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Veteran ranks..
Lord.Bachus
Member RarePosts: 9,686
I have heared all the complaining about veteran ranks being to slow leveling... Personally i don think its to bad, takes me about 20to 30 hours, to finish a veteran rank, and compared to good old EQ for example this isnt that bad..
i think the biggest mistake they made is having those 50 normal levels in front of it, ... If they would have started of with 7 more veteran levels for the normal content, it would have worked much better for most, having such slow leveling allows you to invest in your gear withouth having the chnace to outlevel it every hour or so...
i think i will actually miss the gearprogression after 1.6, i just love wandering around the zones and finding adventure behind every corner.
People expect to much from 1.6... Because after 1.6 you are still pushed to travel all the PvE zones including caves and dungeons, if only to gather all those skillpoints and those skyshards.... Sure you can now choose your own order, however playing the 3 continents in the orriginal order will be preferred by most, formstory reasons..
people complain as allways,mand i can allready hear the wining after 1.6 because there suddenly is no more gearprogessions after you reach level 50. And the people complaining about the veteran ranks have left the game long time ago, for most people still playing its all about the stories and quests, while for others its about the PvP... And all those PvE players will miss the Gearprogression..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
I agree that people are probably expecting too much from 1.6. Unfortunately the overall design is flawed, as currently demonstrated by the VR system, and simply changing this to an AA system (which is what the champion system is, in effect) doesn't solve the problem.
Ok, so you get champion points from whatever you do, but ESO isn't a game where you can grind dungeons for xp, and I don't think pvp gives a lot of xp either. Meaning you will still have to do the other 2 factions' zones for those champion points.
The only positive is that the champion points are account wide, so alts just need to reach 50 to be on the same footing as your main.
You still need to do that for your skillpoints.... Its not suddenly that the other faction areas are offlimit with 1.6.... You still need to go there to collect skillpoints and skyshards..... So that feeling does not change...
i dont mind them adding champion points, but skyshards and skillpoints are allready in the same boat..... The character progressions boat.. In less then 2 weeks people will be wining about the missing gearprogression, that got shelved with 1.6
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Collecting skyshards is totally different to having to quest through those areas being the "end-game".
Veteran ranks and having to quest through enemy factions as their lackey was a flawed concept considering the game is based on faction combat, is deeply story driven, and considering what happens to your character before veteran ranks. To be honest I don't understand how the idea made it past the gate. They are trying to find a workaround to make it more fun, but like you say there are issues with the change.
I do think of it in that context (a pvp/pve player). That is exactly why I think the veteran ranks idea was terrible.
From a pve/role playing game perspective the veteran system trivializes the main stories in each faction. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to go and do those other factions' stories on the same character who is a champion of your realm.
From a pvp perspective why the hell am I helping the other faction? They are my enemy! And why is a daedric lord defeating, dark elf emperor in the making running around helping the queen of the high elves settle her domestic disputes?
IT MAKES NO SENSE.
Your reasoning above has actually nothing to do with pve/pvp. You are saying it is good because it is convenient, with no respect for the game's lore or motivation. And that is precisely what I hate about the idea. It is so "un-gamelike", it pretty much destroys the game for anyone except those that don't give a damn about immersion in a game's world/lore/motivation and just want to grind through content to become powerful.
In a way it goes totally against the tone of the game until you get to level 50. Its just weird, and bordering on crazy to have implemented such a system at the end of what is up to that point an amazing immersive game. Nearly all the game's systems seem focused on immersing the player, throwing out many mmo norms, and suddenly they throw you this crazy curve ball at the end game.
What you don't understand that it is not just about the pace of veteran ranks but leveling into all opposing faction zones to gain those veteran ranks. It trivialize the content and feels very cheap and lazy way to make end game content.
Using the other factions content was hardly ideal, but it is the way gaming is going. I am not a fan of it myself, but the reuse of resources is now commonplace.
it does mean if like me you are a one toon player you get to see all the PvE content. But working for the other sides is a bit odd. If you are the sort who makes s few toons, it will seem more of a chore. But I have only done it once and found it a blast.
It allows me to enjoy the whole world on a single character.... Having played DaoC that was the other way around, i realise that despite not lore concistent, this is the most fun for me...
and while they will remove the veteran ranks, they will not remove the option to visit the opposing factions once you reach level 50, nor remove the neccesarity to do so ( as said, skillpoints and skyshards... ) Yes there are many skillpoints tied to quests, so you want to do those, and when you realise that those quests that offer skillpoints in generally are the main story quests, you will soon realise that what you call trivialising of content will still excist when the veteran system is gone...
so when will people start realising that this games PvE side of things is about exploration, questing and stories, and that for people that like those the veteran ranks are only a form of mild character progression....
so after 1.6 i will still be traveling the same path, but never have that feeling of finding new improved gear again, that little moment of instant happiness.... Because that moment just got ruined by removing the veteran ranks...
Problem i have with removing the veteran ranks is that it does not change the game at all for PvE players, it only removes the gearprogression and replaces it with championpoint progression...... We could have had both...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Reuse of resources is done since the dawn of gaming.
The whole point of object oriented programming is to re-use resources. So its a bit more fundamental than you think.
Indeed but now it is so obvious. I remember playing Dead Space 2 (?) and thinking they have just used the old ship and put white cloth over the corridors. Or the way you play zones from different ends in SWTOR, its blatant now.
I wish they had thought of a way to "reuse" that content (in ESO) in a more creative way other than just basically requiring players to run through all the quests in each faction.
This was the heart of the problem; it undermined the whole 3 faction set up.
I don't think "people" should "expect" anything from 1.6. Discuss sure but not expect. I don't believe they are the ones it is aimed at.
I see the focus being the console launch. About adding enough "change" to persuade reviewers to write new articles whilst addressing what Zenimax believe didn't go down well the first time around.
Do Veteran Levels fall into this category? Zen will have stats that show how many players did 1-50 but stopped "early" in the VR cycle despite having X days left of their initial 30 days. All we have were posts written around launch. Which suggested that something wasn't right.
After the console launch then I think people can expect.