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Whos Myobi?
Why are you referring to other members while quoting with my posts?
What group of people?
I didnt spend hours, took me what...15 minuts of my time, i just made a quick google search, copied couple links, and made a post, do you think it takes hours and hours to make the posts i made? Everyone can go search for that info, there is so few information outside the ToA forum that makes it easy to get.
/facepalm
Now im confused.
Sorry, wrong wall of text. You and Myobi both posted long posts and I didn't keep them straight.
Anyway, the Suicide cult thing was silly. I was referencing the research Myobi had done previously, not you and did get the quotes mixed up.
I speculate one or more of these "devs" are in guilds and/or communicated with guilds to whom they promised something to the effect of "being the first to test-play dragon character race" or some such, if they support the game in social media and forums. I think it is cult-like, and I think you know it.
How do we know something that you speculate?
I have been following ToA since 2004, I've donated and am on the backers forum. I haven't received any offer like this. I haven't even seen FC say any more about sharing ToA other than generalities like "spread the word". There is a click contest on the kickstarter page that is the closest thing I suppose.
There is a difference between a supporter and a cult. I think that is something that we don't have to speculate about.
So, then, the game has been "in development" off and on for 10+ years, and people who claim otherwise (e.g. posts from others in this thread countering the claim as "lies", that the game has only been in production 8 months to a few years, I can sift back and cite them if you like) are lying? I mean, I knew this from my own research, but it's nice to hear from the counter-point this "supposed lie" is, indeed, not a lie.
See, Spork, you're not the one pointing and saying, "lies, lies", but people are and it's convoluting the issue. What exactly are the lies being told by opponents to ToA, in your understanding, being a 10+ year supporter? Which are the truths?
The most common misconceptions I've seen are that ToA has had a crowdfunding effort prior to their 2013 Kickstarter, and that the Developers are making a bunch of fake profiles to drum up interest in the game. I can confirm there was no fundraising effort prior to the failed kickstarter, and there is no evidence of the other claim.
As to your concern about the development time. It is true, they have only been actively producing the current rendition of the game since Late January/Early February 2014, so a little over a year. When they started in 2002 Shadowpool failed to get funding from investors, and they weren't looking to crowdfund as that wasn't common so they canceled around 2007. I can't remember when they announced cancellation but the website lasted at least until 2007.
They restarted development in 2012 as Forged Chaos (a much smaller group at first) with a mind to launch a Kickstarter. When their first kickstarter failed FC switched to the Unity engine and started over, as they had been planning to do most of the development after KS they made a much better effort to prove concept this time utilizing funds from crowdfunding effort on their website which started in January 2014. I suggest watching the video on the KS and checking out the Ten Ton Hammer article where they play the demo and are interviewed to see the progress that has been made.
To simplify, they tried and failed in 2002-2007. They started over in 2012, but made big steps forward in 2014 alongside a 67,000 dollar crowdfunding campaign.
Considering how many of you have been making new accounts all over other gaming projects forums in order to request support for Trials of Ascension Kickstarter, you are in no position to complain. Also, spreading lies? Did you even what I wrote? What part of it do you consider to be a "lie"?
Ahh yes, the usual, cover your ears and call me a troll over and over, it will make everything much better...
Please, at least consider in learning the meaning of the word before throwing it around like that.
Oh, I'm not upset mate, just because I might have a negative opinion towards something doesn't make me an upset/unhappy person. Also, I usually make a little research before throwing my money at something, I thought it was one of the most logic things to do before “investing” on something, guess I was wrong! As for why am sharing my opinion with others, because I can… the question is, why do you care if I do? Don't worry, if Trials of Ascension is the real deal and is as "innovating" as Forged Chaos claims, it's not my opinion that will stop it.
Friend, no offense mate, but I said it myself, it’s none of my business who you trust or who you throw your money at, I expressed some legit concerns about this project and their practices, I backed it up with screen shots and sources to avoid having people saying that I’m making shit up.
