The thought of Daybreak (SOE) attempting a Vanguard 2 without Brad McQuaid is absolutely laughable. They slowly transformed Vanguard from an EQ successor to an EQ2 successor and once again showed their incompetence in this industry. Without Brad McQuaid, Daybreak would just be Smedley sitting around twiddling his thumbs thinking about Planetside and the next WoW clone.
Vanguard's not coming back, it's like dreaming about winning the lottery, the odds are just that slim. Fans of Vanguard wear some of the biggest rose colored glasses. Remember when fans used to suggest that Vanguard would be revived and become a top game in the genre if it went F2P? Yeah, VG got F2P alright, but it didn't get even slightly crowded. Vanguard likely lost SOE a lot of money when Smed did Brad a favor by bailing his company out, buying Sigil, buying Vanguard, giving Vanguard extra dev resources and millions of money to even launch. As an ex-Vanguard fan, I would put Vanguard on the list of many mistakes that Smed has made in the past that lost SOE money. Mistakes that likely lead to the demise of SOE and the buyout.
Trust me when I say this investment firm didn't buy SOE to revive old failures & old games. They bought SOE for EQ Landmark and EQ Next because they want to release these new games on multi-platforms. Consoles are easy money if it's run by half-competent management. They see an opportunity to launch EQ Landmark & Next on multi-platforms for a big payday.
Lets be honest, Vanguard was always the red headed step child. It had 100x the potential of EQ2, but instead of finishing the game the way it was meant to be they transformed it into as much of a WoW clone as possible and almost stopped development for it altogether. SOE never intended to flesh out Vanguard because it would have, without a doubt, overtaken Everquest 2 which was the pride and joy of SOE.
why encourage false hope... Im sure the few dozen people that played VG are still weeping and gnashing their teeth. heck might as well encourage the MXO crowd too!
"Or just make the sphere of Diplomacy a standalone mobile game. That would also be spectacular."
Thinking alike I wrote after the announcement a year ago:
Originally posted by Po_gg Sad news. I hope they'll find a way to save at least Diplomacy somehow... I've checked back into the game rarely, but I always loved that system, it's great fun. Crafting too.
(http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6147759#6147759 - btw. I'm glad the new forum engine is here soon, it's a pain in the rear to search back older posts... can't find it but wrote an another one later about they should make a tablet game called Vanguard: Diplomacy )
Smedley had actually said the possibility of selling it or making it open source wouldn't happen. Because there's a lot of code in the game now that is shared with other SOE games and that's not something they can give away.
Probably a lot of the backend stuff I would imagine. It is unfortunate, but such is life.
I will say this for Vanguard, it had the best and most engaging crafting, sure some days it felt like crawling across broken glass with no pants, while someone poured vinegar over you, but when you hit a sweet run, it was a king of the world moment.
Oh and diplomacy, doing that sphere of the game as a goblin, had some damn fine one liners and was so enjoyable, don't get me wrong game ran like a pig, but it had so many buried gems in it.
I would *LOVE* to see Vanguard make a return, one of the best games out there, and shamefully neglected by Sony. Unfortunately, I can't see it happening. Though maybe Daybreak could have the imagination to improve on Vanguard, fixing all the things that Sony never did, or transferring all the good things about the game into a new one. I'd far rather see an updated Vanguard to a Vanguard clone though. Ah, pipedreams........
Depends. If it means another shoddy half baked attempt , using minimum of resources to revive that bugridden unoptimised game like SOE did before they finally pulled the plug. Then no please.
Would be an amazing day should a reboot or even a Vanguard 2 ever come to light. Doubt it but one can hope. Still best MMO I've played...and that's among a lengthy list.
_________________________________ Vic - "Androzzi here" John - "Vic, your case just busted wide open." Vic - "So close it for me!" John - "Looks like your going to have to close it yourself, SHITTY!!!!"
