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Everyone needs to check out Project Gorgon that has been looking for an old school experience
Takoo
Member CommonPosts: 149
It is really sad they could not get their 100k starter to completely finish the game. Unlike half the kick starters out there the game is very good for being alpha and playable with no major problems. You look at the game right now and think the graphics sucks but they do plan on making the game look great and polished. Problem is money. Anyways check the review to see what the game plays like.. Feels exactly like a MUD/EQ/AC combo..
I like how it does not feel grindy at all, no levels no !!! points. You learn spells by research.. Its just a an amazing game I hope it gets funnding so it can look polished.
If anyone wants to see what the game could look like..
Comments
Unfortunately I think the crowd funding market for MMO's is a bit tapped out right now, lots of people have contributed and nothing is really near delivery except perhaps Repop or ED, and even they are going to be very rough at first.
A game is going to have to be really special in order to get people excited enough to contribute, and having a few big names behind it probably also matters.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Really special compared to all those games that gets funding and the dev teases you with screen shots until they post a sorry letter saying they are sorry but they spent all the money. Then tell you the game is canceled and you get nothing.
Holy crap its a pre alpha they are letting people play. If they had the money they could get everything to look good. They post pictures of what they want everything to look like. With nice shiny guis and everything..
This game is better than any of the million WoW clones out there. At least it tries something different.
They should have just kept the game private and hype it all to hell like every shitty mmo out there does.
I play old school EQ and love every second. I'd have to disagree that Project Gorgon is much like EQ. Difficult dungeons sure, but tons of games have those now.
i do agree though that it is exceptionally polished and is very playable.
it didn't hook me at all though. Just another action rpg. It wouldn't even have pulled me from wow and I don't even sub to that anymore!
ps the dude who is making it (and his wife) are both genre vets and have plenty of "big name" clout as some seem to value.
theyve got a great game design blog.
Not sure how this game will appeal today.
But its still new and still being built.
What engine is this game being built on?
and how will PvP be handled?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I tried it and it was ok I guess but after playing it a few days I just can't make myself log back in to it. It all seemed pretty generic to me. Yeah, ok, you don't gain character levels which I'm all for but you still have to level up your skills so you still find yourself grinding for skill-ups.
That was fine I guess, it didn't really turn me off the game. So what did? Well, for one thing there seems to be a big focus on crafting. The typical, standard mmo crafting where you collect bags full of otherwise useless junk and then combine it to complete a recipe. I've never been a fan of that sort of thing and generally only did it if I had to. Unfortunately, Gorgon makes you do it to much. You want your new spell? Get the recipe, collect the junk, and craft it. I kind of hate that. I don't like having to keep track of what all bits and pieces and odds and ends I need for this or that recipe and trying to remember where I get them from and having my inventory filled with all that crap and being afraid to throw any of it away or sell it to a vendor because I might need it in the future. Blah.
The other thing was all the chores (quests) to do. I'm so sick of that. Sure the npc guys don't have exclamation points floating over their head but that's the only difference. They still have all those tedious chores for you to do and you have to do them to open up skills or improve faction, etc. And let's just be clear, these are not what I would call quests. They are tedious chores. Things like, "Collect 10 deer intestines." Yes, that was an actual "quest" I was given. I mean, come on. How is that fun?
So after playing for a few days I was standing there with fading motivation to keep going. I was thinking about all the crap I needed to collect for different recipes and not wanting to do it. Then I looked at my quest journal and saw that I had about fifteen god-awful, tedious chores I was supposed to do, and needed to do. And I was certain that once I completed those chores I would be given more chores, and then more chores, and then more chores. And that was it. I was done. I logged out and haven't logged back in again.
Let me try to be fair about this and point out again that I only played for a few days. Probably less than 20 hours total. But this is the impression I got of the game. It's not terrible but it's not that great either.
If I'm going to play a fantasy game I want fun, exploration, and adventure. I don't want to be an errand boy and I don't want to be a junk collector. There's no point in rambling on about how I would do things differently because no dev is going to listen to some random guy on a message board anyway. Besides, it's not my job. All I can say is that this game didn't make me feel like I was having adventures it made me feel like I was doing a lot of boring chores.
