honestly think this trend has damaged the overall MMO genre.
This.... and like three more aspects following on a very close second place. But you asked for one. This is the one.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The thing Perfect world have where you click on a quest and you automatically run to where you need to be.
Worst feature ever, takes away any kind of exploration of the game. There are many other annoying things but that one is the worst.
I get that's your opinion, that's fine and all, but I don't quite get how it would ruin a game, as it's optional,no different than hitting auto run on your num-lock which every mmo I've played had as well as Skyrim... Seems more a convenience tool more or less to me for long hikes (carpel tunnel). Kinda quirky reason IMO. As well as "annoying thing" to vote as the worst.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The thing Perfect world have where you click on a quest and you automatically run to where you need to be.
Worst feature ever, takes away any kind of exploration of the game. There are many other annoying things but that one is the worst.
I get that's your opinion, that's fine and all, but I don't quite get how it would ruin a game, as it's optional,no different than hitting auto run on your num-lock which every mmo I've played had as well as Skyrim... Seems more a convenience tool more or less to me for long hikes (carpel tunnel). Kinda quirky reason IMO. As well as "annoying thing" to vote as the worst.
Because almost everyone else is auto running from one place to another so people are either standing in a few limited places and fighting or just autorunning without paying any attention to what happens around then. It makes most of the game world feel like empty eye candy and me feeling alone. It also takes away that old MMO thing where finding something is an important part of the quests but that have been going downhill for a long time now.
They could as well just let you automatically teleport between questgivers and the questarea.
Now allowing people to autorun or teleport between cities or zones doesn't really bother me but here you just click a button between combat and nothing more and I feel it takes away a lot of what MMOs really are.
I cannot stand the new trend in mmo moving to single bar for abilities. I know a lot of people dislike SWTOR and the need to have two full ability bars, but I love it. It allows for some diversity in combat instead of 1,1,2,1,3,1,1,4 and repeat. Every single-bar game I have foolishly purchased or downloaded was uninstalled within a month, two at the very most. Just does not have the longevity for me once I hit the "every fight feels EXACTLY the same" this happens about half way to cap in these games for me.
Great thread though, forced me to think of what I hated most. Now that I have pinpointed it I will just skip all "action" combat mmos in the future. Wow might have to be shelved if the trend of removing abilities continues, I don't play MOBAs.
I also like to have a lot of abilities to use, makes the combat more fun to have options instead of just having few. Even the very rarely used abilities are nice, the character feels more deep. Also sometimes it's just nice to fool around with some abilities.
I think that single hotbar with only few active abilities is one reason that hastens my boredom in mmorpgs, the character feels way too simple, even if you can respec or change hotbars like in ESO, it's a big downside.
i think you guys are missing one important aspect of hotbar based mmos. I also like to have at least 2-3 hotbars on my screen but i also like a single one if done properly. The problem is that some single hotbar games do it wrong (Wildstar) where you only have 2 usefull offensive skills and the rest is utilities so you spam 1 and 2. On the other hand, you have games like Rift with many action bars and the ability to build a class with 3 different souls..... BUT the overall build only has like 3 usefull skills and the bagillion skills left are the exact same skill you already use but with a different name, visuals, and description. That is not variety, thats wasting resources, and you still end up spamming 1 and 2, sometimes 3 and 4. The same goes for TSW with 500 skills and more than half are useless.
Now, what do those games have in common? they are all built with the WoW Rogue in mind and took it to an extreme. Everything is based on build/finisher spam so no matter how many or how few action bars you have on screen and skills to choose from, you will still spam 1, 2, and sometimes 3,4. It is bad class design that has nothing to do with the size of the action bar. Out of all the mmos that offer many skills (and action bars) to use, very few have decent and useful skill variety to fill an entire action bar, let alone more... and yes, WoW is one of those few. And even they are eliminating some useless skills.
If the skills of a class are entirely useful, all of them... then the size of the hotbar doesnt matter because its all about your personal build, not whats the best skill for your class for a specific activity (dungeon, pvp, raid).