If Brad was smart, I think he should try and go after Vanguard now that Sony doesn't necessarily control the assets anymore..
heck I think if he started a kickstarter simply to raise funds in order to acquire Vanguard from Daybreak that it would probably get some attention.. Then instead of focusing his energy into an all new project he could finally perfect what he tried before.
SOE's direction is very clear,whip out unfinished lack lustre games,grab as much money,then shut them down or ignore them.
This whole f2p gimmick is just so bad,the ONLY thing the devs cares about is getting your money upfront,once that happens,there is no more incentive to improve or create content.
SOE has escaped that anyhow,they have not been putting content in their games or VERY little of it,they have simply been releasing an automated world generator and call it a game.
If you look at their latest H1Z1,tons and tons of repeated structures,i would even bet very few if any of those textures were made by them aside from the SMED oriented ones.like Smedbuck's Coffee.
I would also bet they have ZERO intention of buying more servers to handle old games that they figure can no longer get money from.
I am so sure the notion is so far fetched i would say 0.0001 % .
SOE is like one of the easiest to read of all the developers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I wouldn't play Vanguard unless they scrapped so much of the crap that SoE added after launch, especially excessive hub quests and fast travel. I have zero confidence in Daybreaks ability to make Vanguard anything without McQuaid. He was their golden goose.
I think the best we could hope for is a new game with some ideas and features from VG.
Let's face it, Vanguard 2 might get some people exited but it would not sell millions of copies no matter what. You want to license an IP thta many people outside MMO hardcore fans have heard about, something like "Game of thrones", "Wheel of times","Belgarion" or something similar that would attract many fans even outside the MMOs.
Vanguard never had that many players even if it was fun, so making a new game in the IP makes little sense. They could sell Vanguard with the code to someone, maybe a kickstarter or so but Daybreak do own one IP people have heard about and that is Everquest.
My bet is that we will see EQ mobile games very soon. If they get in enough money my I think that they will try to license a well known IP and make a MMO and a bunch of mobile games in it.
If Vanguard had been successful enough they wouldn't have canned it in the first place. The launch was legendary buggy and it never really recovered from it even if the game basically was a great game. If Brad had been better with money and actually got the game released in good shape, and maybe gotten a few better programmers from the start the game could have been a pretty big one , or is SOE after buying it would have spent a year and a bunch of devs to polish it before releasing it (they did get it running but it was too little) it might still be up.
But there are way too many "if"s about VG. Great ideas, interesting mechanics and it still failed.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Please.. as much as I would be entertained by playing Vanguard again, the fact is that SoE sold it's mmo business because the mmo bubble has burst, and the economics of the genre is nose-diving. The MMO will be the play-thing of the Indie were it is supposed to be, instead of being a mega-dollar mega-corp churn business like console games are.
SOE was extremely slow to shut games down. If SOE decided that they finally had to pull the plug on a game, it's unlikely that anyone is ever going to bring it back. If it were NCsoft that got bought, then maybe discussion about bringing back games that they had pulled the plug on could be reasonable.
Originally posted by SlyLoK Not going to happen. Even after going f2p they couldnt get anyone to play the game. What would relaunching it solve? They have EQN and H1Z1 to milk and Landmark to cancel.
Wow... I was actually thinking the EXACT same thing
Although it would be cool if they brought back some old games, I saw them say on their facebook page they have no current plans to bring back anything.
I Could see them Selling the rights To vg off at a bargain basement price. They did it with potbs and portalus. Hell, maybe portalus can grab vg and make a name of themselves as rescuers of good but flawed or not quite popular enough soe games.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Comments
Lets be honest, Vanguard was always the red headed step child. It had 100x the potential of EQ2, but instead of finishing the game the way it was meant to be they transformed it into as much of a WoW clone as possible and almost stopped development for it altogether. SOE never intended to flesh out Vanguard because it would have, without a doubt, overtaken Everquest 2 which was the pride and joy of SOE.
Vanguard beta != SOE's Vanguard.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
"Or just make the sphere of Diplomacy a standalone mobile game. That would also be spectacular."
