What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
That is because progression has become the only goal. In the past when we played Everquest many players soloed even though it was inefficient and slow because they enjoyed the challenge and others played in groups and we played for the company and conversations. Fair enough the internet info was not that up to date and every bit of the dungeon mechanic was not on youtube but you still got tips and dry runs with the guild and we had whole weekends devoted to Plane runs that often netted you nothing in fact some of us lost levels. We still felt like we played and had fun. Nowadays if you do not make a level every hour or get better gear you are not enjoying yourself. Whose fault is that ?
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
Wait, what? I have played plenty of pvp mmorpgs that have the standard I desire without quest trackers and handholding and at a pace that is comfortable. The problem is they're all over 10 years old. I just want a new one.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
Wait, what? I have played plenty of pvp mmorpgs that have the standard I desire without quest trackers and handholding and at a pace that is comfortable. The problem is they're all over 10 years old. I just want a new one.
And people couldn't race through content by power AOE grinding them to get to max level first? Name one.
You're focusing on quest trackers and disagreed with the guy who said you can always ignore them because that puts you at a disadvantage for PVP purposes. How is that different than any other scheme that power levels you... or do you not have a problem with those other methods?
And BTW, that whole thing only applies to a brand new game you play at release. Otherwise you're always going to be playing catch-up... so why not just ignore the quest aids in those if that's what you really want to do? You're not going to be first to the top anyway.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
Wait, what? I have played plenty of pvp mmorpgs that have the standard I desire without quest trackers and handholding and at a pace that is comfortable. The problem is they're all over 10 years old. I just want a new one.
And people couldn't race through content by power AOE grinding them to get to max level first? Name one.
You're focusing on quest trackers and disagreed with the guy who said you can always ignore them because that puts you at a disadvantage for PVP purposes. How is that different than any other scheme that power levels you... or do you not have a problem with those other methods?
And BTW, that whole thing only applies to a brand new game you play at release. Otherwise you're always going to be playing catch-up... so why not just ignore the quest aids in those if that's what you really want to do? You're not going to be first to the top anyway.
Well, I play EVE so yea there's one. ( A game so far removed from an "FPS" its laughable)
I have no clue what you're even talking about anymore I"ve already addressed this. I don't have a problem with people who power level. I don't have a problem with people who use Quest trackers. I have a problem with games that use quest trackers. I don't want to purposefully handicap myself to play those games. Solution: I don't play those games. I want a new mmorpg that doesn't use quest trackers but has the quality of a AAA game. That way the playing field is leveled and to a standard I desire.
Now this is just getting tedious to the point of severe annoyance to even reply to you anymore. Please let it go
If people wanted to forego using a website that had the information back then, what's stopping people from not using quest trackers/helpers in-games now? Exactly.
/thread
Except you can't forego using quest trackers as the quest text no longer leads you to where you need to go.
I know I've tried. It used to be in Lord of the Rings online where you could just find your way using quest text but they no longer add that information.
Same with Aion.
Same with SWToR.
If memory serves same with Final Fantasy 14.
And age of Conan now that I think of it. It's actually a lot of games now.
More and more games just tell you of the situation and you run to the glowy bit and then run back. That's a relay race, not a quest. At least to my thinking.
Your memory served you wrong. You absolutely can figure out where to go from quest text in SWToR and FF14, and i'm sure you could do the same with Aion. You just never tried. Clearly you haven't if you think you can't find where to go for quests in FF14.
And this is the problem with people like you and OP of the thread. You act like you can't explore based on the bare minimum that quests give you "talk to 0/4 people in whitebrim front and then report to alphinaud" or pay attention to the npcs giving you the quest when they give you the quest and may let you know "in the meantime i'll be heading over to Gridania while you round up the suspects, so I will meet you there" and chalk it up to 'boohoo we can't do quests without quest trackers/helpers'.
So pathetic. Oh, and you fuckers above me, quit fucking quoting each other without removing old quotes. Each quote is taking up like 1/5th a page now.
