A lot of people didn't like the UI in ESO because of one reason; it was different. It's actually on the whole a very good UI that allows you to do everything in-game quite easily, you just have to do things a little differently than you did in all the other myriad of MMOs out there. But there's nothing wrong with being different.
The only area where it is a little rusty is the inventory management. You actually bring up a very good point, Ryan Getchell, in that the inventory is often an overlooked area of development, but it is probably one of the most used elements in any MMO over-time. In this respect I think ESO would have been better suited to providing inventory management in a similar vein to what GW2 has provided.
The game is great, the UI is not. It lacks ... everywhere. It is nice to have some minimalist UI - when you want to use something like that. Nameplates, damage numbers, characternames instead of account names, inventorysystem (ESO has the worst inventory system EVER).
I do love the 6 button task bar, its fun. I choose the interactive combat system of ESO over that of other games everytime. But the UI...
Personally, I am not a fan of an overly simplistic/minimalist UI.
I prefer to be able to move UI elements around and re-size them as I see fit. I like my target indicators, mini-map, chat window, hotbar(s), etc in specific locations on my display.
Granted, I have been somewhat spoiled by the level of UI customizability offered by the EQ mmos in which players are granted near complete control of UI element placement, size and volume without necessity of 3rd party add-ons.
Being locked into a UI framework feels extremely limiting and forces me to adjust my play-style and comfort / emmersion level to what the the game designers 'think' should be playable for the majority of players.
That's me though. I'm sure the greater majority would disgree.
Same here. I haven't played ESO a while, and I doubt I will, but the entire UI is something I profoundly dislike about the game. I always have the feeling I don't get the info I want to have at a given moment. I prefer more "classic" MMO UIs. EQ2 used to have a good one, GW2 currently has quite a good one, too.
Sorry, but ESO UI looks totally amateureish, like from the early MMO stoneage.
One of the things which aggravates me about the ESO devs was right away, how they have "their" vision, and then it's eat or die. I just prefer a game which adapts to my playstyle, not the other way around. There are so many comfort things in a good MMO. Like the GW2 AH: I can be at the depth of the dungeon, but if my bags are full, 2 minutes and I put it all quickly on the AH, and the dungeon run can go on. In that way I fight the actual MOBS not the UI or the system. Or nameplates: Sorry, but I can not memorize people in ESO just from the looks. Without nameplates, I never remember people at all. I could go on, but overall, I want a UI and system with options to play as I want, not as someone else wants me to play.
This is exactly how my feelings are and i can say that while i bought the game a month ago, i haven't played it almost at all due to its UI. I understand its an ES UI, but i cant get used to it as a mmo UI.
Hoping for a mod/addon in the future, which will allow me to build my own UI.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock Badspock - better do some research, eso b2p is actually terrible, it's b2p with cash shop, it might as well have been f2p. Console people are going to play without doing their homework and find out the hard way, it's going to be hilarious. This one is going to burn the console crowd so hard, I think it's going to drive consumers further away long term. As far as the ui it's ok, but in mmorpgs it helps the social atmosphere to have names, playing solo though it's nice.
I have to admit I'm a bit confused by this assessment. What I've seen is that for the box price you get everything the game has to offer at this moment. Which to me seems a reasonable amount of content. And I'm not sure why console players would be upset with a cash shop and having to purchase future DLC content as that has been standard operating procedure for many console games for some time now.
As to the game UI. Unless its changed majorly since beta, I felt it was one of the better game features.
It's b2p w/ a cash shop AND and an optional subscription. They decided not to pick a model and went full spectrum with a little bit of all payment routes.
The UI works great for single player use or for DPS who only take care of themselves, not so much for heal or support class who needs to watch the group and stay on top of situational awareness.
The responses to this article are a great example of how splintered the 'MMOG demographic' truly is. Also, it provides evidence to how resistant to change or innovation people are. I can only imagine how annoyed these same people will be when the industry moves on to virtual reality...imagine...after decades of spending time in a seated vertical position, hunched and looking into a pixelated screen, pecking away at a big plastic slab with dozens of buttons and a roundish thing that slides...oh, will they complain. Perhaps its arguable that the primary coping strategy for change for the average MMO gamer is well, MMOs.
