B2P like GW2 has failed according to some internal reports over at NCsoft... I dont think any game will go that direction any time soon...
the future is subscription, which makes the most money, while in the future F2p will be nothing more then an extended trial that tries to trick you intoo subscribing to make money.... this is and will be the system used to give games a 2nd chance and a new start...
i dont think ESO will require a f2p 2nd chance, they have a comsole release comming up, which has allways been aimed to as the games real money maker.. So far the PC release has been the paid beta for this game..
It makes perfect sense if they want to generate more revenue. What is the easiest way to generate more revenue without doing much work? Eliminate the 180 day option that saves the customer about 9%. I bet there would be little lost in subs from this move and that the 180 day subscribers simple move to the shorter term subs. This move puts more money into the company's coffers. It's a business move and makes total sense. I don't see this as any step toward B2P or F2P.
This is the only possible logical explanation I could think of if they aren't going to shift business models. But why? It's not necessarily a revenue booster. Having players commit to 6 months generates more reliable revenue than having players commit to 3 months and then possibly cancel for a month or two until the next patch/update. It's much riskier for such a small potential revenue increase. Still it is a possibility. Has any other publisher ever done this?
Not that I'm aware of. To add, they didn't not have to remove the option if they wanted to change model. One more thing, Darkfall, FFARR, and Wildstar are still p2p...
Originally posted by Spydaz1 B2P Wud be cool cash shop for cosmetics not P2W
Yeah i can see B2P for this game. They should do this as soon as they can before people start losing interest.
Who knows what route ZOS will take, but If I had to guess I would think B2P also before F2P. I think the game can be easily set up with a cosmetic shop already since they have motifs and dyes in game. With a little extra work they could create new mount skins, sell more bank space, sell pets, lower the amount of character slots then sell more, etc. . Either way, I'm curious to see how this game pans out with new content and payment model once the console versions ship.
It makes perfect sense if they want to generate more revenue. What is the easiest way to generate more revenue without doing much work? Eliminate the 180 day option that saves the customer about 9%. I bet there would be little lost in subs from this move and that the 180 day subscribers simple move to the shorter term subs. This move puts more money into the company's coffers. It's a business move and makes total sense. I don't see this as any step toward B2P or F2P.
I don't think it makes that much sense. It's true that they "lose" 9% on every 6 months subscription, but it's also true that they have guaranteed revenue for 6 months too, which at least most companies find preferable. That's why cell phone carriers sell you cell phones very cheap but only if you sign for their service for a specific period of time.
The way I see it is that while it might or might not mean a change to B2P or F2P, it does seem to me that they're either planning or at least seeing the possibility of a change in their monetization method within 6 months, and are preparing for it in a way that prevents complains from people that still have time left on the old method. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean a change to F2P or B2P, might be something else like a decrease of the monthly fee, expansions, DLCs, maybe even a system to allow you to pay the subscription with in-game currency (if it doesn't have one, haven't followed this game too much).
I usually start by typing how I really feel about these types of articles then I delete it and type something nice as I figure whats the point, it won't really change anything, and this site and the writers have to make a living.
So I'll just say this, it's interesting how there's been no confirm or denial of F2P rumors and just like a lot of players think, one post being referred to as the reason for the 6 month change and being pointed to as the reason for the change by everyone 'except' other company employees looks strange.
PS
Interesting article.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Microsoft is still holding fast on their double online charge... IDK if that's enough of a reason for a switch to B2P. If it was me and I wasn't hurting for money, I'd just release it on the PS4 and let the XB1 players do all their screaming @ MS until they cave.
Regardless, I've thought the console release presents a good opportunity to switch to B2P. Whether they take the opportunity or not is a different question.
I'm also having a hard time buying the official reasons for the removal of the 6-month option. You don't remove the option because "few use it" - especially if you're doing it to get more revenues: WTF does it matter if it's "few" especially when those "few" can still keep renewing it? All you do is annoy people and make them wonder what's up.
Although IDK what it means, it IS reasonable to wonder why and not unreasonable to believe that some sort of big change is coming within 6 months of the removal... and I don't mean Update 6.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Players that had the 6 month option prior to it being removed seem to have been grandfathered in as people have reported to have had another 6 months auto renewed.
Originally posted by Vampero B2P like GW 2 would be great for the game. I'm waiting for it to be released on console.
same here, If the game is worth it i dont mind subscribing (i personally think it isnt worth the sub unless the amount of polish and content at least matches WoW's because they charge the same price.
