I'm curious about this. This isn't a "my mmo is better than yours" thread. I don't get to play as many different MMOs these days as I used to.
Proposal: Remove combat from the MMO you are currently paying. What is left? Are the other systems robust enough to add meaningful progression? Would you still play it long term(assuming you do now)? Or is what's remaining a husk of a game. Maybe it's all mini games with no lasting appeal. Maybe it's all mini games with long term goals. Perhaps it is more or less than you previously had thought.
Thanks in advance for keeping this civil and for the sake of wanting to know more about what is out there.
FF XIV ARR hands down. You can be any of the 7 or 8 crafting classes, which are seperate classes, and they have their own stories and everything. People have been just crafting since day one and they love their home in FF XIV ARR.
Originally posted by Jaedor I've leveled all my alts via crafting in Rift, and spend most of my time in Dimensions, which will not give me any xp or progression but is a mainstay for my fun.
Nice. Rift also has puzzle type rift events which require no combat and yield decent rewards.
EVE online I think would be fine without combat. UO and SWG also. I've spent weeks not doing combat in all three at some points just doing all sorts of projects. That said, I love my combat and pvp and would not personally like a game without combat but I think that non combat avenues of gameplay are hugely important.
But to be honest is combat the main focus on most MMOs and if you take that out you loose most of the content.
Now, there could be other good focuses, I would love to see a "Thief" based MMO where stealth was the main focus or maybe a sci-fi game where you spent a lot of the focus on building a cool customized spaceship or something but most MMOs are combat focused levelbased fantasy games. A car MMO with races is probably what would sell most though, something like "Grand turismo online".
And while there have been a small number of sandbox games without combat the one that should have made it big, Sims online did fail miserably so the question is if there is a big market enough to make a AAA game like that. Except for that car thing of course.
But to be honest is combat the main focus on most MMOs and if you take that out you loose most of the content.
Now, there could be other good focuses, I would love to see a "Thief" based MMO where stealth was the main focus or maybe a sci-fi game where you spent a lot of the focus on building a cool customized spaceship or something but most MMOs are combat focused levelbased fantasy games. A car MMO with races is probably what would sell most though, something like "Grand turismo online".
And while there have been a small number of sandbox games without combat the one that should have made it big, Sims online did fail miserably so the question is if there is a big market enough to make a AAA game like that. Except for that car thing of course.
Yea it is the main focus. But does it have to be?
The reason I brought up the "Brothers" game is that while it is a single player game, you are playing the two characters simultaneously. And one brother cannot survive without the other.
It promotes team play, in a single player game. Phenomenal! So imagine transferring that to an MMO. And instead of combat or conflict it promotes puzzle solving and teamwork.
Just because MMO's have taken the lazy route of always giving us combat as our main focus, does not mean that it is the only thing that will appease our sense of needing to achieve something.
Try this game and it will open your eyes, IMO.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by Boneserino Originally posted by Loke666No, it would fail miserably.But to be honest is combat the main focus on most MMOs and if you take that out you loose most of the content.Now, there could be other good focuses, I would love to see a "Thief" based MMO where stealth was the main focus or maybe a sci-fi game where you spent a lot of the focus on building a cool customized spaceship or something but most MMOs are combat focused levelbased fantasy games. A car MMO with races is probably what would sell most though, something like "Grand turismo online".And while there have been a small number of sandbox games without combat the one that should have made it big, Sims online did fail miserably so the question is if there is a big market enough to make a AAA game like that. Except for that car thing of course.
Yea it is the main focus. But does it have to be?
The reason I brought up the "Brothers" game is that while it is a single player game, you are playing the two characters simultaneously. And one brother cannot survive without the other.
It promotes team play, in a single player game. Phenomenal! So imagine transferring that to an MMO. And instead of combat or conflict it promotes puzzle solving and teamwork.
Just because MMO's have taken the lazy route of always giving us combat as our main focus, does not mean that it is the only thing that will appease our sense of needing to achieve something.
Try this game and it will open your eyes, IMO.
Go try transformice on steam, its the "mmo version" of brothers. It's also pretty boring.
I'm curious about this. This isn't a "my mmo is better than yours" thread. I don't get to play as many different MMOs these days as I used to.
