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I grow tired of Kiddies Online
Rekindle
Member UncommonPosts: 1,206
In March I turn 30 years old, which is a scary thought. I feel like I'm part of a dieing breed of gamer who actually takes the time (and has the capability) of doing a decent job in spelling. Back in the good ol days (for me it was UO then EQ) you always had to deal with lamers in public chat or even your group. Some of you know who I mean: The player who asks a mage for a SOW in Eq. The UO character named Redrum who honestly believed his name was unique.....<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
or the type who chooses to use the letters "ne" in lieu of typing one extra letter to complete the actual word "any". ...ie the Immature gamer who is at a minimum half your (mental) age.
Maybe its the company I keep (currently play WoW) but I feel like the mental age of gamers is going down, down, down in a couple different games. One exception I guess would be Eve. I have played EvE online and I must say the mental age seems much higher -- too bad I find the mechanics of eve about as exciting sorting through three weeks worth of recyclables in my basement (please PM me and convince me to come back 
)
I guess Im asking a question: Am I the only one who feels this way? Or is there a group of people out there that grow tired of being clumped up on gaming servers with a bunch of kids? Is the mental age of gamers going down or is it just a relative thing and I'm getting older? :P
Maybe I'm just too old to be playing video games...but it sure would be nice if they made some adult only servers or marketed a good fantasy game as being mature entertainment (and I dont mean Jenna Mature :P)
WoW public chat frightens me for its topics of conversation. Public message boards relating to gaming in general frightens me due to the lack of spelling and grammar being presented. I feel like the entire MMO Genre is being marketed to be over run with Kids. I respect that kids have as much right as I do to play a game but that doesnt mean I have to spend *my* game time with people half my age.
What game(s) has the most mature audience youve encountered to date?
What game has the most immature audience youve encountered to date? (World of Warcraft goes without saying).
Comments
I agree 100%.
txt spk rly is teh suxxor
I've tried or watched quite a number of games now and it's the same(ish) all over to one degree or another.
EvE is pretty boring and relatively kiddieless in terms of speech, but still has PvPers and scammers who don the asshat on a regular basis to cause people strife. That the arguments and vitriol are more eloquent and damning actually can make things _worse_ rather than better since it's far easier to completely dismiss someone calling you 'ghey'.
I think the gameplay style helps there somewhat.
I mostly play Saga of Ryzom at the moment and that had about the most mature community I had ever encountered in any MMORPG to date, with people actually _roleplaying_ and things! Wonderful! With the advent of much more PvP however that wonderful atmosphere is slowly sliding down the tubes. IMO it's still the most mature community out there but before all these changes it was heaven (now it's just purgatory as compared to WoW's hell).
I think Seed might be a good one, its non combatative nature will have most kiddies going 'WTF?' and not going anywhere near it - though of course, that may seal it's doom.
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Well said.
I too am 30 years old, and play WoW. I am finding I get very easily aggivated playing the game. Not due the game its self, but the people in it and the lack of pleasent people.
I personaly am looking forward to Everquest II new PvP startup. I am hoping the mature community that EQ2 has had will remain in the PvP servers.
But you mention "mature" mmo games? Well the "worlds first" mmorpg with a rating "M" (mature) is Age Of Conan. That and I feel Star Trek Online will also have a rather mature community of "old guys" like us. lol
If EQ2, Age Of Conan and Star Trek Online fail I fear mmo gaming is no longer for me.
I also agree, I'm often frustrated at my peers and not-so fellow gamer due to the lack of effort overall... it's bad enough they're saying things such as "ne 1 no were (x mob/npc/place etc" is?" and "ne 1 no how 2 do (x quest/skill/mission etc)". I just see it on a daily basis, both in p2p and free mmos as well (although it is much more rampant in free mmos, but thats to be expected); the "txt" speak as its so called begins to wear down on you after a while, and just gets downright annoying.
