Originally posted by Phaen I am a fan of the Sub model, keeps F2P terrorists away by that I mean those who's only enjoyment seems to be griefing others. Communities based on sub models have generally been much friendly a cooperative, which is kinda of the point of anMMO. I would say that varying sub fee's has a place, particularly for multiple game subs from the same company and I respect of play time. Also a B2P model with cashshop DLC, that way you pay for actual content rather than promised content on sub fee.
I don't have a problem with cosmetic cashshop items, but it never ends there and I won't play P2W, as there's no challenge in it. Why play if there's no challenge?
So, would you say that a game that charges $100 a month to play has a better community than one that only charges $15 a month? It does, after all, keep the lesser invested away... clearly they wouldn't spend so much merely to grief other players... or would they?
The argument that subscriptions keep the near-do-well away is a fallacy. There are just as many asshats with money as there are without.
While it is true that asshats are everywhere, it "feels" like the number is less of a percentage when there is money involved
That could be total BS, for sure, but it seems that I run into fewer asshats in MMOs that require some form of monetary output then in MMOs with no "gate to entrance." Maybe it is just the difference in the sheer numbers of players?
Yup, if people pay to play, then I guess they have a right to be whatever they want to be within the terms and conditions of a game. Can't say it makes it fun for everyone else should they chose to be anti social, but its quite clear that unless they find the game somewhat interesting, they are less likely to just create an account and grief people for the sake of it, where they have to pay for that privilege.
I don't think it matters how much the sub is, but in general having to pay by CC etc does put an age limit restriction for most, not say all kids are bad, as I have played many games with younger players in guild and most of them have been very good.
I just feel personally that requiring players to contribute by either buying the game and content updates, or game and sub will go along way toward showing investment in a game that you are looking to build on.
In short no. However I do think the subscription model needs to evolve.
The idea that a subscription should cost $15 and allow 1 month (30 days) of access regardless of how much time is actually spent playing the game is outdated. Publishers really need to consider $5 or $10 a month subscriptions, and even the option to pay by the hour.
Don't let them think of charging by the hour they wouldn't be reasonable. Geez sounds like a sex/psychic hotline. I would say $3.00 USA dollars is fair for a sub. You know they'll add a cash shop if you want one or not so just go ahead and let them add vanity to cash shop for extra income.
I don't mind paying a subscription. I find the problem for me is, none of the sub games I have played since WoW has felt worth the sub to me (that doesn't mean I didn't have any fun in these games btw). Too many promises not kept, too many bugs or issues not being resolved, and too much PR bullsh*t. It really irks me when the customers are expected to be patient and wait for these amazing changes that never come. How many times can we go through the same process?
If a company's game is SO GREAT that it deserves a monthly fee, allow the game to be downloaded for free. If the game is as incredible as you think it is, the subs will keep coming in and you will have happy customers for years.
I find that I prefer B2P these days. I have no regrets about buying GW2 or TSW. Sure, they have issues... but I don't have to keep paying a monthly sub for them. I also don't feel as if I need to log on, which I like.
At risk of sounding like an ass, I'm going to assume the following:
The people whining about all games not being F2P are teenagers/young adults who simply can't afford 15 dollars a month for 40+ hours a week in entertainment and don't understand what an obnoxious value that is. They would rather spend the money they get mowing their neighbors lawn on new skins and shit.
The debate shouldn't be about payment models... the debate should be about whether the game is worth playing.
For argument's sake, lets just say that every game out there is indeed "free to play". No hidden costs, nada. Bill Gates has decided to put his wealth towards free entertainment in third world countries and has graciously allowed us first world nations a free ride as well.
So, no costs involved what so ever. What remains? Is the game worth playing?
People will play almost anything if it is free. If it is not free, it better deliver something of redeeming quality, or heads will roll.
So stop with all the damn payment model debates and just get to the root of the real debate... which is...
At risk of sounding like an ass, I'm going to assume the following:
The people whining about all games not being F2P are teenagers/young adults who simply can't afford 15 dollars a month for 40+ hours a week in entertainment and don't understand what an obnoxious value that is. They would rather spend the money they get mowing their neighbors lawn on new skins and shit.
No, a lot of people who enjoy F2P games are people who either like to buy stuff in game for real money (and plenty of those are adults) , or play a certain game so little that a sub don't feel worth it.
I know people who rotate 5+ MMOs every few days and for them monthly subs don't really work or would at least bevery expensive for the time they play.
Me I don't mind paying sub fee (as long as they don't sell stuff as well, I pay the fees so I can get access to anything just by playing) but if a game is good enough I play it no matter what model it uses.
At risk of sounding like an ass, I'm going to assume the following:
The people whining about all games not being F2P are teenagers/young adults who simply can't afford 15 dollars a month for 40+ hours a week in entertainment and don't understand what an obnoxious value that is. They would rather spend the money they get mowing their neighbors lawn on new skins and shit.