Proposal: Remove combat from the MMO you are currently paying. What is left? Are the other systems robust enough to add meaningful progression? Would you still play it long term(assuming you do now)? Or is what's remaining a husk of a game. Maybe it's all mini games with no lasting appeal. Maybe it's all mini games with long term goals. Perhaps it is more or less than you previously had thought.
Thanks in advance for keeping this civil and for the sake of wanting to know more about what is out there.
You could remove combat from anything and it'd be terrible. Combat is as intricate to an MMO and RPG as any other system and to remove what I consider the best part of these games is a travesty.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by Jaedor I've leveled all my alts via crafting in Rift, and spend most of my time in Dimensions, which will not give me any xp or progression but is a mainstay for my fun.
Nice. Rift also has puzzle type rift events which require no combat and yield decent rewards.
Nice example. I'd add one of captains in STO who leveled through DOff-ing (except the tutorial and the first few levels until the system opens up), and one of my hobbitses who are in his 40s with only crafting and enjoying the festivals
It's a good idea, but not perfect - even if I used to say all the time that combat is the least important aspect of an Rpg. You need some (very tiny) amount of combat too I think.
The problem is not the combat, it's the massive, almost exclusive and top role of it in today's rpg games - which are barely rpg's anymore. As my favourite DM said countless times back in the days (especially after those 'rollplayers' started to show up in the club, around the time of the diablo abomination) "If you bump into a fight above the ones which has an important role within the story - you're doing it wrong". Rpg is not running ahead knee-deep in blood, rolling the dice all the time This trend in the last 10-15 years where your main interaction with the gameworld is merely killing everything on sight: a shame. And still, occasional fight could be necessary and has a part in moving the story forward.
So I'd prefer a question like: how does your mmo fare with only a minimal / occasional combat? And I think they'd do pretty fine Especially TSW, with the heavy focus on the story and lore, heck there are the saboteur missions where it's everything about avoiding combat... It could be a great adventure game. I'd miss the Wheel and the theory-crafting, but not the gear grind
In LotRO I almost never fight (except when leveling a new alt), there are truckloads of events, both official and player-organised, there's the cosmetic system, the music system, the crafting, the exploration deeds, etc. Not to mention the awesome community, no other mmo could compete with that... I sometimes simply log in for 1-2 hours just for some talk and goofing around.
AoC... well, AoC is the exception, as strange as it sounds, I like the combo system not to mention AoC has maybe the best dungeons among mmo's, great class synergy, cool mechanics... yep, I think AoC could keep a bit more than a minimal combat if the idea goes through, since it's fun. Not the mindless killing, just the unchaining of FrostFather or beating Vistrix for example
The only MMOs I've ever played that are more than a husk after removing the combat are crafting sim type sandboxes. Tale in the Desert (which actually has no combat), Wurm, and Xsyon, specifically.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
You could remove combat from anything and it'd be terrible. Combat is as intricate to an MMO and RPG as any other system and to remove what I consider the best part of these games is a travesty.
Integral is probably what you meant there. (Don't mind me, every once in a while I have an attack of English-major-itis.)
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
That's an interesting question! I think Fallen Earth was, for me, the most interesting without combat. Just cruisin' across the wasteland back before fast travel and it took forever even on a bike, travelling to certain spots where you knew you could get certain materials to craft stuff. Crafting itself was kinda... uhh unengaging but there were many recipes, many materials, the ambience of the game was unlike any mmo at the time i played it. But I think the OP's onto something. I played Blade n Soul, and that game's combat surpasses anything I've ever seen but it's so SHALLOW in every other way, so I couldn't stick with it in the end.
I'm curious about this. This isn't a "my mmo is better than yours" thread. I don't get to play as many different MMOs these days as I used to.
Proposal: Remove combat from the MMO you are currently paying. What is left? Are the other systems robust enough to add meaningful progression? Would you still play it long term(assuming you do now)? Or is what's remaining a husk of a game. Maybe it's all mini games with no lasting appeal. Maybe it's all mini games with long term goals. Perhaps it is more or less than you previously had thought.
Thanks in advance for keeping this civil and for the sake of wanting to know more about what is out there.