But let me break your stereotype and say that not all of us are like that, in fact it happens even with older gamers. I know a 42 year old gamer who plays fps's alot [my dads friend] and he uses txt speak all the time, although he structures the sentences right at least instead of "how 2 " etc he does "flnk lft sid" for flank left side so its not too bad. Also know a 27 year old that types like "how 2" and "ne 1" type style, although I only know this person online so he may be lying.
But back to my earlier point, not all us younger gamers talk this way. I just turned 19 last year in decemeber and I havent typed that way through my whole gaming career. I find that most of the problem stems not from the fact that they're lazy, but more-so the fact that they just don't know how to type properly. Back when I was in highschool I had a circle of friends that played mmorpgs (well more than a circle really, more like a cult lol) and we all tended to play the same stuff although we sometimes drifted apart. Sometimes we would game at eachothers houses and a few of them typed like that, when Id look over they would be typing hunched over the keyboard staring at it and pecking. My brother is the same way, hes 21 but hes also not a real avid gamer either. I learned to type in sixth grade, so I think if we got more kids into typing programs (especially important in this day and age) I think wed see alot less "txt" speak.
My girlfriend is 15 and she types really well. I also have some friends from several mmos that are as young as 11 and they also type well. The friends I have that do type well though, I find its due to the fact they had typing classes.
So, to sum it up... typing classes = less "txt" speak.
PS: I blame txt speak largely on cellphone txt speak as well, all those commercials tried to make it cool to use "u" "2" "b" etc.
PS 2: I skimmed over your later question, the most mature audience I've encountered was saga of ryzom, and phanatsy star online.. both had pretty mature communities. I'm waiting for phantasy star univerese, I think it will have a pretty mature community.
-Shojin
Just on the border of your waking mind
There lies another time
Where darkness and light are one,
And as you tread the halls of sanity,
You feel so glad to be unable to go beyond.
I have a message from another time...
Axis Eleven
I completely agree with you Rekindle, although I suppose I can't say much regarding age, I'm fairly young myself.
But it's pretty obvious that there seems to be a growing maturity issue within these games, WoW as you mentioned, screams to mind.
Picking up on your example though, back when I was playing WoW and was in a good sized rp/pvp'ish guild, we had this one player who was the quintessential L337 kiddie, or so we thought. It was constant shortform in both the guild pvp chat and rp chat, things like ne/m8t/l8tr, I mean seriously it made me sick to the point where I just refused to speak with him after some time.
Anyways fastforward to later down the road, the guild was dooing some instance or another and we're all talking on Vent, well wouldn't you know it when this one player comes online and joins the vent server, he turned out to be an older man of around 30'ish and actually quite nice to speak with.
Needless to say, we we're all just completely confuggled (<--- that's a technical term by the way), when we asked why he routinely made such an ass of himself, he said: "well, everyone is like that, I'm just trying to have fun and fit in".
So my point to all this, childish behavior begats childish behavior, not to say that age does not play a role in the end, which it most certainly does but isn't it possible that when many people are surrounded by a certain... "behavior" that behavior almost repproduces itself, a snowball effect almost ?
To end, I'd also just like to add a word on spelling, I know that sometimes it's just plain laziness on account of many people but there are other times when it's simply a lack of understanding of the english language.
I'm a prime example of this, english is my third language with a total of 5 that I know fairly fluently, I try desprately to keep up with the spelling and speaking, it's certainly not easy and is always an effort but I do try. It's a little simpler on forums like these because I can at least try to think of what I'm about to spell and it's honestly extremely good practise for me but in games, especially if there's alot going on, my spelling get's really horrid, I mean it's absolutely hillarious.
So just try to remember, it's not always that a person isn't willing to make an effort at spelling correctly, it's that they are learning or at least trying, benefit of the doubt and patience is always welcomed
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Originally posted by Rekindle
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />too bad I find the mechanics of eve about as exciting sorting through three weeks worth of recyclables in my basement (please PM me and convince me to come back
Quoted for Pure truth
But yeah, I agree with you. Despite I'm still under the average age for MMO's (I'm 16) and English is not my native language, I still consider myself "mature". I know how to handle myself in an English conversation, but I get SO annoyed by people typing "PLZ!" or "PLX!". your asking for someone's time, the least you can do is type "Please" normally. the "oh english is not his native language" is not an excuse. if someome can type plz, then he can type Please as well.