If people wanted to forego using a website that had the information back then, what's stopping people from not using quest trackers/helpers in-games now? Exactly.
/thread
Except you can't forego using quest trackers as the quest text no longer leads you to where you need to go.
I know I've tried. It used to be in Lord of the Rings online where you could just find your way using quest text but they no longer add that information.
Same with Aion.
Same with SWToR.
If memory serves same with Final Fantasy 14.
And age of Conan now that I think of it. It's actually a lot of games now.
More and more games just tell you of the situation and you run to the glowy bit and then run back. That's a relay race, not a quest. At least to my thinking.
Your memory served you wrong. You absolutely can figure out where to go from quest text in SWToR and FF14, and i'm sure you could do the same with Aion. You just never tried. Clearly you haven't if you think you can't find where to go for quests in FF14.
And this is the problem with people like you and OP of the thread. You act like you can't explore based on the bare minimum that quests give you "talk to 0/4 people in whitebrim front and then report to alphinaud" or pay attention to the npcs giving you the quest when they give you the quest and may let you know "in the meantime i'll be heading over to Gridania while you round up the suspects, so I will meet you there" and chalk it up to 'boohoo we can't do quests without quest trackers/helpers'.
So pathetic. Oh, and you fuckers above me, quit fucking quoting each other without removing old quotes. Each quote is taking up like 1/5th a page now.
If people wanted to forego using a website that had the information back then, what's stopping people from not using quest trackers/helpers in-games now? Exactly.
/thread
Except you can't forego using quest trackers as the quest text no longer leads you to where you need to go.
I know I've tried. It used to be in Lord of the Rings online where you could just find your way using quest text but they no longer add that information.
Same with Aion.
Same with SWToR.
If memory serves same with Final Fantasy 14.
And age of Conan now that I think of it. It's actually a lot of games now.
More and more games just tell you of the situation and you run to the glowy bit and then run back. That's a relay race, not a quest. At least to my thinking.
Your memory served you wrong. You absolutely can figure out where to go from quest text in SWToR and FF14, and i'm sure you could do the same with Aion. You just never tried. Clearly you haven't if you think you can't find where to go for quests in FF14.
And this is the problem with people like you and OP of the thread. You act like you can't explore based on the bare minimum that quests give you "talk to 0/4 people in whitebrim front and then report to alphinaud" or pay attention to the npcs giving you the quest when they give you the quest and may let you know "in the meantime i'll be heading over to Gridania while you round up the suspects, so I will meet you there" and chalk it up to 'boohoo we can't do quests without quest trackers/helpers'.
So pathetic. Oh, and you fuckers above me, quit fucking quoting each other without removing old quotes. Each quote is taking up like 1/5th a page now.
no
+1
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by cheyane That is because progression has become the only goal. In the past when we played Everquest many players soloed even though it was inefficient and slow because they enjoyed the challenge and others played in groups and we played for the company and conversations. Fair enough the internet info was not that up to date and every bit of the dungeon mechanic was not on youtube but you still got tips and dry runs with the guild and we had whole weekends devoted to Plane runs that often netted you nothing in fact some of us lost levels. We still felt like we played and had fun. Nowadays if you do not make a level every hour or get better gear you are not enjoying yourself. Whose fault is that ?
No, gameplay is the goal.
Gameplay's always been the goal, it's just that MMORPGs briefly (a) forgot all the lessons learned by the game industry over the preceding years, and (b) used a new payment model where making players wait was what drove revenue. And so you had the first genre where large timesinks were the norm.
And if you don't have gameplay (decisions), you should at least provide content (stuff like story.) Quest trackers are just the game's way of helping players skip past the non-gameplay non-content portion of the game to reach the actual game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
it's true! I remember when I first played WoW back before they added the quest tracker or helper or whatever you want to call it. It actually required you to read the text. god forbid you actually have to read something in a mmorpg and do a little detective work. it's a role playing game, thats the reason you're playing it, is for the exploration and discovery and lore.
Speak for yourself and turn of quest helper. I'm not reading a novel every time I have to kill 10 pigs. I hate questing and wasted too much time searching sites.
Many (I'd daresay most, sadly) players are "brain lazy" and unable or unwilling to follow simple directions.
The only problem of those quest helpers is that they are forced on your. You can't turn them off because nowadays, quest texts are written with those helpers in mind.
Quest text in 2004:
"Go to the NW between the two hills, and you'll find the lair of the mighty lion".
Quest text in 2014:
"Go to the lair of the mighty lion". - the place is marked on your map.
Sad, but inevitable. You can thank the new, lazy, "hand it all to me for free" generation. Makes me even more proud to have been young and discovered computers and gaming in the 70s and 80s and not now.
Dang, another good example is mobile games. On the google play store, you regularly have such comments for games that are worth $2 or less:
"Very nice game, but too expensive".
Seriously?
Well can't I just hire and NPC to do this quest for me!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Many (I'd daresay most, sadly) players are "brain lazy" and unable or unwilling to follow simple directions.
The only problem of those quest helpers is that they are forced on your. You can't turn them off because nowadays, quest texts are written with those helpers in mind.
Quest text in 2004:
"Go to the NW between the two hills, and you'll find the lair of the mighty lion".
Quest text in 2014:
"Go to the lair of the mighty lion". - the place is marked on your map.
Sad, but inevitable. You can thank the new, lazy, "hand it all to me for free" generation. Makes me even more proud to have been young and discovered computers and gaming in the 70s and 80s and not now.
Dang, another good example is mobile games. On the google play store, you regularly have such comments for games that are worth $2 or less:
"Very nice game, but too expensive".
Seriously?
Well can't I just hire and NPC to do this quest for me!
The community stinks right now.
If 99 of 100 people in that game are stinky, then stinky is the new norm, and you are the odd one out.
Accept it, buy some nose clips and carry on playing, or look for a game that is actually targeted at people with super sensitive noses.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
What forces you to use instant teleport? cant you go by foot?
Play the way you like it, if the mmo dont allow that, then is time to change and look for something that fits your play style.
Isnt that simple?
I hate this line of reasoning. I don't think its that simple. When others are gifted that knowledge and you yourself handicap yourself in order to bring up your immersion but then you are slowed down compared to everyone else and you fall behind on purpose whereas everyone is steaming along with those freebie xp boosts from give me quests. I think its horseshit. The playing field is either level or its not. Now, some people ask well so what who cares if people steam past you while you're enjoying your game more. Well, i'm not then because i play games that are extremely pvp competitive and people having an advantage over someone else like that is just not acceptable to me. Now if people enjoy playing those games with quest trackers and such that's fine I don't wnat to take that away from anyone....but I would just love a game that does offer me the experience that I desire also hopefully in the next 10 years because the last 10 years have been absolute trash.
If you have to grind quests to be competitive in PvP solution is quite simple - dont play that game because it sucks ;P
Or better yet, he should play the no story, no leveling FPS games. So many FPS players pretending to like MMOs... I don't get it.
Are you seriously implying that im an FPS gamer and don't deserve to play MMORPGS? I've been playing mmorpgs since 1998 man I mean wtf do i need to do to get approval like it matters from you the all mighty judge on the matter?
You're describing a race to the end playstyle for competitve PVP purposes and saying that you don't want to slow down because that puts you at a disadvantage and you call that horseshit... sounds like an FPS player to me.
You can play whatever the hell you want to play but of you're criticizing MMORPGs for being MMORPGs, well yeah the shoe fits.
What are you talking about? I never said it was a race. I just want a level playing field for everyone where I don't have to singly handicap myself. I was misquoted. I am not an FPS player.
Sorry, not racing, "steaming"
How is saying OTHER people steam through content the same as saying "I" think that is how it should be played!??
