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You bought it....
Randayn
Member UncommonPosts: 904
Too many people on these forums are blaming "greedy" devs and publishers for ruining the MMO scene.
I have to disagree wholeheartedly. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay for a game or the things offered in a game. Nobody is forcing anyone to choose a particular style of MMORPG. All devs and publishers do is try to make money...if that wasn't there goal, they'd be broke and unable to make a game.
Players are to blame for the genres falling apart. From the chase for the perfect open world PVP game (that will never happen) to the idea that MMORPG's should be more like action games...even though action games are a better option over an action game mmorpg...
This is the one true market that is still ran and owned by the consumer. So next time you wanna blame someone else for a bad purchase, remember that it was you that reached in your pocket.
Comments
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Right, but if this is known to be true, then why not be on alert? it seems that everytime a game comes out, it's the messiah and the devs are enshrined...then the lemon pops up and the dev gets chastised and smitten...rinse repeat...over and over...but it's the devs fault that we're not holding them accountable.
One of my biggest issues is the word "greedy" being strewn around....they wanna make money because that's why they are in business...it's not a charity. There is no "social" cause they are undertaking....they are making a game they hope people like so they can make money.
There is no greed involved in that.
That's where crowd-funding comes in, but then when the game falls apart for any reason, the niche devs are greedy too....rather than the people took a risk and put money into it.
It's almost as if consumers are afraid to admit a failed decision on our part.
its not a matter of accountability often times.
For example: lets take wildstar (cause im bored of discussing archeage). They hid their buggy as shit endgame content behind a beta with a level cap and a 1-2 week grind. there was no way for the consumer to know before hand. carbine also knew about that pvp stats not working but choose to essentially bury it on a random forum post in the pvp section of the forums...so the bulk of the player base didnt know about it(i did, none of my friends did though.) the developer made every effort to flat out hide broke parts of the game.
the fact is that in almost any other industry the company has some accountability if the product doesn't do what they say they do, or has some other adverse harmful effect that they failed to put a warning for.
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excluding the absolutely abusive/manipulative developer cases, your right to an extent that people fall victim to marketing hype. but they are also entitled to be passionate about their hobby.....so its kinda a deal with it type of issue.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
We're talkin bout NCSOFT there...I learned my lesson a LONG time ago with them...
I agree there, but then it's the idea that we hold those devs accountable for their actions. The easiest way is to not purchase their products.
yes but its the same most of the mmo industry not just ncsoft. they're are very few companies in the gaming industry that id call honest or even reliable. which is why often people come here and make "cry" posts for just about every game after falling for marketing hype.
i mean honestly the publishers/developers spend more money on marketing then game development these days....and marketing is generally the only part of the process that works as intended at release.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
1. The OP is right. *insert meme of Fry throwing money at something*
2. Consumers that assume, or hope that an outside force will bring some kind of accountability other than their wallets are sorely misinformed.
3. If you read the TOS, and understood that EVERYHTING in MMO games, belongs to the publisher/dev, then maybe you could see that no matter what they deliver, crap or not, they are under no such obligation because you don't like it. Beyond servers being down for days or weeks wherein you might have a claim to subscription costs being refunded.
Vote with your wallets folks, a purchase is confirmation that they are doing a good job.
Your above statement (in red) is certainly something I've noticed as a contributing factor to the boom and bust launch cycle. Players that have an upfront investment, even if its only a substantial time investment in following the game, tend to aggressively back their choice preceding launch and then shortly afterwards. Then comes the bust, they realize the game isn't really as great as it once seemed and players end up leaving in droves, but as you said, they've all already paid for it.
I'm not saying I'm immune to bad purchase decisions, on the contrary I've done this exact thing, however, I learned my lesson afterwards (Darkfall anyone?). The big issue is that most mmorpg players never seem to learn. Perhaps we're all so bored that some us will throw down money to momentarily alleviate it. It's definitely something I would accuse some of my RL friends of doing. It logically follows that a lot of others are making similar kinds of decisions.
I think there are 2 sides to the coin, but overall, I am leaning towards agreement with OP.
Too often fans are lining up to throw their money at these developers. They are funding a dream on a promise that the developers and publishers cannot deliver on but are happy to take the money. That's the other side of it.
Beta testing is a closed process open only to people who the developers recognized as someone who knows how to actually test software. Or long time players they knew and trusted to give good feedback.
Somewhere that turned into...........paying for access to an incomplete game. Yeah, "you bought it alright" But this new marketing hype mechanism is really just the evolution of the LTS. It's the same kind of fans that, 10 years ago, bought LTS, got burned, and said "never again". Now, 10 years later, they are lining up to pay for Early access, getting burned and are once again saying "never again". But the cycle repeats...........again.
IMO the hardcore fans of these games have actually hurt their cause more than help it by trying to defend what should be considered unacceptable thus sending the message "This is now acceptable".
Stop approving of this shit and start holding your favorite games to a higher level of accountability. Maybe they will actually get better.
[mod edit]
Where Devs alrdy given their Words "it wont be pay 2 win, it wont be that" and then they make the other ways, it means they break the promises and also the trust.
Thats what happend lately with most games who release lately, they clearly only thinking about Money and not about the players, to much games came out 2014 who flopped like shit, still next Company doing the same shit.
Fast Money for them maybe, but still its the reason why they called greedy.
Lets be real here for a minute... even if the game sucks, most people tend to enjoy it for the time they are playing it. The number of people who quit within minutes of installing the game are few, the majority quit much later... usually after they have consumed the content they care to consume. Just because they leave in droves later, doesn't mean the content wasn't entertaining while they were there. They got their entertainment. That's all the developer ever promised... a diversion.
This I can understand, but there have been instances of this in the past and I know Blizzard has taken steps to fix it and Wildstar is doing what it can to ressurect. The players spoke and the devs had no choice but to listen.
When you flip the bill, you own the hill
You aren't wrong, but those of us who started with games like UO and EQ played those games for years and years on end. From my own perspective, any mmorpg I can content locust my way through in a couple months is a failure in my eyes. That and the content itself is getting excessively rehashed to the point many mmorpgs nowadays often feel like reskinned versions of their predecessors. It's getting to the point where many single player games offer equivalent amounts or even more content than some mmos. Players that get the game expecting it to hold them over for a substantial amount of time are often sorely disappointed.
I agree with this 100% Pepeq...a good example (for me at least) was DC Universe...thoroughly enjoyed the game, but consumed all the content and moved on
This is called a "trend" and it is brought on by "demand"
You're missing the point of cause and effect... IF there weren't so many who support such, publishers wouldn't go down that road to begin with. There would be no reason to. That's the point the OP is making, to call him Braindead shows you really don't understand how this works. It's an issue of demand, which there is plenty of..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My stance: There's plenty of blame to spread around and neither side is immune.
The only two times I have felt burned (In MMOS) were Wildstar and GW2 to some extent, and it was more the hype that fooled me than the developers. I take responsibility for any game I choose to buy, there is enough information out there to make an informed decision. This is why I don't think Free to play games are necessarily a bad thing. I think there is some value in try-before-you-buy to the extent they offer. There are good/bad models of Free to play, and many more freemium, and they can change at any time (which i guess any model could, realistically)
But there is only one Buy to play, and if they don't offer any form of free public trial whether it be a demo or the first few levels then you really are buying into something somewhat blind.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile