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The Use of Magic
Chinspinner
Member Posts: 31
I find Magic to be an often over-used mechanic in many games, and particularly in the glut of fantasy MMORPGs. My dislike of magic is for several reasons: -
- It is a poor alternative to exposition. Rather than writing a coherent and over-arching plot the use of magic enables writers to use the 'it happened because of... magic' excuse for muddled events. It facilitates lazy writing.
- It is often inconsistent. There are so many synonymous events and situations in games, television, film etc where in one instance magic is used to swiftly resolve the situation, and in the next scene the user of magic conveniently forgets their magical abilities in order to enable some laboured plot point. If you are going to have a mechanic such as magic in your piece of work at least resolve its uses and limitations at the outset and make it consistent throughout.
- Magic is simply too readily available. It should be a powerful but rarely used resource that damages its user. People should not be running around throwing fireballs at each other.
- It is rarely used for convenience. If I can summon creatures or throw fireballs or create visions; why can I not command one of them to go tell the NPC that I have finished killing their ten rats for them? Why do I have to walk there myself? Why can I not create a pair of 'Communication Stones' (mobile phones) to talk to those I need to talk to?
I would not see magic removed from games altogether; however, I would just like to see some care and consistency when it is used.
Please share your thoughts.
Comments
This is not a fact at all, it's a preconception based on your personal taste. I personally feel the opposite - magic should be an additional force of nature, so it should be available for everyone just like everyone can use fire and wheels and levers, etc. The genre of fantasy had room for both your preference and mine to be done well.
I partially agree with you that magic facilitates so-called "lazy" thinking and writing(or typing). As with most MMORPGs I've played, the theme of magic, would, more or less, be portrayed.
Example 1:
The king's everlasting obsession with power grew immensely with each passing day, to which point he satisfied it, by absorbing the powers of the ancient orb, <insert random orb name here>, said to grant one powers rivaling that of the creator, <insert random creator name here>, himself. Instead, it turned him, both physically and mentally, into a hideous monstrosity. Now, all of <insert random land name here> weighs upon you, <insert your name here>, the prophesied one, to stop the evil king's tyrannical rule over <insert random land name here>!
Example 2:
First things first! Though you are indeed the prophesied one, how can you even dream of defeating the evil king and bring peace to all of <insert random land name here> when you haven't even gathered and mastered the ancient powers of the 18 elemental magic orbs?
Example 3:
Did you also know that you can use elemental magic to refine the elemental stats of your weapons at a time and cost at the local elemental blacksmith?
Now, see the many uses of magic in my above examples? Please do take note that I am not generalising MMORPGs as a whole, I am only providing my own, personal examples. However, I think the other side of the story is that MMORPGs need magic. Magic is a double-edged sword. It can be powerful and impactful, if used efficiently by a thinking writer, or, be degrading to the term "magic" itself, contrary to what good magic can be of, if used by the utter idiocy of a writer. I feel that magic is needed in MMORPGs, because it provides that amazing, wonderful, and powerful backdrop and setting for a "exposition" to be able to allure players.
I don't think magic being inconsistent is an issue as most things in events and situations in games, television, film etc are inconsistent. Take Pacific Rim for example. Raleigh and Mako only remembered that they had an incredibly powerful sword about two-thirds of the way through the movie to bust the kaiju. Inconsistency is needed most of the time, because of lazy writers who just want to whack in their "laboured" plot point, but, if the "laboured" plot point is good, I don't think there should be an issue with inconsistency.
I don't think magic is too readily available. Most MMORPGs, if not all, have certain restrictions in place to limit the use of magic, such as mana and cooldown times. E.g. World Of Warcraft, Perfect World International, Drakensang Online etc. I do partially like your suggestion that magic "should be a powerful but rarely used resource that damages its user", I feel that it should be powerful, is often used and would also damage it's user. Even if it was too readily available, I think we need magic. It's hard to defeat bosses without magic, even with high level gear. Please do take note that I'm not saying that it's impossible.
I wouldn't want magic to provide convenience as, it would totally take out the "adventure" in playing MMORPGs-controlling your character! I mean, we've lots of convenience already in MMORPGs when we just have to faceroll. Please do take note that I am talking about MMORPGs here, and not MMOARPGs. Besides, autopilot seems to be everywhere nowadays. We're already enjoying lots of convenience, so, I wouldn't want magic to provide convenience.
Of course, I, too, would not want to see magic removed from games altogether; however, I would just like to see more care when it is used.
I always preferred "low magic" settings in fantasy fiction.