Well, how do you maintain your competitive edge against them then? You're essentially saying you're a highly competitive PVPer first... so how do you play those games where playing the MMORPG the way it's designed to be played puts you at a disadvantage if PVP is what you care about and you want to be competitive?
You have played MMORPGs like that in the past haven't you? So how did you play them?
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
Oh come on now.
GW2, you can jump right into sPvP the moment you log in the game and you can level reasonably in WWW.
Not every game makes you grind PvE just to be competitve in PvP
And where and who wrote in the stone you have to grind <insert w/e> to be competitve in PvP in MMO? Thats just one of nonsensical things in MMOs.
Even before quest helpers and trackers were in-game, do you know what we had? Allakhazam.com/game.
They may be bloating the UI in some games, but they are by no means ruining mmorpgs. Anyone who says so are being idiotic and clearly never played the old mmorpgs like Everquest and FFXI because everything had a detailed walkthrough complete with coordinates/directions/pictures an alt tab away. The only thing that changed is we no longer have to alt tab half as much anymore.
If people wanted to forego using a website that had the information back then, what's stopping people from not using quest trackers/helpers in-games now? Exactly.
/thread
I don't see what more can be said. People used websites to find info on quests back in the days where they were not trackers, now they just use the in-game tracker.
I am thinking those people who want them removed just want to FORCE their playstyle on the rest of the players who enjoy using trackers.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Standard "quest" in an MMORPG game does not offer much gameplay. Gameplay is making decisions and in an MMORPG quest you usually don't make any decisions.
Since when is gameplay defined as "making decisions". That makes like 0 sense. Making decisions is part of a game's gameplay but it's not all there is to gameplay ...
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
The fact that 99 times out of 100, the quest text isn't written in such a way as to lead you to the goal. All these games build the UI to show you where to go, so the writers don't bother to put any of that information into the text. So players are forced to use the UI to find the quest goal, or look it up.
I remember the old days, playing games like Bard's Tale, and writing down every clue I found in a notebook and trying to figure out all the different puzzles. TSW is the only game that does anything like that. There's entirely too much hand holding in MMOs today. Make people figure out where to go, or better yet, stop wasting valuable time and resources on one-and-done content. Most games create hundreds of quests, many of which will be skipped entirely, or progressed through as quickly as possible and never done again.
Game companies need to focus on repeatable content, and that doesn't mean gear grinding in raids or daily quests or faction grinds. It means content that is different every time you play it. That means that AI needs to be improved, a lot. Enough with the scripted fights.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
The fact that 99 times out of 100, the quest text isn't written in such a way as to lead you to the goal. All these games build the UI to show you where to go, so the writers don't bother to put any of that information into the text. So players are forced to use the UI to find the quest goal, or look it up.
I remember the old days, playing games like Bard's Tale, and writing down every clue I found in a notebook and trying to figure out all the different puzzles. TSW is the only game that does anything like that. There's entirely too much hand holding in MMOs today. Make people figure out where to go, or better yet, stop wasting valuable time and resources on one-and-done content. Most games create hundreds of quests, many of which will be skipped entirely, or progressed through as quickly as possible and never done again.
Game companies need to focus on repeatable content, and that doesn't mean gear grinding in raids or daily quests or faction grinds. It means content that is different every time you play it. That means that AI needs to be improved, a lot. Enough with the scripted fights.
That still doesnt prevent you to ignore quest tracker.
On the contrary, these people claim that geting no clues and wandering randomly around in hoping to stumble on what they need is next best thing after sliced bread.
GW2 wnet furthes on repeatable content and even zones that you visit after a while feel fresh as theres so much going on in every zone that yo probably missed a lot of it last time around.
Of course, that would also imply that you actually want to go around and explore, and find things on your own, buuuut....yeah.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
The fact that 99 times out of 100, the quest text isn't written in such a way as to lead you to the goal. All these games build the UI to show you where to go, so the writers don't bother to put any of that information into the text. So players are forced to use the UI to find the quest goal, or look it up.
