So my question is do you think the MMO genre is dying or is it just a sheer lack of innovation that has permeated the market that has made it seem like there is no hope for this genre?
I personally think gamer's are really starved for a new quality MMO and most of the crap we got the last few years has really not been able to deliver.
To answer your questions. No I don't feel the MMO genre is dying, as many have said it's bigger then ever.
Is the genre evolving the way I wanted then the answer is no it has not, how ever the genre evolved never the less just in a different direction then I hoped.
There are plenty of high prodution MMO's out there. Do they suite what I want, most don't but since those games are enjoyed by allot of other gamers to me it's what counts and that doesn't dismiss they are of high quality value.
And I still can find my own niche even in many themepark-ish game. Still have my own wishes.
OP What IS a Quality MMO?
Of course I could explain my own idea's but I already know for a fact that I am a minority in my needs and want in this genre. Though I do believe there is plenty of room in this genre to expand or go beyond what is delivered today. But it doesn't mean some of today's MMO's aren't off quality because they are.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think the popularity of Vanguard has been overstated. It was not doing well even before SOE took over. What makes you think it's fixable and if they could not even sell SOE for sometime based on what Storybricks Team indicated as they said SOE was on the block for awhile what makes you think anyone would buy a buggy mess that was Vanguard.
I like the game and I played it for awhile but in the end the bugs drove me out. I won't play a game like that in fact I refused to play ESO until they fixed it and now I'm playing it and it is a much better experience for me thanks to my patience. If they could have sold Vanguard or if there was a real interest in it Sony would have sold it since they were looking for ways to reduce the loss SOE was incurring. What evidence do you have that SOE refused to sell Vanguard ?
I think the majority of what developers and publishers consider "gamers" think MMOs are lame, or don't even know they exist. I'd say "gamers" want the next Call of Duty, and the next Battlefield...And that 's about it. Oh and they want to scream in their headsets that they'll defile your eyesocket and rape your mom at night!
So I don't think "gamers" are starved for an MMO, and I don't see many MMOs on the horizon being made by Western developers. We, as in people who play MMOs, aren't the hip and new market they are aiming for.
Plus I've got WoW, GW2, and Neverwinter Nights 2 to play :V
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis--- NZXT Phantom 410 Case Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0 Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
Well it depends on what you are talking about. An MMO or MMORPG ? I don't know because you list games that classify themselves as MMORPG's, but have little to no RPG influence and 90% of the content is made for solo play. The majority of MMO's today fall into this catagory of solo player games connected to other players.
Most people simply have never experienced a real MMORPG experience so they don't understand what they are missing. If you're looking for that experience I highly suggest looking into Pantheon and giving it a fair shake when it releases. Outside of that Star Citizen looks to be a solid title but who knows if it will be a true MMORPG experience or if its simply a space sim you can play with other people. The rest of the games in development are hype train gimmicks that will die out like the 200 titles that came before them.
There are a whole lot of copycat games on the market that makes you feel when you play one, you played them all. Innovation and creativity becomes harder and harder. It was kind of easy to be innovative, 20 years ago when a dozen of games were on the market.
When SWG came out, everyone was in awe, even if it was really buggy, we didnt care. Now ESO comes out with way less bugs and complains follow by the thousands.
There is a few really great game out there, but the players have now changed. They expect much more and always wants to be surprised and busy. Keep me busy, away from boredom, surprises me and keep me challenged and I will stick to you. If you fail in doing so, then I will naturally look for other games.
Now, I really dont think mmo are dying. They will be there for a very long time and certainly evolve. In fact, if the world keeps on spinning without a nuclear war, I think we are heading for future mmo looking really close to the movie "the matrix."
It always comes back to the question on what you think a quality game means. I think most people view a game that they don't like as having poor quality. To me, poor quality relates more to the game itself, graphics, glitches, customization, world features, ui, etc. As an example, I like GW2 and I think it has good quality. I don't like WoW, and I think it has good quality. To me the liking of a game is completely different than the quality of a game.
It's lack of innovation, and even a certain level of regression infusing all games released in the last 5 years. Single player RPG's are actually offering MORE than MMO's currently.
Originally posted by Kyleran Well I'm not starved, I'm playing a quality MMORPG, so no real worries here.
Plus I think people need to think about games that are good enough rather that perfect for some large list of things to have/avoid. Just play games!
Yeah, that's how I look at it these days, play something that has many good qualities and not rage against the machine as it were because I don't care for most others.
Is it perfect, not at all, but until something comes along better, it will certainly keep me entertained.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think people put far too much emphasis on innovation as the saving grace of games and genres. It is so much more complicated than that. There is no silver bullet solution.
