The Repopulation map is divided in to 3 sectors one controlled by OWON (one world one nation), Rouge, and finally FPR. If you are OWON or FPR you can be safe in your sector. So 2/3 of the map is not PvP unless you want.
There will be two servers: one is normal the other hard core. Normal does NOT have full loot.
I urge you to go to the official web site for more details on the difference between the servers.
You mention DAoC, but I disagree with analogy. In the initial version of DAoC, the realms were separated. You fought on a battleground that was separate from the rest of the game. You could not go from one faction's area to the other. I might also add that there were co-op servers as well, where you could group with members of the other faction. Later expansions made it possible to raid into some areas of the opposing realm on some servers.
I was a very early tester in DAoC when there were only a few areas available and you had to use slash commands for many of the features. The standard servers are very much like DAoC's system. I can't speak of anything in DAoC after Trials of Atlantis. Having spent a lot of the time in the game through it's first couple expansions though I can give you an accurate comparison of the two at that time.
In DAoC you had three factions, each with their own landmass, which is pretty much exactly how Repop works for the two main factions. It's a large space that you never really have to leave. The third faction in Repop is similar to how guilds were handled on DAoC's PvP servers (Mordred, Andred) except there's more customization to it. Rogue Nations are in essence their own faction with configurable relationships with all other nations.
If you wanted to PvP in DAoC you'd go to the frontiers and it became Team PvP with sieges on preset locations. Again that's how it works in Repop, just without the preset locations. Repop will have both player created cities that can be sieged, and also points of intrigue which will randomly sprout up throughout the world and offer benefits to whoever controls them. So while the actual parts you are fighting over are a little different, it's the same basic mechanic, if you want PvP this is where you go.
Where they differ is that in Repop you can continue on into the opposing factions territory if you wish. You can't attack them though, and if they choose to attack you they will flag themselves (for a minimum of 5 minutes) as being active PvP so that you can fight back against them. Players are fully protected in those areas unless they flip on Active PvP and both sides need to be Active in order to attack one another. The only place where that restriction does not exist is in the middle regions (the PvP areas). Sieges are another difference, it's going to take a lot more to steal a city in Repop than it is to take a keep in DAoC. You have to declare ahead of time, and there are chances to opt out with diplomacy during the siege. This was designed to combat the 4am sieges when your rivals are sleeping.
Where 3/4 of the world was faction oriented in DAoC and you could only explore your own factions (meaning you had 25% of the protected world +25% in the frontiers if you partook), in Repop everyone can explore the whole world, and are fully protected in over a third of it, partially protected in another third. You could play forever and never participate in any PvP, if that's what you want, and you'd be able to kill the high tier bosses and collect high end resources just the same.
@Tiller: There is already a flagging system that works very similar to what SWG did, except that it toggles on your pvp flag when you enter into the contested areas. Active and Reserve military. Both players need to be Active in order to attack one another. The active flag is temporarily turned on when you venture out of your factions territory. In opposing factions territory you are Active, but they still can not attack you without going Active themselves which it will force on for 5 minutes. The PvP area belongs to neither OWON or FPR and as a result it both sides get forced to Active and your always vulnerable to attack by non-friendly nations.
@Phry: Repop is not a forced PvP game. If you are completely phobic of PvP you could still explore 2/3 of it risk free if you had two characters. And as mentioned earlier it's really quite a bit more than that because the protected areas are larger than the pvp area. If you don't like PvP, don't go to the PvP areas. Even in a pure PvE theme park game, there are generally areas that you can't go to because they are owned by a faction hostile to you.
@The PvP vs. PvE Poll Guy a few pages back: It's definitely true that almost all players feel that PvE is important, because even PvP people enjoy PvE. It's the most important thing to get right. However, the vast majority of players (that's the 70% number I threw out) also feel that PvP is important, and that number has risen significantly over the years. The majority of players enjoy PvP to some extent. But the sad reality is that PvP in most MMOs is battlegrounds. Repop was designed to provide Open World PvP which has meaning, without forcing it on players. That's rare in this genre. But you can't have true open world conflict, territory control, etc and allow players complete safe passage. There's nothing to stop a large mass of players from turning off their flags, moving to a spot and then turning them on at once.