I remember the old days, playing games like Bard's Tale, and writing down every clue I found in a notebook and trying to figure out all the different puzzles. TSW is the only game that does anything like that. There's entirely too much hand holding in MMOs today. Make people figure out where to go, or better yet, stop wasting valuable time and resources on one-and-done content. Most games create hundreds of quests, many of which will be skipped entirely, or progressed through as quickly as possible and never done again.
Game companies need to focus on repeatable content, and that doesn't mean gear grinding in raids or daily quests or faction grinds. It means content that is different every time you play it. That means that AI needs to be improved, a lot. Enough with the scripted fights.
That still doesnt prevent you to ignore quest tracker.
On the contrary, these people claim that geting no clues and wandering randomly around in hoping to stumble on what they need is next best thing after sliced bread.
GW2 wnet furthes on repeatable content and even zones that you visit after a while feel fresh as theres so much going on in every zone that yo probably missed a lot of it last time around.
Of course, that would also imply that you actually want to go around and explore, and find things on your own, buuuut....yeah.
Basically what you say makes no sense, but cost you nothing to say.
The games are designed to only be combat oriented. The exploration has mostly be removed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more games where there is no outside world. People just jump in, kill, and loot. WoW seems to be getting closer and closer to this.
Part of the point of exploration is that you are going somewhere unknown. Somewhere you have never been and don't have any guide like Lewis and Clark traveling across western America.
What prevents you of reading the quest test, ignore helpers and find things by your own?
The fact that 99 times out of 100, the quest text isn't written in such a way as to lead you to the goal. All these games build the UI to show you where to go, so the writers don't bother to put any of that information into the text. So players are forced to use the UI to find the quest goal, or look it up.
I remember the old days, playing games like Bard's Tale, and writing down every clue I found in a notebook and trying to figure out all the different puzzles. TSW is the only game that does anything like that. There's entirely too much hand holding in MMOs today. Make people figure out where to go, or better yet, stop wasting valuable time and resources on one-and-done content. Most games create hundreds of quests, many of which will be skipped entirely, or progressed through as quickly as possible and never done again.
Game companies need to focus on repeatable content, and that doesn't mean gear grinding in raids or daily quests or faction grinds. It means content that is different every time you play it. That means that AI needs to be improved, a lot. Enough with the scripted fights.
That still doesnt prevent you to ignore quest tracker.
On the contrary, these people claim that geting no clues and wandering randomly around in hoping to stumble on what they need is next best thing after sliced bread.
GW2 wnet furthes on repeatable content and even zones that you visit after a while feel fresh as theres so much going on in every zone that yo probably missed a lot of it last time around.
Of course, that would also imply that you actually want to go around and explore, and find things on your own, buuuut....yeah.
Basically what you say makes no sense, but cost you nothing to say.
The games are designed to only be combat oriented. The exploration has mostly be removed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more games where there is no outside world. People just jump in, kill, and loot. WoW seems to be getting closer and closer to this.
Part of the point of exploration is that you are going somewhere unknown. Somewhere you have never been and don't have any guide like Lewis and Clark traveling across western America.
Lol, just go back and look at those "old school" quests.
Ive been saying for quite a while now, 5+ years that WoW is lobby game
But trend is slowly shifting and GW2 is focuse completely on open world, including exploration.
And imo, that will continue to be the trend. ESO already took flack for trying to heard everyone to raiding.
ESO tried to herd people towards raiding ? Wasn't that Wildstar ? They did get punished it seems from their low player base. I also think 40 was a pretty large number they should have tried 15 also the mad coloured telegraphs and healing was quite a nightmare in that game.
I have always wondered what research they did that lead them to the decision to make such combat telegraphs and raiding choices. The action combat by itself was fine I would have managed it fine but the crazy different types of telegraphs and trying to aim your heals ,in this respect ESO has done a better job where you have action combat without the nasty healing problem. I love playing healers so I gave up on Wildstar fast although I did like the game.