I joined the RF Online Beta. as a ex-WOW player (and ofcourse other games) I was now expecting a more mature community, no more rediculous Vin Dies or Chuck Norris spam (who the hell came up with that!?). so I log into the servers. first line of text I read?
"Chuck Norris pwnz him lolol"
I really gave up all hope on a normal community and out of pure frustration I gave the EVE online trial another try. and that is a rare sight gentlemen!
This is a hard thing to resolve in any proper form , as most of you have pointed out. Alot of the childishness you speak of comes from adult gamers . Another reason for use of TXT is due to a quick way to comunicate during pvp , though most use a voice chat server for such purposes . I tend to ignore most of the kiddie BS on a relative basis . I turn 28 this year so i know where you are coming from . But at the same time I use gameing as a form of relaxation , so i try not to have a serious attitude towards them . Most of the time it really dosen't bother me .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The bad news: It really sucks when you make a blatant spelling error in the very same sentence in which you proclaim your adroit grammatical talents. ("dying" not "dieing")
bah hah - touche friend. However, the point is, my spelling errors were limited to the spell checker's inability to catch my errorzes. I guess I should find some Microsoft site to rant on about that.
Trying joining a RP server. RPers kind of get annoying, but when I played EQ2 most people were just talking normally. It seems to scare away all the people who don't like to type full words. As long as you can stand all the:
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I'm 30.. I play WoW and I hate kids..
Why I started a guild that doesn't allow kids in it
So I group with my guild constantly and am really never exposed to them at all.
I might add that my gripe isn't all about people and their spelling. In IM and in game we don't always take all the time we need to spell correctly. But the over use of "trend terms" like "o rly" and whatever l33t terms are in flavor make me sick.
I'm also not lost on the fact that some 30 year olds act like 12 year olds and vice versa. I've always been under the impression that if I can't tell you're 12 then thats good enough. If you're 30 acting 8 then you might as well be 8. Hence my reference to mental age.
The growing problem is a lot of gamers have kids and we spend most of our day either working for them at a job so they can eat, and then feeding them and getting them into bed. I think there comes a valid point at the end of the day when the lights are out that I can sit down and "slip away" for a few hours. The growing problem is the "places" I go to have a ;ot kiddies in them.
Game makers are far to idealistic to think that kids and adults are going to mix in a gaming world. We're like oil and water.
I couldnt agree more. 26 and i'm sick of ADHD kids high on sugar that play. I play EVE now and i'm happy to say that it seems a mature community. (please come back Rekindle, we need you.)
One issue that I feel need to be pointed out regarding typing, grammar and spelling is the fact that many people dont have english as a first language (or native language if you like). I am a norwegian feel I have mastered the english language fairly well, but in the heat of battle or when I need to say something fast the structure and words can get crewed up.
This dont excuse kids (or adults) who use "txt" speak, but please stay tolerant of minor/major spell problems as many people dont have complete control over the english language.
I'm only 24 years old, but I agree with you. The recent years in mmogaming has been kind of an antiklimax. I'm not dissing the latest games cause they have plenty of entertainment value and I've invested half a year in EQ2 and almost a year on/off in WoW. They're good at what they do, but they don't do what I would like to see :P to put it that way. I miss the hardcore feel.
And there's the players. True for every game you'll always have young players and older players represented, but the level of immaturity in especially WoW is just mindboggling. In comparison to AO which was my introduction to the genre where I had the impression most people were around thirty (at least in the guild I spend my time with). Age is a state of mind of course, and in many aspects these recent mmorpgs have been great at introducing new players to these games.
