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Welcome to MMORPG with your first post. You'll fit right in here.
Jezus, MMORPG Mods. This is getting ridiculous.
Edit: By the way, they used that $60K to make what you see in the videos and to get something to show for this time around.
Once upon a time....
They're found at mmo-c.
I'm guessing that so are the posters that have come here trying to kill this game before it gets started.
Once upon a time....
They are not custom made, they are for sale in basic packs in unity website, lets see that roadmap in detail that its the most idiotic roadmap i ever seen for a game in my 35 years in gaming who claims its value for production in previous failed kickstarter of 750k, plus 60k in fund raising and now in a second try of 600k pledge, but dont let my negative tone scare you, ill explain with facts:
Engine/Tech - I have no idea whats in there, because makes no sence, whats middle-ware? Explain me please, with facts.
World - Create a prototype environment with flora.
You mean like this quick tutorial ?
There are more in youtube who makes worlds like in all those screenshots with zero custom made props, because all of those are for SALE in unity website, goes from like 5 bucks or few more, not mentioning the free props you can get also.
If they are custom made wheres the screenshots of the 3D models pre rendering? I wanna see polygons, where are they?
Combat - A basic version of melee combat, tutorial here:
Show me videos of someone who are making the models doing them live, i dare you.
I can go all day with the rest, my point here is you dont make a roadmap with something that should be already made and its basic, its basic programming that anyone with some hours to spend can do, its all free information out there.
Streamers and press? You mean Ten Ton Hammer, a website with zero credibility these days for any serious gamer, which died loooong ago and even back then wasnt that much good, sorry guys but that a fact.
Press you mean IGN, Gamespot, PC Gamer, or streamers with more than 1000 viewers ? I dare you to show us that, because for someone who claims this is the next big thing in mmo's with even mentions of a TOA gamecon, you beter put your mouth where OUR money is.
I would love to be proven wrong, and you know why im taking the "piss"? Because hurts my soul watching friends and fellow gamers spend their money in vaporware because they are passioned by the games they choose to support, and at the end of the day they get the short end of the stick, but hey, a fool and his money are soon parted as they say, right FC ?
Oh i would love to be proven wrong here, i really do.
Oh, and i forgot, you say NDA liftet, but NDA lifted of what? There are no information whatsover of a closed beta, like ALL games announce and share with the media and fans out there, NDA of what?
And this is what alienates valid criticism of the game developers and the fans in general.
I signed up for these forums because I read post after post talking about how they'll make a great game if given the opportunity.
The truth is they HAD the opportunity multiple times and botched them.
Yes, dealing with a Publisher would set restrictions and require compromise, but what's better:
Having a game published and making money
Sitting in limbo for over a decade because you refuse to compromise
The fact is that they claim they've put their own money in but the numbers don't lie.
Shadowpool started in 2002
Let's conservatively say each of the 3 guys each chipped in $500 a month.
1 year : $18,000
5 years: $90,000
13 years: $234,000
That's assuming 0 loans, a minimal capital investment on the part of the founders of the company, and 0 investors.
At the end of the day as an entrepreneur AND an investor I feel if you really want to get a technical demo you would have found a way either via friends, family, angel investors, or compromising your beliefs in order to work with publishers.
You can continue to believe that they believe in their product but for me the numbers are obvious and if an entrepreneur wants to succeed he'll kick in his own money to get that demo, pitch, or product in an alpha state ASAP.
If you have to go to the community to get a technical demo you're doing it wrong IMO.
12 years is false??
Everything else is false too?? Back your claim!
I agree, they need to give us more up front and not so much pie in the sky.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I was referring to unhappy donors.
See, statements like "they are not custom made" are claims that need to backed by more than your personal incredulity. There are no default Unity assets that are in any of the videos or screenshots, if there are point them out. As for any store-bought assets, I have no way of guaranteeing that nothing was ever purchased without looking through every asset in the store but without any examples of such items in game there's zero reason for me to make a claim one way or the other on that. Regardless, I'd argue there's nothing wrong with using assets from the Unity store as a shortcut, in some instances, or something to build on (that's why it exists). I've already pointed to the post by the lead programmer and have seen zero evidence to back up your claim.
"Middleware is the software that connects software components or enterprise applications. Middleware is the software layer that lies between the operating system and the applications on each side of a distributed computer network."
And? The existence of other projects isn't somehow a refutation to the progress made by this one.
Will these do?