As for the console version, i hope that by the time the console verison is ready the game will have enough content and level of polish to justify the sub. With that said, im not paying for PS+ to play a sub based game. I hope they offer one or the other, not both. But if it goes B2P id be happier.
Originally posted by Vampero B2P like GW 2 would be great for the game. I'm waiting for it to be released on console.
same here, If the game is worth it i dont mind subscribing (i personally think it isnt woth the sub unless the amount of polish and content at least matches WoW's because they charge the same price.
As for the console version, i hope that by the game the console verison is ready the game will have enough content and level of polish to justify the sub. With that said, im not paying for PS+ to play a sub based game. It hope they offer one or the other, not both.
You won't have to. SOE confirmed a long time ago that ESO would be playable without PS+. It's just XB1 that's holding out for both... now aren't you even more glad you picked the superior console like me?
(ducks and runs)
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It makes perfect sense if they want to generate more revenue. What is the easiest way to generate more revenue without doing much work? Eliminate the 180 day option that saves the customer about 9%. I bet there would be little lost in subs from this move and that the 180 day subscribers simple move to the shorter term subs. This move puts more money into the company's coffers. It's a business move and makes total sense. I don't see this as any step toward B2P or F2P.
A company doesn't have a 6 month sub option to make less money; they have it to make more money.
Yes the discount is "bigger" but they balance that against the subs they "retain" in the 4-6 month period that they would otherwise have "lost". People who believe they will be playing the game in the 4-6 month period but end up not doing. And when it comes to financial planning, budgeting and resourcing 6 months is a much better timeframe than 3.
There are transaction charge and cost of money reasons as well and the difference is smaller than it appears when you factor in taxes but "long term" retention is the key reason.
And seriously do you believe that Zenimax are so desperate for revenue?
As I said earlier this move gives them the option. And yes they could change business models without doing this but if they decide not to have a sub on console and people transfer from PC or they opt to end the sub on PC then not having to do refunds is far simpler and cheaper.
Can't wait to check this game out after update 6. I purposely told myself to not play until Veteran Levels ceased to exist and Justice system was added. I have wanted to log in for what feels like a year now, but when I do it should be epic!
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Never giving this game another dime of my money. I bought the game for $79.99 when it was on pre-order and once it released I played the first month. I let my sub run out after the second month was over then my pc was infected with a polymorphic virus and I had a huge mess with identity theft etc. I contacted Zenimax to ask them for help recovering my account and they said that my account had been sold on a website and then found as fraud on that website so my account had been perma-banned. I told them of my situation and they said "We have said all we are going to say, the account will stay banned and will not be unbanned or refunded in any way. Any further tickets that you create will be deleted".
Zenimax is a terrible company with even worse customer service and I can't stress enough how much of a risk you are taking when dealing with a company who cares that little for its paying customers.
In my opinion they need to let ex players have a free weekend every 2 or 3 months.
I was expecting to play ESO for years, I left due to PvP problems that my entire guild was experiencing regardless of ISP, PC setup etc.
I am NOT going to pay to try it out and see it's fixed, it might be in which case I will happily sub again, but I already feel like I have paid to beta test a lot of this game.
I think that a free weekend every few months providing things are now fixed, would get a lot of ex players to resub.
I would prefer this route on the PC. With the current update cycle, too many bugs are introduced in new updates, for example, PvP was unplayable for a few weeks a few months ago, they finally fixed it, a couple of weeks later a new update and it broke again.
Having updates every 3 months would mean even if game breaking bugs were introduced that took a few weeks to fix, we would still have 2 - 2.5 months of a working game to enjoy ourselves before worrying about the next update, rather than the current situation of things breaking almost every 6 weeks.
Originally posted by Vampero B2P like GW 2 would be great for the game. I'm waiting for it to be released on console.
but then it would become a dull no real content update game just like GW2. 2 years and what content dose GW2 have to show for it, No new races classes or permanent lands just some weak temporary living story? You want a game that basically coasts along making minor changes now and then then yes B2P can work. You want Frequent changes, and devs actively working on major steps to improve the game then your gonna have to pay with for it in some form more then GW2's cash shop. Just my 2 cents
yeah i think so too, though gw2's cash shop has been a little more savvy as of late (better for the company i was really impressed to see how much it has been expanded ) hopefully it starts giving them enough cash to implement real content.
Normally i am one of these people who only read instead of write
"Every!" firm in the world just wants ..... yes our money ..... so, if some of you bought the 6 month subscription .... and you even play for 1h only ..... then everything is in perfect balance .... because you PAID ...