TL:DR: hotbar size doesnt matter if the skills are useless. Blame bad class design.
i think you guys are missing one important aspect of hotbar based mmos. I also like to have at least 2-3 hotbars on my screen but i also like a single one if done properly. The problem is that some single hotbar games do it wrong (Wildstar) where you only have 2 usefull offensive skills and the rest is utilities so you spam 1 and 2. On the other hand, you have games like Rift with many action bars and the ability to build a class with 3 different souls..... BUT the overall build only has like 3 usefull skills and the bagillion skills left are the exact same skill you already use but with a different name, visuals, and description. That is not variety, thats wasting resources, and you still end up spamming 1 and 2, sometimes 3 and 4. The same goes for TSW with 500 skills and more than half are useless.
Now, what do those games have in common? they are all built with the WoW Rogue in mind and took it to an extreme. Everything is based on build/finisher spam so no matter how many or how few action bars you have on screen and skills to choose from, you will still spam 1, 2, and sometimes 3,4. It is bad class design that has nothing to do with the size of the action bar. Out of all the mmos that offer many skills (and action bars) to use, very few have decent and useful skill variety to fill an entire action bar, let alone more... and yes, WoW is one of those few. And even they are eliminating some useless skills.
If the skills of a class are entirely useful, all of them... then the size of the hotbar doesnt matter because its all about your personal build, not whats the best skill for your class for a specific activity (dungeon, pvp, raid).
TL:DR: hotbar size doesnt matter if the skills are useless. Blame bad class design.
If I play swtor, say imperial agent, sniper, the abilities that I actually use are: Cover, cover roll, ambush, snipe, cull, corrosive grenade, frag grenade, stun, repel, shield probe, explosive probe, corrosive dart, finisher, entrench, evasion, dot probe, adrenaline probe, flashbang, overload shot, leg shot, weakening blast, orbital strike, and the default spammable attack.
I propably forgot some, and yes we are talking about abilities that are useful and not just to make a long list, and that counts to 23 + a couple more that I forgot (and some consumables). That's a nice amount and makes you feel like your doing various actions in combat neccessary for victory, depending on the situation a bit.
If an MMO has a feature or mechanic that you absolutely despise, does it make you stop playing? or do you keep going on?
Grind.
I stop playing no matter how fun the other parts of the game is.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have a mmorpg without a grind. Grind means repetitive tasks or content, and if you dont have that in your mmorpg, eventually you have completed all the content and you have basically completed the game, done everything there is to do. Mmorpgs are not supposed to "end" so there has to be grind sooner or later.
If you are talking about leveling grind in form of mob farming, then I agree, I stopped playing TERA back when I tried it, since the leveling felt like never ending slaughter of mob after mob and literally nothing else.
For the past couple of years or so I seem to really have grown to dislike quest hub based gameplay more than ever. Except, for some reason I still give WoW a free pass. Maybe because it was the first MMO (not my first MMO) I played that used it.
For me it's only having the option of mindless quest grinding to level up. I want a game that allows me multiple "equivalent" methods for gaining experience/skills. I want the option of grinding on mobs, running quests, or find something new as well. I like the idea of NOT having quest lines so that if you miss one you can come back later or skip w/o feeling like you missed something.
Don't like games that give you one option to reach max level when questing. Examples, you can't reach max level unless you craft, period because quality of drops and quests rewards are juck. Or open world PVP where a quest spot is eternally camped because you can't continue leveling until you do that major quest in the quest line.
I had few problems with L2 or Aion because the worlds were so big that if an area was being camped there were other zones you could go to and continue to level.
AA you can quest level really well until you hit 30 then the one PVE area on your continent is PVE only for 2 hours at a time, no problem if your doing other stuff but if you're just questing during certain hours everyday it could be days before you caught that open window again.
Yes their are ways around it but why not just provide an alternative solo options? Reading this over I guess you could say I hate forced grouping to do or finish quest lines.