You're really asking for A LOT here. It's somewhat unreasonable to expect someone to record every bit of the hundreds of hours of work they've done on the off chance someone asks for it but here's a video of Teddy showing a basic form of dual wielding using the test rig. And some screenshots of early stages of combat:
I'm not sure if that's enough to satisfy you but obviously work was being done.
Nope, I mean the open invitation they have for any/all press outlets to try the demo as well as a featured streamer program open to testers. Expect to see videos in the coming weeks from different streamers (yes, with 1000+ viewers) and other press outlets. Until then you can be skeptical but I hope you'll reconsider the project once those go up.
First, there is no "closed beta" or even an "alpha" because this is a pre-alpha technical demo, not the finished product but a playable prototype to show proof of concept which is plastered all over the website, roadmap, and Kickstarter page. Here's a post about the most recent testing session and I already linked you to two albums of screenshots from within the demo. Not sure what else you'd need but ask and I'll look for it.
Thanks Black Lotus Dragon. Guys it is fine to be critical about ToA, just don't be so full of crap. I've been following the game since 2004, and it is a shame to see what so many people are making this game out to be.
FC is just a passionate indie group trying to make a game. They are what kickstarter is all about. People trying to make their dream happen, and if you like their style of game donate. If you don't like it, don't pretend there is no game. FC has made a good effort to bring a much better kickstarter this time, and I support them.
While I personally will probably not support the project, I do not think it's fair to insinuate this project is a sort of scam. They clearly have enough to show for.
Whether or not you can trust if they deliver-- that's another question.
Most of these kickstarter's come down to trust. Successful kickstarts were premised foremost on the fact that trust could be placed in somebody attached to a well-recognized franchise-- that includes people like Chris Roberts, Mark Jacobs, Richard Garriott, or Dan Vavra.
Could the same be said of Brad McQuaid, or smaller projects with almost no name recognition? I rest my case.
Lulz.
I think this trend of "Kickstart my game so we can make it the way it was truly MEANT to be made!" will eventually go away, once people realize that the end result is almost invariably a game no less shittier than it was meant to be.
They may not last long, but neither will their victims. More power to the hardcore PvP community. I'm definitely not one of them.
I'd just like to point out that 3/4 of the leading members of the community, people who have been there joining in the discussions for a couple years at least, barely even care about pvp. A lot of us just want to be crafters or farmers and hang out. I like fighting, it's what I plan to be doing, but if I want that I can do it in any game. The draw for me isn't the pvp, it's the game and the world as a whole. I'm sorry that the thought of pvp turns so many of you off from this, games in general shouldn't have to be like that. If it's any comfort, there are a lot of planned settlements that should be fairly docile so long as no one tries to kill them, and there's about 30 people in House Umbra who've signed up to hunt criminals and the game's not even done yet, so there should be whole swathes of the continent that are relatively safe.
I'm trying to say that there's a place where pretty much any kind of player will be welcome, this isn't really a game "about" PD pvp like DayZ or any of that.
This game sounds great, but haven't they been trying to make for 10 years? Little hesitant in throwing money towards it because of this. Also they made a demo to shop around to get funding from a publisher and I guess failed so they are trying to make that into a game? That is what I got from the jist of it, also another flag for me to throw any money at this.
The direction sounds great though, will keep an eye on it.
A lot of people seem confused about this. Here's the deal: To say they've been making it for 10 years isn't really accurate, though some of the concepts have been around since 2002, when they took their first stab at building the game. They couldn't get publisher backing for the tech demo they created at the time and ended up canceling the project in 2006 I think. Then they went on with their lives for a while until they completely restarted in 2012 (paring down the design a lot too) which led to the first Kickstarter attempt in 2013, which failed. They then took some time to regroup, switched from Hero to Unity engines, brought on a new lead programmer, rebuilt the game in Unity and brought it back to Kickstarter with a much more advanced tech demo, which is what's going on right now.
To add to what Psi said, the shop on their site has been open since January 2014 and was meant to raise a limited amount of money to build a playable concept demo for the game. This hasn't failed, it has actually succeeded beyond original expectations to be more of a foundation to build their game on. Check out the Kickstarter to see some of their progress.
I would add that between their cancellation in 2006/2007 and their restart in 2012, even their company changed and everything is different than before.
NOTE: Sorry for the huge hell of wall-of-text, it might be worth to spend a couple of minutes reading it if you plan supporting this project, also make sure you use the zoom function on the screen shots, otherwise you won’t be able to read them (pop up button at the top right side of the image.).
