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[Column] General: Is That Even an RPG?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The holiday season has arrived, and with it comes the annual torrent of questions: what games are worth buying? Which games lived up to the hype? And most important of all, which in this diverse sea of games earns the coveted title of “Game of the Year”? We have a new question: even with leveling, and stats, and gear, how many of them – Destiny, Shadow of Mordor, Overwatch? – actually deserve to be called RPGs? The waters are muddy, my friends, and with 2015 just around the corner, they don’t look to be clearing anytime soon.
Read more of Chris Coke's The RPG Files: Is That Even an RPG?
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Comments
To me what defines RPG is a step past levels, progression, gear and stuff like that. RPGs are about choice - often expressed through dialogue options a-la NWN/ME2/DA/Elder Scrolls style, and the complexity of the game itself.
'Truer' RPG games throw stats and classes at you and one way or another remind you of Dungeons and Dragons where you assume a character identity and let it grow on you.
Looking at the other games mentioned in their list, I don't disagree that they have RPG elements in them, in so much as being able to make choices that they effect your character's development. But very few choices that affect the character identity. In essence you follow the traintracks that was left by the devs for you and whatever choices you make don't really matter.
This kind of creates the illusion of 'RPG' because because any choices you do make are made by playing through the game. Only the truly inept players won't unlock the majority of weapons/upgrades/challenges in AC/Shadows/etc since most of the time if they aren't right on the path, you're just 'given' them when a certain story event is reached.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
The question should not be is it an RPG but is it fun.
But suppose one only likes or prefers role playing games? If one doesn't like an action game or a FPS game then no matter how fun they are they aren't going to fit the bill.
The combat in Shadows of Mordor, for me, is very fun. I think it's the most fun part of the game as I find myself just taking one quest and then staying in the fort to run, jump, hide, assassinate and run some more while I fight orcs. But it's very shallow and I find the world and the quests not engaging enough to even finish. Probably why I'm going to have to just stay on the main quest and not do much else. I'll finish it for closure's sake but I don't see myself keeping it on my hard drive.
However, I still have Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, Oblvion and Skyrim, as well as the Dragon Age games on my computer and I regularly play them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
OP- No.
warhammer is an RPG.Borderlands2 is an RPG.Dead Island is an RPG...
overwatch is just a 'League of Ledgends' FPS w/o skins to buy in a shop...
:-?
I typically only play RPGs or RTS because that's what I find fun, I don't find action games and the like to be all that fun for many reasons. So.... there's a lot more to this question than is it fun or not...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
With your analogy then Hero's of the Storm is an RPG and not a MOBA, since you need to pick skills to level for ingame.
Gaming community: IRONFIST
New World: Lilith - US East
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Burning Legion> Alliance(We transferred to Illidan)
WoW Guild: IRONFIST <Illidan> Horde
SWOTR: IRONFIST <Satele Shan> Empire/Republic
The trouble is that RPG is a very vague label. "Roleplaying game." In a literal sense, most video games are roleplaying games - the player is stuck into some form of role.
So then actually differentiating between an RPG and anything else becomes a more subjective thing. Many will define an RPG in terms of progression and stat customization. Some put more emphasis on the ability to make story, character, and dialogue decisions. Others, like me, put an emphasis on writing as the central feature of an RPG - with greater merit on games that have the aforementioned story/character/dialogue decisions.
So then to encompass everyone, you've really got four camps of RPG's (that I can think of). Story-driven (those that have an impactful narrative but are more linear). Character-driven (story-driven with more emphasis on choice). Progression-driven. And games that are all of the above (for better or worse).
Games like Pokemon and Destiny are often put under the RPG net and are clearly good examples of RPG progression, but they offer nothing else that would define them as RPG's. Weak narrative, weak characterization. Very little (if any) choice that isn't about combat. So are they RPGs? Well, I suppose that's up for debate. By tradition, they would be, but that isn't going to give them the depth of a more story driven game, nor is it going to make them highly appealing to a more story-driven player. Unfortunately, most MMOs also fall purely into this.
A game is a roleplaying game if there's roleplaying in it. Some competitive shooter can have all the leveling and stats tinkering features in the world, but it has nothing to do with roleplaying, if it lacks the actual roleplaying.
I've always thought it's kind of stupid when people say a game is roleplaying game just because you get to allocate some numbers that increase your damage or hitpoints. That would mean angry birds can be turned into RPG by adding a feature that lets you put a skill point on your birds after every level...
...yeah right, a true RPG to rival Mass Effects... Oops I said it! Mass Effect, it's not a roleplaying game (a game, where you play a HUGE ROLE with a ton of choises with consequences) because you dont get to increase hit points right? Right? Stupid.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
As a writer of an RPG column, I have a new question: even with leveling, and stats, and gear, how many of them – Destiny, Shadow of Mordor, Overwatch? – actually deserve to be called RPGs?