I hate time sinks but will play through if I think the story is good. But won't do so on multiple characters like I usually do.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
For me it's instancing. Putting an artificial cap on how many people I can experience "dangerous" content with is a cop-out imo. Instead of creating grand, multi-path, endless content dungeons of the past, dev continue to create soulless, linear, instanced zones. Why? Because they're more fair (loot wise), easier to optimize (performance wise), and much easier to create. Still waiting on a modern MMO to create old school type dungeons/zones that allow players to properly socialize. Not holding my breath though, non-instanced game play is too risky these days. I don't see this trend ending anytime soon.
Flying mounts. Whoever first thought them up is a moron.
"Hey gusy! I think people interact with each other too much in our MMORPG. We already added instances and instant teleporting, but they still occasionally see other players. How can we fix that? "
Toss up between achievements and forcing people to visit cash shops in game windows.
How the fuck does achievements ruin an mmo for you? Like what?
Because they are annoying and I don't know of a single game where you can turn the notifications off.
I don't care that I've killed 10 boars, eaten 20 apples, or stepped in dragon poop.
I'm trying to play a game and don't need to be reminded that I'm doing things that have no value whatsoever. I'm already doing something that has no value - I'm playing a video game.
Lol! Well this cheered me up!
I would add also the fact that you will never ever complete all of them!!
Nothing ruins an MMO for me except lack of fun. Thats the reason I play and thats the reason I quit.
But perhaps I could add community to that as well. Since that is probably the most important factor in whether I enjoy my time in the world.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
No meaningful crafting and/or economy ruins an MMO for me.
It is a vital part of my personal character progression. I'm a hypocrite tho when it comes to this, because even if I sometimes just don't care about crafting in an mmo... the mere thought that crafting in a game is so badly executed that it's meaningless just destroys it for me. Eve Online, Ryzom and Haven & Heart are some examples that positively come into mind. I know a lot will refer to SWG, which I sadly never got to experience in time
Winning a discussion is not what it's about. If you could pass insight to someone or learn something from it in return - noone can really loose, can they?
Comments
The thing Perfect world have where you click on a quest and you automatically run to where you need to be.
Worst feature ever, takes away any kind of exploration of the game. There are many other annoying things but that one is the worst.
This.... and like three more aspects following on a very close second place. But you asked for one. This is the one.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I get that's your opinion, that's fine and all, but I don't quite get how it would ruin a game, as it's optional,no different than hitting auto run on your num-lock which every mmo I've played had as well as Skyrim... Seems more a convenience tool more or less to me for long hikes (carpel tunnel). Kinda quirky reason IMO. As well as "annoying thing" to vote as the worst.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Because almost everyone else is auto running from one place to another so people are either standing in a few limited places and fighting or just autorunning without paying any attention to what happens around then. It makes most of the game world feel like empty eye candy and me feeling alone. It also takes away that old MMO thing where finding something is an important part of the quests but that have been going downhill for a long time now.
They could as well just let you automatically teleport between questgivers and the questarea.
Now allowing people to autorun or teleport between cities or zones doesn't really bother me but here you just click a button between combat and nothing more and I feel it takes away a lot of what MMOs really are.
i think you guys are missing one important aspect of hotbar based mmos. I also like to have at least 2-3 hotbars on my screen but i also like a single one if done properly. The problem is that some single hotbar games do it wrong (Wildstar) where you only have 2 usefull offensive skills and the rest is utilities so you spam 1 and 2. On the other hand, you have games like Rift with many action bars and the ability to build a class with 3 different souls..... BUT the overall build only has like 3 usefull skills and the bagillion skills left are the exact same skill you already use but with a different name, visuals, and description. That is not variety, thats wasting resources, and you still end up spamming 1 and 2, sometimes 3 and 4. The same goes for TSW with 500 skills and more than half are useless.