You mention DAoC, but I disagree with analogy. In the initial version of DAoC, the realms were separated. You fought on a battleground that was separate from the rest of the game. You could not go from one faction's area to the other. I might also add that there were co-op servers as well, where you could group with members of the other faction. Later expansions made it possible to raid into some areas of the opposing realm on some servers.
@Phry: Repop is not a forced PvP game. If you are completely phobic of PvP you could still explore 2/3 of it risk free if you had two characters. And as mentioned earlier it's really quite a bit more than that because the protected areas are larger than the pvp area. If you don't like PvP, don't go to the PvP areas. Even in a pure PvE theme park game, there are generally areas that you can't go to because they are owned by a faction hostile to you.
Your post is a bit misleading when you say 2/3 is safe if you have 2 characters. What you should say is if you have 1 character 2/3 of your world is not safe which is the problem.
One thing that I don't understand is do you have to join a faction?
You mention DAoC, but I disagree with analogy. In the initial version of DAoC, the realms were separated. You fought on a battleground that was separate from the rest of the game. You could not go from one faction's area to the other. I might also add that there were co-op servers as well, where you could group with members of the other faction. Later expansions made it possible to raid into some areas of the opposing realm on some servers.
@Phry: Repop is not a forced PvP game. If you are completely phobic of PvP you could still explore 2/3 of it risk free if you had two characters. And as mentioned earlier it's really quite a bit more than that because the protected areas are larger than the pvp area. If you don't like PvP, don't go to the PvP areas. Even in a pure PvE theme park game, there are generally areas that you can't go to because they are owned by a faction hostile to you.
Your post is a bit misleading when you say 2/3 is safe if you have 2 characters. What you should say is if you have 1 character 2/3 of your world is not safe which is the problem.
One thing that I don't understand is do you have to join a faction?
You must begin as either OWON or FPR. But you can change factions. So with the same character you can explore 2/3rds of the map free from harm. You can also go to Sept Falls, the Rogue safe city (it's really pretty out there).
Why not make a PVE server for those of us that have zero interest in PVP...
I was super excited for the game, but I won't be playing a game that won't allow me to enjoy the entire map.
That was my first thought as well. There should be a PvE server.
That would be pretty pointless in a game where there are 3 factions at war over their views.... This game will have Hardcore PvP servers and Normal PvP servers, i'm sure there will be plenty of ways to do things when you don't want to PvP but in order for this game to work the way it needs to there has to be PvP on most of the map. SWG had the same system and it worked out great, just because there is a large area made for PvP doesn't mean that it will be a constant gankfest, many times in games like this players at times will come to a mutual understanding that both of them have things to accomplish and they will both get it done faster if they give each other a pass for now. It's the choice to do things like that which makes games like this even that much better imo.
Why not make a PVE server for those of us that have zero interest in PVP...
I was super excited for the game, but I won't be playing a game that won't allow me to enjoy the entire map.
That was my first thought as well. There should be a PvE server.
That would be pretty pointless in a game where there are 3 factions at war over their views.... This game will have Hardcore PvP servers and Normal PvP servers, i'm sure there will be plenty of ways to do things when you don't want to PvP but in order for this game to work the way it needs to there has to be PvP on most of the map. SWG had the same system and it worked out great, just because there is a large area made for PvP doesn't mean that it will be a constant gankfest, many times in games like this players at times will come to a mutual understanding that both of them have things to accomplish and they will both get it done faster if they give each other a pass for now. It's the choice to do things like that which makes games like this even that much better imo.
Which is a fairly ironic statement given your name
Of course there is no reason whatsoever for a F2P PVP game to turn into a roving gankfest, nope, not one.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Funny the best sandbox I ever played was SWG with optional pvp. Why do all these so called sandbox developers think they must have full loot pvp? You are talking about 2/3 of the map being off limits if you don't want to pvp. That is a recipe for failure in a MMO.
Because they listen to the vocal minority, which is also why their games end up failing.
So can I level to max in the 1/3 area only? Then PVP. Also will there be a stealth class, and if so will it be toggle or timer?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
One of the reasons PvP is important in sandbox games has to do with giving players meaningful, lasting conflict that isn't created by developers. Darkfall and UO are great examples. Ultimately, the worlds and the story of those worlds hardly ever change from a development perspective, but they remained interesting at meta-engagement when you reached a stage in either that allowed you to understand who was controlling what territory, and where their enemies and alliances lie. Subterfuge, politics, diplomacy: they all become important tactics in an open world PvP game, which is something that's completely lost on instanced player combat.
