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[Column] EverQuest Next: Saying Goodbye to Storybricks
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Victor shares his thoughts on the Storybricks shutdown, and wonders what it means for the tech of Storybricks itself
Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s EverQuest Next: Saying Goodbye to Storybricks.
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Comments
Does anyone know anything about how Storybricks worked (in detail)?
If they had something actually useful, it is hard to believe they couldn't find a buyer.
Without them, this game loses a big part of its identity. I wonder what EQN will eventually be.
The EQN team stated that they still have all the work they did with Storybricks. They have the tech and systems still in place. When they teamed up with them, they payed for the use of that system, so they are still using it. All is not lost.
From what this is saying, it sounds more like the people who created Storybricks didn't depart from SOE/Daybreak, but that they simply gave up on the project and moved onto something else.
(From experience) What you usually have in these situations is a partnership:
SOE will still have the list of ingredients they have worked up and the icing part - they just don't have the oven anymore (from what has been said, they didn't say they still had the tech etc). Building an oven is the bit they have taken in-house.
I think it's more like Storybricks was helping them figure out certain steps in the recipe. My understanding is it was more like consulting work. Which would make sense, as the Storybricks "tech" might have been hard to just drop right into a game. But obviously Storybricks would have a lot of experience and expertize on certain hurdles to overcome developing this type of AI which could have been invaluable to SOE.
Kinda like if you've been baking cakes for a long time and learned a lot of secrets and things I might not know just starting out. You'd save me a lot of time if I paid you to show me what you learned as I worked on baking my own cakes.
From what I understand, it's just really more complex AI for each NPC.
So you'd assign an NPC traits, things like "they like dwarves a lot" or "they really hate dwarves"
Series of if/then, change how the NPC reacted to a dwarf
They would also remember you, could change their responses to you over time, that kind of thing
Apparently also would have their own motivations and goals, so they'd do stuff to advance their goals depending upon their traits etc. so in that sense the NPCs would grow/change along with the player/game, one big feedback loop.
How exactly? Dunno.
It's code - all code = input -> output.
Sounds to me like a LOT of extra database calls for each and every NPC, in a genre where pretty much the entire thing is a series of database calls.
It is disheartening that no one in the industry saw this as worthy of buying. They are all about increasing fidelity to make the next buck. Don't get me wrong, I love my eye candy too. But, the npc's of today are the same npc's of the 90's. Back then it was great since it was a huge leap from table top gaming, but now it's old hat. The AI needs to be improved to take the next leap in game innovation. I don't think SB was the messiah of AI, but it was definitely taking the right path to making games compelling again.
So, on a side note, they wanted to take Smed out of the picture. Smed went to the good ol' boys network and said basically "You frak with the bull, you get the horns". I have to laugh at their attempted aggressive take over. Guess they will think twice before trying to pull that stunt again when it wound up costing them their own company.
The technology isn't that complicated. SOE probably figured out how to do it without the help of Storybricks and saved themselves a ton of money.
Normally every action an NPC takes is scripted. SB let you set more a set of rules with how an NPC interacted with the world. It is a different way to do AI and ends up with the same situations (Player interaction, NPC interaction, Environment) you can have different outcomes without telling the NPCs every step they need to do. This can give a much more dynamic feel. Server to server each can have a totally different story. Its a big part of the sandbox world EQN was shooting for. Does it work? So far awesome in simulations. Real world? We will find out soon as it will be rolled out in Landmark soon, the foundation of the work SB did with EQN devs in house.
I was thinking the same thing.
Storybricks sounds amazing and perhaps that is coloring my perception of what it really is.
Perhaps Storybricks just never made it to the point of a functional product that any company found worth a purchase price?
Even SOE passed on purchasing the company or even hire any of the developers who know the system best.
Very odd.
From what I have snooped on the web they had offers but none they liked. Also the rumor is their lead programmer and brain behind a lot of this had left them just before DGC let them go. I think that may be a large part of what DGC dropped their contract as well. The person that was most important to them had left and why they didnt get any offers they liked.
Sorry, Nan, I think your guess is quite a ways off, particularly concerning the different outcomes. You absolutely need to tell an NPC exactly what step to do. My guess is that the SB AI would make a blind determination of a number of set outcomes using logic similar to that found in The Sims. I would expect that a simplistic example might be:
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Your wrong... what I wrote is from the devs mouth not mine. Thats how it was to work. But up till now we have only seen it in simulations. Its a new way of coding AI.
I think that is a good description - I know what Mendel is saying (talking about the how) but you are talking more about the what imo. That is why I used the simple analogy of ingredients - lots of variables - being baked together to create a cake. A party goes into a clearing, maybe their are mobs in the surrounding bushed, they decide to come out depending on how big the party size is, the weather, the time of day, whether anyone has a shiny shield!, whatever ...
Stuff goes into "a software engine", code does stuff, an answer comes out.
As for it being "easy to do" - in theory just a huge look up table would do .. which has a history stretching back to D&D and table top stuff before that. If it were that simple however .... however it was done then why did SoE work with Storybricks and why isn't this sort of thing in every game? (I suspect its processing power related - some games have very sophisticated AI after all, it does exist.)
As to why it hasn't been bought by another company. My guess:
Yup
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I don't know what to believe anymore.
When I try to look at the situation from an outside perspective, I don't see encouraging signs, all I see are red flags:
Multiple reboots. Squandered resources. Lack of consistent direction -- They really have it all.
To me this has the looks of a project that is begging to be called off. Do they expect me to ignore that when they tell me to trust them, tell me that everything will be OK?
NPC this NPC that.
You keep saying stuff like this about Storybricks and EQ Not!.
Look I know if you went and looked at the Storybricks site there was a lot of that there, but I remember Dave Georgeson et al saying several times that they were not using Storybricks for NPCs they were using it for MOBs only. Do you actually have anything that actually supports the idea the Storybricks was ever going to be used for NPCs in EQ Not!
Or is the just another of your fantasies?
This is exactly what I've heard as well. Daybreak has free reign to continue and implement everything they developed for EQ Next thus far. I'd guess Daybreak has learned quite a bit from Storybricks already. If they were smart, they might consider hiring people from Storybricks. I heard the development team is very small. Doubt it would be an overly expensive proposition. Then again, maybe they're not needed. Maybe Daybreak has access to everything they need already.
NPCs, I'm presuming you're understanding the term, as opposed to "creeps"? NPCs are mobs.
edit: Any mobile/interactable part of the ai, i.e. not scenery or database "loot" are mobs. Quest givers are mobs. A dancing sword can be a mob if you interact with it. Generally, when you say "npc", its to distinguish a "friendly mob", but it's still a mob.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
EQN & Storybricks Video on how they planed to go about using their AI. Probably the most in-depth you'll get until/if we see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gJgZDZdnHc