Hello, I’m Myobi, a member from MMO-Champion that have been following Trials of Ascension for a while now, I’m not here to try to convince anyone of nothing, everyone has their own brain to make their own decisions and the same applies to their wallets…
But as I said, I’ve been following this project and taking a couple of screen shots for a while now, if it’s okay I would like to just ask a couple of screen shots about some of them…
http://goo.gl/A0phro
First of all, I would like to know why is Forged Chaos reporting me for copyright infringements for content that is or used to be public, shouldn’t they be focusing in Trials of Ascension?
http://goo.gl/wB7fLp & http://goo.gl/atrKm6
Then, taking in mind that Trials of Ascension ONLY programmer was only hired in 26 Feb. 2014, I would like to know why a team such as Forged Chaos would even start a video game project without anyone in the team itself being capable of programming?
http://goo.gl/umK0tQ & http://goo.gl/TBKGjB
With also brings me to ask, even despite that Trials of Ascension was suspended for a couple of years, the truth is that the domain was created back in 2001, meaning that the core team had until now to grab a set of tools and learn how to use them properly to develop their most “innovating” MMORPG ever, yet instead of that they actually attempted a 750,000$ Kickstarter empty handed and only after it failed that they decided to hire their ONLY programmer to develop them a technical demo to attempt yet another Kickstarter, my only questions is…. Why? If Forged Chaos members are that busy that in over 10 years they couldn’t be arced learning essentials skills needed for a project such as Trials of Ascension, why would they even bother with the project?
http://goo.gl/Q6Drh4 & http://goo.gl/EGEbJ0 & http://goo.gl/ozlDA7
Before moving on about Teddy, I also happen to have a couple of questions about the methods used to gather the money to hire him, you guys had, well, still have a “Store”, despite the fact that it does not look as fancy as it used to, it still confuses the hell out of me…
It clearly says “Store” and I believe that is no secret that it was being used to sell items & services to a game that had/has yet to come to existence (my personal favorite being the 45$ in-game Kite – Dragon and its magnificent placeholder picture), yet after reading the “Backers Agreement” carefully, it clearly states that upon my purchase I fully agree that my purchase wasn’t a purchase, but a donation and the product bought is simply a reward that Forged Chaos has no obligation to give or refund no matter what, not only that but they are also sweet enough to inform me that donation are not tax-deductible… cute.
Despite my personal opinion about such amazing practices, why not just to run a more common(?) donation system from the very beginning? It’s like walking into a game shop, “donate” 50$, be allowed to pick a video-game that I might not even be able to walk away with… eck, is that even legal?
http://goo.gl/BsJ76J & http://goo.gl/8TRJiJ
Besides the money spent on Teddy, I’m aware that you guys have been outsourcing quite a lot of stuff via freelancers from forums such as Unity, personally I have nothing against that, but since you guys had a goal of 60,000$ with that “Store”, would it be possible some clarification about how was those 60,000$ distributed for the development of the technical demo that you showed us in your new Kickstarter attempt? I’m aware that this question was already made multiple times in Trials of Ascension forum, but besides the “beer and hookers” answer from the lead “developer” there wasn’t much of an answer, unless I got it wrong and he wasn’t actually joking about it…
http://goo.gl/x9FNlm
The same is happening already with the Kickstarter already, I believe that people are giving their own money to your cause, it’s only natural they request a little of clarification in return, I find it quite reasonable if you ask me, yet why do you guys keep avoiding it?
http://goo.gl/9NvEn1 & http://goo.gl/UQjOqm & http://goo.gl/XPSBAj
To wrap up with the financial questions, I have a last one and something that I would like to clear up as well, and I’ll start with just that… I’ve been called multiple times a liar in other forums for stating things such as that Trials of Ascension charging 500$ dollars for a game demo, but allow me to quote the screen shots above:
“Anyone that donates enough to earn the Champion badge or higher before we complete the demo is guaranteed access!”
“Conscript 5$, Brawler 25$, Enforcer 50$, Warrior 100$, Warlord 250$, Champion 500$, Hero 1000$, Legend 2500$, Immortal 5000$, Ascendant 10000$”
Makes me wonder how many more “lies” could I clear up just by spending more time researching about your project and pressing my PRT SC key…
That said, my last question financial related question.