Thinking alike
I wrote after the announcement a year ago:
(http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6147759#6147759 - btw. I'm glad the new forum engine is here soon, it's a pain in the rear to search back older posts... can't find it but wrote an another one later about they should make a tablet game called Vanguard: Diplomacy
)
Probably a lot of the backend stuff I would imagine. It is unfortunate, but such is life.
Not only will Vanguard not be brought back but Everquest and Everquest II will be shuttered with in the next couple months.
I will say this for Vanguard, it had the best and most engaging crafting, sure some days it felt like crawling across broken glass with no pants, while someone poured vinegar over you, but when you hit a sweet run, it was a king of the world moment.
Oh and diplomacy, doing that sphere of the game as a goblin, had some damn fine one liners and was so enjoyable, don't get me wrong game ran like a pig, but it had so many buried gems in it.
_________________________________
Vic - "Androzzi here"
John - "Vic, your case just busted wide open."
Vic - "So close it for me!"
John - "Looks like your going to have to close it yourself, SHITTY!!!!"
If Brad was smart, I think he should try and go after Vanguard now that Sony doesn't necessarily control the assets anymore..
heck I think if he started a kickstarter simply to raise funds in order to acquire Vanguard from Daybreak that it would probably get some attention.. Then instead of focusing his energy into an all new project he could finally perfect what he tried before.
SO far fetched it's not funny.
SOE's direction is very clear,whip out unfinished lack lustre games,grab as much money,then shut them down or ignore them.
This whole f2p gimmick is just so bad,the ONLY thing the devs cares about is getting your money upfront,once that happens,there is no more incentive to improve or create content.
SOE has escaped that anyhow,they have not been putting content in their games or VERY little of it,they have simply been releasing an automated world generator and call it a game.
If you look at their latest H1Z1,tons and tons of repeated structures,i would even bet very few if any of those textures were made by them aside from the SMED oriented ones.like Smedbuck's Coffee.
I would also bet they have ZERO intention of buying more servers to handle old games that they figure can no longer get money from.
I am so sure the notion is so far fetched i would say 0.0001 % .
SOE is like one of the easiest to read of all the developers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think the best we could hope for is a new game with some ideas and features from VG.
Let's face it, Vanguard 2 might get some people exited but it would not sell millions of copies no matter what. You want to license an IP thta many people outside MMO hardcore fans have heard about, something like "Game of thrones", "Wheel of times","Belgarion" or something similar that would attract many fans even outside the MMOs.
Vanguard never had that many players even if it was fun, so making a new game in the IP makes little sense. They could sell Vanguard with the code to someone, maybe a kickstarter or so but Daybreak do own one IP people have heard about and that is Everquest.
My bet is that we will see EQ mobile games very soon. If they get in enough money my I think that they will try to license a well known IP and make a MMO and a bunch of mobile games in it.
If Vanguard had been successful enough they wouldn't have canned it in the first place. The launch was legendary buggy and it never really recovered from it even if the game basically was a great game. If Brad had been better with money and actually got the game released in good shape, and maybe gotten a few better programmers from the start the game could have been a pretty big one , or is SOE after buying it would have spent a year and a bunch of devs to polish it before releasing it (they did get it running but it was too little) it might still be up.
But there are way too many "if"s about VG. Great ideas, interesting mechanics and it still failed.
It wasn't SOELLC, so it's not DGC...
It's either DBG, or DG
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Hmmm...... POS?
That one work?
Please.. as much as I would be entertained by playing Vanguard again, the fact is that SoE sold it's mmo business because the mmo bubble has burst, and the economics of the genre is nose-diving. The MMO will be the play-thing of the Indie were it is supposed to be, instead of being a mega-dollar mega-corp churn business like console games are.
Deal with it.
Here's a thought.
Daybreak acquires Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
HA HA hahahahaha What's disturbing is, I could see this happening.
Wow... I was actually thinking the EXACT same thing
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins