[General Article] Lord of the Rings Online: Update 15 - A Valiant Effort from a Reduced Studio

SBFord · December 2014

While Lord of the Rings Online hasn't been around quite as long as other AAA MMOs, it's still been around long enough for the short attention span of the internet to proclaim it 'forever'. Launched in April 2007, the game has taken the Lord of the Rings story all the way to Gondor, with players getting to help Aragorn take on the Corsairs of Umbar. Update 15 also brings Beornings to the table, the first new class added to the game since 2008

Read more of Jean Prior's Lord of the Rings Online: Update 15 - A Valiant Effort from a Reduced Studio.

Erillion · January 2015

On to Minas Tirith and Mordor ...

Although i would not mind having an interlude (--> group content) were I pay a visit to Umbar to pay the corsairs back some of what I owe them (now that the mayority of their fleet and army is fish bait) ....

I agree with Jean Prior ... the game is still a good one, but the layoffs are being felt in the reduced testing and bug-hunting of any new content. It starts to feel like its on life-support, a bit like the years before the end of SWG. Maybe the IP is getting too expensive compared to the revenue generated by an aging, albeit still nice MMO.

Have fun

Archaegeo · January 2015

Plus now the last movie has come and gone, I don't see Jackson making the Simarrilion.

Zulika · January 2015

Turbine is long gone. This studio is WB Games Division.

fivoroth · January 2015

I don't care lrif content is buggy for some time.QA is good and all but having excessive QA requires too much of a time investment. I would rather see more content than companies spending months on QA.

Po_gg · January 2015

Spot-on review. Even if 15.1 fixed many things, it's true that the layoffs have their effects...

Beornings could've started at 50 as planned, but let's face it, most players would still go back for Eriador and Moria anyways, so it's maybe the better if they can play it on-level. (and everything is killed off too fast is not a beorning issue, since HD changes the lower regions are pretty easy to everyone - true, it's more noticeable with beornings since they can't switch to bear with the short fights)

"While the Beornings class was an interesting choice to add, it suffers from the fact that it doesn't fill a particular need in gameplay" agree. The 9 classes covered the game decently. Still, it has a fun mechanic, and also the movies are on the screen too

The letting go of Chance has a thread on the forum too, with an agreement that it's a bad move, his score is one of the foundations of the game... as you wrote too, the new music is, -how to put it- just generic, typical game score.

"thing that made it... wait for it... bearable" (honestly, when they occasionally start to fill /world with bear jokes I could strangle them with my bear hands. lol.)

"Tolkien's nearest analogue to a vegetarian hippie with anger management issues"

Razeekster · January 2015

People should really take a close look at WB Games Division and see how they treat their other games, and how their other games are quality wise. Then they will see why LotRO has gone so downhill lately.

Alomar · January 2015

I miss the game this was at launch and the potential it had. Unfortunately, after putting years of sub and game-time into it I ended up only disappointed.

Dreamo84 · January 2015

Always been a beautiful game. Very... Peaceful... Could have been much much more as more of a sandbox design.

I can imagine a game with features similar to Archeage but with the atmosphere of LOTRO... Dang that would be a world to live in!

MoonKnightt · January 2015

I saw a few posters proclaim that they would not be surprised if the game shuts down this year. Not going to happen. The license is renewed until 2017 and they plan to support it at least until then.

As far as quality support? That is a matter of opinion. For me it felt like they were adding just enough to the game to keep it afloat. But not enough to really improve it or fix things. It feels like they have a hamstrung budget and a limited staff.

The community of this game deserves more it's among the most passionate and friendly MMO communities around. Most MMOs would kill for such a community.

Yep Turbine and WB make it feel like they have not cared in years. Too bad. Some say it's because a bad game director for awhile. That the new one will be good for the game. Others are expecting nothing at all hanging on to memories over the years for staying.

Hope the people of this quality community can find a new game to gravitate too. It's one of the only (if only) MMO community I can look and point to while saying I'm proudly a gamer.

To the writer.