I remember the early pen and paper games (D&D), where magic-users were significantly weaker than other characters, took longer to level, and were even very limited in the use of their spells.
Funny that the archetype for wizards in today's games was probably Gandalf the Grey, who employs very subtle magic in The Lord of the Rings trilogy and The Hobbit. Not a lot of fireball flinging going on there.
To each his own. There are others who prefer "high magic" worlds. In the Elder Scrolls games, for instance, every single person can shoot fire out of their hands- from level one!
I wish there was more customization, at least. Every type of caster has the exact same repertoire as every other one of the same type... because balance is king in MMORPGs.
FInally, I do like the paradigm where a caster is damaged by using his or her magic. The greatest spells would require some amount of self-sacrifice and pain.
Will this ever happen in an MMORPG? I would like to think so, but I advise against holding one's breath.
_____________________________
"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
1 & 2. If you're playing MMOs expecting stellar story telling, gtfo now and save yourself some sanity.
3. Pure, unabashed biased opinion on your part and very likely in the minority when it comes to magic as a whole. Powerful magics? Yes, shouldn't be able to be spammed, but a simple fireball or lighting bolt or what have you? Come on now.
4. Are you really equating the mechanics developers use to get players to -spend- time playing the game on magic not making it so one of the ways devs purposefully put into the game to get us players to have to spend time in an effort to extend the game?
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
In most good fantasy books, magic is a rare thing
In my PnP adventures magic was a rare thing
However, these are games, not virtuall worlds, the only fantasy MMo game thats more on track with books and such is still Lotro, however i am a still a strong believer that they never should have added the runekeeper.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I also like a low-magic setting. You need some, or it's not fantasy, but for good medieval fantasy, magic should not replace or make obsolete medieval technology. For instance, magical flight makes medieval cavalry obsolete.
I think an interesting fantasy world would be one where wizards are simply people who know how to communicate and strike deals with magical beings such as ghosts. So, a player could be a knight and command human troops, or a witch who commands an army of goblins.
it varies
in many of the classic books i read by well known authors - magic is abundant
Sword of Truth - Terry Goodkind
the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser series by Fritz Leiber
Elric - Michael Moorcock
Xanth - Piers Anthony
The Incomplete Enchanter - L. Sprague de Camp
you mention you like low magic in your PnP,
I'm the opposite, I like high magic in my RPG pnp
EQ2 fan sites
i agree with you
i think magic is an additional force of nature but everyone will have different tastes / tolerance for magical world themes
EQ2 fan sites
I will also add that magic isn't the lone culprit in bad writing and gameplay mechanics. It may be silly that people are throwing fireballs willy nilly, but it's really no less silly than a "non-magic" using warrior who can charge and stun you, or shout to give himself additional health. Or maybe an assassin who can disappear.
The issues mentioned by the OP are not wrong per se, but i don't think this has anything to do with magic, but just general design and storywriting etc.
If my character can stop the charge of an enemy that ways 200 tons, or jump high nough to hit a flying enemy with a sword, why can't i break down that door or get over that fence?
No magic involved here. But: Everytime the story requires it, my character recalls his supposed strength, agility, intelligence etc. Sometimes i can jump over a fence, sometimes not. And whether you throw fireballs or make 2000 sword slashes in 5 seconds..wheres the difference?
And see the fence example, it's rarely used for convenience. I can jump as high as i have to to hit an enemy, i can cut 2000 tiems before the enemy knows i'm here, i can not only stop, but actually grab and hurl away the equivalent of a blue whale charging with 500 km/h without breaking a sweat...but when the story requires it i am unable to block that one attack from an ordinary soldier, i can't break down that wooden door etc.
Same thing. Lazy design, incoherent use of abilties, bad story writing..or the character is simply to overpowered to get any sort of story going, so he has to be "cut down to size" whenever the story is concerned, while gameplay can go all out. Still bad design though..
Magic is just used as a tool that makes it easier for suspesion of disbelief to take hold, as magic generally allows one to do anything one can imagine, unless otherwise noted. Some settings, like with Tolkien's Middle-Earth have rather harsh limits on magic - even Gandald wouldn't stand a chance against your ordinary level 1 mage, while with D&D you hit "a wizard did it" at every corner, and the hallway between is littered with magic items of such power that they make the One Ring look like child's play.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
MMORPG magic is basically descended from D&D magic and tailored to game play.
Either: if you were a mage in the real world, a lot of spells that you would find very useful have no application in a RPG - like a spell to improve the growth of crops. You would be very popular with farmers.