I can understand that the majority of the MMO audience doesn't enjoy open world PvP, and that their stance has probably been influenced by a bad experience in another game, possibly a sandbox. To this I'd have to mention that you can't approach these two types of games, polar opposites, with the same strategies or expectations, and in most of my experiences, completely anecdotal, I've found the frustration stemmed from a general misconception that what works in one will work in another. I think it's also important to mention that developing the game the way they have does not easily allow the creators to simply make servers with PvP turned optional; they'd have to redesign their world, resource gathering, and find another way to keep players interested in the environment outside of PvP (which I should mention, would require developers keep up with their player base in terms of content creation).
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
This game doesn't need a different pvp model, it needs more resilient players willing to take some risks and overcome the challenges the design presents.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran This game doesn't need a different pvp model, it needs more resilient players willing to take some risks and overcome the challenges the design presents.
I'd agree with that.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Why not make a PVE server for those of us that have zero interest in PVP...
I was super excited for the game, but I won't be playing a game that won't allow me to enjoy the entire map.
This. Highly dissapointed. Not hard to create two ruleset servers. They immediately set themselves up for another tiny niche game a la Darkfall. /shrug
I always liked PVP, but there are just too many socially handicaped people on the internet, that get sole enjoyment out of making other people´s life misserable.
There is a Normal server and a Hardcore server and you can get all the materials you need in the safeareas. Its just that you can get alot more of rare resources in the non safe areas than in the safe ones. Its to promote exploring and making the game not just a easy grind the best shit no risk too it.
Precisely... This game already has separate rulesets and it is too niche to try to have so many different server types... normal (think DAOC) and Hardcore (think Darkfall)
If you are hell bent on strict PvE this is simply not the game for you...
When they say 1/3 of the game is "safe zone" it's 1/3 for your faction, 1/3 for the other faction and 1/3 for the contested area.
Diversifying too many servier rulesets this game will be The Unpopulation when players bitch and moan that the servers are dead...
I enjoy the excitement of PvP but hate losing my shit so I am perfectly fine on normal... I can play casually in the safe area then when I want some action I can go to the contested area without the fear of loss.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Funny the best sandbox I ever played was SWG with optional pvp. Why do all these so called sandbox developers think they must have full loot pvp? You are talking about 2/3 of the map being off limits if you don't want to pvp. That is a recipe for failure in a MMO.
Funny when people make these comments as a matter of fact...should end the post with, "to me". I for one would never play a sandbox title without very hardcore pvp, to each his own.
Josh has it right with the hardcore server and the pve server, IF THE population can handle it. If it can't, then you could make the games pvp be based on clan politics. Meaning that you can make a clan and declare war on other clans, if those clans accept, you are always red to each other, then after 7 days or so the server tallys up kills to deaths and declares a winner. Basically what L2 did...and it works.
My big concern is still the same as it was in the early days...the idea of both tab target and aim to shoot is silly. Then to pretend the pvpers have an advantage if they are aim to shoot is just stupid...come on Josh, you aren't talking to idiots. Pick one...but for those of us wanting aim to shoot...we are gimped against tab targeters unless you add in major penalties for them.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Are the items for sale in the cash shop open for resale in game or are they character / account bound? If they are bound, it's fine, but if not, this will be a huge factor in this game. I don't care what they are selling. they said they won't sell items considered P2W and I have no reason to think they are lying and that's not really my issue.But being able to resell them is. And if that is the case, How do you keep a game with a player controlled economy with heavy emphasis on crafting and PVP from shifting to P2W if you can still transfer real funds into the game converting it to game currency?
Comments
The Repopulation map is divided in to 3 sectors one controlled by OWON (one world one nation), Rouge, and finally FPR. If you are OWON or FPR you can be safe in your sector. So 2/3 of the map is not PvP unless you want.
There will be two servers: one is normal the other hard core. Normal does NOT have full loot.
I urge you to go to the official web site for more details on the difference between the servers.
Thanks for the clarification!
Name one modern pve sandbox that does not force pvp on you. I can't think of one can anyone?