Like I said, it's not my job to figure that out. Oh I have a vision in mind of my dream game....like about a million other people...but even if I typed all of it out nobody would read it. To actually give a detailed description of how I would make a game if I could I would have to type out at least 20 pages of explanation and who the heck would even want to read all of that? It's pointless.
As far as Project Gorgon goes I'll just repeat what I said before. All I can say is that this game didn't make me feel like I was having adventures, it made me feel like I was doing a lot of boring chores. I'm not saying it would make everyone feel that way but that's how it made me feel.
I will say this much about how I personally feel about this stuff. I would honestly prefer a game with no quests at all over a game with tons and tons of tedious chore "quests". I'm not talking about my dream game here, but I actually feel it would be better to just let players obtain skills by killing mobs or something...anything, other than doing trivial tasks involving fetching odds and ends to take back to a npc.
You want to learn necromancy? Go kill the king goblin or something and take his necronomicon book or something like that. No you don't have to report back to a npc afterward. You got the book, you read it, now you have the necromancy skill. No you don't have to collect 10 king goblin turds and stir them in a pot with 5 cat eyeballs and 2 shiny rocks. You killed him, you got the book, you read it,....you now know necromancy, or at least the basics. Oh and no, you don't have to get permission from a npc before you go kill the king goblin. He's just out there and if you stumble on to him without ever having heard of him and kill him and take his book....fine that works. Or maybe another player told you about it. But you shouldn't have to be told to do anything by a npc before you can actually do it. You shouldn't have to go around collecting a list of friggen chores to add to your to-do list.
Just put stuff in the world and let people find it. And let them use it when they find it without having to jump through a bunch of silly hoops. It might not be ideal but it would be a better way of doing things in my opinion.
Like I said, it's not my job to figure that out. Oh I have a vision in mind of my dream game....like about a million other people...but even if I typed all of it out nobody would read it. To actually give a detailed description of how I would make a game if I could I would have to type out at least 20 pages of explanation and who the heck would even want to read all of that? It's pointless.
As far as Project Gorgon goes I'll just repeat what I said before. All I can say is that this game didn't make me feel like I was having adventures, it made me feel like I was doing a lot of boring chores. I'm not saying it would make everyone feel that way but that's how it made me feel.
I will say this much about how I personally feel about this stuff. I would honestly prefer a game with no quests at all over a game with tons and tons of tedious chore "quests". I'm not talking about my dream game here, but I actually feel it would be better to just let players obtain skills by killing mobs or something...anything, other than doing trivial tasks involving fetching odds and ends to take back to a npc.
You want to learn necromancy? Go kill the king goblin or something and take his necronomicon book or something like that. No you don't have to report back to a npc afterward. You got the book, you read it, now you have the necromancy skill. No you don't have to collect 10 king goblin turds and stir them in a pot with 5 cat eyeballs and 2 shiny rocks. You killed him, you got the book, you read it,....you now know necromancy, or at least the basics. Oh and no, you don't have to get permission from a npc before you go kill the king goblin. He's just out there and if you stumble on to him without ever having heard of him and kill him and take his book....fine that works. Or maybe another player told you about it. But you shouldn't have to be told to do anything by a npc before you can actually do it. You shouldn't have to go around collecting a list of friggen chores to add to your to-do list.
Just put stuff in the world and let people find it. And let them use it when they find it without having to jump through a bunch of silly hoops. It might not be ideal but it would be a better way of doing things in my opinion.
I really like what you said here Neanderthal. I almost totally agree. My only nitpick would be that I like putting things together. Like if I went and killed the Goblin King and got the book I wouldn't mind having to be taught to read the book or some such. I don't want to be given the task of finding the book and then killing the king, I want to receive the book as a drop then figure out what I need to in order to read it and learn Necromancy.
I guess what I'm saying is that I like what you said, but I also like some more complexity. I like things dropping what they drop without being assigned the task. I don't need that drop to be an instant reward all the time, but I don't want it to be conditional either.
Asdar
My gaming blog
Way too much is copied from other games I feel.
Even the zones are stolen here and there I think.
Gorgon top, EQ bottom. The graphics aren't much better in Gorgon, and the atmosphere in EQ is much better.
Most EQ players wouldn't mind a new game like EQ, but no one is looking for a copy of EQ. Why not just play EQ then.