Now, what do those games have in common? they are all built with the WoW Rogue in mind and took it to an extreme. Everything is based on build/finisher spam so no matter how many or how few action bars you have on screen and skills to choose from, you will still spam 1, 2, and sometimes 3,4. It is bad class design that has nothing to do with the size of the action bar. Out of all the mmos that offer many skills (and action bars) to use, very few have decent and useful skill variety to fill an entire action bar, let alone more... and yes, WoW is one of those few. And even they are eliminating some useless skills.
If the skills of a class are entirely useful, all of them... then the size of the hotbar doesnt matter because its all about your personal build, not whats the best skill for your class for a specific activity (dungeon, pvp, raid).
TL:DR: hotbar size doesnt matter if the skills are useless. Blame bad class design.
Grind.
I stop playing no matter how fun the other parts of the game is.
If I play swtor, say imperial agent, sniper, the abilities that I actually use are: Cover, cover roll, ambush, snipe, cull, corrosive grenade, frag grenade, stun, repel, shield probe, explosive probe, corrosive dart, finisher, entrench, evasion, dot probe, adrenaline probe, flashbang, overload shot, leg shot, weakening blast, orbital strike, and the default spammable attack.
I propably forgot some, and yes we are talking about abilities that are useful and not just to make a long list, and that counts to 23 + a couple more that I forgot (and some consumables). That's a nice amount and makes you feel like your doing various actions in combat neccessary for victory, depending on the situation a bit.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have a mmorpg without a grind. Grind means repetitive tasks or content, and if you dont have that in your mmorpg, eventually you have completed all the content and you have basically completed the game, done everything there is to do. Mmorpgs are not supposed to "end" so there has to be grind sooner or later.
If you are talking about leveling grind in form of mob farming, then I agree, I stopped playing TERA back when I tried it, since the leveling felt like never ending slaughter of mob after mob and literally nothing else.
I'm a Gamer not a Player!
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Don't like games that give you one option to reach max level when questing. Examples, you can't reach max level unless you craft, period because quality of drops and quests rewards are juck. Or open world PVP where a quest spot is eternally camped because you can't continue leveling until you do that major quest in the quest line.
I had few problems with L2 or Aion because the worlds were so big that if an area was being camped there were other zones you could go to and continue to level.
AA you can quest level really well until you hit 30 then the one PVE area on your continent is PVE only for 2 hours at a time, no problem if your doing other stuff but if you're just questing during certain hours everyday it could be days before you caught that open window again.
Yes their are ways around it but why not just provide an alternative solo options? Reading this over I guess you could say I hate forced grouping to do or finish quest lines.
I hate time sinks but will play through if I think the story is good. But won't do so on multiple characters like I usually do.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I love that forum avatar, lmao!
If you have to stand still and fight I don't care what they call it its boaring crap !
After teaching Kung Fu for 27 years standing still and fighting kills any feel of action, realism, or fun.
I don't care how pretty awesome scarry it looks if I caint move and fight forget it.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/At the moment, labor points sound like a horrible idea...
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Flying mounts. Whoever first thought them up is a moron.
"Hey gusy! I think people interact with each other too much in our MMORPG. We already added instances and instant teleporting, but they still occasionally see other players. How can we fix that? "
Casual friendliness I hate most.
(Followed by solo friendliness and cash shops.)
I hate WoW and what it has done to the MMO genre.
Lol! Well this cheered me up!
I would add also the fact that you will never ever complete all of them!!
Nothing ruins an MMO for me except lack of fun. Thats the reason I play and thats the reason I quit.
But perhaps I could add community to that as well. Since that is probably the most important factor in whether I enjoy my time in the world.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
No meaningful crafting and/or economy ruins an MMO for me.
It is a vital part of my personal character progression. I'm a hypocrite tho when it comes to this, because even if I sometimes just don't care about crafting in an mmo... the mere thought that crafting in a game is so badly executed that it's meaningless just destroys it for me. Eve Online, Ryzom and Haven & Heart are some examples that positively come into mind. I know a lot will refer to SWG, which I sadly never got to experience in time
Winning a discussion is not what it's about. If you could pass insight to someone or learn something from it in return - noone can really loose, can they?