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MMORPG.COM News: Column: Outside the Box by Nathan Knaack
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Every Monday, Nathan Knaack - formerly of Rapid Reality - will contribute a column to the site. Over the first three weeks, Nathan will look at the past, present and future of MMORPGs. Today, we begin with the past.
| Its not difficult to trace the birth of the MMORPG back to its ancestors, but instead of diluting this essay with an array of links, Ill go over it one more time. The great granddaddy of all RPGs is, of course, Dungeons and Dragons. Originally conceived as a tabletop medieval war game, not unlike what Warhammer is today, they (Gary Gygax and his partner, Dave Arneson) found that the game was much more enjoyable when they controlled individual characters instead of entire squads, battalions, and armies. It was more interesting to follow the battles and adventures of a single person, like the main character of a novel. Additionally, they discovered that battlefields werent the only place that a hero could shine; taking a cue from Greek, Roman, Norse, Native American, African and Asian epics, the classical hero actually did most of his legendary work in dungeons, mountaintops, or throne rooms. Heroes didnt just conquer opposing armies and lead troops; they slew dragons, rescued damsels in distress, and challenged villains to duels. This is the birth of what we have come to know as the RPG character, which is the most essential, core piece of the role-playing game. To play a role, you must have a character. Im not talking about having a strength score, a laundry list of weapons, and the words armor class jotted down somewhere on eraser-worn loose-leaf paper; thats just math and logistics. A character is a personality, a set of mannerisms, and a moral code. Its the rollercoaster of history, the voice you use to portray him or her, and all of the motivations that steer his or her decisions. Its everything about the role youre playing thats not written down on paper. |
You can read his article here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
No mention of arcade games or for that matter all the non internet fantasy and sci fi computer games from Eye Of The Beholder 1990 to Morrowind 2003.
It is like saying Christopher Columbus discovered America and then there was the Vietnam War. A hell of a lot of history between D&D/ Advanced D&D (including Traveller which was the original sci fi role playing game and thus the granddady of EVE) and the PC home entertainment revolution.
Maybe I have missed the point of the article or jumped the gun?
This is my own history of role playing
D&D 70's, AD&D 80's, RUNEQUEST, TRAVELLER, arcade games any, ELITE 90's, EYE OF THE BEHOLDER, X-COM, FORGOTTEN REALMS, TOTAL WAR, MORROWIND - MMORG= EQ/PROJECT ENTROPIA/GUILDWARS/CITY OF VILLAINS.
Having read other viewpoints I also wanted to add that at the time as a DM (for most of the eighties) for several games (AD&D, Runequest, Traveller, etc) I had some great experiences with my friends. Yes, our only limits were our collective imaginations. However computer (solo and net) gaming is a far more intense experience as more bodily functions are used. Vision, dexterity, tactics, etc are more stimulating than rolling dice and I for one prefer the role playing of today over those halcyion misty magical days...that aside, it is great article for nostalgic reasons.
Ditto, that is why I hope Seed (shameless plug) is different. Since we will be having an effect ont he world. I just hope I don't become too disenchanted if the game doesn't live up to my expectations. So far beta is great.
Overall I loved the article but as mentioned previously it seems to have skipped soem steps in interent tgaming history. Perhaps it was done to save time and space, maybe not. I'm just glad there was mention of Meridian 59 at all, since most gamers have no idea just how old MMOs really are now.
I'm glad to see Nathan around. I was wondering what he was up to since he left RR, and now I see he's at least writing a little here. Good deal.
I've been thinking about MMORPGs lately in terms of P&P vs. LARP. While they may have roots in the former, the very best parts have a lot more in common with the latter. I think that making choices in character is much more interesting than rolling dice, even when those things happen together. The less visible the dice rolling (the numbers in the game), the happier I am. The more interesting and vital the social interactions are, the happier I am. I'm looking for a game that weds the game mechanics to the social mechanics.
I guess that's what I liked about pre-instancing EQ-- on my server, at least, there was all kinds of back-stabbing and rumor-mongering at the high end, when there was hard competition for those valuable targets. The metagame was more fun than the actual game. It would be nice if that WERE the game.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Interesting. I agree with the sentiment that MMORPG's lack story telling; they frequently have stories but the average player is either only a bystander or player #XXXX to experience it. They need to grow and change with dynamic enviroments and unique quests that trigger other unique quests for other people. Living breathing worlds full of majesty and wonder as well as gloom and terror. Currently all we have is The Grind.
As the old Dragon Magazine cartoon went: "Kill a monster and steal its treasure. Kill a monster and steal it's treasure. I think I'm in a rut"
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
God article Nathan brought back the good old days for me for sure. Although I thought Archmage actually evolved before Meridian 59 but I could be wrong. Played both of them just not sure which one first. At 40 years of age I remember all too well the pre-internet, world wide web days of BBS and MUD'S. I also drift back to the good old days as a youngster in my buddy's basement playing PnP. We had games that would last 2-3 years and what a great DM he was.
