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Mentor system fair or overpowered?
Xerek
Member CommonPosts: 61
in Everquest II
It's been awhile since I've played EQ2 (before it went F2P). Back then, the mentoring system seemed overpowered. That it wasn't about being able to play with a friend of a different level. Instead it seemed like a way to powerlevel a friend. Is it still that way? Or is it now a system that puts the two at roughly the same ability?
Comments
It is a really bad system and sadly the EQ2 community has never complained about lame ideas and SOE just favors whatever makes them happy instead of keeping the integrity of a game.
Another system that i really frowned upon was the loot system,players have been exploiting it forever,SOE knows about it,seems nobody cares.They loot an item that was meant to ONLY be had by party members ,however they just sit there and spam chat with wts and you run there to claim the loot.
IMO it shows a really sad community when they are ok with ideas that do NOT play out as intended,there should be a huge amount of complaints to set things right.
That is the sad reality of gaming,if players know there is a cheat or exploit,90% will relish it while 10% or less will actually complain and want it fixed.I have played COD games where an entire server knows a guy is cheating with an aimbot,i ask why are you guys still here playing with him,there answer was they thought it was cool he could "hack" the game.Even then i explained he is not hacking the game,that si retarded,he simply downloaded an aimbot cheat,yet they didn't care,they praised the cheat and started to beg him for the cheat,really sad gaming community out there.
My last point does pertain to the EQ2 situation because when you can mentor down and SOLO a Boss not meant to be soloed ,it is as good or better than cheating and NOT the way it was meant to be.
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In the Kingdom of Sky expansion I used to solo the Sanctum dungeon, mostly green-con with some blue-con. When the Faydwer expansion released i would solo bosses in the lower levels of Mistmoore, some of them yellow-con. The thing is, no one really cares what solo or duo players are doing when it has no impact on anybody else.
You're right about the community though. There was a time when the players would enjoy games for what they were. These days they run to the forums the moment they see something they don't like. The whole cheating thing is a sad state of affairs, but it's nothing new.
Yes, I've always found to be much stronger when mentoring down, compared to what I would have been at that level.
Is that a bad thing? I wouldn't say so. In every MMO, there is always lack of people in the mid levels - and especially in a game that is 10 years old, majority will be sitting at the highest levels. What this mentoring system lets me do is explore the mid-game content with just me and my sister, without the need to sit around for hours looking for enough people to help me out.
I think this is an intended mechanic. Making the mentoring less powerful would literally mean going into a config file and changing a few numbers around - there would be no problem to do it in an afternoon, by one person.
If you don't want the powerleveling then tell your friends to change their gear and spells to appropriate level range and try again. You may be surprised at how equal they are.
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While it is a bit, I think it's well done given it's nature.
There's a lack of mid level players, this helps combat that, to an extent; also leveling, exploring, grinding AA and doing chrono missions is a good little side venture for a change of pace. I never powerleveled myself, (80 for a year now, 60-80 with a couple hundred AA took three years) but I have had a great deal of fun lowering my level and rolling through old dungeons, raids and what not.
It's OP.
It's fun.
Solo players and boxers aren't really bothering anyone and it's not effecting the game.
The mentoring system was never really about 'playing with friends'. That was just a potential bonus.
What the system has always been about is helping newer players get caught up quickly to what the rest of the community is doing. And the way to do that IS via powerlvling. Which, as you pointed out, it definitely does well.
It's a shame that these types of games need such mechanics. Such is the biproduct of linear gameplay. The longer the linear progression continues, by it's nature the larger a gap new players have to traverse before they can enjoy the game the same way as everybody else. It's one of the reasons I prefer horizontal progression (even if most other people don't). It makes a lot of these problems go away.
That said EQ2 is still one of the more underrated MMOs in history. I stopped playing it for other things, but I've always had fun playing it, and still have fond memories of when I used to play. It's not a perfect game, but there's a lot that it does have to offer. If you can put up w/ the awkwardly dated graphics.
EQ2's low/midlevel balance is out of whack anyway because you can now have far more AAs then what you were intended to have.
However, there is ALWAYS a way to challenge yourself, because you can simply try dungeons several levels higher.
Power levelers always find a way anyway.
In EQ1's early days almost nothing was no drop, everything could be sold. No different from loot right selling. As matter of fact, a LOT of EQ was ideas that didn't play out as intended. Kiting and feign death pulling are big examples. Borderline exploits that became a crucial part of the game. If those things got 'fixed' EQ would have been a lesser game.