Also most of the players do not like Epic Battles (them and mounted combat the majority hates both). They want raids back. They used to be called Big Battles, but people started calling them boring battles. So turbine changed them to "epic".

druidsfire · January 2015

Originally posted by Troveaholic

Also most of the players do not like Epic Battles (them and mounted combat the majority hates both). They want raids back. They used to be called Big Battles, but people started calling them boring battles. So turbine changed them to "epic".

You can't actually speak for 'most of the players', since no one except Turbine has the numbers as to what percentage of players even use Epic Battles. The same goes for wanting raids back. I know there's a very vocal and yet very small subsection of the community who harped on the lack of raids for most of the past year during Sapience's and Frelorn's livestreams, but there is a simple fact of life going on here. Raiders tend to make up less than 10% of many MMO communities, although it varies by game. I seem to recall Executive Producer Aaron Campbell once saying on a livestream that theirs was about 5%. Regardless, in terms of building and designing content for an MMO with an extremely limited number of devs to make it, it's not good business to devote those resources to content that only 10% or less of your player base will ever care about or be willing to play through. Turbine knows where their players spend most of their time, so they're designing accordingly. They don't have the manpower to be everything to every kind of player. They picked and chose their battles, you might say. Yes, bad pun.

bucko333 · January 2015

"I seem to recall Executive Producer Aaron Campbell once saying on a livestream that theirs was about 5%. "

Biggest load of BS I've heard in awhile. Get your facts straight at least before you post your anti-raid narrative.

Athisar · January 2015

Originally posted by Troveaholic
I saw a few posters proclaim that they would not be surprised if the game shuts down this year. Not going to happen. The license is renewed until 2017 and they plan to support it at least until then.

As far as quality support? That is a matter of opinion. For me it felt like they were adding just enough to the game to keep it afloat. But not enough to really improve it or fix things. It feels like they have a hamstrung budget and a limited staff.

The community of this game deserves more it's among the most passionate and friendly MMO communities around. Most MMOs would kill for such a community.

Yep Turbine and WB make it feel like they have not cared in years. Too bad. Some say it's because a bad game director for awhile. That the new one will be good for the game. Others are expecting nothing at all hanging on to memories over the years for staying.

Hope the people of this quality community can find a new game to gravitate too. It's one of the only (if only) MMO community I can look and point to while saying I'm proudly a gamer.

To the writer.

Also most of the players do not like Epic Battles (them and mounted combat the majority hates both). They want raids back. They used to be called Big Battles, but people started calling them boring battles. So turbine changed them to "epic".

My feeling is that Turbine is doing the best it can but with limited (and increasingly limited) resources. Take the new Beorning area. It's a beautifully designed area, but it's very small and only has a couple of token quests before you're magically set to level 5 and transported to Archet. So it feels like they ran out of budget half way through.

druidsfire · January 2015

Originally posted by bucko333
"I seem to recall Executive Producer Aaron Campbell once saying on a livestream that theirs was about 5%. "

Biggest load of BS I've heard in awhile. Get your facts straight at least before you post your anti-raid narrative.

Okay. Here you go, here's the stream I was recalling from July: http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream/b/548151172, the pertinent info started at 6:30.

However, more importantly, the actual number mentioned was by Sapience in this post in June: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551097-Continued-discussion-from-SHIELD-transcript-RE-Raids-and-the-future&p=7190231#post7190231

So there are the facts I was recalling. Not too bad to remember a tiny detail in a sea of other content from over 6 months ago. The percentage was off, but the sentiment was accurate. There's your 'anti-raid narrative' straight from Turbine. Enjoy.

*mic-drop*

mattmac123 · January 2015

A friend told me Palantir (the private testing program before content hits Bullroarer) has been offline for months and the forums suspended.

Rheanon · January 2015

I used to play LoTRO and left about a year ago. I loved the game up to Moria. After that, it went downhill in my opinion.

My main complaint was that instead of making an interesting endgame, they would just release an expansion, increase the level cap and force one to grind all over again. This was done year after year. The template got boring for me after a while.