Heh, he used to were this giant pin the size of a coffee mug bottom that said "I am god!" and man you better have believed it when he was running the show. Of course it went to his head but he was still awesome DM and creative as hell. I truly miss those days and I have been grinding these MMORPG's since Archmage and Meridian and to me they have become stale anymore and lifeless. The same old grind, rinse/repeat, over and over again. I honestly think I am totally burnt out on the MMO scene all together.
This year will be a good year for RPG's (single player/LAN) and I look forward to several releases but no matter how you slice it nothing will ever compare to a PnP sit down with friends. No one has ever been able to recreate the essence of PnP and no one ever will. I don't remember all of our adventures mind you that was many, many years ago and 80% of the time we were half-baked as well. Back then however, DnD was new and exciting and kids and young people think it's big today heh, they should have seen it at it's pinnacle.
I remember when the pewter characters first started coming out and we were collecting them. It was our first visual experience as we set them down before us that gave us a idea of how we thought we looked etc. I wish at my age today I could find a good PnP group in my area, I know there are PnP games being played online but it's just not the same. The comradery and the passion and ingenuity of a awesome DM cannot be beat in person.
Enough of my banter look forward to more of your articles.
Peace
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Great article!
Yes, the ROLE in roleplaying was left behind. Maybe we should call those MMORPG's for MMORCPG. Funny enough even the designers of certain games dont get it. Asked the question about RP, the answer is "Oh, yeah, you can choose between that-and-that many faces and haircolors etc and we have levels"...thats it. Real face-to-face rpg campaigning cannot be recreated in massiv online games.
And just like when you first encounter p&p rpg's, as I did with 16, the rules, the combat and all is incredibly fascinating, just like MMOG's are. But MMOG's stop here, while p&p rpg only just are started. I know, Nathan knows and sonicbrew knows, I see
.
So, all you people who dont know, try it, try it, try it.
Norden
PS: He, sonicbrew, I am turning 40 this year myself and I know EXACTLY how you feel.
Norden
Although brief he has hit the nail on the head.
The world is not affected by your actions in an mmorpg where it would have been in P&P. I pray for the day when a MMORPG with a dynamic world comes but fear I will shuffled of this mortal coil by then.
The only other problem will be when this happens it will be seriously addictive.
Yes, indeed it will be very addicting. I'm too young to know about the roots of MMORPGs, but I'm glad to have gotten a piece of it now. I'm kind of a hybrid mix. I LOVE the roleplay, but too few others in MMOs that I play do as well, or focus enough on it to be worth it in the game. However, I don't mind every now and then getting to beat the crap out of something and earn awesome rewards, but once again, it would be worthless to me without the experience behind it, not to mention I mostly enjoy MMOs when I get to play with other people, rather than soloing, but so many people focused on the grind...where's the story and non combat fun?
SWG had lots of this, in my opinion. The hybrid of class/skill based system was unique to me, but it was one of my first MMORPGs. Regardless of which, it had loads of combat and non combat content just from the skill system. Granted it was incomplete really when released, and even further mucked up by SOE, a shinning example of what one posted in reply to the franchise MMO debate, that a franchise released as an MMO with an existing fan base does not need to be high quality to make quick money. It was still something I was looking for, and spent more of my time roleplaying with other playres and focusing on building my character's character, rather than his skill base. I felt that with my mix of combat and non combat skills, I could actually play a role, and even use my skills as a trade to be "hired" for certain things that required skills other players did not possess. Also, these non combat skills were widely dispersed between purely non-combat classes (like the merchant) and some hybrid classes with non combat and combat skills (like smuggler) so there was a wide variety with limitations only on your 250 skill points. The game had potential, but SOE just didn't bring it up to that.
After that I've filtered myself through many MMOs, mostly free ones I found off this site =P, searching for that unique experience and quality I haven't been able to find yet. I more enjoy content over content. My meaning of course, is I'd rather the developers focus more on making an MMO full of rich and deep stories, abilities, and developments that are vastly player molded rather than making combat and getting to be the best of the best. Content over content...ah well, maybe some will get what I mean, but whatever =P
Thank you for showing me Seed, I had not seen that before and it sounds like exactly the kind of thing I've been looking for. And it's sci-fi to boot! I got into the RFO beta but again, this has a rather boring story background and it's a primarily PvP based game, so I don't think I'll have much fun with it, I just wanted to test out Mechs =P
Anyway, for any of ya'll who'd actually be interested, I'd like to share a few ideas of what I'd like to see happen in an MMO. Seed is definitely a step in the right direction (given the game will live up to the potential it has based on the description, the idea behind it is good, but I must experience to test it out first of course =P) but I'd like to see a lot more happen.
Imagine a world where even the physical landscape can be carved by events driven by the players that participate them. Active NPCs that do not give out the same quests to every person, but instead, has thousands, millions of tasks that it may give you. Imagine that each server has it's own unique mark because from the start, it has been shaped based off of what choices the player makes. A new realm, with few areas, but it expands economically and new towns start being built. Players want to start a town and amass NPCs and other players alike to come with him/her and find a location, build the town, and live in it. A system where no levels are required, purely skill based, and the driving force between player cooperation overpowers player competition.