So I have checked out a few indie MMOs over the last few weeks and despite their lackluster graphics they have some interesting game mechanics. I have been playing Shroud of the Avartar and Pathfinder online and having a lot fun so far, both offer a lot of promise if you can get past their dated graphics.
Yes, but I'm resigned to not even having one to even consider playing until CAMELOT UNCHAINED is launched.
-----------------------------------
I just un-subbed AGAIN from DAOC because it's total re-stage was just going far to slow. Prior to that I wasted almost a year on ESO that promised to be the successor to DAOC and flat out never could achieve a stable,low lag AVA platform or any new AVA feature development.
So I've decided to focus on upgrading my home and dreaming of the upcoming college football season.
Originally posted by Vorthanion I think people put far too much emphasis on innovation as the saving grace of games and genres. It is so much more complicated than that. There is no silver bullet solution.
Stagnation.
Lack of innovation.
WoW clone with different skin and "twist" aint gonna make it.
But, after all the wow clone failures, my guess it wow clone era is behind us and it will be much more focus on innovation
I would not say MMO's are dying at all,there is just an easier careless spending mode among consumers.
Crave a quality game?Well it does have a two part answer.
1 To those who want a certain type game>>>Grouping,no hand holding,big time in need of that CHOICE.
2 There is already a thousand of the other choice,so for those who accept that type of design,they do not need another game and they could find a new one to play everyday.
Overall we are in big need of CREATIVITY,a DIFFERENT choice than solo linear questing.The various genres within the MMO category do not even change up the CHOICE,they are still based on soloing and likely quest/missions whatever you want to call them.
So game design has become basically cookie cutter game designs and ALL of them are aiming for the cheapest way to pull it off.
Can you get any cheaper than going early access and selling an big time unfinished product?Well i guess if you go crowd funding and use gamer's money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What I think has changed dramatically is that today's MMO's seem to be built around the monetization method. Some games even have their cash shop working before the game even releases. They take the tried-and-true mechanics that all people expect in MMO's, like crafting, leveling, gear, etc, and seemingly put most of their design effort into how to maximize the monetization of them.
This is also evident in the release mechanisms. When I bought DAOC it came on a CD. It was finished. Expansions also came on a CD. Today's MMO's try to charge players for un-releasable alpha builds that would never have seen the light of day back in the early years. Years after buying a Founder's pack and paying for alpha access today's games finally settle down to a release state. Most people have moved on by then.
So instead of trying to release a full-featured game, today's developers try to release as little as possible, and charge as much as possible, as soon as possible.
What I think has changed dramatically is that today's MMO's seem to be built around the monetization method. Some games even have their cash shop working before the game even releases. They take the tried-and-true mechanics that all people expect in MMO's, like crafting, leveling, gear, etc, and seemingly put most of their design effort into how to maximize the monetization of them.
This is also evident in the release mechanisms. When I bought DAOC it came on a CD. It was finished. Expansions also came on a CD. Today's MMO's try to charge players for un-releasable alpha builds that would never have seen the light of day back in the early years. Years after buying a Founder's pack and paying for alpha access today's games finally settle down to a release state. Most people have moved on by then.
So instead of trying to release a full-featured game, today's developers try to release as little as possible, and charge as much as possible, as soon as possible.
Well, old school games were much more primitive/obvious about their monetization - pay for timesinks.
And were also built around their monetization method.
Comments
To answer your questions. No I don't feel the MMO genre is dying, as many have said it's bigger then ever.
Is the genre evolving the way I wanted then the answer is no it has not, how ever the genre evolved never the less just in a different direction then I hoped.
There are plenty of high prodution MMO's out there. Do they suite what I want, most don't but since those games are enjoyed by allot of other gamers to me it's what counts and that doesn't dismiss they are of high quality value.
And I still can find my own niche even in many themepark-ish game. Still have my own wishes.
OP What IS a Quality MMO?
Of course I could explain my own idea's but I already know for a fact that I am a minority in my needs and want in this genre. Though I do believe there is plenty of room in this genre to expand or go beyond what is delivered today. But it doesn't mean some of today's MMO's aren't off quality because they are.
Plus I think people need to think about games that are good enough rather that perfect for some large list of things to have/avoid. Just play games!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I think the popularity of Vanguard has been overstated. It was not doing well even before SOE took over. What makes you think it's fixable and if they could not even sell SOE for sometime based on what Storybricks Team indicated as they said SOE was on the block for awhile what makes you think anyone would buy a buggy mess that was Vanguard.
I like the game and I played it for awhile but in the end the bugs drove me out. I won't play a game like that in fact I refused to play ESO until they fixed it and now I'm playing it and it is a much better experience for me thanks to my patience. If they could have sold Vanguard or if there was a real interest in it Sony would have sold it since they were looking for ways to reduce the loss SOE was incurring. What evidence do you have that SOE refused to sell Vanguard ?
