Personally not really a fan of the full loot pvp. But, I imagine there is a market for it. I am really happy to see that more MMOs are ditching the ancient tab target combat.
Originally posted by caetftl Originally posted by HowbadisbadOriginally posted by caetftlOriginally posted by HowbadisbadOriginally posted by RandaynDarkfall, Mortal Online, AA (non-action combat)...the GIANT list of kickstarter failures....and just about every game currently in development...
But Darkfall, MO, and AA were not failed games. Just because you dislike them doesn't mean they failed.AA definitely isn't a failed game, but because it isn't action combat, and isn't a truly open pvp game, it shouldn't even be on the list.Darkfall and MO can be considered financial failures I imagine, but that's not because there wasn't a demand for the games, I think the bigger problem was the low budget production quality. People wanted to play the games, the quality just wasn't there to justify them dumping their time into it. But they can't be financial failures if they are still up and running. Do you think companies will continue to operate at a loss?Short answer: yes, businesses don't instantly shut down the moment they stop making profit...
Long answer: You can be a financial failure while still making profit... if the profit isn't good return on investment.
It's like you invest a million dollars to make a penny of profit a month... it's still a failure...
I can definitely say Darkfall is not a failure, Darkfall was doing well enough to open up asian servers, which are doing very well (apparently korea vs japan is a big thing there).
AA... there is no denying they made boatloads of money.
I have no clue about how much profit MO is making, I have never played it and I don't pay attention to the community.
And the point im trying to make is that just because a game doesn't have millions of players (full loot is a niche audience after all), doesn't make it a failure.
...The full loot and item destruction is a good selling point for those that like a player driven market without stagnation. The full loot and item destruction also promotes more open world pvp over resources etc.
Originally posted by Sojhin ...The full loot and item destruction is a good selling point for those that like a player driven market without stagnation. The full loot and item destruction also promotes more open world pvp over resources etc.
Agreed, full loot does make for a better economy and crafter's game. Hopefully they will add in personal vendors so crafters can run a store/business inside the game.
Honestly, it's just combat. It's the least unique, least interesting thing about an mmorpg. I don't know why people obsess over it so much. How well they make the other systems is what interests me.
Originally posted by Randayn I think it's going to be another failure in a long list of free for all PVP non-tab target action combat mmos...
As opposed to that wonderful, billion dollar, mega successful Tab Target MMO? I mean other then WoW, there isn't another mega hit out there.
I think you mean it doesn't interest you therefore you denigrate and besmirch something not to your liking.
There are plenty of successful tab target mmos besides WoW.
Give me ONE example of a full loot twitch game being wildly successful.
Since we are talking about crowfall..
When was it confirmed their action combat was twitchy?
Also give me a example of a tab target game that was wildly successful, that didn't come out between the late 20th century and/or the early 21th century, when there was nothing else.
With no tab targeting and action combat confirmed this has gone from excited to meh. Another in a long line of action, no tab targeting MMOs coming out with a big wonder on how they will stand out other then crafting. Dont get me wrong, good crafting is a must have but if the rest of the game does not stand out even crafting side will fail.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle With no tab targeting and action combat confirmed this has gone from excited to meh. Another in a long line of action, no tab targeting MMOs coming out with a big wonder on how they will stand out other then crafting. Dont get me wrong, good crafting is a must have but if the rest of the game does not stand out even crafting side will fail.
Is the list for tab-target games not longer than that of action combat? -_-
Originally posted by Randayn I think it's going to be another failure in a long list of free for all PVP non-tab target action combat mmos...
As opposed to that wonderful, billion dollar, mega successful Tab Target MMO? I mean other then WoW, there isn't another mega hit out there.
I think you mean it doesn't interest you therefore you denigrate and besmirch something not to your liking.
You can't judge the average based on one anomaly of success (WOW)... Plenty of MMORPG's are financially successful right now (some other than WOW are grossing greater than the average)...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Nanfoodle With no tab targeting and action combat confirmed this has gone from excited to meh. Another in a long line of action, no tab targeting MMOs coming out with a big wonder on how they will stand out other then crafting. Dont get me wrong, good crafting is a must have but if the rest of the game does not stand out even crafting side will fail.
Why would non tab stand out any less than tab target? I don't understand the point you're making there, as both see widespread use.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Will have to see how the actual combat plays out but in general non-tab targeting tends to have favored strafe, circling opponents, wierd jumping over people and a myriad of other 'twitchy' moves over move and counter move based combat (i.e., paper rock scissors).
I do not want to have to 'break dance' to win at pvp.
The main concern I have with no tab targeting is that this may make the core__move and counter move; rock, paper, and scissors aspect of Shadowbane__which this game seems to build upon in conflict if not outright highly broken balance wise favoring twitchy based combat (non-tab targeting combat).
There are a lot of action combat games that didn't do combat well. But take TERA as an example of how to do it right. It's has elements of action as well as still being very strategic. TERA's combat requires a lot of skill in different ways once you get to endgame.
When was it confirmed their action combat was twitchy?
Also give me a example of a tab target game that was wildly successful, that didn't come out between the late 19th century and/or the early 20th century, when there was nothing else.
off t
That's not how the centuries work the 1st century was 0-99, we are in the 21st century, the year 2015. So you mean the late 20th century and the early 21st.
on t
If it has more than 6 skills it could be fine, the action games always promote constant movement over proper positioning. If you don't think positioning it tactical, you don't understand why NOW there are red circles for every AoE when there never was.
Combat will be much less twitchy with friendly fire... you can't just run around like a maniac swinging or casting wildly in group pvp if friendly fire is involved.