So far I guess we can say that you guys neither are developing a game, due the lack of essential skills for it, such as programming nor you are publishing a game since you are not the ones doing the actual funding, tell me, if game developing is as easy as begging for “donations” around the internet in order to hire people such as Teddy to develop a game for us in order for us to make a profit from, wouldn’t we all just be doing that? What prevents an idiot such as me, from “developing” a “game” such as Trials of Ascension?
http://goo.gl/iFJWtf & http://goo.gl/yoSycG
Let’s move on to the ways that the “fans” have been using to advertise this project shall we, this one should be quick, I promise! Even if not important I just got to ask…
Why are “fans” that happen to be registered in the forum since 2013 without making a SINGLE POST in the forum of the game they so much love, coming back to life just now to make threads such as “Lets spread the word!” about the Kickstarter?
Resulting in threads such as this one from Star Citizen forum: http://goo.gl/mzB0sO
No offensive, but with attitudes from “fans” such as those, you won’t even be needing those “lying scum” from MMO-Champion forum to convince people that this is just a scam, what do you guys actually think that people will believe when newly created accounts start popping up in their forums, asking their users, for their money? Kind of obvious that one… why isn’t Forged Chaos at least requesting their supporters to stop such kind of behavior, c’mon it’s a fairly small and loyal community, it wouldn’t be that hard.
I could keep shooting away questions like these all day, but I believe that I might already have taken enough of your time, again I apologize for the huge wall-of-text and I’ll like to remind Forged Chaos and their fans that it isn’t me or anyone from MMO-Champion that has something to prove, we are not the ones making a profit here, we are not the ones making promises, we are just a bunch of people like anyone else, we have the right to our opinions and the freedom to discuss them , yes most of people around there believe this to be a scam, honestly you can’t blame them considering all the shit we have seen so far, if your Kickstarter fails yet again, feel free to use us as an excuse as some of you already started doing, the most “innovating” MMORPG failing because a random group of people with a negative opinion started talking about it in a gaming forum, just amazing.
Also, before leaving, allow me to share with you a couple of MMORPGs made with the same engine as Trials of Ascension (Unity), some of them being made by just 1 or 2 guys others without having any kind of funding:
Legacy Of last Dragon:
Neojac :
Project Kyrill:
Reign of Darkness:
Project AnaKonda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyZ99A29iiw
Feel free to compare them to the glimpses of what looks like gameplay from Trials of Ascension in their new video ~
I would also like to challenge you to go into Unity forums and ask around how many players can a Unity made MMORPG can hold without getting huge performance issues, once you got the answer ask yourself, can that be even considered a MASS multiplayer?
Thanks for your time,
Good luck with the Kickstarter.
Ok, lets see what you did there, but first for those who still questioning the amount of years this project started, check here on their first kickstarter, and scroll down to Money Distribution:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forgedchaos/trials-of-ascension-a-truly-innovative-mmorpg
"We’re asking for $750,000 dollars to produce ToA. This budget would have been laughable for an MMO when we were first developing ToA back in the early-2000s, but with our “less is more” design approach, incredible tools like the HeroEngine, and our head-start on development, we’re confident that we can meet our goals within that budget."
Gamespot reference to Trials Of Ascension back from 2002:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/trials-of-ascension-unveiled-web-site-launched/1100-2861849/
http://www.toa-wiki.com/wiki/ToA:Shadowpool_Studios
From Hero Engine forum, and for what the devs say there they just started to LEARN how to use it around 2012, you serious? WHat you guys have been doing for over 15 years at this point?
https://community.heroengine.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=18507;area=showposts;start=15
So you started the project in 2002 or even earlier as stated by the devs, without any experience in gaming developing whatsover, you received at least 60k in fundraising that we know of, (as stated for example here ---> http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/09/26/trials-of-ascension-will-include-playable-dragons/) and as stated in your first kickstarter try, showed a AMA in Ten Ton Hammer building a shack using the same ONE plate armor and ONE cloth armor, as you showed on those screenshots taken from the same videos you showed on your youtube channel with at least two years old, and im sorry to burst your bubble but those fps loss are hardware and not software, whenever your get closer to the models you are lacking on processing power to render them aka hardware.
And those last screenshots with that floor map not even put to scale to the models is laughable at best, scale wise you are showing your models at the size of an ant, thats beginner work at best, and shows that you guys dont have a single clue in how to make a game and you guys dare to ask 600k from a previous 750k failed kickstart attempt, thats criminal, delusional and apparently you guys can sleep at night asking peoples money for it.