Soooo to make it short .... a firm "never" put away a method for getting money , even if nobody buys it .....
this is the preparation for the F-2-P version ladys and boys :P .... because when they CHANGE in 2 - 3 months ... you ALL would be pissed if you have paid for 3 months more
Money back ??? ... yeah like disney star wars .... Not for me
and i am german and drunk .... so sorry for grammar ....
Once you have a cash shop its only a matter a time before a MMO becomes pay-to-win. If I am wrong name the game that started with only cosmetic items and that's all they had a year later.
These days they usually start with XP potions and other gameplay altering items and they never get better only worse.
Ok, now try to make the argument that XP potions are P2W. P2Advance? Sure. P2W? No. Unless there are people out there who jump up and down yelling, "I won!" when they reach max level in an MMO.
I very much doubt ESO will go down this route. But why is it P2W? Well if your ten levels up on another guy through buying potions and you meet him in Cyrodiil with your extra skills that's P2W. If you get into raids first because you got to top level by buying potions that's a lesser form of P2W as well.
Trial accounts is planned, we work on fan-localization and we found some interesting strings in game client at version 1.5:
Account type is not set to allow group creation. Disabled on trial accounts. Whispering disabled on Trial accounts. Trial accounts may only whisper to friends. Guilds disabled on trial accounts. Trial Account
So, trials account is planned and already developing, just wait some time
Best business model for both players and developer would be B2P + paid DLC, like Destiny, IMHO. Of course, provided that the base game is solid and complete (which Destiny certainly isn't).
This model would also provide most initial revenue for developer/publisher while forcing them to create quality updates in order to obtain more revenue from DLC's. If Destiny could sell over 10 millions of copies, Elder Scrolls game should be able to sell 20 millions easily, provided it's B2P.
Relying on console players to pay sub fee for single game through several years in order to compensate low initial box sales (caused by sub fee) is crazy IMHO.
Once you have a cash shop its only a matter a time before a MMO becomes pay-to-win. If I am wrong name the game that started with only cosmetic items and that's all they had a year later.
These days they usually start with XP potions and other gameplay altering items and they never get better only worse.
Ok, now try to make the argument that XP potions are P2W. P2Advance? Sure. P2W? No. Unless there are people out there who jump up and down yelling, "I won!" when they reach max level in an MMO.
I very much doubt ESO will go down this route. But why is it P2W? Well if your ten levels up on another guy through buying potions and you meet him in Cyrodiil with your extra skills that's P2W. If you get into raids first because you got to top level by buying potions that's a lesser form of P2W as well.
Cash shop items like xp pots, run bonuses etc. etc. are P2W in a PvP environment.
In PvE "pay to advance" sums it up. The exception - if available - might be amongst those going for world firsts etc. - although with people streaming this stuff because of the "I don't believe" comments that usually follow I am not sure whether this would be used.
Not something I use or feel the need of but not something I have a problem with either.
It makes perfect sense if they want to generate more revenue. What is the easiest way to generate more revenue without doing much work? Eliminate the 180 day option that saves the customer about 9%. I bet there would be little lost in subs from this move and that the 180 day subscribers simple move to the shorter term subs. This move puts more money into the company's coffers. It's a business move and makes total sense. I don't see this as any step toward B2P or F2P.
good catch.
Except that is not what they said,they said NOBODY was using it or of course VERY few.What i would like to know is why on earth of all the things happening all this content in the works would they even bother to spend any time at all removing something nobody was using,why just ignore it,it's not like it bothers anyone with that option just sitting there,it made absolutely no sense at all.
I a kin the logic to example your family is hustling and bustling to go on a 2 week vacation,then someone says oh wait we need to clean the lawnmower lmao,why bother with something that is NOT needed when they have all that work to do?It is not like some Joe smuck makes that decision,that is a decision that took some big shots to mull over,so again WHY? There is definitely something going on that we have to wait maybe 3 months for.
As to the Square ordeal that is maintained subs and Dragon Quest is not even over here and FFXI has only about 100k now so really there is about 800k on FFXIV a sub based game.Even during the hayday of Wow FFXI was a strong sub based game with about 300k players ,that being from a foreign developr with literally no marketing and hardly anyone even knew of the game nor even tried it.
None the less the 3 most successful games were all sub based games,for their era EQ2,FFXI and Wow.After wards many games hit million player plateau as they should,there were like 20+ million new gamer's that came about the same time as Wow.If games like Eq,FFXI and perhaps DCUO and Ultima had 30 million gamer's on the market they would have all had 5 million + and at sub fees.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Me either.
