Originally posted by Torcip How could that guy have played that much? That's more then two full time jobs.
What we are seeing is possibly an account that is kept running 24/7, for farming purposes.
16,791 total hours played / 4 years played = 4197.75 hours / year.
4197.75 hours / year / 52 weeks / year = 80.72561 hours / week.
I suspect a two man crew, each working 40 hours a week. Refreshing to put a tag with all that farming.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
"40 Souls | 480 Combinations | Nearly Infinite Builds | 5 Of Which Won't Get You Kicked From A Raid"
Ok, so maybe it's a couple more than 5, but still. This was the biggest selling point of the game, and also one of it's biggest failures. When this game launched, I made builds that were fun as hell. Deathknight-like builds, Warlock-like builds, Other builds I just messed with. I leveled a mage as a Chlor/Necro/Lock. Awesome leveling+ Farming+ Solo build and I loved the playstyle. Too bad it has no place in the end-game. And if I wanted to continue as a Mage, I needed to spec as a Pyro mage.
WTF is that? If that's what I wanted, that is what I would have made. So I get to level up as a "Warlock" only to discover If I want progress, I need to become a glass cannon?
PFFT
If you want to play with the big boys you have to be the best. Don't like it, go solo.
That is the exact problem with games like this. People get hung up on a specific character design. Your big boys are all idiots and don't want a challenge, why even bother to play it?
"40 Souls | 480 Combinations | Nearly Infinite Builds | 5 Of Which Won't Get You Kicked From A Raid"
Ok, so maybe it's a couple more than 5, but still. This was the biggest selling point of the game, and also one of it's biggest failures. When this game launched, I made builds that were fun as hell. Deathknight-like builds, Warlock-like builds, Other builds I just messed with. I leveled a mage as a Chlor/Necro/Lock. Awesome leveling+ Farming+ Solo build and I loved the playstyle. Too bad it has no place in the end-game. And if I wanted to continue as a Mage, I needed to spec as a Pyro mage.
WTF is that? If that's what I wanted, that is what I would have made. So I get to level up as a "Warlock" only to discover If I want progress, I need to become a glass cannon?
PFFT
If you want to play with the big boys you have to be the best. Don't like it, go solo.
That is the exact problem with games like this. People get hung up on a specific character design. Your big boys are all idiots and don't want a challenge, why even bother to play it?
Not entirely sure what you're on about.
Just as a point of reference, i quit playing Rift about 2 years ago, so no idea how it is now.
That being said, i've "end game" raided in EQ, WOW, Rift, and a multitude of other games, Rift had far and away the most fun and the most challenging raids ive encounter, that includes group content as well. In particular Akylios was a lot of fun. Regardless, not sure if im wasting my time or not by trying to explain things, because the general concensus amongst non raiders is that raiders only raid so they can lord their phat lewtz over the casual peasents, which couldnt be further from the truth, but, whatever. /shrug.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
rift strongest feature the so called soul system is also its biggest weakness imo..
i wanted to play as necromancer mage,,but it is not viable in raid and pvp..there are certain builds which you have to follow or get kicked out of raid and even dungeon for that matter.
same story for pvp..go with certain build or get destroyed by other palyers.
what was the point of having 9 souls for each calling again??
they might as well remove some of them like mage elementalist soul which is totally useless now.
That in any mmo with the player base wants the best of the best spec, if one class is under power in top endgame guild if they see it worthless then you have to follow there rules pick the best spec and run it even if don't you want to play that way, thats how in general mmo are.
Did that guy actually compare raiding in rift to being a professional football player? What a knob. When you make your millions playing rift, you be sure to let me know, Sport. Also, bashing people who simply stated why they stopped playing a game that he himself hasnt played in two years just = troll.
"40 Souls | 480 Combinations | Nearly Infinite Builds | 5 Of Which Won't Get You Kicked From A Raid"
Ok, so maybe it's a couple more than 5, but still. This was the biggest selling point of the game, and also one of it's biggest failures. When this game launched, I made builds that were fun as hell. Deathknight-like builds, Warlock-like builds, Other builds I just messed with. I leveled a mage as a Chlor/Necro/Lock. Awesome leveling+ Farming+ Solo build and I loved the playstyle. Too bad it has no place in the end-game. And if I wanted to continue as a Mage, I needed to spec as a Pyro mage.
WTF is that? If that's what I wanted, that is what I would have made. So I get to level up as a "Warlock" only to discover If I want progress, I need to become a glass cannon?
PFFT
My exact complaint. Trion went with nerfing builds that were spread out over various trees that did "unusual" things and basically encouraged the cookie-cutterification of specs. They should have gone with more horizontal expansion and nerfed the cookie-cutter builds instead giving players more customization - that was the strength of their game. That's why they lost me as a player. Taking the one thing you do better and different than other games and then ruining it. GJ.
They decided balancing near infinite combinations of builds was near impossible, so they nerfed everything that did not go a full 60 into one soul. Much easier to balance around.