Or: you would have some useful spells that would break the game. A traditional preoccupation of would-be wizards in the real world is a spell that makes people invulnerable. Good luck getting that implemented in a game. Or what about a spell that magically transfers the coins in someone else's purse into your own?
There is little or no logic to most RPG magic; it's just a matter of what makes a balanced game.
This link may be of interest:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-10-24-video-lets-play-kingdom-come-deliverance
I think magic works fine as long as it's constrained by a set of rules. In the Dresden File for example magic is a great tool, but often it's a lot more complicated and time consuming to do something with magic, when you could just do it a traditional way a lot easier. Like conjuring a fireball takes more effort than just shooting a gun at someone (and catches many magic users by surprise). When magic is constrained in this way it becomes just another tool, and it still makes sense not to use it all the time, because it just isn't always practical.
I don't think limiting magic use works that well in an MMO. If LotR was an mmo and Gandalf a player, he would be kicked out of the raiding group for going afk all the time, and for his shitty dps output.
I enjoyed reading this.
I agree.
Problem is it used to be defined. If you look at classic Ultima games they are defined by reagents and Circles of Magic or if you look at classic AD&D games it is defined by memorizations and spell levels.
However along the way MMO has abandoned that for simplicity sake, which in turn makes casters too prevalent and powerful in games. It wasn't supposed to be like this.
I'm just curious, using WoW as an example, how are casters too prevalent and powerful?
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
High magic, low magic, that's a preference. Like High Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, some will like one or the other. Or both. You can have all sorts of variations as well.
The writing problem is widespread. It's not just games, you find it in movies -- and even in novels. Unfortunately, almost everyone thinks they can write cool stuff. Sadly, not nearly as often the case as supposed.
That's part of the incoherence problem. It stems from poor writing and world building. Not having internal consistency leads to worlds and campaigns that don't make much sense. I find internal consistency leads to much better game immersion. Other folks may just want to blow stuff up. All game design is about trade offs. But good writing isn't that expensive. The big problem is that bad writers in charge don't necessarily even recognize the difference.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
If you've played World of Warcraft, you should know the term, faceroll. As http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=faceroll states, originating (presumably) on the World of Warcraft forums, this is an essentially derogatory concept some people employ that means that all that a certain class must do in order to achieve success in the game is to bind every key on their keyboard to one ability that is perceived to be overpowered, and then continue to roll their face across the keyboard. The notion is that this one ability is so amazingly overpowered in relation to those of other classes, all one has to do is absently spam it as much as possible (and they might as well do it with their face, because there isn't any other use for the big stupid thing on top of their shoulders).
Example:
Priest: waah waah I'm a little bitch
Warrior: Oh stfu
1) bind every key on your keyboard to Flash Heal
2) faceroll
P.S. I don't condone the use of vulgarities, all these are just examples(that included vulgarities) taken from the aforementioned website.
People do not plan. There are two simple rules to modern fiction: -
All i'm hearing is you like novels, but hate episodic content like manga and also some random America hate.
Different forms of literature have different forms for different reasons.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I am a sucker for magic.. In high fantasy. Magic has no place in a tech based game such as space setting or realism. What I really dislike is mixing tech with magic because it feels unnatural to me.. Either use magic or use tech.
I never liked how gnome engineering went overboard and brought advanced machinery, guns, computers, vehicles into a fantasy setting. Some engineering is ok as long as it is not overly tech, like a water wheel driven mechanism to lower the drawbridge is ok, but a robot is not ok. The use of guns in fantasy games always annoyed me aswell, and if you want some reasoning it would be that in a magical world, it would be too easy to trigger explosives and therefore explosives would be a bad choice.
And at the same time magic abilities in your space game or shooter is just wrong.
Either Golems or robots, not both. Either Elves or martians, not both. Either bows or firearms, not both. Either magic missiles or rockets, not both.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Hating Americans is a regular sport in Europe
I enjoy episodic content if it has a rhyme and reason to it.
If it were that simple, everyone would do it....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
In my opinion (just my opinion only), there is 1 major factor - too fast.
Casting in the old school RPGs used to be a planned and premeditated affair. You used to have to plan what spell you will use ahead of time, and it takes time to cast it, and how strong the spells are were not dependent on what "cloak" or "boots" you are wearing, but by reagents combination and things like that.
They made casting too much like physical attacks. They made casting fireballs more like shooting out Hadoken in Street Fighter then an exercise that was supposed to be using your toon's intellect.
Not saying it is right or wrong, just saying I feel it has deviated from what casting seems to be originally about.