Which the only possible solution is you guys gonna outsource everything, because the devs dont know how to make a game and didnt even bother in 15 years to learn besides beginner work in the last 3 years, and you guys changed from Hero to Unity3D because, thats the beauty of it, it allows people to do professional work with a easy learn curve, Hero is also a very good engine but its not for everyone, you need some know how at hand, but i believe they gonna change that in the future.
Which reminds me that since my beta statement is wrong you guys where asking in your light the forge campaign 500 dollars for a pre alpha demo?
Is this what you guys accomplished in 15 years?
To promote this second kickstarter attempt you guys choose to promote your game by going into other games forums, Eve Online, Elder Scrolls Online, Star Citizen and the list goes on, is that your PR strategy? Its idiotic and its hurting you project.
All i see is short videos of basic stuff, a spider walking, somewhat high rendering of images, which when you gonna go to see those horrendous and poor quality videos with a hand full of mechanics at best showing few diferent basic props, one sword mechanic, a shield, and shack being build, as i stated before, this is now what you have to offer and to back your 600k pledge, the rest is hopes and dreams and by 2015 that is old news, sounded good in 2002, not anymore, you guys are a decade late.
You guys didnt even bother to make the props from you previous Light the Forge campaign, and where charging money with images of concept art of those items, even some items didnt even had concept art to show, just a placeholder, and yet you have about a dozen classes in the making, in a MMO game, and you plan to finish this MMO is two years when in the last 15 you are only showing a three year progress with basic work at best, not even amateur...for an MMO? You guys even realise what it takes to make an MMO? You guys even know whats an MMO technical wise?
In your recent lifted NDA you are yet again preventing fans to show videos and images of actual gameplay, why? Thats what we want to see, what are you guys afraid of? This is your opportunity to shine with a kickstart pledge open, makes no sence.
I am a investor, its my role as a responsible one and it should be for everyone, to research about the project my money is gonna fund, its nothing special to ask questions, its mundane, theres no conspiracies here, i see your forums and those perfect syntax posts everywhere, not even political debates are like that, it all feels so shady and spooky, your twitter, youtube and facebook is dead social wise and still, in your forum, you have about 4k discussions on your forum with about 124k messages with 2k+ registered members, am i the only one who smells something fishy here?
Aw, and thank you for quoting from wiki what middle-ware means, since you didnt even made an effort to elaborate about it.
You guys remind me those weird cults that at the end the preacher makes all disciples commit mass suicide, its creepy.
Good luck to the backers and good luck to FC, because at the end everyone will be hurt with this.
lol the trolls are strong with this one!
Here have this, I am backing the game because I can and want to. Happy to take the risk along with every other kickstarter.
What have forged chaos done exactly that makes you upset?! That is a lot of research for someone happy to let people make up their own mind about their own money - really, why do you care so much?!
The short version; if theirs is a scam then it is the worst one in the history of scams, 12 years for 60k, there are easier and quicker ways to make a fast buck without putting your face and dreams on them.
I too am supporting them because I can and want to.
The issues and questions presented by Myobi and Konishiwa are alot the same I would, myself. This counter to them with "troll" and "lies" talk doesn't simply counter legitimate concerns. It's like you're saying, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!".
Are these devs competent? Some are saying no. The rebuttal is, "troll!". Well, don't just say that, but show us otherwise.
This issue that screams the most to me, at this point, that there's a real problem is this..
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6588452#6588452
People say, "there is a video! there is a tech demo!", but they made it with money from a funding drive, which means they don't have the capacity to chalk it up to their own hours, which means they can't (?) make a video on their own, and the gathered money was (albeit with no guarantee!) on promises of in-game items in a game which does not yet exist because they need kickstarter money to hire people who know how to code.
I don't agree with their methodology? All the other shit aside, this is rotten. This is messed up. Unorthodox isn't the word for this. It's like, "let's see how far we can take this". What's next? Will they promise free expansions to their non existent game?
What the f is going on here? All of Myobi's and Konishiwa's 10 paragraphs aside, this, right here, this is madness, this is not Sparta. This is out of control and wrong.
Yes Myobi, a suicide cult...
You've got a group of people who make encouraging comments and donate a bit of money on Kickstarter (obviously not any life savings with the current total) And they are called a suicide cult by the guy who has spent hours on end compiling data to try and prove there is something wrong with the game.
Most of your qualms basically describe crowdfunding. I respect your determination Myobi, but you are way off here.