Very good article and roadmap of what truly bold paths MMOs should take. Your points make lots of sense; I hope MMO developers can sniff the ball and run with it. Options, options, options is the diverse spice of gaming. Some might not like a feature but others will. Allow players the option. It's easy to trash a concept but takes more to take the chance of implementing them to see how it flies. I fully support companies that take the high odd road and hope we can one day see a list of those truly invested in VR like STEAM and SONY and monitor their progress. My personal view, apart any SAO or gaming biases, is that true VR sensory immersion tech will be as or more revolutionary than motion pictures themselves in applications beyond entertainment. The poignant Yuuki SAO episode gives us a taste of such ramifications which will very likely call for heavy government and legal oversights. If we thought rec drugs were addictive merely delivering one scrambled perceptions, imagine if one can do more than visit realities far more exciting and fantastic -- and satisfying -- than the reality our bodies dwell. This topic and issue fits very well here in its inspirations and models in the MMO universe.
SWG Pre-CU is the only MMORPG I've played that came close to some of these features. Players could choose to specialize in only social/crafting skills, only combat skills or a combination of the two. Crafters were a necessary part of the game since they made the best items with the quality of resources and the ability of the crafter making a difference. There were schematics and parts that were only available from the more difficult "dungeons" or "bosses" in the game. The need for the "social" and crafting professions meant players had to take breaks from grinding combat to interact with other players. Between player cities and the lack of player levels, people could play out the game as they wished including roleplaying, "taking vacations," or creating "families" because there was no rush to "endgame" needed in order to actually engage in mutually beneficial combat with friends or guild members. I miss these aspects in current available MMOs and hope that some of the sandbox games in development will bring these features back. I really enjoyed watching SAO due to the immersive aspect of the game they were playing (apart from how it also affected real life).
This site has got to get new writers. Seriously. Can't you guys figure out any possible way to convey thoughts without the cliched "X things....blah blah blah" format?
Main thing I would take from SAO is to give players a long term challenge.. I mean over a year in they aren't even close to clearing the game. Top players are on the 'front line', other players support (crafts etc.) and when a boss is cleared (one time only event in which many players can participate) it unlocks more of the world (new towns, dungeons, quest areas, etc.) for everyone.
Other points would be:
Permadeath, though realistically an X number of lives system would be better
Skill based combat, though gear and level are still important
Can solo (due to skill based combat), but much easier in a group (partly due to group combat mechanics)
PvP outside town, but hidden power level (even in group) and you are marked for attacking / killing players
Individual hidden loot, but ways to share
Useful points of interest spread throughout the entire world, i.e. pet resurrection shrine, powerful dragons lair with rare crafting mats
One time events with powerful (but no overpowered) reward items
'Discovery' based skill system, i.e. not everyone has access to all of the same skills
Might be nice to point out that the death thing in SAO is not a feature, it's a malicious hack, it's the whole point of the anime, the hack makes it that if you log out you die, and if you die ingame, you die too. The players are all moved in hospitals because they can't even feed or anything else b y themselves.
Coz, I mean, it sounds kind of moronic, the way it's put in the article.
In summary: Death in SAO was meant to be like in any other game, it's not even supposed to have permadeath, iirc, if you died, you were meant to get sent back to the nearest village, is what was supposed to happen.
I think that a plain permadeath server may be enticing, but that its a mechanic that may not appeal to enough of a general audience to have it appear in a major title. However, a legacy mechanic a la Realm of the Mad God or Rogue Legacy that would be tweaked for the MMO and perhaps based on how much progress you were able to make would be interesting. You wouldn't be starting over from scratch in that case, in that event you would actually have to die at some point in order to progress but the further you make it, the better your next incarnation would be.
MMO's (past, present and in-progress) with permadeath.
past:
Wizardry Online
present:
Salem
in- progress:
Origins of Malu
Shards Online (permadeath servers)
(That I know of.) I know you weren't saying there aren't any, but these are the ones I can think of that are, were or may be.
I liked SAO to some extend. Most it felt rushed and skipped the more interesting subjects to focus on cliché anime troupes.
But that is irrelevant so regarding the authors points:
5) Full-Immersion Virtual Reality is Awesome
No arguments there to be honest. The "technology" seen in SAO would be a dream come true.
4) Major In-Game consequences
I always liked punishing games (exp/loot/money loss etc) but before mmo developers can't really go for something like permadeath etc as a punishment. We first have to fix the internet and server structure for most mmos around the world. :P
3) Practical In-Game Specializations
Player driven economy sounds great on paper and I still think FFXIV 1.0 had the right idea. But sadly everything about it was clunky and poorly implemented that made it more of a chore.
