It is not Indie because Chris is a long time vet in the Industry,hired notable staff and imo he likely had or has outside investors and never needed any of that funding.He is simply rolling in the dough now and doesn't care if it is warranted he likes money as we all do and will keep taking money from foolish spenders.
However if you take his initial plan and budget,then yes the game no matter who works on it would have resembled an Indie game.What i lol about is how people think the game will be any better now that he has a ton of money.If you think that,then you are saying he had no definitive design and is just winging it as he gets more money?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It is not Indie because Chris is a long time vet in the Industry,hired notable staff and imo he likely had or has outside investors and never needed any of that funding.He is simply rolling in the dough now and doesn't care if it is warranted he likes money as we all do and will keep taking money from foolish spenders.
However if you take his initial plan and budget,then yes the game no matter who works on it would have resembled an Indie game.What i lol about is how people think the game will be any better now that he has a ton of money.If you think that,then you are saying he had no definitive design and is just winging it as he gets more money?
being a "vet" in the industry has nothing to do with it either.
and more budget of course means more features, more fleshed out mechanics, overall more people and more content
I prefer getting the 70 million $ game over the initial 23 million $ scope game
Fact is the game is independent from any publishers and funded mostly by the players. Yeah they have 300 people working on SC but that is because of the player funding. Sometimes you have to wonder how these so called gaming reporters actually get paid for some of the stuff they come up with.
The start of 2015 has been practically bad for write ups on this site.
Like many others, i think "indie" and "independent" have become two seperate things.
Star Citizien is "independent", but not "indie" in the classic sense. And if they ever get it out of the door, they will stop being "independent" too, as they are now a big player themselves. Even if they still don't use one of the establish publishers. They will take on a role like Valve or Blizzard, making their own game and self-publish them.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
First we discovered that sandbox is an illusive concept.
Then we found that MMO doesn't mean what we thought it meant.
Next, we redefined what "pay-to-win" really means. Several times in fact, as the goalposts moved.
Latest topic for the revisionist discussion: "What does 'indie' really mean ?"
Originally, I believe that "indie" meant independent studio (i.e. not funded (or controlled) by a publisher or gaming conglomerate).
This usually meant that they were small and operated on a shoestring budget. Those are common features of independent studios, but not the reason why they are called independent.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Now we have to define what an Indie is? How does this site discuss anything at all?
Elite:Dangerous and Star Citizen are often compared.
Seems like the gaming (and business) press consider even Frontier Developments to be an "indie" still - although by the OPs definition their more traditional structure (working with publishers, listed on London stock exchange etc.) would disqualify them from being called indie.
Just wanted to point out that Star Citizen didn't start with Kickstarter. The website was there BEFORE they did a Kickstarter campaign. The Kickstarter was just to get a bit of additional funding and media attention. For example people that already backed on the website and then again on Kickstarter received the 'Electru Hull' upgrade for their account.
But back to topic: I don't think Star Citizen is an Indie, either. Not with that kind of budget.
------------------------------- Leg dich nie mit einem BAOD an, oder du bist selber dran.
Unless you're a hipster who just needs that Indy label slapped on the games you play I think most people would say they play Indy titles because they are the most innovative. Where most major companies release WoW clone after WoW clone Indy publishers have put out some really innovative MMOs such as Wurm, Darkfall, etc.
Star Citizen is EXTREMELY innovative. It's bringing out all the things space sim enthusiasts always dreamed about but never imagined they'd see in a game and making it reality.
That 69 million dollar and counting budget it what makes them actually able to deliver unlike other Indy titles which often never deliver on their promises.
So on that note here's the more important question than "Is Star Citizen Indie?" Why does it matter if it's indie or not???
As others may already have pointed out "Indie" is no new fancy hipster word without definition, its short for "Independent".
The SC guys got their big budget without a publisher hence keept their independence. Its a unique thing that has happend with them & while I hope something like that will happen more often I doub't we will see something like the SC crowdfunding repeating.
To me indie has always been revolved around being independent. More often than not, independent from a controlling higher structure, which gives them the ability to build the game exactly as they see fit. They don't have to listen to investors, publishers, etc. They follow their own path, they're being independent.
So for me personally? Star Citizen is definitely independent, or "Indie" in this case.
Is Valve Indie dev? In the end it's privately owned company, but on other hand it's somewhat a publisher in it's own right, worth massive amounts of money, runs the largest digital distribution platform for PC. At some point developer stops being indie.
It's quit mixed thing for which we should reserve term indie. I don't really agree on indie === independent. There is still studios that are independent, but do at least occasional work for large publishers. I wouldn't really call them indies even if they can make projects that are independent like Obsidian and Pillars of Eternity.
I would argue that what indie games mean today is small to medium projects made by smallish teams. Ofc there is lot of outliers, but in general it's more of certain culture to me.
Star Citizen isn't indie due to scale and budget, but it's still independent.
Part of the common criteria requirement is a small studio. When RSI started off their funding drive they would've been classed as indie. Now that they're a 280 person development team, international multi-studio setup with all sorts of crap to their name I think it's a major stretch to pair them with the moniker.
Cloud Imperium Games are an independent studio with no publisher or private outside investors, so yes, Star Citizen is as "indie" as it can be.
And also @mmorpg.com: Star Citizen didn't start on Kickstarter and had raised over a million dollars before even getting a KS project page. The initial goal was $2m without KS. As long as you don't get even those facts right I don't consider any of your coverage on this title as well researched.