No....
I think the majority of what developers and publishers consider "gamers" think MMOs are lame, or don't even know they exist. I'd say "gamers" want the next Call of Duty, and the next Battlefield...And that 's about it. Oh and they want to scream in their headsets that they'll defile your eyesocket and rape your mom at night!
So I don't think "gamers" are starved for an MMO, and I don't see many MMOs on the horizon being made by Western developers. We, as in people who play MMOs, aren't the hip and new market they are aiming for.
Plus I've got WoW, GW2, and Neverwinter Nights 2 to play :V
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
NZXT Phantom 410 Case
Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
Well it depends on what you are talking about. An MMO or MMORPG ? I don't know because you list games that classify themselves as MMORPG's, but have little to no RPG influence and 90% of the content is made for solo play. The majority of MMO's today fall into this catagory of solo player games connected to other players.
Most people simply have never experienced a real MMORPG experience so they don't understand what they are missing. If you're looking for that experience I highly suggest looking into Pantheon and giving it a fair shake when it releases. Outside of that Star Citizen looks to be a solid title but who knows if it will be a true MMORPG experience or if its simply a space sim you can play with other people. The rest of the games in development are hype train gimmicks that will die out like the 200 titles that came before them.
There are a whole lot of copycat games on the market that makes you feel when you play one, you played them all. Innovation and creativity becomes harder and harder. It was kind of easy to be innovative, 20 years ago when a dozen of games were on the market.
When SWG came out, everyone was in awe, even if it was really buggy, we didnt care. Now ESO comes out with way less bugs and complains follow by the thousands.
There is a few really great game out there, but the players have now changed. They expect much more and always wants to be surprised and busy. Keep me busy, away from boredom, surprises me and keep me challenged and I will stick to you. If you fail in doing so, then I will naturally look for other games.
Now, I really dont think mmo are dying. They will be there for a very long time and certainly evolve. In fact, if the world keeps on spinning without a nuclear war, I think we are heading for future mmo looking really close to the movie "the matrix."
I self identify as a monkey.
Yeah, that's how I look at it these days, play something that has many good qualities and not rage against the machine as it were because I don't care for most others.
Is it perfect, not at all, but until something comes along better, it will certainly keep me entertained.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Am I " starved for a quality MMO" ?
Yes, but I'm resigned to not even having one to even consider playing until CAMELOT UNCHAINED is launched.
-----------------------------------
I just un-subbed AGAIN from DAOC because it's total re-stage was just going far to slow. Prior to that I wasted almost a year on ESO that promised to be the successor to DAOC and flat out never could achieve a stable,low lag AVA platform or any new AVA feature development.
So I've decided to focus on upgrading my home and dreaming of the upcoming college football season.
Stagnation.
Lack of innovation.
WoW clone with different skin and "twist" aint gonna make it.
But, after all the wow clone failures, my guess it wow clone era is behind us and it will be much more focus on innovation
I would not say MMO's are dying at all,there is just an easier careless spending mode among consumers.
Crave a quality game?Well it does have a two part answer.
1 To those who want a certain type game>>>Grouping,no hand holding,big time in need of that CHOICE.
2 There is already a thousand of the other choice,so for those who accept that type of design,they do not need another game and they could find a new one to play everyday.
Overall we are in big need of CREATIVITY,a DIFFERENT choice than solo linear questing.The various genres within the MMO category do not even change up the CHOICE,they are still based on soloing and likely quest/missions whatever you want to call them.
So game design has become basically cookie cutter game designs and ALL of them are aiming for the cheapest way to pull it off.
Can you get any cheaper than going early access and selling an big time unfinished product?Well i guess if you go crowd funding and use gamer's money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What I think has changed dramatically is that today's MMO's seem to be built around the monetization method. Some games even have their cash shop working before the game even releases. They take the tried-and-true mechanics that all people expect in MMO's, like crafting, leveling, gear, etc, and seemingly put most of their design effort into how to maximize the monetization of them.
This is also evident in the release mechanisms. When I bought DAOC it came on a CD. It was finished. Expansions also came on a CD. Today's MMO's try to charge players for un-releasable alpha builds that would never have seen the light of day back in the early years. Years after buying a Founder's pack and paying for alpha access today's games finally settle down to a release state. Most people have moved on by then.
So instead of trying to release a full-featured game, today's developers try to release as little as possible, and charge as much as possible, as soon as possible.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Well, old school games were much more primitive/obvious about their monetization - pay for timesinks.
And were also built around their monetization method.