8bitBoy · January 2015

Originally posted by druidsfire
Originally posted by bucko333
"I seem to recall Executive Producer Aaron Campbell once saying on a livestream that theirs was about 5%. "

Biggest load of BS I've heard in awhile. Get your facts straight at least before you post your anti-raid narrative.

Okay. Here you go, here's the stream I was recalling from July: http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream/b/548151172, the pertinent info started at 6:30.

However, more importantly, the actual number mentioned was by Sapience in this post in June: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551097-Continued-discussion-from-SHIELD-transcript-RE-Raids-and-the-future&p=7190231#post7190231

So there are the facts I was recalling. Not too bad to remember a tiny detail in a sea of other content from over 6 months ago. The percentage was off, but the sentiment was accurate. There's your 'anti-raid narrative' straight from Turbine. Enjoy.

*mic-drop*

HAHA Well done. I enjoyed the early raids with my kinship but as the game went along I felt they were getting less and less fun and more and more technical. I don't think The Rift was ever topped. But since it went free-to-play it drew the casual gamer in and that killed big group raids which were already declining.

Still the game has endured, let's just hope they can last until the end of the War of the Ring. It would be nice if they could visit location like the Far Harrad and Erebor before they close shop, but I think the chances are slim.

Yamy1980 · January 2015

Correction: The beorning can stay in bear form a long time when using certain class traits & legendary legacies for it. I sometimes have to pop out of bear form on purpose to do use some skills & items that are man form only. Still it is no way similar to its wow cousin but a toattaly different kind of class. Also is quite fun to play once you have figure it out.

mazut · January 2015

Give me free server transfer and I'll go back and buy the new expansion. With the current fee per char, they can kiss my pony...

Po_gg · January 2015

Originally posted by 8bitBoy
Originally posted by druidsfire
Originally posted by bucko333
"I seem to recall Executive Producer Aaron Campbell once saying on a livestream that theirs was about 5%. "

Biggest load of BS I've heard in awhile. Get your facts straight at least before you post your anti-raid narrative.

Okay. Here you go, here's the stream I was recalling from July: http://www.twitch.tv/lotrostream/b/548151172, the pertinent info started at 6:30.

However, more importantly, the actual number mentioned was by Sapience in this post in June: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?551097-Continued-discussion-from-SHIELD-transcript-RE-Raids-and-the-future&p=7190231#post7190231

*mic-drop*

HAHA Well done.

Yep, nice riposte to the "anti-raid narrative" dude

Never got those folks... Turbine has all the data generating in the game (and data from the forum as well). If there are peeps from Turbine on one side saying something ("10% raiders and pvmp'ers combined" in this case), backed up with all the data available, and on the other side some raging forum posters dropping a /tantrum and /shakefist, yelling "it's BS, we're legion, just check the forums how loud we are" well... I'm not a Sapience fan, but honestly I think his and Aaron's statements are closer to the truth

Originally posted by 8bitBoy

It would be nice if they could visit location like the Far Harrad and Erebor before they close shop, but I think the chances are slim.

You can visit Erebor since the Rohan expansion (which arrived somewhere around the first Hobbit movie... coincidence? clever marketing? ), that expansion brought the Road to Erebor instance chain, with some nice 12-mans at the end. (though I think only if you have Rohan. For free you only can do the 3 lead-in instances, and those are just 3-man.)

Leafblades · January 2015

This argument has almost risen to the level of Republican vs Democratic tax changes.

The 'numbers' that Turbine has access to are put forth in a the vague terms of a percentage and a one-word qualifier of 'raiders'. When Turbine was asked to further clarify what 'raiders' meant, they did not respond. Was it anybody doing the 12-man raids? Completing them? 6 man instances? 3mans? Was it those who did it weekly? Bi-weekly? Ever? The percentage was a percentage of....active subscribers? All players who EVER played including those who tried it F2P for a week and went elsewhere? Current players? Current logins? They never elaborated. Likely a smart move as the initial statement was a real bonehead move that only caused more division and conflict on their forums and among the player base.

There's little doubt that 'Raiders' do not make up the percentage they think they do. Wildstar's struggles likely support that.