Your post is a bit misleading when you say 2/3 is safe if you have 2 characters. What you should say is if you have 1 character 2/3 of your world is not safe which is the problem.
One thing that I don't understand is do you have to join a faction?
You must begin as either OWON or FPR. But you can change factions. So with the same character you can explore 2/3rds of the map free from harm. You can also go to Sept Falls, the Rogue safe city (it's really pretty out there).
That would be pretty pointless in a game where there are 3 factions at war over their views.... This game will have Hardcore PvP servers and Normal PvP servers, i'm sure there will be plenty of ways to do things when you don't want to PvP but in order for this game to work the way it needs to there has to be PvP on most of the map. SWG had the same system and it worked out great, just because there is a large area made for PvP doesn't mean that it will be a constant gankfest, many times in games like this players at times will come to a mutual understanding that both of them have things to accomplish and they will both get it done faster if they give each other a pass for now. It's the choice to do things like that which makes games like this even that much better imo.
Which is a fairly ironic statement given your name
Of course there is no reason whatsoever for a F2P PVP game to turn into a roving gankfest, nope, not one.
It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when the developers mention that Star Wars Galaxies is one of their models.
Because they listen to the vocal minority, which is also why their games end up failing.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
One of the reasons PvP is important in sandbox games has to do with giving players meaningful, lasting conflict that isn't created by developers. Darkfall and UO are great examples. Ultimately, the worlds and the story of those worlds hardly ever change from a development perspective, but they remained interesting at meta-engagement when you reached a stage in either that allowed you to understand who was controlling what territory, and where their enemies and alliances lie. Subterfuge, politics, diplomacy: they all become important tactics in an open world PvP game, which is something that's completely lost on instanced player combat.
I can understand that the majority of the MMO audience doesn't enjoy open world PvP, and that their stance has probably been influenced by a bad experience in another game, possibly a sandbox. To this I'd have to mention that you can't approach these two types of games, polar opposites, with the same strategies or expectations, and in most of my experiences, completely anecdotal, I've found the frustration stemmed from a general misconception that what works in one will work in another. I think it's also important to mention that developing the game the way they have does not easily allow the creators to simply make servers with PvP turned optional; they'd have to redesign their world, resource gathering, and find another way to keep players interested in the environment outside of PvP (which I should mention, would require developers keep up with their player base in terms of content creation).
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'd agree with that.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Precisely... This game already has separate rulesets and it is too niche to try to have so many different server types... normal (think DAOC) and Hardcore (think Darkfall)
If you are hell bent on strict PvE this is simply not the game for you...
When they say 1/3 of the game is "safe zone" it's 1/3 for your faction, 1/3 for the other faction and 1/3 for the contested area.
Diversifying too many servier rulesets this game will be The Unpopulation when players bitch and moan that the servers are dead...
I enjoy the excitement of PvP but hate losing my shit so I am perfectly fine on normal... I can play casually in the safe area then when I want some action I can go to the contested area without the fear of loss.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Funny when people make these comments as a matter of fact...should end the post with, "to me". I for one would never play a sandbox title without very hardcore pvp, to each his own.
Josh has it right with the hardcore server and the pve server, IF THE population can handle it. If it can't, then you could make the games pvp be based on clan politics. Meaning that you can make a clan and declare war on other clans, if those clans accept, you are always red to each other, then after 7 days or so the server tallys up kills to deaths and declares a winner. Basically what L2 did...and it works.
My big concern is still the same as it was in the early days...the idea of both tab target and aim to shoot is silly. Then to pretend the pvpers have an advantage if they are aim to shoot is just stupid...come on Josh, you aren't talking to idiots. Pick one...but for those of us wanting aim to shoot...we are gimped against tab targeters unless you add in major penalties for them.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
My biggest question for this game is:
Are the items for sale in the cash shop open for resale in game or are they character / account bound? If they are bound, it's fine, but if not, this will be a huge factor in this game. I don't care what they are selling. they said they won't sell items considered P2W and I have no reason to think they are lying and that's not really my issue.But being able to resell them is. And if that is the case, How do you keep a game with a player controlled economy with heavy emphasis on crafting and PVP from shifting to P2W if you can still transfer real funds into the game converting it to game currency?