Granted having english as a secondary language my grammar is flawed and I don't take such notice from others either, but in my opinion alot of the trash getting typed out in the public channels is just silly, flavour of the month slang considered cool just because everyone else "rebell" and spew it out, so it's a self fueling fire. We've all been through an elite speak period of some type at some point I'd imagine, but WoW seems to be eternally stuck with it just like CS was (and probably still is I guess)
People aren't even able to type complete sentences. Heh, I remember a time we figured a specific member in my old AO community as an "asocial outsider" because you couldn't pry a proper reply out of him, far less reason with him. To use your patented term; in the Kiddies Online games this is how it feels everyone acts now.
The high profile gaming companies seem to just want to make their games easier to play and as such less rewarding to succeed in. With this comes the whole clone-feel too. You try a new game and recognise that you've done it all before, just with a different setting. But there's alot of upcoming games with ideas more reminding of where the genre started, or just different. Even the most unlikely to make it out of these games have got devoted fan scores proving that people want something more. So far there's been cancelled projects or delays, but hopefully we'll have a few of them available providing viable options to have some proper fun.
On alot of forums you can note the average age just by looking at the amount and nature of replies from people who has yet to learn when to just dismiss someone's disagreement with yourself and instead walk away from the discussion not letting it turn into a contest to "win" the thread.
You know its funny. I have never noticed alot of leet speak or txt speak or what ever you want to call it in EQ2, Im not saying it not there or it doesn't bother me, I just really haven't seen it. I try to stay away from doing any of it. I must admit I still use ones like, lol or afk or brb. But thats about it. I have a hard time believing anyone would use "ne" or "lft" for any or left, I mean really in any game Ive played lft was Looking for Team and come on ne ... NE what the hell is that, that would be harder for me to type because its just wrong, theres no e in any and to on purpose spell something wrong like that is stupid, just slap an a and a y and your all good.
So I was just wondering to what extent does this txt speak bother you. If someone said lol would that bother you?
The only thing I think would bother me is if someone got into the whole mixing letters and numbers to make words, that just seems stupid to me.
It is the lack of respect, what I am missing here. If I want to talk to other people, I try to make it as easy as can be for them to understand me. I do not try to make them upset by using wierd words like those 1337 words, which are even harder to read if you are not a native english speaker at all. I can read english texts pretty fast and easily, but those 1337 texts are like I would be in kindergarden, trying to find out what a world is like by identifying every single letter of it.
And this is what I would call a lack of respect ... 1337 speech is respectless kiddies crap and people talking like it should be put on the ignore-list immediately - I do so.
Ragosch
I would definately have to say I agree, on pretty much all accounts. Walking around seeing words that I can't even understand because I don't take the time to study leet lingo drives me crazy. Not to mention the games where people think that whoever says the most insults the fastest is the winner (bonus points for spelling them creatively).
It does seem like gaming is slowly going downhill, but I'm hoping it makes a comeback with some of the new games being released. There are some non-combat MMO games as well and probobly in the near future some permadeath ones, which will probobly frighten away people who dislike full sentances.
The most mature games i've seen so far would probobly be EvE (even if I hate the game, it still had the best community), Saga of Rhyzom, and Phantasy Star Online (for the most part. PSO tends to be mature most of the time, but when somebody shows up that's immature, they're REALLY immature). Most immature would probobly have to be, again, WoW. I'm waiting for Phantasy Star Universe to eventually come out, although with all the pushbacks, no clue when that's going to be.
I'm a 33 year old gamer myself and when people talk to me in that text/1337 (whatever) speak I do what any mature adult does..... I make fun of them. lol
Just kidding, I do find myself talking like someone's dad when confronted with really poor grammar or those who go overboard with that gibberish text.
As for the maturity issue I agree maturity in mmorpg's seem to be on the decline. I don't believe that we're getting any older or less tolerant of younger players. Then again I'm not sure where this lack of respect for fellow gamers stems from. It does exist and the way I personally handle it is black listing, blocking, etc etc. I'm not about to let kiddies ruin my love of rpg genre games that stems back from the game "Adventure" on the atari back in 1978. (the 3 dragons looked like ducks and your sword looked like an arrow heh heh)
I encourage quality gamers like the people who posted on this thread to do like one guy earlier suggested: screen your guilds, linkshells, clans for mature players and give the "kiddies" the boot!