Also, following your logic Trials of Ascension members are a bunch of trolls, since they are just running around making new accounts over other video game projects in order to advertise ToA. Also, get something straight here, you are NO ONE to tell ANYONE to leave, this is a public forum, as long people follow its rules they are allowed to express their opinions, like it or not.
It's okay mate, I understand, so many words after all! It's easy to get confused right? Do like most of you do, point at me and keep calling me troll, it's just so much easier. *pat pat*
Also if you actually believe that my "qualms basically describe crowdfunding", shows how much you know about crowfunding.
----------------------------
Long story short, "omg troll!", "omg only lies!" and so far not a single answer to any of my questions, the usual, not even really surprised by it.
Not sure about development experience on anything but the prior iteration of ToA, or what their degrees are in. I've seen screenshots from the previous demo they made, but I don't know who made them.
I am happy with how their current demo is looking and shaping up though. If you aren't feel free to be critical. I am just giving my view like you are giving yours.
Now I used the word misconceptions instead of lies because that what the wrong statements that have been said may have been. When people start going from forum to forum to spead wrong info, even if they didn't know it was wrong, it really is no different than a lie. (Not saying you, but I have seen others)
You'll get that from both "sides", I seen people from Trials of Ascension claiming that we are hired by Blizzard to bring Trials of Ascension to ruin, others claiming that we work for game Curse looking to make profit via… shit I don’t even really know anymore, some really hilarious things I must admit, yet nothing as fancy as that, just a bunch of random guys talking about it in a gaming forum, even we don’t entirely agree with each other in there, in fact, there are a couple of members from Trials of Ascension forum participating in that thread for a while, really nice and polite people I must say, thus why I believe that people should judge EVERYONE based on “their” groups actions.
As for the cult thingy, it’s quite simple, again, most people just generalize an entire community based on a couple of members, it happens, everywhere around the world, nothing new about that, I've participated on Trials of Ascension forum myself, I tried to bring some of these concerns to them, every post I made was the same old, same old, “troll this”, “troll that”, no real answers, until I got fed up with it and told someone (Fornax) that I couldn’t give a flying fuck about such kind provocations, was quite unfair to him honestly, he wasn’t really the one doing it, I was just quite fed up with it, therefore I’m not in much position to judge you here… still, it was enough to get me permanently banned from their forums, quite unfair if you ask me, perma ban for saying fuck while some members were there flaming people heavily for just not fully supporting ToA actions. Still, point is, I did read some threads about people giving up upon their school money to make donations to Trials of Ascension, putting a video game project no matter how “good” or “real” it might be in front of your own education is seen as something extreme by many, thus why some will compare them to any kind of fanatic, generalization does the rest….
Myobi, don't you think you are being judgmental here. You are talking about why you think a game is bad by reading some posts on the ToA forums and noticing people said they are making some sort of sacrifice to donate. Do you really have their best interest at heart? If so, why have you participated in re-posting what they have said on your forum and then mocking what they have to say?
I know I am off topic and this really doesn't have to do with Trials of Ascension, but neither did your last post. If you don't want to be labeled a troll, stop being so mean to people. I don't mind if you bring valid criticisms forward. Valid criticism is why ToA's second Kickstarter is so much better than their first. Please let us know why you don't like the current kickstarter content. Personally I think our community at the ToA forums is great, but even if they were the lousiest bunch of trolls the internet has ever seen, it doesn't really have to do with the game's progress.
I'm skeptical of a lot of things, especially in small community games. Ever heard of Mortal Online? I've played a number of games with developer or staff corruption going on, and knowledge of when and where certain things will appear will be very valuable information. I don't think its too tinfoil hat to be wary of such a thing in this day and age, in a smaller game. Especially one thats considered a scam...
I remain confused, where is the scam?
If you do not want to support them with money, don't.
These comments seem to be overflowing with tinfoil.
There is no scam.
They've taken donor money and built some stuff to get to this point.
Things I can think of off the top of my head they've built:
To me, the construction system is the biggest thing they've done. It's customized. You can build anywhere that's flat and minus obstacles (you can cut down trees to clear them out). You build a foundation, then the walls around it in sections, then the roof. It's built according to a plan, so the real customization comes from the player who makes the construction plan as far as the structure goes. What you put inside of the structure, be it a player owned house or business or community structure is of course up to the owner.