You could remove combat from anything and it'd be terrible. Combat is as intricate to an MMO and RPG as any other system and to remove what I consider the best part of these games is a travesty.
Intrinsic. But does it have to be the focus? All the time? Its like having all themepark MMO's and very few sandboxes. Not much choice.
Well we have hijacked the OP's thread, however it was inevitable given the title. He is actually looking for games that could be played in a reasonable fashion without using combat. And how you would do that.
Sorry about that.
Edit: LOL "integral" would work too. beat me to it Sun!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by Po_gg Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by JaedorI've leveled all my alts via crafting in Rift, and spend most of my time in Dimensions, which will not give me any xp or progression but is a mainstay for my fun.
Nice. Rift also has puzzle type rift events which require no combat and yield decent rewards.Nice example. I'd add one of captains in STO who leveled through DOff-ing (except the tutorial and the first few levels until the system opens up), and one of my hobbitses who are in his 40s with only crafting and enjoying the festivals
It's a good idea, but not perfect - even if I used to say all the time that combat is the least important aspect of an Rpg. You need some (very tiny) amount of combat too I think.
The problem is not the combat, it's the massive, almost exclusive and top role of it in today's rpg games - which are barely rpg's anymore. As my favourite DM said countless times back in the days (especially after those 'rollplayers' started to show up in the club, around the time of the diablo abomination) "If you bump into a fight above the ones which has an important role within the story - you're doing it wrong". Rpg is not running ahead knee-deep in blood, rolling the dice all the time This trend in the last 10-15 years where your main interaction with the gameworld is merely killing everything on sight: a shame. And still, occasional fight could be necessary and has a part in moving the story forward.
So I'd prefer a question like: how does your mmo fare with only a minimal / occasional combat? And I think they'd do pretty fine Especially TSW, with the heavy focus on the story and lore, heck there are the saboteur missions where it's everything about avoiding combat... It could be a great adventure game. I'd miss the Wheel and the theory-crafting, but not the gear grind
In LotRO I almost never fight (except when leveling a new alt), there are truckloads of events, both official and player-organised, there's the cosmetic system, the music system, the crafting, the exploration deeds, etc. Not to mention the awesome community, no other mmo could compete with that... I sometimes simply log in for 1-2 hours just for some talk and goofing around.
AoC... well, AoC is the exception, as strange as it sounds, I like the combo system not to mention AoC has maybe the best dungeons among mmo's, great class synergy, cool mechanics... yep, I think AoC could keep a bit more than a minimal combat if the idea goes through, since it's fun. Not the mindless killing, just the unchaining of FrostFather or beating Vistrix for example
Very thoughtful post, thank you!
I think you could get away with rewording the original question by saying minimal combat. You could probably get away with having combat as an equal but not greater than presence among all the other systems in place.
This is how I play MMOs. And I have been enjoying them, in all of their iterations, for a good 15 years or so now.
Some people feel it is impossible to make an mmo without combat. Or at the very least, it would be terrible haha. To those people, I respectfully disagree.
What if you didn't do any combat in gw2. What would your play sessions look like? I know there is crafting, gathering, jumping puzzles, mini games. Are there more? Someone gave a great example for eso. Rift, tsw, and lotro as well. What other mmos are people playing that we can add this filter to?
I think this is all really interesting BTW so thank you all for indulging me
Well, it's what I got out of the your OP. I apologize if isn't what you asked for. Old age and all that comes with it.
Your post was fine. It basically ran through the notion that non-combat gameplay tends to lack sufficient conflict to keep players interested, while also conceding that it's not impossible to do it. By pointing out that Sims Online proves it's possible, you also indirectly implied doing a non-combat MMO is very risky (since Sims Online shut down in 2008.)
Personally I've enjoyed a lot of games where combat wasn't involved or wasn't a focus. Offworld Trading Company is a recent one, and while it's in pretty rough/early shape currently I'm eager to see how it shapes up as they optimize it and polish gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm curious about this. This isn't a "my mmo is better than yours" thread. I don't get to play as many different MMOs these days as I used to.