I think games like Everquest where quests were few and far in between and you had to pick the right conversation words to get the NPC to respond was really something that today's generation will balk at. Even when I played it I did check the internet because I wanted to do some quests and wanted to know how to do them......
Originally posted by stayontarget And yet even with all the quest helpers and trackers, chat is still flooded with quest questions
Oh yeah. I feel its safe to say the majority of MMO players would throw a hissy fit if a game removed quest trackers and map markers.
Anyone here around for the Secret World launch? Interesting quests and puzzles to work out for yourself, with the tools in game to do so yet so many people just opted for asking for the answer in general chat. Its seems thinking for one's self is quickly becoming a thing of the past in our convenience based society.
On one hand I find it sad we may be birthing a generation of lazy dullards, but on the other, as Machiavelli said "In the country of the blind, the one eyed man is king." I'm sure someone out there is delighted by this wave of apathy.
What games are you people playing that chat is filled with questions and trackers are still in use? I don't see that happening in FFXIV or GW2.
Comments
I maintain my competitive edge by not handicapping myself. I do that by NOT playing the games that have quest trackers and that trash in it anyways. I usually don't play games with full themepark style quests at all.
Hence, why in my original post that was misquoted and cut off I said I do NOT want those games that are like that now to change if people enjoy them and like them. Instead, I want a new game that has the standard I desire. I ask, what is wrong with that? What's the problem exactly?
For me? It's not a problem at all. For you? You're severely limiting yourself since I'm not aware of a single PVP MMORPG where dedicated PVPers who want to get there first can't race or steam through content to do so.
In FPS games, OTOH, that is not an issue...hence my FPS comment.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Wait, what? I have played plenty of pvp mmorpgs that have the standard I desire without quest trackers and handholding and at a pace that is comfortable. The problem is they're all over 10 years old. I just want a new one.
And people couldn't race through content by power AOE grinding them to get to max level first? Name one.
You're focusing on quest trackers and disagreed with the guy who said you can always ignore them because that puts you at a disadvantage for PVP purposes. How is that different than any other scheme that power levels you... or do you not have a problem with those other methods?
And BTW, that whole thing only applies to a brand new game you play at release. Otherwise you're always going to be playing catch-up... so why not just ignore the quest aids in those if that's what you really want to do? You're not going to be first to the top anyway.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Well, I play EVE so yea there's one. ( A game so far removed from an "FPS" its laughable)
I have no clue what you're even talking about anymore I"ve already addressed this. I don't have a problem with people who power level. I don't have a problem with people who use Quest trackers. I have a problem with games that use quest trackers. I don't want to purposefully handicap myself to play those games. Solution: I don't play those games. I want a new mmorpg that doesn't use quest trackers but has the quality of a AAA game. That way the playing field is leveled and to a standard I desire.
Now this is just getting tedious to the point of severe annoyance to even reply to you anymore. Please let it go
Your memory served you wrong. You absolutely can figure out where to go from quest text in SWToR and FF14, and i'm sure you could do the same with Aion. You just never tried. Clearly you haven't if you think you can't find where to go for quests in FF14.
And this is the problem with people like you and OP of the thread. You act like you can't explore based on the bare minimum that quests give you "talk to 0/4 people in whitebrim front and then report to alphinaud" or pay attention to the npcs giving you the quest when they give you the quest and may let you know "in the meantime i'll be heading over to Gridania while you round up the suspects, so I will meet you there" and chalk it up to 'boohoo we can't do quests without quest trackers/helpers'.
So pathetic. Oh, and you fuckers above me, quit fucking quoting each other without removing old quotes. Each quote is taking up like 1/5th a page now.
no
+1
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No, gameplay is the goal.
Gameplay's always been the goal, it's just that MMORPGs briefly (a) forgot all the lessons learned by the game industry over the preceding years, and (b) used a new payment model where making players wait was what drove revenue. And so you had the first genre where large timesinks were the norm.
