In Defense of Graphics

monochrome19 · February 2015

I've been playing a lot of new MMOs lately and I cant help but cringe whenever my character moves. The walk animations are terrible and it really makes you feel disjointed from the world and kills immersion. You would think having a believable, anatomically sound avatar would be at the top of the priority list but as I see more and more games, not just MMOs, but single player games included, it's becoming apparent that this just isnt the case. And there are other things like seeing the same type of tree model in every game that makes me instantly lose interest but I dont want to ramble.

I'm not usually a crusader for graphics but now I'm starting to think they are VERY important. Not just because they are pleasing to look at but because they greatly increase immersion, and really, what human doesnt like looking at visually appealing things? So while people get a lot of grief for demanding pretty games I'm starting to see where they're coming from ... As much as I abhor FFXIV I could walk already exploring the world for months completely content. Am I the only one that feels this way? Or ...?

jdizzle2k13 · February 2015

No, you're not.

I think lots of people actually want their games to look good. Some people may say it's not the most important factor as say having a good combat system or having a good death penalty, but I think many (most?) people who play video games want them to be as visually appealing as possible.

As technology gets better, I think the excuse that online games aren't meant to look that great will become less viable. Game designers will be able to make games look awesome for a wider variety of people. The baseline computers and laptops will have the power needed to make a game look solid and almost realistic.

Maurgrim · February 2015

It's 2015 there is no exuse for 1995 graphics, no matter how good the gameplay is, It's just another form of milkcow.

Sulaa · February 2015

Nothing to apologize for.

Indie MMORPG don't stand a chance with me either simply because I want big budget wonderful graphics.

Gameplay concept, great gameplay itself and goergous graphics - all have to be present. Simple as that.

Don't settle for anything else if you do not want to.

reeereee · February 2015

The character models and animations are one of the most important parts. As an MMO you're asking your players to sink hundreds perhaps thousands of hours into a character.

iixviiiix · February 2015

I don't mind low graphic , but at lest the art need to be acceptable .

For example minecraft do the art right. It acceptable .

A lots indie develop make many wrong chose for the art design . Bad camera , bad platforms , bad art design.

I care a lot about art design because bad art design make me feel motion sick. Some time the game make me think why the h*** they chose that art design.

skeaser · February 2015

I agree. I just hopped back into RIFT to take a look this week and had to roll a new toon 4 times before I found a race/class/gender combo that I could tolerate the run and combat animations.

Ergload · February 2015

Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

reeereee · February 2015

Originally posted by Ergload
Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

Oh there is no doubt they are going to make some amazing looking games with that, whether or not they bother to offer any of them in the na/eu market is another matter.

Sovrath · February 2015

Originally posted by monochrome19
I've been playing a lot of new MMOs lately and I cant help but cringe whenever my character moves. The walk animations are terrible and it really makes you feel disjointed from the world and kills immersion.

This isn't a matter of "graphics" it's a matter of animation and more to the point, attention to detail.

You say "new" mmo's. Lord of the Rings Online, not a new mmo, has atrocious walking. I don't remember any older game with great walking.

And it's a shame.

Elder Scrolls Online has a scene in the main quest where you walk with an npc. The npc walks reasonably well and you walk as if your spine is fused.

Flyte27 · February 2015

Graphics are important, but not that important. Everything is important to an extent. Animations mean very little if your combat system is using turn based combat. That just means you get to watch more or less the same exact animation over and over again every time you click on x ability. It's like playing modern day versions of Final Fantasy. The characters are flipping around all over the place when they do their attacks, but it gets boring to watch quickly. There is no need for such flashy animations in turn based combat games. I much preferred the simple 2D views and animations that such games used to use. It was a lot more simple, but also a lot easier to watch over and over and over again IMO. Then you come to things like game play and abilities. Most MMOs don't offer many things to do outside of combat. Some older games tried things. EQ had tracking, sense heading, learning different languages, unique non combat class abilities, etc. SWG had things like Catina's, Camping, being able to climb mountains more easily, etc. Most of that kind of stuff has been disposed of because not many care I guess.

CrazKanuk · February 2015

Originally posted by Ergload
Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

Yeah, but the Engine has nothing to do with the quality of animations.

Here's the reality of the situation, our brains are REALLY good at evaluating humanoids. We've been doing it for a pretty long time now. This is a big reason that we don't become completely immersed in games. Our brain is continuously evaluating "threats" and reacting with a fight or flight response. If you saw someone in real life, walking the same way that animations in video games to, you'd immediately pick it up. It's what we do. However, we're more accepting of unfamiliar creatures. So we can accept that aliens may be different then us and may walk differently, so we can suspend our disbelief subconsciously, because it's not real. Same goes for cartoons. We've been trained, over time, that cartoons aren't real, so we actually have fewer pre-conceived ideas about how that cartoon will react. We've seen them stretched, pulled, blown up (like filled with air), etc., etc. We've seen it all! Nothing would surprise us.

There are actually some really good articles on the subject....... I'd totally reference one if I had it handy.... but I don't.

skeaser · February 2015

Originally posted by Ergload
Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf045VYP3z4 UE4 Paris Apartment Demo. This is one of the most amazing things I've ever run on my computer. The other UE4 demos are amazing as well. I'd suggest anyone with gaming hardware download them and check them out.

Loke666 · February 2015

Originally posted by Ergload
Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

Dx12 will take a long time before we see it in MMOs, few enough of them use Dx11.