Anyone who wants to know more or see for themselves can go to their site.
Once upon a time....
Fixed for accuracy, saying they built it is insulting to the guy they paid to do all the work.
The fact that the founders of TOA couldn't scrape together money, take a loan out on their houses, or get investors to finance it should be a HUGE red flag to anyone that hasn't drank the koolaid.
It's insulting to rely on the fans of a franchise to finance your games, if you're not going to believe in the product to risk everything to bring it to market why should I?
Morals and financials aside, have you guys objectively looked at the rewards on the kickstarter? $500 to get a lifetime sub when AAA trials charge a fraction of the price and when subscription based games are going free to play for the majority.
None of their tiers appeal to me and believe me, I was ready to spend a considerable amount of money if anything was worth even close to what they're asking.
Blaming haters and people that just don't get it will be a lot easier for them to stomach rather than admitting there aren't enough "hardcore" gamers that believe they can execute the game without outsourcing almost everything.
If they're only at $20k in 2 days I doubt they'll get to $600k when the game is supposedly going to be free to play and the rewards are mostly digital (unless you throw in a bunch of addons).
At the end of the day I wish them the best of luck despite my skepticism, hell I'm a back and I followed their "LTF campaign" from conception to when it closed. I just see them making mistake after mistake(overpricing stuff like housing, expensive pets, and so forth and so on) and then not learning from said mistakes.
TOA could have had a lot of potential, it's a real shame they didn't take the deals they were offered a decade ago, compromising is part of life and giving up a few features to see the light of day would have been a lot better than cutting 90% of their races/content in order to "possibly" see the light of day.
Totally agree.
Also im confused as a result of the energy and effort of hostility towards the project, specifically by those two who wall of txt everything in an effort to justify their position.
Why I think that the game is bad? Did you even read my first post? I only spoke about Forged Chaos business practices and actions, as far as I remember, I never mentioned much about the game itself, in fact, I don’t even know if you can consider what they have so far a “game” yet.
Now, the best interest of whom? Forged Chaos? No, no I don’t, I find their business practices completely disgusting and an insult to any true indie game developer. Of the people who are planning to support Trials of Ascension? To heart? No, I care enough to tell them what I know and what I think about it, what they decide to do after that it’s their own business, that’s about it.
Also I assume you are talking about this:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1536961-Trials-of-Ascension-Shady-Practices-and-the-Big-Crowdfunding-Debate/page214
Yes, it’s true, I re-posted it there, what’s the problem with that? Mocked what people have to say? People from this thread? Mate, the page is there, anyone can read it. The only thing I mocked in there was the fact that someone over Trials of Ascension forum was accusing the members of MMO-C to be working for Curse, it’s just simply ridiculous, just the idea that we are getting paid to discuss this in a forum, get real xD
Being mean you say? Considering that I was already insulted multiple times, I would say that I’m behaving quite nice so far. Want “on-topic” and “valid criticism” we can go back to my first post than…
Well, when you force somone to give them money, it ain't a scam, its robbery.
i backed the game. Mainly because its the kind of mmo i want to see more of.
But i give this game very little chance of reaching its 600,000 goal. A niche mmo with no existing license or world to draw from being made by first time developers would be lucky to get 300,000.
Hate on mortal online all you like but it was released without a kickstarter and is now 5 years on and still going and no i dont play it.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
No one is forcing you to read it. But thanks for once again proving one of my points... keep up the good work.
"Why I think that the game is bad? Did you even read my first post? I only spoke about Forged Chaos business practices and actions, as far as I remember, I never mentioned much about the game itself, in fact, I don’t even know if you can consider what they have so far a “game” yet."
Of course it's not a game yet. They're trying to make it a game and they need money to do that. Tell you what, you make an MMO and tell us how long it took you. I'll be looking in about 15 years for your answer. I hope you have a way to support yourself in the meantime.
"Now, the best interest of whom? Forged Chaos? No, no I don’t, I find their business practices completely disgusting and an insult to any true indie game developer."