I suppose this is drifting off the main topic but who cares. I might or might not agree with you about more complexity depending on what you have in mind. If it involves puzzle solving, well we all know the problem with that. It only works until someone posts the solution somewhere.
If it involves collecting various...whatever...runic translations or something then it's getting into an iffy area for me. It depends on how it works. If it can be made to feel like an adventure then fine. Like, there are three things in the bottoms of three dungeons. Each difficult and risky to get to...yeah ok, maybe. If it's something like....slaughter these goats over and over and over again until you get 20 goat entrails and then weave them into a entrail rug for the mayors daughter who then sends you to collect 15 roses and 5 skunk glands and 8 caterpillar heads to use to make a perfume to entice her into teaching you to read the book then I would scream in rage and smash in my monitor.
Something more straightforward might be, "Defeat the goblin sage and force him to translate the book for you". But really, any additional steps run the risk of becoming nothing more than busy work to drag things out.
But again, I'm not sure what you had in mind.
I put about three weeks into this game, evaluating and testing it. It wasn't for me. Reason: it was another everyone-does-everything game, where there is the tendency for an ultimate 'tank-mage' super skill set to evolve.
There was a lot of running about doing errands and trying to develop skills. Some skills, though were incredibly difficult to improve. Skinning and Butchering skills were notorious -- they occur after combat, and to get 'success'-level XP for that attempt, you ended up killing lots of mobs that were far below your combat skills. I was fighting pretty successfully in the first few dungeons, but had to go back to killing hundreds (and thousands) of rats and pigs in order to skill up butchering and skinning to where I could try to use these skills on the mobs I was fighting. I'd get 20 XP in the weapons I used in combat, but only 5 for a butchering success and 1 for a failure.
While the game initially did a fair job of hiding the tank-mage problems, the Halloween events brought this full-force. The main mobs for this event were next to invulnerable, unless they were stunned. Problem was, only a vary few of the combat lines had a Stun. If you were caught without one of the 'correct' skills equipped, you either died or ran away. Judging from the number of tombs, there was a lot more dieing. If you didn't know about the 'Stun' requirement, or didn't have that skill high enough, it was incredibly difficult to escape (the mobs were invading the first town -- new players coming out of the starting dungeon simply couldn't go to the starting city unless someone cleared the way.
Sadly, the most interesting part of the game was the ability to 'hang-out' with NPCs to improve faction, earn XP and gain other occasional goodies. Basically, that meant logging out and staying away from the game for a set amount of time. The most interesting portion of the game basically is stopping for the night.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
zero potential? lol i play this game and it is imo the ONLY game worth playing that of course fits my style of game design.
It is not a hand holding Wow copy ,not in the least and that is how i like it.It actually does not look as bad as many feel,turn your settings up and aside from shaders and HQ graphics it looks good,it just lacks the size and scope in assets that a large team could produce.
If you are looking for fancy cut-scenes and dialogue this is not it,it is an old school feel with skills ,classes and some unique ideas.
This game is about the game/play although i will admit it needs more design in the grouping aspect and no that does not mean group content but "group design".
I will assume this person did not give it a fair try or simply did not understand what he was doing because was used to the WOWesque copies out there.
This is a LOT closer to what a RPG is suppose to be,hand holding and chasing yellow markers is not even 1% what a ROLE play game is meant to be.It is my opinion that far too many of that new wave of gamer 10-12 years ago have ONLY experienced WOWesque games.
Anyone that knows me ,knows i am very fussy and i have chosen Gorgon when i never really accepted EQ.It is simply about the game design and game play,all the FLUFF is not here but i am ok with that because with such a limited budget,you ALWAYS have to choose game play over Fluff.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Unity which i don't really like and see lots of flaws in it but it meets their budget.BTW lots of games have used the Unity engine including Blizzard's Hearthstone and Shroud of the Avatar.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes i know what you are talking about,it actually seems more like a flaw in the engine or something.They are not really that visible and not all the time.
Imo it is far worse when i have played MANY of the top ranked games and there is this colored hue around your target,it stands right out and makes it looks worse,as i said i don't think that slightly visible box is meant to be seen.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Don't take this personally but in an RPG type of game, it really is your job to figure this out. If you aren't using the game mechanics to mold your character into what you want and then seeking adventure on your own terms, then you aren't really role playing. And of course it follows that you are not going to get very much out of playing PG.