No, a lot of people who enjoy F2P games are people who either like to buy stuff in game for real money (and plenty of those are adults) , or play a certain game so little that a sub don't feel worth it.
I know people who rotate 5+ MMOs every few days and for them monthly subs don't really work or would at least bevery expensive for the time they play.
Me I don't mind paying sub fee (as long as they don't sell stuff as well, I pay the fees so I can get access to anything just by playing) but if a game is good enough I play it no matter what model it uses.
This! I do a little of both. I only ever maintain a single subscription, but I have subscribed to WoW, SWTOR, and Rift in the past year alone. In addition to those, I will have a few F2P games I actively participate in. By and large, I don't really put that much money in them, but if it's something that I enjoy and there is reason for me to do so (like I want to group with my kids and want to be at the same level as them), but I might buy consumables, etc. for XP Boosts and the like.
If an F2P game relied on teenagers alone, they'd fold within a matter of months. It's the adults who really sink cash into them.
Comments
Yes.
It's an old model and it isn't going to see another EQ or WoW success story because the market is so saturated.
Companies will need to pick buy to play or ala carte pricing modules.
Every type will have a cash shop, that's just where we're at now.
Yup, if people pay to play, then I guess they have a right to be whatever they want to be within the terms and conditions of a game. Can't say it makes it fun for everyone else should they chose to be anti social, but its quite clear that unless they find the game somewhat interesting, they are less likely to just create an account and grief people for the sake of it, where they have to pay for that privilege.
I don't think it matters how much the sub is, but in general having to pay by CC etc does put an age limit restriction for most, not say all kids are bad, as I have played many games with younger players in guild and most of them have been very good.
I just feel personally that requiring players to contribute by either buying the game and content updates, or game and sub will go along way toward showing investment in a game that you are looking to build on.
That is certainly not true for f2p video games. And i don't see a problem if whales want to pay for my video games.
Don't let them think of charging by the hour they wouldn't be reasonable. Geez sounds like a sex/psychic hotline. I would say $3.00 USA dollars is fair for a sub. You know they'll add a cash shop if you want one or not so just go ahead and let them add vanity to cash shop for extra income.
I don't mind paying a subscription. I find the problem for me is, none of the sub games I have played since WoW has felt worth the sub to me (that doesn't mean I didn't have any fun in these games btw). Too many promises not kept, too many bugs or issues not being resolved, and too much PR bullsh*t. It really irks me when the customers are expected to be patient and wait for these amazing changes that never come. How many times can we go through the same process?
If a company's game is SO GREAT that it deserves a monthly fee, allow the game to be downloaded for free. If the game is as incredible as you think it is, the subs will keep coming in and you will have happy customers for years.
I find that I prefer B2P these days. I have no regrets about buying GW2 or TSW. Sure, they have issues... but I don't have to keep paying a monthly sub for them. I also don't feel as if I need to log on, which I like.
Having options is a good thing.
At risk of sounding like an ass, I'm going to assume the following:
The people whining about all games not being F2P are teenagers/young adults who simply can't afford 15 dollars a month for 40+ hours a week in entertainment and don't understand what an obnoxious value that is. They would rather spend the money they get mowing their neighbors lawn on new skins and shit.
The debate shouldn't be about payment models... the debate should be about whether the game is worth playing.
For argument's sake, lets just say that every game out there is indeed "free to play". No hidden costs, nada. Bill Gates has decided to put his wealth towards free entertainment in third world countries and has graciously allowed us first world nations a free ride as well.
So, no costs involved what so ever. What remains? Is the game worth playing?
People will play almost anything if it is free. If it is not free, it better deliver something of redeeming quality, or heads will roll.
So stop with all the damn payment model debates and just get to the root of the real debate... which is...
"Why in the hell would I want to play this crap?"
No, a lot of people who enjoy F2P games are people who either like to buy stuff in game for real money (and plenty of those are adults) , or play a certain game so little that a sub don't feel worth it.
I know people who rotate 5+ MMOs every few days and for them monthly subs don't really work or would at least bevery expensive for the time they play.
Me I don't mind paying sub fee (as long as they don't sell stuff as well, I pay the fees so I can get access to anything just by playing) but if a game is good enough I play it no matter what model it uses.
This! I do a little of both. I only ever maintain a single subscription, but I have subscribed to WoW, SWTOR, and Rift in the past year alone. In addition to those, I will have a few F2P games I actively participate in. By and large, I don't really put that much money in them, but if it's something that I enjoy and there is reason for me to do so (like I want to group with my kids and want to be at the same level as them), but I might buy consumables, etc. for XP Boosts and the like.
If an F2P game relied on teenagers alone, they'd fold within a matter of months. It's the adults who really sink cash into them.
Crazkanuk
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