And if you don't have gameplay (decisions), you should at least provide content (stuff like story.) Quest trackers are just the game's way of helping players skip past the non-gameplay non-content portion of the game to reach the actual game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Speak for yourself and turn of quest helper. I'm not reading a novel every time I have to kill 10 pigs. I hate questing and wasted too much time searching sites.
Well can't I just hire and NPC to do this quest for me!
The community stinks right now.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If 99 of 100 people in that game are stinky, then stinky is the new norm, and you are the odd one out.
Accept it, buy some nose clips and carry on playing, or look for a game that is actually targeted at people with super sensitive noses.
Oh come on now.
GW2, you can jump right into sPvP the moment you log in the game and you can level reasonably in WWW.
Not every game makes you grind PvE just to be competitve in PvP
And where and who wrote in the stone you have to grind <insert w/e> to be competitve in PvP in MMO? Thats just one of nonsensical things in MMOs.
I don't see what more can be said. People used websites to find info on quests back in the days where they were not trackers, now they just use the in-game tracker.
I am thinking those people who want them removed just want to FORCE their playstyle on the rest of the players who enjoy using trackers.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Since when is gameplay defined as "making decisions". That makes like 0 sense. Making decisions is part of a game's gameplay but it's not all there is to gameplay ...
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
The fact that 99 times out of 100, the quest text isn't written in such a way as to lead you to the goal. All these games build the UI to show you where to go, so the writers don't bother to put any of that information into the text. So players are forced to use the UI to find the quest goal, or look it up.
I remember the old days, playing games like Bard's Tale, and writing down every clue I found in a notebook and trying to figure out all the different puzzles. TSW is the only game that does anything like that. There's entirely too much hand holding in MMOs today. Make people figure out where to go, or better yet, stop wasting valuable time and resources on one-and-done content. Most games create hundreds of quests, many of which will be skipped entirely, or progressed through as quickly as possible and never done again.
Game companies need to focus on repeatable content, and that doesn't mean gear grinding in raids or daily quests or faction grinds. It means content that is different every time you play it. That means that AI needs to be improved, a lot. Enough with the scripted fights.
That still doesnt prevent you to ignore quest tracker.
On the contrary, these people claim that geting no clues and wandering randomly around in hoping to stumble on what they need is next best thing after sliced bread.
GW2 wnet furthes on repeatable content and even zones that you visit after a while feel fresh as theres so much going on in every zone that yo probably missed a lot of it last time around.
Of course, that would also imply that you actually want to go around and explore, and find things on your own, buuuut....yeah.
Basically what you say makes no sense, but cost you nothing to say.
The games are designed to only be combat oriented. The exploration has mostly be removed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more games where there is no outside world. People just jump in, kill, and loot. WoW seems to be getting closer and closer to this.
Part of the point of exploration is that you are going somewhere unknown. Somewhere you have never been and don't have any guide like Lewis and Clark traveling across western America.
Lol, just go back and look at those "old school" quests.
Ive been saying for quite a while now, 5+ years that WoW is lobby game
But trend is slowly shifting and GW2 is focuse completely on open world, including exploration.
And imo, that will continue to be the trend. ESO already took flack for trying to heard everyone to raiding.
ESO tried to herd people towards raiding ? Wasn't that Wildstar ? They did get punished it seems from their low player base. I also think 40 was a pretty large number they should have tried 15 also the mad coloured telegraphs and healing was quite a nightmare in that game.
I have always wondered what research they did that lead them to the decision to make such combat telegraphs and raiding choices. The action combat by itself was fine I would have managed it fine but the crazy different types of telegraphs and trying to aim your heals ,in this respect ESO has done a better job where you have action combat without the nasty healing problem. I love playing healers so I gave up on Wildstar fast although I did like the game.
I think games like Everquest where quests were few and far in between and you had to pick the right conversation words to get the NPC to respond was really something that today's generation will balk at. Even when I played it I did check the internet because I wanted to do some quests and wanted to know how to do them......
What games are you people playing that chat is filled with questions and trackers are still in use? I don't see that happening in FFXIV or GW2.