As for Unreal engine 4, a MMO takes at least 3 years to make so if someone license it we will see it at earliest 2018.

MMOs are the games who uses new technology last sadly and that do affect the graphics. Some still look pretty good, FF XIV, GW2 and ESO all look fine and we seen a few MMOs who actually look really good at launch like AoC (which of course had other problems but graphics wasn't one of them).

Sure it would be nice with a good looking MMO, particularly one that actually have seasons in it instead of just night and day cycle and maybe a few weather effects but gameplay still is more important.

Sadly far too many MMOs skip on the gameplay as well.

Flyte27 · February 2015

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Ergload
Unreal Engine 4 is right around the corner, hopefully some MMO devs use it. DirectX 12 is pretty close as well. Hopefully we'll see a huge, significant boost in MMO graphic quality within a year or 2. NCSoft actually licensed UE4 (the developers of City of Heroes) so cross your fingers they do something great with it.

Dx12 will take a long time before we see it in MMOs, few enough of them use Dx11.

As for Unreal engine 4, a MMO takes at least 3 years to make so if someone license it we will see it at earliest 2018.

MMOs are the games who uses new technology last sadly and that do affect the graphics. Some still look pretty good, FF XIV, GW2 and ESO all look fine and we seen a few MMOs who actually look really good at launch like AoC (which of course had other problems but graphics wasn't one of them).

Sure it would be nice with a good looking MMO, particularly one that actually have seasons in it instead of just night and day cycle and maybe a few weather effects but gameplay still is more important.

Sadly far too many MMOs skip on the gameplay as well.

I believe it's pointless to have day and night cycles or weather if they aren't going to have some kind of impact on your game experience. Just having them there for semantics seems a waste. You would need something like weather that obscures your vision or certain things that only happen at certain times of the day.

eye_m · February 2015

I don't want poorly done anything in my games - combat, animations, graphics, etc. I would however lose combat entirely to explore in a breathtaking environment.

monochrome19 · February 2015

Originally posted by eyelolled
I don't want poorly done anything in my games - combat, animations, graphics, etc. I would however lose combat entirely to explore in a breathtaking environment.

/agree

Nevulus · February 2015

The animations and graphics in the new game Evolve are some of the best I seen. And it took a HUGE budget, as well as hundreds & hundreds of people to just get an arena game to work that well.

Can you imagine what it would take to get an MMO of that kind of quality? It won't happen, especially if you want to start throwing in goodies like all the physics-based weighted animations of dx11/dx12. The server cannot handle it, and if you put it client-side you are just asking for a multitude of exploits to be coded, ESPECIALLY if you use Unreal, one of the most hacked engines out there with more aimbot progs than I can even count (cough cough Nosgoth).

So that settles animations, what about actual graphics, textures, shaders? Well the new physical-based shaders are amazing, but asking your art department to skin models using new shaders based on physical materials increases their workload three-fold, not to mention the time spent having your shader programmers quickly learn everything new in dx12 and incorporate it in your game. Then what about the people still using dx9? Now you have a huge disgruntled population of gamers mad because your game refuses to use dx9 in fear of "looking bad" and you are now titled as "a game putting graphics over gameplay"

You see how it all snowballs? Maybe do a little research first. You will be surprised how complicated it is to make a game.

Edit: Engine has almost everything to do with animations. Does your engine support blend trees? If so you can smoothly transition and blend between animations. Think assasins creed running forward and then turning around or side stepping. The engine can mean all the difference between smoothly transitioning animations or clunky third person movements.

Grunty · February 2015

The more realistic the graphics the more your mind sees and magnifies all the little errors found within that false realism.

The more you see those little errors the more y'all bitch about how unrealistic realistic graphics are.

jdizzle2k13 · February 2015

Originally posted by Grunty
The more realistic the graphics the more your mind sees and magnifies all the little errors found within that false realism.

The more you see those little errors the more y'all bitch about how unrealistic realistic graphics are.

Haha. Maybe I should be glad I don't have a high end computer.

Guess no graphics engine will ever truly satisfy us.

Seratus · February 2015

For me, graphics are important...but animations are much more important. It's one of the reasons that I haven't been able to stick with a MMORPG in a long time other than World of Warcraft.

Whether it's the unrealistic cartoon graphics or better animations, it's the only game where I feel that connection between my keyboard/mouse and my character.

monochrome19 · February 2015

Originally posted by Seratus
For me, graphics are important...but animations are much more important. It's one of the reasons that I haven't been able to stick with a MMORPG in a long time other than World of Warcraft.

Whether it's the unrealistic cartoon graphics or better animations, it's the only game where I feel that connection between my keyboard/mouse and my character.

This has generally been the case for me as well, besides FFXIV, it's user-avatar connection is spot on. Other games just feel ... wrong.

Konfess · February 2015

I am not an animator. But I know that studios like to buy ready made assets. What you are probably seeing and having trouble with is a particular animation library, that is being bought and over used in the industry. Part of the don’t reinvent the wheel, and don’t fix it if it ain’t broke mentality.

The point here, it is broke and must be fixed. Rather than post this general statement here you should post on game forums letting them know that their animation is broken and should be fixed. If they are using the same animation library, the libraries producer should know their product is faulty and fix it.

As an FYI, most of the applause you bestow on the graphics engine is due to the art. Photo quality textures and very high detailed models, with which just about any shader 3+ engine could produce the same results as seen in recent demos.

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