There's also little doubt in my mind that more than a 'small single digit percentage' group together to do group activities. A large number likely avoid 'raids' but enjoy 'small group' activities (3-6man) with friends.

The devil is in the details.

whoeverxwins · January 2015

Pretty spot on review, imo. I love the game, but the WB vampire can be increasingly felt as they try to suck all the money they can out of the game without putting much into a budget. Typical WB. That said, I do enjoy the Beornings, much more than I thought I would. I guess I'm used to the skills available at different times with my champ and hunter that the different forms thing doesn't bother me. I don't have a gaming keyboard, but I can point and click.

I just organize my most used man skills together on the left of my main skill bar, most used bear skills to the right, and the rest above them. Seems to work out fine for me. I have't gotten to mounted combat with them yet, but we'll see how that goes. It would be nice if we could get some new traditional raids/instances (even one?) in the game and less daily grind stuff at end cap, but it seems more and more MMOs are going that lazy route too. But with 6 alts in addition to my capped main, at least I have other things to switch to when the grind becomes too much.

Po_gg · January 2015

Originally posted by Leafblades
Likely a smart move as the initial statement was a real bonehead move that only caused more division and conflict on their forums and among the player base.

Most likely this, and that is why there were no further details. I think there was a post later that posting the 10% was a mistake (for the reasons you wrote too), and let's move on and forget that number.

They do have all the data, that's obvious. But also as a rule of thumb, no companies used to leak such infos about their customers. I agree it was a bonehead move still, I don't see why would it be a false number, just because it was said by Sapience. Not to mention they already communicated the same message since years, just not with a blunt, (bonehead ) way, rather saying stuff like "we're focusing on different things" and "it's not the priority currently".

Agree on WS, posted the same earlier on WS thread. Agree the "more than a 'small single digit percentage' group" too, even moreso I think there are plenty of players occasionally playing 6 and 12 mans too. Emphasis on occasionally. It's a fun thing to do, anyways.

But I have a hunch (not a fact or anything) that Sapience thought about the "hardcore" raiders / pvmp'ers, the ones with the main in-game activity is 12 / 24 mans and the Etten. Of course maybe I'm wrong. We can't tell and I'm pretty sure Turbine learned from the incident and we'll never see in the future such details and numbers about the playerbase

Leafblades · January 2015

Let me be clear, Pogg. I'm not saying the number was 'false'. But what the number was based on was never given and it makes a HUGE difference if you are talking 'current subscribers' or 'number of accounts ever created'. It's clear at the time that the number was being used to support a position by the CM who had a history of making oppositional and inflammatory statements. Numbers used to 'support a position' instead of 'objectively evaluate' tend to get skewed or slanted.

One of the puzzling thing for me is that the number argument came up at a time that Turbine was still creating group content in the form of Big Battles instead of classic instances. Arguing you were phasing out group content due to cost and low participation while still making new group content was contradictory. There were a lot of contradictory messages being sent at the time though. I'm guessing it was a rather chaotic and difficult time to work at Turbine.

Hluill · January 2015

Originally posted by Rheanon
I used to play LoTRO and left about a year ago. I loved the game up to Moria. After that, it went downhill in my opinion.

My main complaint was that instead of making an interesting endgame, they would just release an expansion, increase the level cap and force one to grind all over again. This was done year after year. The template got boring for me after a while.

Amen, I starting losing interest in Moria and gave up Dunland. I don't have a character high enough to even try any of the newer content.

Sovrath · January 2015

Originally posted by Hluill
Originally posted by Rheanon
I used to play LoTRO and left about a year ago. I loved the game up to Moria. After that, it went downhill in my opinion.

My main complaint was that instead of making an interesting endgame, they would just release an expansion, increase the level cap and force one to grind all over again. This was done year after year. The template got boring for me after a while.

Amen, I starting losing interest in Moria and gave up Dunland. I don't have a character high enough to even try any of the newer content.

I do and I am not really all that excited over, say, helm's deep.

I did it once and don't ever really feel like doing it again.

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[General Article] Lord of the Rings Online: Update 15 - A Valiant Effort from a Reduced Studio

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