And you don't have to mentor down to solo a boss. My SK can solo tons of raids that still grant him experience. And you know what? Nobody cares. It has zero negative effect on the game, only a positive effect. If I want challenge, its out there. If I want to explore past storylines without the need to gather people for outdated content I can do that too.
I don't see how fair comes into play.Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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The reason I asked is, I was looking into alternate MMOs, and might bring a friend with me. Now she has a lot more time then I do to play (In Guild Wars 2 she had five or six level 80s. I have one.) She's going to outlevel me. Without some sort of level syncing, we're not going to be able to play together on our mains. Now, you may suggest we each create separate characters and only play those with each other. But I already pointed out my lack of playing time. Splitting it between two characters would be even worse.
Final Fantasy XI has level-syncing by party. You simply level up, select sync and everyone syncs down to the lowest level. Gear scales down too, so you can play with friends no matter what. City of Heroes did the same and the updated sidekick system would automatically sync and scale people to the level of the character in the party with the active quest. Both systems worked well, and both were brilliant.
Guild Wars 2 partially does this. Each zone and dungeon has a level cap, you're scaled down to it. The scale is still a little overpowered and the character is still a bit overpowered. Final Fantasy XIV does the same, scaling you down for FATE events and dungeons. Then there is Everquest 2's mentoring system, which seems quite OP and geared for power leveling.
I don't want my sessions with my friend being her having all the fun while I powerlevel. I'm trying to find an MMO that matches FF XI and CoH. Sadly, it sounds like EQ2 is not it.
EQ2 has something other games do not --- the AA experience slider
http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Alternate_Advancements_%28EQ2%29
all EQ2 subscribers can customize
- how much experience is going to leveling
- how much experience is going to gaining AA points
your friend can put all of her experience to AA, instead of shooting up in levels
and be level locked to whatever level you are
she will still gain experience but put it all in AA (AA is needed at upper levels anyhow)
you need to sub to do this, AA ratio is locked at 50/50 otherwise
EQ2 fan sites
We may not sub at first until we decide the game is right for us. Given how more time she has, I would not want to put her in a position where she cannot actually gain XP unless I am on, and vice-versa. It's an interesting system, but not exactly what we're looking for. Were the mentor system truly balanced, it would have been perfect.
Wouldn't her getting all that extra AA unbalance our characters anyway, even if we were the same level?
Horizontal progression may solve the issue of not having to level to xxx level to experience games as veterans do, but it creates a heap of other issues as well. It's better to speed up the leveling process of old content than it is to create a whole new system that has its own heap of troubles to begin with such as being a complete contradiction in the first place.
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not initially - most the AA points cannot be used until levels 50 / 80
AA is not overpowered the way downscaled mentoring is
I'm a huge fan of scaled content
SOE has been introducing level agnostic dungeons
where players level 20-89 can group together without having unbalanced power issues
5 dungeons were recently added to EQ2 and more are coming
http://eq2wire.com/2014/09/29/first-five-level-agnostic-dungeons-grandmaster-spells-coming-thursday-oct-2nd/
Level Agnostic Dungeons
Level Agnostic Dungeons are instances in which characters between levels 20-89 have a chance to group together, regardless of the difference in their adventure level. These dungeons are accessible by joining the queue on your Dungeon Finder Tab (Alt + Z) from the EQ2 Options Menu. Within each dungeon, adventurers will be able to battle heroic monsters and receive individual rewards based on their own level. This is a chance to earn great XP and enjoy a new spin on some classic dungeons!
EQ2 fan sites
There are a myriad of ways of keeping your character relatively balanced regardless of their level difference, mentoring is just one of these ways.
There's also;
EQ2 more than most all other MMOs has a variety of systems in place so that regardless of your level difference you can play together and enjoy a challenging game. I say this as someone who has - most recently - done so with a friend now with our latest characters for the last 2 years on and off, and they've never been the exact same level (sometimes varying more than +20 levels).
It's a situation where it's entirely up to you both how you want to play.
It really doesnt matter. There have been many item changes and you can hire a merc. You are going to be overpowered even when playing solo. So, if you mentor with your friend anything will be as (ab)normal as possible.
Just enjoy the stories and quests. Being overpowered has some advanages too. Mentoring with your friend and having two mercs you can do all old raid storylines and enjoy a lot of content. For a new player there is content for ever..
If all fails you can buy an upgrade to level 85 with some 230AA incl. armor, weapon and jewels to catch up.