Even though I still think the concept has great potential in letting players have different jobs besides the usual fighting classes. But it all has to be wrapped in a accessible package which I think is pretty hard to solve to make all activities as engaging as the next.
2) Social Investment
This is more of a player driven request and to be honest from personal experience it happens pretty often. Oddly enough I had this more in more of what you'd describe hardcore mmos than casual ones. By having greater challenges bonding with the players you are going to fail alot with was as important as being on top of your game.
1) Leave Some Things a Mystery
You have that when an mmo starts and nobody has seen most of the content. But as soon as more and more players reach the "end" the internet is usually flooded with more and more information.
The only way to ensure to have things like items/encounters/monsters etc a mystery is by adding alot of randomization. For example combat encounters. I guess we all have been there a boss encounter is interesting when you go in for the first time without any information. But as soon as routine kicks in and you know the ability rotation the whole experience falls flat. To counter that developers would need to give the ability for the boss to switch out abilties and use them in a random order.
I know this could lead to being completely unfair if a boss suddenly decides to do an unblockable AoE attack two times in row for giggles. But again this could be counter by implementing certain limitation to how often an ability could be used in a row or when certain % of Boss HP is left which abilties the Mob is free to use.
This would not keep the whole encounter a mystery but at least would it would stop the routine. Downside of course this would be a tough job to balance overall and put more strain on the game designers.
Sorry to say man but most of this is already done or out of developers control; unfortunately there is no formula or feature that will make players react a certain way.
Permadeath in an MMO has been done many times over and even permadeath-open world PVP (see Salem) - hackers and cheaters can ruin the game almost overnight and even a pay-to-play game can't stop people from cheating one way or another (abusing a mechanic for example)
Also your point on leaving mystery- a lot of people do not like mystery in a game and it is pretty much impossible to hide information from those who seek it. People will reverse engineer the game files and post any and all secrets in a wiki- but there is also streamers, youtube walkthrough guides- the best counter to this is dynamic instances; algorithmic levels that is different for everyone however even this won't stop people if there is money to be made.
VR as seen in the anime really isn't far in terms of technology- we already have computer chips that functions much like half the human brain. (Google TrueNorth) and there are also devices that allow you to play games with your brain (this video the guy sets up his game to use magic with the old Emotiv EPOC in the game "Son of Nor"
however I highly doubt we will ever see a true immersion GAME (let alone MMO) as there is too much risk. There is no "natural" way to disable your senses (touch, taste, smell, sound, sight) and overriding the bodies' sensory with digitally simulated sensory could hold enormous risk.
Using the device could cause loss of sensory (would you risk going blind forever to play a VR game?) - it could cause problems with false receptions in the brain (you want to see dead people? or hear whispers in the night?) - Rules of thumb: Technology should never interfere with health brain activity. True immersion could never happen without blocking those senses. In all honesty Oculus rift is pretty close to immersion as it will get (at least the concept)
In my opinion- if you combined Oculus Rift (one that maybe supports stronger visuals in the future) - with a more powerful Emotiv you might just get the best virtual reality possible. (using the emotiv to control what is shown in the oculus) EDIT: There apparently is touch simulation as well (kickstarter) Araig which is a upper body "jacket" that makes it so you FEEL the game- I recommend watching the video to get an idea how it works (personally im not a fan of the subwoofer attached to the back)
How is it that no one has mentioned Trials of Ascension in regards to this article? Permadeath, specialized skills, everything is player driven, real consequences. Seriously, this is a MMO site, how does the writer of this article not know of or mention Trials of Ascension?
Only way to leave some things a mystery would be to delete our memory once we logged out of the virtual world.
Nothing is a mystery in a game that has been released for longer than a month these days. By that time, you'll probably find a wiki, several fan sites and other walk-through guides. I do admit I miss the mystery... It's just far too convenient to google things now, and even I do it when I'm stuck.
I guess if they could somehow figure a way to copyright all information that is in the game, to prevent fan based sites releasing information on quests and items, but I doubt it will ever happen.
You should watch log horizon. I find it even better.
But what you said is really true. But the studio that could afford to take such steps are more interested in returns. They are being slaves to investors , people that don't play shit and think that people playing games are retarded. That is the ugly truth.
They just see a way to make money , and the faster the better.