As others have said, give us the choice. Things like not being able to realise a guild friend is standing next to you (without using add ons which aren't available on console version) to me kills the immersion.
But it's worse than that, many needed things are simply missing. Try for example to organise a guild bank, where items don't automatically stack. Without add ons you have to manually remove, stack then replace them, can take ages on a nearly full bank, or one click with an addon. It's glaringly obvious flaws like this that meant such add ons were needed in the first place.
Sure it can be played without them but many addons simply make the game a more enjoyable experience simply due to things missing from the game. A few that spring to mind
Shopkeeper, allowing you to keep track on what sold for how much in your guild store.
Kill counter, a must for PvP, let's you see for example your kill streak (how many people you killed before you get killed yourself)
Advanced filters, a must for sorting inventory.
Librarian, let's you know and keep track of what books you have already read.
One of the loot addons so that when you loot something, it actually tells you what it is in your chat box.
Rainbow reticle doesn't throw nameplates all over your screen, but does for example change your reticle to one colour for a friend, another for a guild member etc, so when you pass people in the ESO world, you know if you know them or not.
Etc, etc
Getting my tin foil hat out for a second, it's a bit of a coincidence that as the console editions are about to release, where they can't do anything about the UI due to no access to addons, mmorpg suddenly says the current UI is great after all.
Originally posted by ojustaboo Depends on what you enjoy imo.
In to role playing, minimalist can be fine.
In to PvP, I want all the info I can get.
As others have said, give us the choice. Things like not being able to realise a guild friend is standing next to you (without using add ons which aren't available on console version) to me kills the immersion.
But it's worse than that, many needed things are simply missing. Try for example to organise a guild bank, where items don't automatically stack. Without add ons you have to manually remove, stack then replace them, can take ages on a nearly full bank, or one click with an addon. It's glaringly obvious flaws like this that meant such add ons were needed in the first place.
Sure it can be played without them but many addons simply make the game a more enjoyable experience simply due to things missing from the game. A few that spring to mind
Shopkeeper, allowing you to keep track on what sold for how much in your guild store.
Kill counter, a must for PvP, let's you see for example your kill streak (how many people you killed before you get killed yourself)
Advanced filters, a must for sorting inventory.
Librarian, let's you know and keep track of what books you have already read.
One of the loot addons so that when you loot something, it actually tells you what it is in your chat box.
Rainbow reticle doesn't throw nameplates all over your screen, but does for example change your reticle to one colour for a friend, another for a guild member etc, so when you pass people in the ESO world, you know if you know them or not.
Etc, etc
Getting my tin foil hat out for a second, it's a bit of a coincidence that as the console editions are about to release, where they can't do anything about the UI due to no access to addons, mmorpg suddenly says the current UI is great after all.
No, B2P on PC is about to release. Theyre not talking about console UI (which even ZOS admtted needed "improvements")
Theres a lot of good sides to ESO they could have wirtten about those, but UI is abbysmal. UI is one of those things that when it works well you dont notice (it), but when its so lacking it gets annoying very quickly.
I really cant see how when you open inventory (or any menu) that litterally takes you out of the gameworld is supposed to be unnoticable. And then you have to interact with inventory itself which is bad on its own.
I think the UI is pretty good. Its a step away from the norm for an mmo, but that design choice suits the title imo. The three main things I don't like about it are:
1) Accessing potions/siege through that radial menu just seems daft somehow
2) I would prefer more combat feedback, either through standard systems like numbers etc, or through better animations/sounds/etc. One thing that really sands out for me is that I find myself dying unexpectedly, whereas in other games I am nearly always aware when my health is running low, or I am getting hammered by conditions etc. There is something just not clear about it in ESO.
3) I don't like UI mods. Especially in pvp I feel the UI should be the same for every player. If it needs heavy modding it means something is not right.