On a sidenote before I close, I believe the term "kiddies" refers to a mental age not a physical one. There are several well spoken gamers I've played with that were high school and a few that were in their 20-30's that acted poorly.
Good luck to all of you my fellow gamers and I hope to play along side people like you guys in the next game I immerse myself in.
Can't we all just get along
Az, do you even know where this standard phrase comes from?
I agree about having to put up with kiddies. I remember one kid in FFXI talking about how he was worried b/c he had a lump on his testicle. I mean come'on we dont want to hear about this.
Whats really bad are the 30-year-olds that still act like little kids.
I'm 31, and this whole topic isn't just online. It seems like everywhere I look, there is a growing number of people that can't speak very well, are completely disrespectful, and pointlessly agressive. I always thought that it was me changing rather than the world around me. I grew up and the rest of the world didn't. I look around me now, and I see the world the same way that my dad must have seen it, and his dad before him.
If it is the world that I live in then I chalk it up to a simple observation about rats made in ancient China. You see, rats that live in graneries are more aggressive than rats in the wild. This observation led to the first book burning in history, but knowledge isn't grain.
People that have too much are more aggressive than people who have too little. Most of the people that play these games are well above the poverty level and have both cash and time to burn. Coincidence? I think not.
As far as seeing "l337" speak online, I just ignore it. I don't say a whole lot online or in-game anyway.
Oh yeah, your post brings back bad memories. What a stupid community.
WoW is a pandemic plague in the world of video games and there's no cure in sight. When you consider that approximately half the players are under 18 and live in the USA, it's seems even more hopeless because that segment of the American population doesn't have any notable mentors who stand for the advancement of the arts and the importance of learning history. Those are the only things that could save most of them from being led up the corporate path of high credit card debt and political docility to a version of the American dream that resembles the world described by George Orwell in his novel 1984. WoW is the perfect MMORPG to help promote ignorance and indifference among teenagers, and everyone from the corporations to the banks to Democrats and Republicans will do nothing but grease Blizzard's wheels for a job well done. Meanwhile you, the humanist shmuck, are trying your best to explain the proper useage of "there", "their", and "they're" to someone in the Barrens while he's waiting in the queue for Battlegrounds. He'd like to insult you and score some points with the Barrens crew but someone else already called you a "grammar fag" and he can't think of a topper.
There's something else to think about when looking for the reasons why the WoW community seems so stupid. Notwithstanding anything I've written in the previous paragraph, it's not a capitulation to allow that the tender ages of many players account for a lot of the nonsense in chat and forums. How clever were you at 14? LOL You know what I'm saying.
Good post, Rekindle, it prompted some of the best thinkers here to reply, and a few "grammar fags" like me.
PS: Enjoy the day when you hit the big three-O because it only gets worse.
Az, do you even know where this standard phrase comes from?
Is the phrases origin going to affect its meaning?
lol, i don't think so, but using a phrase that you don't know the origin of makes for an ironic defense of immaturity
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
By age 30, I will either be making games or doing something else in this world. I already feel some shame playing at my current age. Maybe you are a dying breed or maybe you're just finding a new sense of awareness. I honestly, thought the days in UO were horrible, SIF! OMG! WTF! GHEY! But, I hung around minoc alot.
There needs to be a MMORPG that is completely different and, doesn't chase ever popular fad that comes down the line, a game that doesn't require 70% of your life to enjoy. Will there ever be a game such as this? Can any MMORPG actually say their game is original anymore?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
agreed.. im not as old as u lol ur ancient :P
but i am sick of kiddies playing mmorpg's.. they ruin it big time! they should play 1 player games untill they have enough brains to play with us :P
kids swear start fights and act like the biggest nub cakes in mmo's