Now that HoloLens is out , Oculus will soon be out , there is ample room for real innovation in gaming.
But games need to evolve. The NPC's either have to become living AI and the focus move from players to the world itself, or let players fill the roles of npcs.
But most of all , the art of making games , or designing them should be brought back to gaming. And I think the marketing staff should be fired.
Someone should probably tell the author that we HAD all these things previously in MMO's and they were sacrificed to make the genre more accessible.
And the person above who wanted it to take 180 days to make a sword with all those people.... this game is not meant to be a real life replacement. Get over it.
Originally posted by reap3rzx How is it that no one has mentioned Trials of Ascension in regards to this article? Permadeath, specialized skills, everything is player driven, real consequences. Seriously, this is a MMO site, how does the writer of this article not know of or mention Trials of Ascension?
Trials of Ascension is pretty much a scam, i'm surprised MMORPG.com didnt remove them yet.
Comments
This site has got to get new writers. Seriously. Can't you guys figure out any possible way to convey thoughts without the cliched "X things....blah blah blah" format?
Seriously, mmorpg.com. You guys really suck.
First IA - to make anything complex like you need thousands programmers and triggers
Second - Anything fall because not full imersive
Two things the author of this piece should know.
Tad Williams's Otherland covered a lot of this stuff 15 years ago. (they should make an MMO of that, oh, say what?)
Dennis L. McKiernan broached the idea as well 20 years ago in Caverns of Socrates.
Ahh, the bliss of youthful ignorance. What is more sublime?
SAO would be my game if it existed. It's missing magic though, something I almost can't excuse. Even sword based melee magic would have been cool.
Elfheim had true personal flight in a fantasy game, something that would be amazing.. no mounts, just flying.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Main thing I would take from SAO is to give players a long term challenge.. I mean over a year in they aren't even close to clearing the game. Top players are on the 'front line', other players support (crafts etc.) and when a boss is cleared (one time only event in which many players can participate) it unlocks more of the world (new towns, dungeons, quest areas, etc.) for everyone.
Other points would be:
SOA has magic. Well, all of it except for the star wars knock-off arc.
Pretty sure real video game developers would have a good laugh.
Might be nice to point out that the death thing in SAO is not a feature, it's a malicious hack, it's the whole point of the anime, the hack makes it that if you log out you die, and if you die ingame, you die too. The players are all moved in hospitals because they can't even feed or anything else b y themselves.
Coz, I mean, it sounds kind of moronic, the way it's put in the article.
In summary: Death in SAO was meant to be like in any other game, it's not even supposed to have permadeath, iirc, if you died, you were meant to get sent back to the nearest village, is what was supposed to happen.
I think that a plain permadeath server may be enticing, but that its a mechanic that may not appeal to enough of a general audience to have it appear in a major title. However, a legacy mechanic a la Realm of the Mad God or Rogue Legacy that would be tweaked for the MMO and perhaps based on how much progress you were able to make would be interesting. You wouldn't be starting over from scratch in that case, in that event you would actually have to die at some point in order to progress but the further you make it, the better your next incarnation would be.
MMO's (past, present and in-progress) with permadeath.
past:
Wizardry Online
present:
Salem
in- progress:
Origins of Malu
Shards Online (permadeath servers)
(That I know of.) I know you weren't saying there aren't any, but these are the ones I can think of that are, were or may be.
I liked SAO to some extend. Most it felt rushed and skipped the more interesting subjects to focus on cliché anime troupes.
But that is irrelevant so regarding the authors points:
5) Full-Immersion Virtual Reality is Awesome
No arguments there to be honest. The "technology" seen in SAO would be a dream come true.
4) Major In-Game consequences
I always liked punishing games (exp/loot/money loss etc) but before mmo developers can't really go for something like permadeath etc as a punishment. We first have to fix the internet and server structure for most mmos around the world. :P
3) Practical In-Game Specializations
Player driven economy sounds great on paper and I still think FFXIV 1.0 had the right idea. But sadly everything about it was clunky and poorly implemented that made it more of a chore.
Even though I still think the concept has great potential in letting players have different jobs besides the usual fighting classes. But it all has to be wrapped in a accessible package which I think is pretty hard to solve to make all activities as engaging as the next.
2) Social Investment
This is more of a player driven request and to be honest from personal experience it happens pretty often. Oddly enough I had this more in more of what you'd describe hardcore mmos than casual ones. By having greater challenges bonding with the players you are going to fail alot with was as important as being on top of your game.