Decide on a definition before debating. This is endless and pointless. It does not matter that their are many opinions. Weed out those who are wrong. Simple as that.
Independent only means one thing and how much money is involved means absolutely nothing. It is how the money is obtained at what cost (strings attached). Prove those strings exist.
Comments
It is not Indie because Chris is a long time vet in the Industry,hired notable staff and imo he likely had or has outside investors and never needed any of that funding.He is simply rolling in the dough now and doesn't care if it is warranted he likes money as we all do and will keep taking money from foolish spenders.
However if you take his initial plan and budget,then yes the game no matter who works on it would have resembled an Indie game.What i lol about is how people think the game will be any better now that he has a ton of money.If you think that,then you are saying he had no definitive design and is just winging it as he gets more money?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
being a "vet" in the industry has nothing to do with it either.
and more budget of course means more features, more fleshed out mechanics, overall more people and more content
I prefer getting the 70 million $ game over the initial 23 million $ scope game
Fact is the game is independent from any publishers and funded mostly by the players. Yeah they have 300 people working on SC but that is because of the player funding. Sometimes you have to wonder how these so called gaming reporters actually get paid for some of the stuff they come up with.
The start of 2015 has been practically bad for write ups on this site.
i think 50 million and more kinda disqualifies em in the indi race.
not sure why tho... just a weird feeling *G*
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
They are an independent game studio
Like many others, i think "indie" and "independent" have become two seperate things.
Star Citizien is "independent", but not "indie" in the classic sense. And if they ever get it out of the door, they will stop being "independent" too, as they are now a big player themselves. Even if they still don't use one of the establish publishers. They will take on a role like Valve or Blizzard, making their own game and self-publish them.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
This is exactly what I was thinking. Now we have to define what an Indie is? How does this site discuss anything at all?
Elite:Dangerous and Star Citizen are often compared.
Seems like the gaming (and business) press consider even Frontier Developments to be an "indie" still - although by the OPs definition their more traditional structure (working with publishers, listed on London stock exchange etc.) would disqualify them from being called indie.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-06-17-frontier-developments-240-people-and-still-indie
If the makers of E:D are being called "indie", then the makers of Star Citizen for sure are "indie".
Have fun
Just wanted to point out that Star Citizen didn't start with Kickstarter. The website was there BEFORE they did a Kickstarter campaign. The Kickstarter was just to get a bit of additional funding and media attention. For example people that already backed on the website and then again on Kickstarter received the 'Electru Hull' upgrade for their account.
But back to topic: I don't think Star Citizen is an Indie, either. Not with that kind of budget.
-------------------------------
Leg dich nie mit einem BAOD an, oder du bist selber dran.
Unless you're a hipster who just needs that Indy label slapped on the games you play I think most people would say they play Indy titles because they are the most innovative. Where most major companies release WoW clone after WoW clone Indy publishers have put out some really innovative MMOs such as Wurm, Darkfall, etc.
Star Citizen is EXTREMELY innovative. It's bringing out all the things space sim enthusiasts always dreamed about but never imagined they'd see in a game and making it reality.
That 69 million dollar and counting budget it what makes them actually able to deliver unlike other Indy titles which often never deliver on their promises.
So on that note here's the more important question than "Is Star Citizen Indie?" Why does it matter if it's indie or not???
As others may already have pointed out "Indie" is no new fancy hipster word without definition, its short for "Independent".
The SC guys got their big budget without a publisher hence keept their independence. Its a unique thing that has happend with them & while I hope something like that will happen more often I doub't we will see something like the SC crowdfunding repeating.
To me indie has always been revolved around being independent. More often than not, independent from a controlling higher structure, which gives them the ability to build the game exactly as they see fit. They don't have to listen to investors, publishers, etc. They follow their own path, they're being independent.
So for me personally? Star Citizen is definitely independent, or "Indie" in this case.
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Is Valve Indie dev? In the end it's privately owned company, but on other hand it's somewhat a publisher in it's own right, worth massive amounts of money, runs the largest digital distribution platform for PC. At some point developer stops being indie.
It's quit mixed thing for which we should reserve term indie. I don't really agree on indie === independent. There is still studios that are independent, but do at least occasional work for large publishers. I wouldn't really call them indies even if they can make projects that are independent like Obsidian and Pillars of Eternity.
I would argue that what indie games mean today is small to medium projects made by smallish teams. Ofc there is lot of outliers, but in general it's more of certain culture to me.
Star Citizen isn't indie due to scale and budget, but it's still independent.
"Indie" isn't synonymous with independent.
Part of the common criteria requirement is a small studio. When RSI started off their funding drive they would've been classed as indie. Now that they're a 280 person development team, international multi-studio setup with all sorts of crap to their name I think it's a major stretch to pair them with the moniker.
Cloud Imperium Games are an independent studio with no publisher or private outside investors, so yes, Star Citizen is as "indie" as it can be.
And also @mmorpg.com: Star Citizen didn't start on Kickstarter and had raised over a million dollars before even getting a KS project page. The initial goal was $2m without KS. As long as you don't get even those facts right I don't consider any of your coverage on this title as well researched.
I'm in good mood, let me do the work for you:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12738-A-Letter-From-Chris-Roberts
Time's the thief of memory.
Decide on a definition before debating. This is endless and pointless. It does not matter that their are many opinions. Weed out those who are wrong. Simple as that.
Independent only means one thing and how much money is involved means absolutely nothing. It is how the money is obtained at what cost (strings attached). Prove those strings exist.
You stay sassy!