Originally posted by SirAgravaine The responses to this article are a great example of how splintered the 'MMOG demographic' truly is. Also, it provides evidence to how resistant to change or innovation people are. I can only imagine how annoyed these same people will be when the industry moves on to virtual reality...imagine...after decades of spending time in a seated vertical position, hunched and looking into a pixelated screen, pecking away at a big plastic slab with dozens of buttons and a roundish thing that slides...oh, will they complain. Perhaps its arguable that the primary coping strategy for change for the average MMO gamer is well, MMOs.
Indeed, that is why I do not understand why MMO companies have such big difficulties with the word "options". You could easily configure the EQ2 UI from the getgo in any conceivable way. ESO however pushes it's idea down your throat.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock Badspock - better do some research, eso b2p is actually terrible, it's b2p with cash shop, it might as well have been f2p.
That comment makes no sense I can't think of a B2P MMO that doesn't have a cash shop. I mean a lot of the P2P MMOs have cash shops on top of their subs now a days. Please provide an example of a B2P MMO without a cash shop, so I know what you are comparing it to.
Originally posted by Righteous_Rock Badspock - better do some research, eso b2p is actually terrible, it's b2p with cash shop, it might as well have been f2p. Console people are going to play without doing their homework and find out the hard way, it's going to be hilarious. This one is going to burn the console crowd so hard, I think it's going to drive consumers further away long term. As far as the ui it's ok, but in mmorpgs it helps the social atmosphere to have names, playing solo though it's nice.
I'm not sure I can name a "B2P" title that doesn't have a cash shop.
Guild Wars 2 - Cash shop
Secret World - Cash Shop
Come to think of it, many mmo's have cash shops regardless.
on topic:
As far as the UI goes, I've always loved the minimal ui.
So if a b2p game doesn't have a cash shop, how long do people expect the servers to run? Cash shop can keep paying to run them for the long haul.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think the minimalist UI is superb. It provides for a lot of depth of play and directionality (you can tell where attacks are coming from in the nav bar at the top, etc...) without adding a lot of clutter. I love the fact that it hides the elements of itself that are static when they aren't in use.
I like the UI during gameplay - nonintrusive and simple to navigate. My only gripes are the potion wheel (which seems to have been designed with consoles in mind, so hopefully it will be better for that crowd) and the lack of a search function within your inventory, bank and auction houses.
The UI is terrible. Some call it "minimalist" but its actually LACKING ( i guess minimalist is nicer word for it?). I can make other games UI look like ESO. Just turn off everything. Ta - da. Not to mention various menues. And guild traders? Dont get me started on THAT one.
GW2 UI is minimalist.
And yes, i can TURN OFF namplates in GW2. But i CANT TURN them ON in ESO. In what universe is THAT better option? People still attack me in dungeons/open world and im pushing vet levels lol. THATS how good UI is.
And you are absolutely right, players interact with UI almost constantly. THATS why its most important to be EASILY customizible, and not need 10-15 various addons (hope that somebody actually made addon and is updating it) to just make it into something not terrible. Thats addons that do BASIC stuff, nothing fancy like foundry stuff.
Its definitely NOT one size fits all element.
This.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
A lot of people didn't like the UI in ESO because of one reason; it was different. It's actually on the whole a very good UI that allows you to do everything in-game quite easily, you just have to do things a little differently than you did in all the other myriad of MMOs out there. But there's nothing wrong with being different.
The only area where it is a little rusty is the inventory management. You actually bring up a very good point, Ryan Getchell, in that the inventory is often an overlooked area of development, but it is probably one of the most used elements in any MMO over-time. In this respect I think ESO would have been better suited to providing inventory management in a similar vein to what GW2 has provided.
The game is great, the UI is not. It lacks ... everywhere. It is nice to have some minimalist UI - when you want to use something like that. Nameplates, damage numbers, characternames instead of account names, inventorysystem (ESO has the worst inventory system EVER).