1) Leave Some Things a Mystery
You have that when an mmo starts and nobody has seen most of the content. But as soon as more and more players reach the "end" the internet is usually flooded with more and more information.
The only way to ensure to have things like items/encounters/monsters etc a mystery is by adding alot of randomization. For example combat encounters. I guess we all have been there a boss encounter is interesting when you go in for the first time without any information. But as soon as routine kicks in and you know the ability rotation the whole experience falls flat. To counter that developers would need to give the ability for the boss to switch out abilties and use them in a random order.
I know this could lead to being completely unfair if a boss suddenly decides to do an unblockable AoE attack two times in row for giggles. But again this could be counter by implementing certain limitation to how often an ability could be used in a row or when certain % of Boss HP is left which abilties the Mob is free to use.
This would not keep the whole encounter a mystery but at least would it would stop the routine. Downside of course this would be a tough job to balance overall and put more strain on the game designers.
Sorry to say man but most of this is already done or out of developers control; unfortunately there is no formula or feature that will make players react a certain way.
Permadeath in an MMO has been done many times over and even permadeath-open world PVP (see Salem) - hackers and cheaters can ruin the game almost overnight and even a pay-to-play game can't stop people from cheating one way or another (abusing a mechanic for example)
Also your point on leaving mystery- a lot of people do not like mystery in a game and it is pretty much impossible to hide information from those who seek it. People will reverse engineer the game files and post any and all secrets in a wiki- but there is also streamers, youtube walkthrough guides- the best counter to this is dynamic instances; algorithmic levels that is different for everyone however even this won't stop people if there is money to be made.
VR as seen in the anime really isn't far in terms of technology- we already have computer chips that functions much like half the human brain. (Google TrueNorth) and there are also devices that allow you to play games with your brain (this video the guy sets up his game to use magic with the old Emotiv EPOC in the game "Son of Nor"
however I highly doubt we will ever see a true immersion GAME (let alone MMO) as there is too much risk. There is no "natural" way to disable your senses (touch, taste, smell, sound, sight) and overriding the bodies' sensory with digitally simulated sensory could hold enormous risk.
Using the device could cause loss of sensory (would you risk going blind forever to play a VR game?) - it could cause problems with false receptions in the brain (you want to see dead people? or hear whispers in the night?) - Rules of thumb: Technology should never interfere with health brain activity. True immersion could never happen without blocking those senses. In all honesty Oculus rift is pretty close to immersion as it will get (at least the concept)
In my opinion- if you combined Oculus Rift (one that maybe supports stronger visuals in the future) - with a more powerful Emotiv you might just get the best virtual reality possible. (using the emotiv to control what is shown in the oculus) EDIT: There apparently is touch simulation as well (kickstarter) Araig which is a upper body "jacket" that makes it so you FEEL the game- I recommend watching the video to get an idea how it works (personally im not a fan of the subwoofer attached to the back)
Just my opinion
Only way to leave some things a mystery would be to delete our memory once we logged out of the virtual world.
Nothing is a mystery in a game that has been released for longer than a month these days. By that time, you'll probably find a wiki, several fan sites and other walk-through guides. I do admit I miss the mystery... It's just far too convenient to google things now, and even I do it when I'm stuck.
I guess if they could somehow figure a way to copyright all information that is in the game, to prevent fan based sites releasing information on quests and items, but I doubt it will ever happen.
You should watch log horizon. I find it even better.
But what you said is really true. But the studio that could afford to take such steps are more interested in returns. They are being slaves to investors , people that don't play shit and think that people playing games are retarded. That is the ugly truth.
They just see a way to make money , and the faster the better.
Now that HoloLens is out , Oculus will soon be out , there is ample room for real innovation in gaming.
But games need to evolve. The NPC's either have to become living AI and the focus move from players to the world itself, or let players fill the roles of npcs.
But most of all , the art of making games , or designing them should be brought back to gaming. And I think the marketing staff should be fired.
Someone should probably tell the author that we HAD all these things previously in MMO's and they were sacrificed to make the genre more accessible.
And the person above who wanted it to take 180 days to make a sword with all those people.... this game is not meant to be a real life replacement. Get over it.
Trials of Ascension is pretty much a scam, i'm surprised MMORPG.com didnt remove them yet.
Once again when this subject is visited, people only talk about Sword Art Incest Crush, or Lorizon Hog.
I want a list of 5 things from Dot Hack MMOs should learn from. Hell, even a list of 10 would be practical.