Imagine the line between good and evil can be crossed easily by players. A player wishing to amass an army of NPCs and players alike to lay waste to the lands before him/her and take over completely, forcing players and NPCs to fight back and end this evil reign and restore peace to the land. Imagine the aftermath of such battles leaves NPC and players towns alike in ruins that must be rebuilt, refugees in other towns now have tasks for you to retrive lost memiors from their past. You may visit the ruins of old towns that weren't completely leveled where new creatures have arisen and taken home to.
Imagine a battle of epic proportions, where the icy magic freezes and kills the plants, the fiery explosions lay waste to hillsides, reshaping that land forever (or modern/sci-fi settings causing this as well). The environment is completely interactable, you can even pull up a patch of grass.
Imagine the changing weather and seasons, random catastrophies that you could witness just by being out exploring the world. The landscape and environment will be constantly changing on micro scales to create macro differences.
These are but a few ideas that I have and wish to see in an MMO. One where it evenly balances that of story and adventure with combat and competition. Either way, I probably will never see it within my lifetime, but you never know. Thanks to all those who read. I do so love exchanging ideas ^^
That makes about as much sense as it ought to make sense which is that it makes sense for it to not make any sense at all.
Aurora, 4x Gaming
Hi All,
To Quote Nathan Knaack:
------------------------------------
"The great granddaddy of all RPGs is, of course, Dungeons and Dragons. Originally conceived as a tabletop medieval war game, not unlike what Warhammer is today, ..."
------------------------------
Actually the origin of Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson to create that tabletop mountaintop mininature game. Came from what many Military Officers (ala Generals especially in the 19th century) & Historians used to recreate mininature historical battles. It's akin to what fisherman that create their own bait lures as a hobby. But these hobbists in the military or historians smelted the little mininatures themselves and painted them. Usually creating the tabletop landscape from recorded literially depictions.
The reason i bring this up, with the grand daddy's of the RPG genre sorta matter of fact got their cue from the earliest view of FPS combat, lol! If only FPS game developers can retrace their roots going beyond Gary Gygax & Dave Arnerson. Since those tabletop military men and historians understood battlion to squad based cohesion combat and tactics to a degree. Which is very much needed in today's game design of MMOFPS (Planetside or Huxley to come) or MMOSIM's (like WW2 Online).
Today's squad based combat especially in Realm vs Realm Pvp game design feels hap hazard to put it politely. If not all out FPS genres suffering from sufficient incentives to actually give face value to following orders from those with a higher rank ala Battlefield 2. (or other FPS game titles)
----------------------
The Older Gamers
Imagine it Kabol? I have reams, uh megabytes, of notes to that effect. Unfortunately I have the programming skill of a dead squid (in this case VRML doesn't count). One day, however, I shall endeavor to participate in the building of a dynamic virtual world. I have such beautiful plans... MWHA! MWHA! MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*ahem*
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
That makes about as much sense as it ought to make sense which is that it makes sense for it to not make any sense at all.
good article, i read the whole thing and rarely read articles , usually just "fact" pages about game features etc...
One thing i would like to see in the next article is to touch base on the asian market. (i'm not asian nor have i ever been anywhere in asia, i just want to know about it.) I mean, online gaming is HUGE in asia, and there wasnt a single mention of them in the first article. is this simply because by 1996 there was not a single asian online game?
anyways, good article, i hope you keep doing it.
Not sure about the asian market in 96 but in 97 when Ultima Online released we had plenty of asians flooding my server (Chesapeak) with levels 1s when their own servers were down.
We did the same thing off course in revenge
___________________________________________
Wasn't NWN out in 1991? Would that be considered a beginning MMO as well? It had 500 people at a time on it.
-doro
Great article.. I have been online since the MUD days and yes, we need a new way of doing it! My first MMORPG was Underlight (meridian 59 was too expensive!) - why does noone, when doing these retrospective articles, remember Undelright!! It is still going with a small core of fanatical players and it was the ONLY true role playing MMO out there.
I have spent a bit of time the last week in RF Online and it does have some interesting differences AFTER you get to level 30. I too am waiting for Seed... who knows... but I have been disappointed so many times.
Nathan talks about grind.. and how others dont have the levelling grind and aren't they great pioneers - I tried them too, including a lot of time in A Tale in the Desert.. but the grind there - while being different (hours and hours growing flax and vegetavles LOL) - is even worse!
*fingers crossed for a "different" MMORPG soon*
Mecaza
Let's see.. I bought my computer-before this using the then recommended spec of NWN as a guideline. That was October 2000. So no. NWN wasn't released until a few years later... 2002 ish.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
OMG Traveller,
"This is my own history of role playing
D&D 70's, AD&D 80's, RUNEQUEST, TRAVELLER,"
character creation was incredible, maybe more fun than the actual game.
I think my first foray to online gaming was with Trade Wars....never had much luck with other BBS games, not that my phone bills of the day reflected failure.
R
Let's see.. I bought my computer-before this using the then recommended spec of NWN as a guideline. That was October 2000. So no. NWN wasn't released until a few years later... 2002 ish.
Wrong NWN. Look it up.
-doro