Not that I'm aware of. To add, they didn't not have to remove the option if they wanted to change model. One more thing, Darkfall, FFARR, and Wildstar are still p2p...
Yeah i can see B2P for this game. They should do this as soon as they can before people start losing interest.
you've been saying this for 9 months now....
Who knows what route ZOS will take, but If I had to guess I would think B2P also before F2P. I think the game can be easily set up with a cosmetic shop already since they have motifs and dyes in game. With a little extra work they could create new mount skins, sell more bank space, sell pets, lower the amount of character slots then sell more, etc. . Either way, I'm curious to see how this game pans out with new content and payment model once the console versions ship.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I don't think it makes that much sense. It's true that they "lose" 9% on every 6 months subscription, but it's also true that they have guaranteed revenue for 6 months too, which at least most companies find preferable. That's why cell phone carriers sell you cell phones very cheap but only if you sign for their service for a specific period of time.
The way I see it is that while it might or might not mean a change to B2P or F2P, it does seem to me that they're either planning or at least seeing the possibility of a change in their monetization method within 6 months, and are preparing for it in a way that prevents complains from people that still have time left on the old method. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean a change to F2P or B2P, might be something else like a decrease of the monthly fee, expansions, DLCs, maybe even a system to allow you to pay the subscription with in-game currency (if it doesn't have one, haven't followed this game too much).
What can men do against such reckless hate?
I usually start by typing how I really feel about these types of articles then I delete it and type something nice as I figure whats the point, it won't really change anything, and this site and the writers have to make a living.
So I'll just say this, it's interesting how there's been no confirm or denial of F2P rumors and just like a lot of players think, one post being referred to as the reason for the 6 month change and being pointed to as the reason for the change by everyone 'except' other company employees looks strange.
PS
Interesting article.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Microsoft is still holding fast on their double online charge... IDK if that's enough of a reason for a switch to B2P. If it was me and I wasn't hurting for money, I'd just release it on the PS4 and let the XB1 players do all their screaming @ MS until they cave.
Regardless, I've thought the console release presents a good opportunity to switch to B2P. Whether they take the opportunity or not is a different question.
I'm also having a hard time buying the official reasons for the removal of the 6-month option. You don't remove the option because "few use it" - especially if you're doing it to get more revenues: WTF does it matter if it's "few" especially when those "few" can still keep renewing it? All you do is annoy people and make them wonder what's up.
Although IDK what it means, it IS reasonable to wonder why and not unreasonable to believe that some sort of big change is coming within 6 months of the removal... and I don't mean Update 6.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
same here, If the game is worth it i dont mind subscribing (i personally think it isnt worth the sub unless the amount of polish and content at least matches WoW's because they charge the same price.
As for the console version, i hope that by the time the console verison is ready the game will have enough content and level of polish to justify the sub. With that said, im not paying for PS+ to play a sub based game. I hope they offer one or the other, not both. But if it goes B2P id be happier.
You won't have to. SOE confirmed a long time ago that ESO would be playable without PS+. It's just XB1 that's holding out for both... now aren't you even more glad you picked the superior console like me?
(ducks and runs)
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
A company doesn't have a 6 month sub option to make less money; they have it to make more money.
Yes the discount is "bigger" but they balance that against the subs they "retain" in the 4-6 month period that they would otherwise have "lost". People who believe they will be playing the game in the 4-6 month period but end up not doing. And when it comes to financial planning, budgeting and resourcing 6 months is a much better timeframe than 3.
There are transaction charge and cost of money reasons as well and the difference is smaller than it appears when you factor in taxes but "long term" retention is the key reason.
And seriously do you believe that Zenimax are so desperate for revenue?
As I said earlier this move gives them the option. And yes they could change business models without doing this but if they decide not to have a sub on console and people transfer from PC or they opt to end the sub on PC then not having to do refunds is far simpler and cheaper.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Never giving this game another dime of my money. I bought the game for $79.99 when it was on pre-order and once it released I played the first month. I let my sub run out after the second month was over then my pc was infected with a polymorphic virus and I had a huge mess with identity theft etc. I contacted Zenimax to ask them for help recovering my account and they said that my account had been sold on a website and then found as fraud on that website so my account had been perma-banned. I told them of my situation and they said "We have said all we are going to say, the account will stay banned and will not be unbanned or refunded in any way. Any further tickets that you create will be deleted".