As a writer of an RPG column you should know there's a simple answer to that (none)
Let me clarify with a simple example: by the systems, Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare is an RPG. Put down the pitchfork, Clarence, I’m not saying that’s the case. But can you deny it?
Huh? It isn't an RPG but we can't deny that it is an RPG? You were correct the first time.
It may not be an “RPG” but it sure is an FPSRPG.
What does that even mean? It's like saying "It's not rock but it's JazzRock!" If you're going to try to make up a new genre at least define it.
How about Shadow of Mordor? We at MMORPG felt confident enough that it fit the bill to cover it regularly and even offer a review. But I’d have laughed if you called that an RPG five years ago. It’s an action game! Assassin’s Creed with orcs! Oh wait, Assassin’s Creed is kind of RPGish too now. Well, darn. EvenDestiny would have qualified as a “barely there” RPG back in the day.
So what has changed in the eternity of time since 2009? Why can't we still classify those games as action games?
The point I’m circling is that our definitions our changing. Mechanics are not enough.
Whose definitions? Bored writers who need to create false controversy? My definition of RPG is essentially the same as when I first learned about them in about 1984.
Call of Duty isn’t the kind of game I’d put in the same category as Dragon Age: Inquisition, obviously, but you’re obviously kidding yourself if you ignore how someone else could.
They only could if they were very ignorant of game genres. Once again you are contradicting yourself. Either a game belongs in a genre or it doesn't.
More than anything, I need to feel like the game was intended to be a roleplay experience. One of the shallowest arguments I’ve heard is that Telltale’s The Walking Dead is the quintessential RPG because you truly play the “role” of Clementine.
Actually I wouldn't call TWD an RPG but it's more of an RPG than Shadow of Mordor. Other than which Orcs to promote or kill first you make very few actual character decisions in SoM. At least you can actually roleplay a certain type of character in TWD (within the limits of its dialogue trees).
But now to the real question on my mind: How do you define an RPG?
A game which allows you to play a character with the personality of your choice and make choices according to what you think that character would do in that situation. Usually also abstracting your character's skills and attributes into stats and mechanics which improve over time spent in the game to simulate your character's progression along his/her chosen life path.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
This
(except '88 in my case). I agree the whole post of iridescence... that's what I tried to point out under Bill's earlier column as well, nowadays you can find a pinch of rpg-ish element in almost every game out there, even on mobile, but it doesn't make those games RPGs. Not even by a longshot.
To be honest, I don't get the drive behind this new urge to label everything as rpg. As iridescence wrote, "Why can't we still classify those games as action games?" Like it'd be some kinda insult... "No, no, our game is not just a shitty action game, it's an action rpg." Yea, riiight. Seems like the mid-'90s all over again, when they journalists and marketing dudes started to call Dune 2 clones as "real-time strategy" because labeling it as a clone sounded dull
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that for example CoD is crap - err... actually it kinda is, especially the doggie... BF rocks
let's rephrase that. I'm not saying, shooters are bad for example, I too play them a lot. But those are not RPGs, no matter how many small pieces of rpg elements they implement into themselves.
(lame example but as much as I love pizza, I won't call gyros as "greek pizza" just because it also has some dough... Action games are action games, let's call them properly as they are... easy as that.)
Loot and progression mechanics may be popular mainstays of the genre, but they do not an RPG make. They are simply a tangible means to an intangible end; and one of many at that.
I would further say that it is not just character growth choices, but how my character interacts with the game's world in general and how that world reacts.
For me, it is not any 1, 2, or 10 "mechanics", but rather how the game "feels." CoD will never be an RPG in my mind. Neither will The Walking Dead series. CoD will be a first person shooter first and foremost. I hope it stays that way for its fans
The Walking Dead series is an interactive story, being very restrictive in its gameplay. These games just do not "feel" like RPGs to me, though I am sure others differ in opinion 
[EDIT]
Forgot to give praises to Chris for another thought provoking article
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
By definition in an rpg you are playing a role. It doesn't matter if that role is a sword swinging badass or a sneaky sniper. What does matter for me are the game mechanics. If for instance the role is that of a fantasy warrior who is supposedly brilliant with a sword and shield, it should be the characters skill that matters and decides things, not how fast the player can mash buttons on his keyboard / mouse or controller. When you take the skill away from the role and place it with the thumbs of the player you no longer have a true rpg, you have a twitch based action game.
How long would PnP dungeons and dragons have lasted if everything was decided not by the dice rolls themselves but by how close the player could get his dice to stop inside a small circle drawn on the table, regardless of how many spots appeared on top of it? or if two of the characters had a set to the DM insisted that the players fight it out for real to see who won?
That would have solved a great deal of ongoing drama in my DnD sessions back in the day.
Anyway, what exactly is wrong with calling an action game an action game? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.. guess what? It's probably a freaking duck.
as long as people are playing wow blizzard don't have to make an new mmo.
Sigh. There's plenty of RP in FF games.
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