I have played the game quite a bit lately. I agree that there are certainly a lot of the standard kill 10 of these quests. But there is some variety there too. It took me a while to actually figure out where the underground mushrooms were. And I wandered onto the underwater sewer entrance quite by accident. There are quests of all levels, however and the fun I think comes from determining how best to be able to complete them. What skill do I want to advance and what do I need to find to do it. One quest I found interesting was where you were asked to burn yourself 4 times. In a dungeon you had to find the locations of 4 torches and touch each one. And some you had to figure out how to reach them as they were put in difficult locations. So its a bit unfair to say all quests are the same, although many are similar for sure.
The graphics certainly hark back to EQ days and I think that the OP is being optomistic if he thinks this game will actually look much better in the future than it does now. A small drawback for most, but obviously there will be many that just won't accept that level today.
The combat is not really skill intensive IMO, mostly spamming your keys in order of cooldowns for me. There are some strategic options, although I find them limited. But the combat can be exciting because the world is open and you are free to walk unknown into any dungeon and take your chances. The mobs aggro easily and that is where most of the skill comes, in positioning and trying not to draw too much aggro.
If you like crafting, there are vast amounts of things you can do. The thing I find odd though is despite having some high skills, I am unable to craft any kind of weapon or armor. This is probably intentional I guess since this appears to be a loot drop game and pretty much all your gear comes from that. Possibly you will be able to enhance gear though crafting,but I haven't gotten there yet.
Gorgon is not perfect by any means. But it does seem to offer more of the free form gaming that I tend to prefer. If I am led quest to quest, and most are similar, that tends to get old for me. But if I get to choose from a large list and decide how and when I want to do things, well that appeals to me more.
What does bother me about a game like this, is player chat unfortunately. Half the fun is like Neanderthal says. Exploring and adventuring. And yet if I turn on chat it is all about players asking, "where do I find this?" or how do I get that?" All the enjoyment of exploring is taken away when players simply ask and tell each other what to do. I went into a dungeon with 2 other players the other day, just at random, I tagged along and got asked to group. Had never been there. The guy who was taking us in had probably been there a few times but not sure how far. We all ended up dying but it was fun because no one was yelling "Do this!! Don't do that!!! " Thats what makes games like this fun.
But people always seem to want to know everything first without bothering to look or discover on their own. If you are one of the people that likes to learn a game by playing the game, then you will probably like Gorgon. If you want the game handed to you, you likely will not get much out of it.
Just my two cents.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I never played EQ. But it is a valid point.
We certainly have more than a few variations on theme parks out there as well. There are still some subtle differences to all of them. Probably less old school games out there, I would say, than themepark. And it never hurts to have choices.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Uhmmm...........
EQ1 in 1999 is a completely different game than it is now.
Anyone who doesnt see that is kidding themselves.
Because I played AC. I have slain Olthois, Tuskers, Phantoms and Virindi. Traded in Fort Teth, macrod on the Obsidian Plains pillars, even had "who has the best macro" fights at Tusker Camps and jumped around in the northern ice region. I killed and loot other players and got killed and looted by other players on Darktide. It is not that I didn't like it but when I went back to AC I had the feeling I knew everything about it and had done the adventure.
PG just offers something new to explore in a similar but slightly different way and I actually like the fact that it is in alpha. You keep exploring/testing and when you think you are done then a small update is added and you have new stuff to explore and test. Which kind of reminds me of the monthly updates in AC although in PG they are every ~2 weeks. But the downside of alpha is that if you find a bug you like (i.e. +60% hammer dmg instead of 35%max) the admin pops up in the game 5 minutes later and says it gets fixed asap.In beta/release that bug would last a month, at least.
This is always a good indicator that someone never played MMOs before the WoW era.
The games we loved are long gone for a number of complicated reasons. The shells that exist today aren't played by many for very specific reasons.
EQ is gone. DAoC is gone. AC is gone (though less so than the other two).
Project Gorgon is the first game since Vanguard that reminded me that MMOs can be fun and interesting.