Proposal: Remove combat from the MMO you are currently paying. What is left? Are the other systems robust enough to add meaningful progression? Would you still play it long term(assuming you do now)? Or is what's remaining a husk of a game. Maybe it's all mini games with no lasting appeal. Maybe it's all mini games with long term goals. Perhaps it is more or less than you previously had thought.
Thanks in advance for keeping this civil and for the sake of wanting to know more about what is out there.
I think this is an unreasonable question. Suppose I purchase an mmoRPG for the pve combat, I have received what I was expecting a pve combat game. Taking away the reason I purchased the game with your question after the purchase is backwards thinking for me as I wouldn't have purchased that game if it did not have pve combat.
Now suppose I purchased a mmoRPG that has pve combat and crafting and you remove crafting. That could end up being the same result depending on the detail of the crafting and how it is used. For example, if the results of crafting are only for pve combat which has been removed, well, same results as before.
Finally, suppose I purchased a mmoRPG because I want to play the crafting, housing and player to player role playing. Now suppose that game incidentally has pve combat. Taking away pve combat wouldn't affect that purchase as it wasn't purchased for the pve combat.
So, your question is backwards thinking to my mind. I understand what you are trying to pull here, but I am not going for it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Loktofeit If that was the case then there would need to be some replacement decay/destruction system to create the market and demand for what I trade, gather or create.
I don't understand that last sentence. Could you clarify what you mean there?
I meant to write players not payers. Generally meaning as a player, you would be supplying a demand by NPCs for various consumables, weapons, armor, etc. And assuming for arguments sake, the market behaves the same as if real players were needing combat related items.
That definitely works, but in a multi-player game it quickly begins to feel very artificial as it's a one-way street. You are interacting with a set of uncontrollable variables or, worse, an RNG. Social engineering and any extensive market manipulation is removed at that point. Even with a large playerbase, you quickly feel like you are playing a single-player game without players affecting the other end of things.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Tamanous For not being a real sandbox ESO offers a hell of a lot to do without killing a single thing.
If one makes a Nightblade they can:
1. Sneak and steal/pickpocket most everything they need for some professions while making coin.
2. Travel the world dodging all mobs using invisibility, unlock chests and looting resource nodes.
3. Enter most dungeons using sneak/invis and obtain nearly every skyshard and chests (if near mobs wait for others to kill mobs near them).
4. Manage a trade guild and store.
As far as I know you can level your craft to significant levels simply by crafting that has no connection to killing mobs. There certainly could be a few blocks to content at the highest levels so you would have to obtain certain items from others but that is part of non-combat living.
It works quite well for a game not really designed completely around crafting like so many upcoming sandbox games. In fact I sort of hate the heavy connection to crafting with combat as almost a secondary priority which can often make that the least fun component of those games.
Thanks! That is exactly the type of reply I was looking for.
If the combat was removed from ESO:
What is he sneaking past and dodging? Nothing will be attacking.
Who is buying the loot he grabs, and why? It's almost all components for combat-related gear and consumables
What would be the point of managing the guild store if no one needs better gear or consumables to fight higher level mobs... or any mobs?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Quirhid None of the MMOs I've played would fare well without combat in them.
Is that what you were after?
Not really but I appreciate your input. I'm more after discovering things about MMOs that I may not have known. For instance, if I did not do any combat in ESO, what would my play sessions look like? What type of character advancement is available to me? How diverse are the activities. Things like that.
Should there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.
Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Quirhid Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by Quirhid None of the MMOs I've played would fare well without combat in them. Is that what you were after?
Not really but I appreciate your input. I'm more after discovering things about MMOs that I may not have known. For instance, if I did not do any combat in ESO, what would my play sessions look like? What type of character advancement is available to me? How diverse are the activities. Things like that. Should there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.
Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
They absolutely matter. And I'll be a lvl 80 farmer haha! In fact, I think I may have been one in a previous mmo
Should there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.
Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
Of course there can be 'any' character advancement opportunities outside of combat. Crafting-only classes (level 80 farmer) tend to be a bad move, but every MMORPG I know about involves some additional form of progression (650/650 leatherworking, etc)
But yes, games definitely need to pick and choose the few things they do awesome, because doing a lot of things poorly usually doesn't work that great. (Except for aberrations like Skyrim, which does everything except graphics poorly. Despite that most players love it. Personally I find it moderately fun, but quickly tire of the mediocre balance and combat.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by QuirhidShould there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
Of course there can be 'any' character advancement opportunities outside of combat. Crafting-only classes (level 80 farmer) tend to be a bad move, but every MMORPG I know about involves some additional form of progression (650/650 leatherworking, etc)
But yes, games definitely need to pick and choose the few things they do awesome, because doing a lot of things poorly usually doesn't work that great. (Except for aberrations like Skyrim, which does everything except graphics poorly. Despite that most players love it. Personally I find it moderately fun, but quickly tire of the mediocre balance and combat.)
You can't really top the stakes which combat presents. Combat activities typically involve "you kill it, or it kills you". There isn't much that can carry more weight than that. You can acquire wealth, perhaps a racing or sport game. You can be a master craftsman. But none of those activities carry the significance of life or death. Thus they are treated as mini games or something to do when you're bored or waiting in a queue for some combat activity.
When you remove combat altogether, you remove mortality and something else takes its place. The reality of death is not at the forefront of or minds in this day and age. So things like professional sports become vaulted to a level of importance that may not have been otherwise.
So yes an mmo and it's combat are paramount. If your character chooses not to engage, what are their options and how much importance can you vest in them? Game designers balance that constantly. Adding or subtracting weight to various activities.
Comments
FF XIV ARR hands down. You can be any of the 7 or 8 crafting classes, which are seperate classes, and they have their own stories and everything. People have been just crafting since day one and they love their home in FF XIV ARR.
No, it would fail miserably.
But to be honest is combat the main focus on most MMOs and if you take that out you loose most of the content.
Now, there could be other good focuses, I would love to see a "Thief" based MMO where stealth was the main focus or maybe a sci-fi game where you spent a lot of the focus on building a cool customized spaceship or something but most MMOs are combat focused levelbased fantasy games. A car MMO with races is probably what would sell most though, something like "Grand turismo online".
And while there have been a small number of sandbox games without combat the one that should have made it big, Sims online did fail miserably so the question is if there is a big market enough to make a AAA game like that. Except for that car thing of course.
Yea it is the main focus. But does it have to be?
The reason I brought up the "Brothers" game is that while it is a single player game, you are playing the two characters simultaneously. And one brother cannot survive without the other.
It promotes team play, in a single player game. Phenomenal! So imagine transferring that to an MMO. And instead of combat or conflict it promotes puzzle solving and teamwork.
Just because MMO's have taken the lazy route of always giving us combat as our main focus, does not mean that it is the only thing that will appease our sense of needing to achieve something.
Try this game and it will open your eyes, IMO.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
The reason I brought up the "Brothers" game is that while it is a single player game, you are playing the two characters simultaneously. And one brother cannot survive without the other.
It promotes team play, in a single player game. Phenomenal! So imagine transferring that to an MMO. And instead of combat or conflict it promotes puzzle solving and teamwork.
Just because MMO's have taken the lazy route of always giving us combat as our main focus, does not mean that it is the only thing that will appease our sense of needing to achieve something.
Try this game and it will open your eyes, IMO.
Go try transformice on steam, its the "mmo version" of brothers. It's also pretty boring.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
You could remove combat from anything and it'd be terrible. Combat is as intricate to an MMO and RPG as any other system and to remove what I consider the best part of these games is a travesty.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Nice example. I'd add one of captains in STO who leveled through DOff-ing (except the tutorial and the first few levels until the system opens up), and one of my hobbitses who are in his 40s with only crafting and enjoying the festivals
It's a good idea, but not perfect - even if I used to say all the time that combat is the least important aspect of an Rpg. You need some (very tiny) amount of combat too I think.
The problem is not the combat, it's the massive, almost exclusive and top role of it in today's rpg games - which are barely rpg's anymore. As my favourite DM said countless times back in the days (especially after those 'rollplayers' started to show up in the club, around the time of the diablo abomination) "If you bump into a fight above the ones which has an important role within the story - you're doing it wrong". Rpg is not running ahead knee-deep in blood, rolling the dice all the time
This trend in the last 10-15 years where your main interaction with the gameworld is merely killing everything on sight: a shame. And still, occasional fight could be necessary and has a part in moving the story forward.