Zenimax is a terrible company with even worse customer service and I can't stress enough how much of a risk you are taking when dealing with a company who cares that little for its paying customers.
In my opinion they need to let ex players have a free weekend every 2 or 3 months.
I was expecting to play ESO for years, I left due to PvP problems that my entire guild was experiencing regardless of ISP, PC setup etc.
I am NOT going to pay to try it out and see it's fixed, it might be in which case I will happily sub again, but I already feel like I have paid to beta test a lot of this game.
I think that a free weekend every few months providing things are now fixed, would get a lot of ex players to resub.
I would prefer this route on the PC. With the current update cycle, too many bugs are introduced in new updates, for example, PvP was unplayable for a few weeks a few months ago, they finally fixed it, a couple of weeks later a new update and it broke again.
Having updates every 3 months would mean even if game breaking bugs were introduced that took a few weeks to fix, we would still have 2 - 2.5 months of a working game to enjoy ourselves before worrying about the next update, rather than the current situation of things breaking almost every 6 weeks.
yeah i think so too, though gw2's cash shop has been a little more savvy as of late (better for the company
i was really impressed to see how much it has been expanded ) hopefully it starts giving them enough cash to implement real content.
Normally i am one of these people who only read instead of write
"Every!" firm in the world just wants ..... yes our money ..... so, if some of you bought the 6 month subscription .... and you even play for 1h only ..... then everything is in perfect balance .... because you PAID ...
Soooo to make it short .... a firm "never" put away a method for getting money , even if nobody buys it .....
this is the preparation for the F-2-P version ladys and boys :P .... because when they CHANGE in 2 - 3 months ... you ALL would be pissed if you have paid for 3 months more
Money back ??? ... yeah like disney star wars .... Not for me
and i am german and drunk .... so sorry for grammar ....
I very much doubt ESO will go down this route. But why is it P2W? Well if your ten levels up on another guy through buying potions and you meet him in Cyrodiil with your extra skills that's P2W. If you get into raids first because you got to top level by buying potions that's a lesser form of P2W as well.
Trial accounts is planned, we work on fan-localization and we found some interesting strings in game client at version 1.5:
Disabled on trial accounts.
Whispering disabled on Trial accounts.
Trial accounts may only whisper to friends.
Guilds disabled on trial accounts.
Trial Account
Best business model for both players and developer would be B2P + paid DLC, like Destiny, IMHO. Of course, provided that the base game is solid and complete (which Destiny certainly isn't).
This model would also provide most initial revenue for developer/publisher while forcing them to create quality updates in order to obtain more revenue from DLC's. If Destiny could sell over 10 millions of copies, Elder Scrolls game should be able to sell 20 millions easily, provided it's B2P.
Relying on console players to pay sub fee for single game through several years in order to compensate low initial box sales (caused by sub fee) is crazy IMHO.
Cash shop items like xp pots, run bonuses etc. etc. are P2W in a PvP environment.
In PvE "pay to advance" sums it up. The exception - if available - might be amongst those going for world firsts etc. - although with people streaming this stuff because of the "I don't believe" comments that usually follow I am not sure whether this would be used.
Not something I use or feel the need of but not something I have a problem with either.
Except that is not what they said,they said NOBODY was using it or of course VERY few.What i would like to know is why on earth of all the things happening all this content in the works would they even bother to spend any time at all removing something nobody was using,why just ignore it,it's not like it bothers anyone with that option just sitting there,it made absolutely no sense at all.
I a kin the logic to example your family is hustling and bustling to go on a 2 week vacation,then someone says oh wait we need to clean the lawnmower lmao,why bother with something that is NOT needed when they have all that work to do?It is not like some Joe smuck makes that decision,that is a decision that took some big shots to mull over,so again WHY? There is definitely something going on that we have to wait maybe 3 months for.
As to the Square ordeal that is maintained subs and Dragon Quest is not even over here and FFXI has only about 100k now so really there is about 800k on FFXIV a sub based game.Even during the hayday of Wow FFXI was a strong sub based game with about 300k players ,that being from a foreign developr with literally no marketing and hardly anyone even knew of the game nor even tried it.
None the less the 3 most successful games were all sub based games,for their era EQ2,FFXI and Wow.After wards many games hit million player plateau as they should,there were like 20+ million new gamer's that came about the same time as Wow.If games like Eq,FFXI and perhaps DCUO and Ultima had 30 million gamer's on the market they would have all had 5 million + and at sub fees.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.