Yeah one interesting byproduct of friendly fire is you can just hang out stealthed on some cliff watching everyone blow reach other up. Then swoop down and loot what you want
Originally posted by Randayn I think it's going to be another failure in a long list of free for all PVP non-tab target action combat mmos...
So when you say "long list" you actually mean two? (both small indi titles) .
OP: I generally prefer non-tab combat, but it depends how it is implemented. If it is clunky or the control system is bad (like in Darkfall), I won't like it.
Haven't been following very closely, fill me and others like me in on what targeting style they are pushing?
Tab targeting is definitely the most boring style of combat, so whatever it is it's probably better than what it could have been.
Actually, most fun, so one can concentrate on using spells. But tastes are different. As long as there is no recticle, I'm fine. Prefer tab targeting but also Wildstar style was fun.
As the devs said, some will love it, some will hate it, some will actually give it a try before jumping to conclusions.
Every detail they release is making it sound better to me. Sucks for those that could like and enjoy it but put themselves in boxes where they are X type of gamer that only plays when ABC are in place. Good luck finding THE game that meets the long list of bullet points we all look for.
This is a game that involves a lot of player killing. The more they can put the power into the player hands the better in my view. I'd much rather suck because I getting slower after almost 20 years of online gaming (poor wrists), then being mad that the RNG gods didn't grant me a critical hit or dodge or whatever at the right time.
Comments
AA definitely isn't a failed game, but because it isn't action combat, and isn't a truly open pvp game, it shouldn't even be on the list. Darkfall and MO can be considered financial failures I imagine, but that's not because there wasn't a demand for the games, I think the bigger problem was the low budget production quality. People wanted to play the games, the quality just wasn't there to justify them dumping their time into it.
But they can't be financial failures if they are still up and running. Do you think companies will continue to operate at a loss?
Short answer: yes, businesses don't instantly shut down the moment they stop making profit...
Long answer: You can be a financial failure while still making profit... if the profit isn't good return on investment.
It's like you invest a million dollars to make a penny of profit a month... it's still a failure...
I can definitely say Darkfall is not a failure, Darkfall was doing well enough to open up asian servers, which are doing very well (apparently korea vs japan is a big thing there).
AA... there is no denying they made boatloads of money.
I have no clue about how much profit MO is making, I have never played it and I don't pay attention to the community.
And the point im trying to make is that just because a game doesn't have millions of players (full loot is a niche audience after all), doesn't make it a failure.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
Agreed, full loot does make for a better economy and crafter's game. Hopefully they will add in personal vendors so crafters can run a store/business inside the game.
There are plenty of successful tab target mmos besides WoW.
Give me ONE example of a full loot twitch game being wildly successful.
Still as hyped as I was when i gave the game a in-depth look. So I feel very good about this game and its Dev team.
Camera view and combat were my only worries and now they are gone.
Witty & Wicked
Honestly, it's just combat. It's the least unique, least interesting thing about an mmorpg. I don't know why people obsess over it so much. How well they make the other systems is what interests me.
Since we are talking about crowfall..
When was it confirmed their action combat was twitchy?
Also give me a example of a tab target game that was wildly successful, that didn't come out between the late 20th century and/or the early 21th century, when there was nothing else.
Witty & Wicked
Is the list for tab-target games not longer than that of action combat? -_-
Witty & Wicked
My thoughts? I wish them well in the game they want to make. I also hope it's fun.
You can't judge the average based on one anomaly of success (WOW)... Plenty of MMORPG's are financially successful right now (some other than WOW are grossing greater than the average)...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Haha was thinking the same thing. Though do hope the game succeeds.
As for on topic I could care less if a game has tab or no tab targetting.
Why would non tab stand out any less than tab target? I don't understand the point you're making there, as both see widespread use.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Will have to see how the actual combat plays out but in general non-tab targeting tends to have favored strafe, circling opponents, wierd jumping over people and a myriad of other 'twitchy' moves over move and counter move based combat (i.e., paper rock scissors).
I do not want to have to 'break dance' to win at pvp.
There are a lot of action combat games that didn't do combat well. But take TERA as an example of how to do it right. It's has elements of action as well as still being very strategic. TERA's combat requires a lot of skill in different ways once you get to endgame.
off t
That's not how the centuries work the 1st century was 0-99, we are in the 21st century, the year 2015. So you mean the late 20th century and the early 21st.
on t
If it has more than 6 skills it could be fine, the action games always promote constant movement over proper positioning. If you don't think positioning it tactical, you don't understand why NOW there are red circles for every AoE when there never was.
Yeah one interesting byproduct of friendly fire is you can just hang out stealthed on some cliff watching everyone blow reach other up. Then swoop down and loot what you want
So when you say "long list" you actually mean two? (both small indi titles) .
OP: I generally prefer non-tab combat, but it depends how it is implemented. If it is clunky or the control system is bad (like in Darkfall), I won't like it.
Actually, most fun, so one can concentrate on using spells. But tastes are different. As long as there is no recticle, I'm fine. Prefer tab targeting but also Wildstar style was fun.
As previously mentioned, not all Worlds are full loot.
As the devs said, some will love it, some will hate it, some will actually give it a try before jumping to conclusions.
Every detail they release is making it sound better to me. Sucks for those that could like and enjoy it but put themselves in boxes where they are X type of gamer that only plays when ABC are in place. Good luck finding THE game that meets the long list of bullet points we all look for.
This is a game that involves a lot of player killing. The more they can put the power into the player hands the better in my view. I'd much rather suck because I getting slower after almost 20 years of online gaming (poor wrists), then being mad that the RNG gods didn't grant me a critical hit or dodge or whatever at the right time.