So I'd prefer a question like: how does your mmo fare with only a minimal / occasional combat? And I think they'd do pretty fine
Especially TSW, with the heavy focus on the story and lore, heck there are the saboteur missions where it's everything about avoiding combat... It could be a great adventure game. I'd miss the Wheel and the theory-crafting, but not the gear grind 
In LotRO I almost never fight (except when leveling a new alt), there are truckloads of events, both official and player-organised, there's the cosmetic system, the music system, the crafting, the exploration deeds, etc. Not to mention the awesome community, no other mmo could compete with that... I sometimes simply log in for 1-2 hours just for some talk and goofing around.
AoC... well, AoC is the exception, as strange as it sounds, I like the combo system
not to mention AoC has maybe the best dungeons among mmo's, great class synergy, cool mechanics... yep, I think AoC could keep a bit more than a minimal combat if the idea goes through, since it's fun. Not the mindless killing, just the unchaining of FrostFather or beating Vistrix for example 
Integral is probably what you meant there. (Don't mind me, every once in a while I have an attack of English-major-itis.)
Intrinsic. But does it have to be the focus? All the time? Its like having all themepark MMO's and very few sandboxes. Not much choice.
Well we have hijacked the OP's thread, however it was inevitable given the title. He is actually looking for games that could be played in a reasonable fashion without using combat. And how you would do that.
Sorry about that.
Edit: LOL "integral" would work too. beat me to it Sun!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Nice example. I'd add one of captains in STO who leveled through DOff-ing (except the tutorial and the first few levels until the system opens up), and one of my hobbitses who are in his 40s with only crafting and enjoying the festivals
It's a good idea, but not perfect - even if I used to say all the time that combat is the least important aspect of an Rpg. You need some (very tiny) amount of combat too I think.
The problem is not the combat, it's the massive, almost exclusive and top role of it in today's rpg games - which are barely rpg's anymore. As my favourite DM said countless times back in the days (especially after those 'rollplayers' started to show up in the club, around the time of the diablo abomination) "If you bump into a fight above the ones which has an important role within the story - you're doing it wrong". Rpg is not running ahead knee-deep in blood, rolling the dice all the time
This trend in the last 10-15 years where your main interaction with the gameworld is merely killing everything on sight: a shame. And still, occasional fight could be necessary and has a part in moving the story forward.
So I'd prefer a question like: how does your mmo fare with only a minimal / occasional combat? And I think they'd do pretty fine
Especially TSW, with the heavy focus on the story and lore, heck there are the saboteur missions where it's everything about avoiding combat... It could be a great adventure game. I'd miss the Wheel and the theory-crafting, but not the gear grind 
In LotRO I almost never fight (except when leveling a new alt), there are truckloads of events, both official and player-organised, there's the cosmetic system, the music system, the crafting, the exploration deeds, etc. Not to mention the awesome community, no other mmo could compete with that... I sometimes simply log in for 1-2 hours just for some talk and goofing around.
AoC... well, AoC is the exception, as strange as it sounds, I like the combo system
not to mention AoC has maybe the best dungeons among mmo's, great class synergy, cool mechanics... yep, I think AoC could keep a bit more than a minimal combat if the idea goes through, since it's fun. Not the mindless killing, just the unchaining of FrostFather or beating Vistrix for example 
Very thoughtful post, thank you!
I think you could get away with rewording the original question by saying minimal combat. You could probably get away with having combat as an equal but not greater than presence among all the other systems in place.
This is how I play MMOs. And I have been enjoying them, in all of their iterations, for a good 15 years or so now.
Some people feel it is impossible to make an mmo without combat. Or at the very least, it would be terrible haha. To those people, I respectfully disagree.
What if you didn't do any combat in gw2. What would your play sessions look like? I know there is crafting, gathering, jumping puzzles, mini games. Are there more? Someone gave a great example for eso. Rift, tsw, and lotro as well. What other mmos are people playing that we can add this filter to?
I think this is all really interesting BTW so thank you all for indulging me
What is a trade guild and store in ESO?