I do love the 6 button task bar, its fun. I choose the interactive combat system of ESO over that of other games everytime. But the UI...
This is exactly how my feelings are and i can say that while i bought the game a month ago, i haven't played it almost at all due to its UI. I understand its an ES UI, but i cant get used to it as a mmo UI.
Hoping for a mod/addon in the future, which will allow me to build my own UI.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
It's b2p w/ a cash shop AND and an optional subscription. They decided not to pick a model and went full spectrum with a little bit of all payment routes.
The UI works great for single player use or for DPS who only take care of themselves, not so much for heal or support class who needs to watch the group and stay on top of situational awareness.
In to role playing, minimalist can be fine.
In to PvP, I want all the info I can get.
As others have said, give us the choice. Things like not being able to realise a guild friend is standing next to you (without using add ons which aren't available on console version) to me kills the immersion.
But it's worse than that, many needed things are simply missing. Try for example to organise a guild bank, where items don't automatically stack. Without add ons you have to manually remove, stack then replace them, can take ages on a nearly full bank, or one click with an addon. It's glaringly obvious flaws like this that meant such add ons were needed in the first place.
Sure it can be played without them but many addons simply make the game a more enjoyable experience simply due to things missing from the game. A few that spring to mind
Shopkeeper, allowing you to keep track on what sold for how much in your guild store.
Kill counter, a must for PvP, let's you see for example your kill streak (how many people you killed before you get killed yourself)
Advanced filters, a must for sorting inventory.
Librarian, let's you know and keep track of what books you have already read.
One of the loot addons so that when you loot something, it actually tells you what it is in your chat box.
Rainbow reticle doesn't throw nameplates all over your screen, but does for example change your reticle to one colour for a friend, another for a guild member etc, so when you pass people in the ESO world, you know if you know them or not.
Etc, etc
Getting my tin foil hat out for a second, it's a bit of a coincidence that as the console editions are about to release, where they can't do anything about the UI due to no access to addons, mmorpg suddenly says the current UI is great after all.
No, B2P on PC is about to release. Theyre not talking about console UI (which even ZOS admtted needed "improvements")
Theres a lot of good sides to ESO they could have wirtten about those, but UI is abbysmal. UI is one of those things that when it works well you dont notice (it), but when its so lacking it gets annoying very quickly.
I really cant see how when you open inventory (or any menu) that litterally takes you out of the gameworld is supposed to be unnoticable. And then you have to interact with inventory itself which is bad on its own.
I think the UI is pretty good. Its a step away from the norm for an mmo, but that design choice suits the title imo. The three main things I don't like about it are:
1) Accessing potions/siege through that radial menu just seems daft somehow
2) I would prefer more combat feedback, either through standard systems like numbers etc, or through better animations/sounds/etc. One thing that really sands out for me is that I find myself dying unexpectedly, whereas in other games I am nearly always aware when my health is running low, or I am getting hammered by conditions etc. There is something just not clear about it in ESO.
3) I don't like UI mods. Especially in pvp I feel the UI should be the same for every player. If it needs heavy modding it means something is not right.
thread totally pointless.
Not a fair competition if you turn off everything you can for ESO but don't do the same for GW2.
For me the ui from ESO only has one good thing: the view. Menues, Inventory, etc. are one big nightmare.
Indeed, that is why I do not understand why MMO companies have such big difficulties with the word "options". You could easily configure the EQ2 UI from the getgo in any conceivable way. ESO however pushes it's idea down your throat.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
That comment makes no sense I can't think of a B2P MMO that doesn't have a cash shop. I mean a lot of the P2P MMOs have cash shops on top of their subs now a days. Please provide an example of a B2P MMO without a cash shop, so I know what you are comparing it to.
So if a b2p game doesn't have a cash shop, how long do people expect the servers to run? Cash shop can keep paying to run them for the long haul.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
This.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I bought ESO because it was SUPPOSED to be a combination of an ESO world with DAOC AVA
The minimalist UI is the least of the problems of this action/twitch grinder ,that has seen virtually zero AVA development.