Why? Because they're game designers rather than coders? Because they are asking for financial support to build something that the big companies won't do?
"No, I care enough to tell them what I know and what I think about it, what they decide to do after that it’s their own business, that’s about it."
And yet here you are, along with a few others, along with all the effort put into that original hit piece, carrying this to a level that's best described as "intensely vindictive".
"The only thing I mocked in there was the fact that someone over Trials of Ascension forum was accusing the members of MMO-C to be working for Curse, it’s just simply ridiculous, just the idea that we are getting paid to discuss this in a forum, get real xD"
That was me who posted that at the ToA site. You are misrepresenting what I said. Here's what I posted:
Yeah, well, I'm losing my patience. That scam site is starting to show up with new posters at MMORPG.com.
Worse yet is that I've got a history there. For years I've posted about Sandbox game design only to have a few well used names show up to do their worst. Not just with me, there's some other posters over the years who've noticed those names and their actions too.
I've seen others refer to this (over there), but I suspect it's all about RMT (Real Money Trade). See, there's a lot of money to be made with RMT, whether it's cash shop items that are bought wholesale and resold through gaming sites or advanced character sales or whatever.
The thing is, Sandbox games don't offer scripting of known quest content (scripts running to get the reward items) to be sold to gamers. And this game won't offer a cash shop to get special wholesale deals from that can be resold for profit. Like in Farmville where they got in trouble with the Feds because they didn't report the profits for taxes. That's the only reason we the public ever found out about those special wholesale "invite only" sales.
And if you look at that bunch, MMO-Champ is a Curse site, and Curse I believe is one of those RMT sites, interested in buying and selling to players (I THINK, not real sure as I ran out of time when I was looking it over. They do sell a subscription to their site at Curse.)
Anyways, years worth of always having people, usually the same few, sandbagging anything Sandbox has gotten to me. It's really hard to keep your cool, you know? And I really don't have the time to sit on forums all day long trying to argue with them, it feels like a losing cause. They just keep coming. I hardly even post there anymore until now.
End rant. Time to get away for a while and try again tomorrow.
First off, I didn't say you were "working for Curse". I said that MMO Champion was a Curse site. At the top of that page...
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1536961-Trials-of-Ascension-Shady-Practices-and-the-Big-Crowdfunding-Debate
...is a little drop down menu, "Curse Sites". And in that menu it lists MMO Champion. Am I wrong?
Secondly, I didn't say you guys were being paid to post here with your anti-ToA bullcrap. I said I SUSPECTED that you all are linked in to RMT and that that was why I SUSPECTED that you all don't like Sandbox games because they don't offer anything close to the same level of scripting and cash shop items to make money off of. Alas, that's just a suspiction as I specified with: "(I THINK, not real sure as I ran out of time when I was looking it over. They do sell a subscription to their site at Curse.)" And I know it's impossible to prove.
But I'll tell you, the degree of pure hate and energy from you all is strange, to say the least. Your personal war against this particular game effort leaves many questions.
"Well, when you force somone to give them money, it ain't a scam, its robbery."
No one's forcing you or anyone else to do anything. Yeah, now it's "robbery". This is just heading into the "deep end" of things.
Once upon a time....
Who says they're game designers? What qualifies them as game designers? What credentials do they have as game designers?
I guess in today's circuit everyone's a game designer. Apparently, everyone with 50 bucks is an alpha tester and that's a big fat joke, too. People go to school for this stuff, man. People labor under tutelage in studios for years in lesser positions before they're "game designers" and it usually includes recognition for their talents in programming or graphic arts.
Nonsense, I say. Un-freakin-real.
I'm glad that people like you don't determine who can do what in the free world. Talk about unreal.
Once upon a time....
Yeh, people in the free world can put up a big front insinuating they have the capability to pursue a project, when they're flippin clueless, evidenced by their failings and where they are right now. You're right. You, in the free world, can stand up for them, rejecting every ounce of sensible criticism about their ridiculous crusade. Have fun representing the lowest common denominator of freedom.