Your post was fine. It basically ran through the notion that non-combat gameplay tends to lack sufficient conflict to keep players interested, while also conceding that it's not impossible to do it. By pointing out that Sims Online proves it's possible, you also indirectly implied doing a non-combat MMO is very risky (since Sims Online shut down in 2008.)
Personally I've enjoyed a lot of games where combat wasn't involved or wasn't a focus. Offworld Trading Company is a recent one, and while it's in pretty rough/early shape currently I'm eager to see how it shapes up as they optimize it and polish gameplay.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Another fun use of combat - to have others do that for you! Of course if you're a GM that can help a lot
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?565222-L-UN-C-H-Leading-an-UNimportant-Chicken-to-the-Hornburg
Ok so let's remove combat from Guild Wars 2.
We'd still have crafting, jumping puzzles and exploration. But most of the stuff in the game would be useless.
So it would bore the crap out of me since combat is so central to the game.
I think this is an unreasonable question. Suppose I purchase an mmoRPG for the pve combat, I have received what I was expecting a pve combat game. Taking away the reason I purchased the game with your question after the purchase is backwards thinking for me as I wouldn't have purchased that game if it did not have pve combat.
Now suppose I purchased a mmoRPG that has pve combat and crafting and you remove crafting. That could end up being the same result depending on the detail of the crafting and how it is used. For example, if the results of crafting are only for pve combat which has been removed, well, same results as before.
Finally, suppose I purchased a mmoRPG because I want to play the crafting, housing and player to player role playing. Now suppose that game incidentally has pve combat. Taking away pve combat wouldn't affect that purchase as it wasn't purchased for the pve combat.
So, your question is backwards thinking to my mind. I understand what you are trying to pull here, but I am not going for it.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That definitely works, but in a multi-player game it quickly begins to feel very artificial as it's a one-way street. You are interacting with a set of uncontrollable variables or, worse, an RNG. Social engineering and any extensive market manipulation is removed at that point. Even with a large playerbase, you quickly feel like you are playing a single-player game without players affecting the other end of things.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If the combat was removed from ESO:
What is he sneaking past and dodging? Nothing will be attacking.
Who is buying the loot he grabs, and why? It's almost all components for combat-related gear and consumables
What would be the point of managing the guild store if no one needs better gear or consumables to fight higher level mobs... or any mobs?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Should there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.
Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Should there be any character advancement opportunities outside of combat? Tycoons and other economic simulators, Sim Cities and Sims do all those things better than MMOs do.
Who wants to be a lvl 80 farmer?
They absolutely matter. And I'll be a lvl 80 farmer haha! In fact, I think I may have been one in a previous mmo
Something Awful this way comes.
Of course there can be 'any' character advancement opportunities outside of combat. Crafting-only classes (level 80 farmer) tend to be a bad move, but every MMORPG I know about involves some additional form of progression (650/650 leatherworking, etc)
But yes, games definitely need to pick and choose the few things they do awesome, because doing a lot of things poorly usually doesn't work that great. (Except for aberrations like Skyrim, which does everything except graphics poorly. Despite that most players love it. Personally I find it moderately fun, but quickly tire of the mediocre balance and combat.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
But yes, games definitely need to pick and choose the few things they do awesome, because doing a lot of things poorly usually doesn't work that great. (Except for aberrations like Skyrim, which does everything except graphics poorly. Despite that most players love it. Personally I find it moderately fun, but quickly tire of the mediocre balance and combat.)
You can't really top the stakes which combat presents. Combat activities typically involve "you kill it, or it kills you". There isn't much that can carry more weight than that. You can acquire wealth, perhaps a racing or sport game. You can be a master craftsman. But none of those activities carry the significance of life or death. Thus they are treated as mini games or something to do when you're bored or waiting in a queue for some combat activity.
When you remove combat altogether, you remove mortality and something else takes its place. The reality of death is not at the forefront of or minds in this day and age. So things like professional sports become vaulted to a level of importance that may not have been otherwise.
So yes an mmo and it's combat are paramount. If your character chooses not to engage, what are their options and how much importance can you vest in them? Game designers balance that constantly. Adding or subtracting weight to various activities.