[Preview] Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft: How Will Goblins vs. Gnomes Change the Game?

SBFord · November 2014

So at BlizzCon this past week we got the announcement of a new Hearthstone expansion. The news that it was Goblins vs. Gnomes made everyone laugh, until they found out it was coming in December! Then everyone got excited, until they started playing with the new cards. One hundred and twenty new cards to be exact. That is a massive expansion and Blizzard’s Team Five is on a role with a huge success in Hearthstone until the Goblins and Gnomes blow the game up...literally.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Hearthstone: How Will Goblins vs Gnomes Change the Game?

Deathenger · November 2014

I can't believe they have a new expansion ready so soon. Looking forward to it. Love me some Hearthstone!

Bloodaxes · November 2014

How will it change the game?

It will turn the game into more RNGfest.

bbbb42 · November 2014

more random? no ty

Tybost · November 2014

Never made a goblin or a gnome

but im still excited for the new cards non-the-less! ;D and to play it on an andriod tablet <_<

trancefate · November 2014

"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

rojoArcueid · November 2014

so thats why there is no smartphone hearthstone yet..... i dont want to use a mouse and im not buying an ipad. Give us the Cellphone app already, blizzard...

tawess · November 2014

Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

unless you stick with standard... Which many more casual players does... Then you go back down to a lot less cards. And even if you have 500 different land cards.. there are still only about 10-15 different rescources at best and only five different mana types. And if you play a mono deck it is in all honesty not all that different from HS. A bit more random on the rescource gain but not much.

Not tomentione that the meta in MtG tend to move between a few very specific types depending on the flavour of the current sets.

biblestudy · November 2014

Originally posted by tawess
Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

unless you stick with standard... Which many more casual players does... Then you go back down to a lot less cards. And even if you have 500 different land cards.. there are still only about 10-15 different rescources at best and only five different mana types. And if you play a mono deck it is in all honesty not all that different from HS. A bit more random on the rescource gain but not much.

Not tomentione that the meta in MtG tend to move between a few very specific types depending on the flavour of the current sets.

27 lisa frank trapper keepers and 18 years of collected cards beg you not to call him out on his elitism.

MtG or HS, in the end you're still playing a game centered around shuffling cards and drawing them one by one. Ultimately it's RNG just like Solitaire...

JeroKane · November 2014

Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

I have played MTG for years back in the 90's during my school years.

You still build a deck of around 60 cards. Limit it to either Mono or Duo deck.

In the end, MTG is as much RNG as is Heartstone or any other collectable trading card game. You still shuffle your deck, you still depend on the RNG gods to be with you.

As you can have the best MTG deck and yet still lose due to having bad luck with RNG.

Bloodaxes · November 2014

Hearthstone has more RNG than just getting the best starting hand.

There are minions that attack a random enemy (Ragnaros), spells that summon a random enemy from your opponent deck, summon a demon after killing someone with a spell, throw 3 bombs dealing 1 each to random characters and so on.

Relying on cards is one thing, relying on RNG from a card's effect is another. With goblins and gnomes we are going to get so much more RNG on minions and spells it will be so much luck based instead of actual strategies it won't be fun.

They haven't shown all cards but so far I don't like their way of thinking considering the numerous complaints in the forums about RNG.

JeroKane · November 2014

Originally posted by Bloodaxes
Hearthstone has more RNG than just getting the best starting hand.

There are minions that attack a random enemy (Ragnaros), spells that summon a random enemy from your opponent deck, summon a demon after killing someone with a spell, throw 3 bombs dealing 1 each to random characters and so on.

Relying on cards is one thing, relying on RNG from a card's effect is another. With goblins and gnomes we are going to get so much more RNG on minions and spells it will be so much luck based instead of actual strategies it won't be fun.

They haven't shown all cards but so far I don't like their way of thinking considering the numerous complaints in the forums about RNG.

On that point I can totally agree. RNG effects within the card itself is terrible.

sketocafe · November 2014

Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

I have played MTG for years back in the 90's during my school years.

You still build a deck of around 60 cards. Limit it to either Mono or Duo deck.

In the end, MTG is as much RNG as is Heartstone or any other collectable trading card game. You still shuffle your deck, you still depend on the RNG gods to be with you.

As you can have the best MTG deck and yet still lose due to having bad luck with RNG.

No. Hearthstone builds rng into its cards and effects and with few exceptions, magic keeps the rng in the shuffling and drawing. Which cards you draw when is more than enough randomness for a card game, adding more onto that is a poor choice.

RemyVorender · November 2014

WAAAAAAAAAYYY too much "Random" effects. What the hell is wrong with Blizz? RNG 4TW?

strawhat0981 · November 2014

I like the random effects the cards have, It makes for some fun battles.

azzamasin · November 2014

Originally posted by Deathenger
I can't believe they have a new expansion ready so soon. Looking forward to it. Love me some Hearthstone!

So soon? It's been a year since release and we've had the same small card pool to play with except for a limited 30 card adventure. You do realize that normal CCG's like MTG release an expansion or 2 a year and they are not even digital but card stock which means it takes more time to get to market.

The thing every one knows about Blizzard products is they are not fast and they take a long time to release which is not good for a CCG so lets hope they stick to a relatively timely release schedule because new influx of cards are required for the longevity of a good CCG.

azzamasin · November 2014

Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

While I agree with most of what you say you are wrong in many areas. Namely the common tournament structure uses a very limited amount of cards of the most recent base set and last couple expansions. This greatly limits the scope of the meta.

itchmon · November 2014

Originally posted by trancefate
"With twenty million players and the endless information on the Internet about deck building, in less than a year Hearthstone’s meta rivals that of Magic the Gathering which has been around for over twenty years."

This statement reeks of ignorance and prevented me from reading anything further. MTG has 13651 cards. Hearthstone has 412. As a player of both, I feel that comparing the complexity and meta of hearthstone to that of MTG is akin to comparing tic tac toe with chess.

There are considerably more different land cards in MTG (484) than there are cards in the entire game of Hearthstone. Not to mention that the entire energy system basically replaces 500 lands and probably a thousand other spells.

Furthermore you have the class system, which narrows down the possibilities significantly further. Taking all of these things into account brings Hearthstone much more in line with the meta of Go Fish than MTG. At least 50% of my losses come knowing exactly what the enemy is going to do and simply not RNG-ing into a counterplay.

TLDR: The meta of Hearthstone is vastly more simplistic and non dynamic than that of MTG. While hearthstone is a great game, there simply aren't enough variables in the game to require (or even allow) the kind of intelligence and planning that goes into the meta of MTG.

i was going to say something along these lines but you said it pretty well, thanks

every year, magic puts out about 1.75x the number of current cards in hearthstone, and they've been putting cards out for 21 years almost.

there are also a dozen or so magic formats to play, whereas in hearthstone there are only 3 that i've encountered: A solo adventure, a play match against a random opponent and an arena. in magic there are: Booster draft, Sealed deck, team sealed, team draft, standard, modern, legacy, vintage, block constructed, and commander, and i'm positive i'm missing some.

hearthstone is fun as heck, but don't compare the complexity of the metagame with that of MTG. the two are so far apart it's laughable.

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[Preview] Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft: How Will Goblins vs. Gnomes Change the Game?

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