As for build diversity: it was pointed out during beta that it was an illusion, that only a handful of builds would be accepted by the player base. Fanboys refused to believe such a fate would happen.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
I'm seriously tired of casual whiners complaining that they can't slap a build together and compete in the top 5% of the playerbase.
The complaint in this thread is: "For a game that advertises build diversity as a primary game feature, there is ZERO diversity usable builds."
Yea, I'm not sure what build balance has to do with casualness. I guess "wanting more viable options" = "casual! Not hardcore! Lazy! Whiner!" to some people.
I'm seriously tired of casual whiners complaining that they can't slap a build together and compete in the top 5% of the playerbase.
The complaint in this thread is: "For a game that advertises build diversity as a primary game feature, there is ZERO diversity usable builds."
And then he proceeded to whine about not being invited to raids or master dungeons, etc.
I don't think you are understanding what was being said. The soul system is an illusion. The problem isn't whether players are willing to do what's needed to be effective, it's that the effective options available to that player are probably half as what's available to someone playing WoW. By creating only 4 classes instead of 10, they ended up with fewer viable play styles than other games. The total opposite of how the game is marketed.
Edit: I am talking about Rift Vanilla. I understand the game may be different now, but I have moved on.
I'm seriously tired of casual whiners complaining that they can't slap a build together and compete in the top 5% of the playerbase.
The complaint in this thread is: "For a game that advertises build diversity as a primary game feature, there is ZERO diversity usable builds."
And then he proceeded to whine about not being invited to raids or master dungeons, etc.
Well yes, that is a good indicator of a USEABLE build, like he said.
If he complained about not being invited to raids or master dungeons because he so casual that he failed to grind (or cash) enough to get powerful enough to earn that right, you might have a point.
However, complaining about not being invited to raids because so many builds aren't viable/useable/competitive is an entirely different matter and has to do with game design, not casual-ness.
I'm seriously tired of casual whiners complaining that they can't slap a build together and compete in the top 5% of the playerbase.
The complaint in this thread is: "For a game that advertises build diversity as a primary game feature, there is ZERO diversity usable builds."
And then he proceeded to whine about not being invited to raids or master dungeons, etc.
Well yes, that is a good indicator of a USEABLE build, like he said.
If he complained about not being invited to raids or master dungeons because he so casual that he failed to grind (or cash) enough to get powerful enough to earn that right, you might have a point.
However, complaining about not being invited to raids because so many builds aren't viable/useable/competitive is an entirely different matter and has to do with game design, not casual-ness.
You're exactly right, its a matter of game design.
If you make it so that dozens of conceivable builds are "viable" for "end game" raid content, then the only way to do that is to make the "end game" raid content extremely easy.
If you have people making lets say 6 different builds, and one does an average of 10k dps, and the most min/maxed "best" build does 15k dps. Then you have to make the raid doable with people average 10k dps, not 15k. Which then means the people doing the 15k dps average faceroll the content because its so easy.
So you run into the problem of are you making raid content for the masses (which by nature devalues and disincentivizes said raid content, because its not challenging, i.e. something easily gained is not valued) or do you design the raid content for the "elite" or whatever you want to call them.
So far in the history of MMO's no game has been able to so perfectly balance a complex class system like Rift has and acheive that. Its not mathematically possible, people are always going to figure out synergies that you didnt anticipate as a developer, so you end up in this constant cycle of buffing and nerfing trying to acheive this ever elusive goal of perfect balance.
So what developers have found out is there are basically 2 options. First is what WOW and blizzard have done, which is to simplify shit so much that you eliminate chances for synergy and powerful builds. Basically instead of skill trees you now have 2 or 3 abilities you choose and then you just mash the buttons over and over until the mob dies.
Second option is to do what blizzard did with diablo 3, which is to make item sets that allow you to do top dps, and there are maybe 2 or 3 different items set and they both compete within 5-10% of each other making them both "viable".
Both of these do not solve the inherent problems.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Comments
What we are seeing is possibly an account that is kept running 24/7, for farming purposes.
16,791 total hours played / 4 years played = 4197.75 hours / year.
4197.75 hours / year / 52 weeks / year = 80.72561 hours / week.
I suspect a two man crew, each working 40 hours a week. Refreshing to put a tag with all that farming.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
That is the exact problem with games like this. People get hung up on a specific character design. Your big boys are all idiots and don't want a challenge, why even bother to play it?
Not entirely sure what you're on about.
Just as a point of reference, i quit playing Rift about 2 years ago, so no idea how it is now.
That being said, i've "end game" raided in EQ, WOW, Rift, and a multitude of other games, Rift had far and away the most fun and the most challenging raids ive encounter, that includes group content as well. In particular Akylios was a lot of fun. Regardless, not sure if im wasting my time or not by trying to explain things, because the general concensus amongst non raiders is that raiders only raid so they can lord their phat lewtz over the casual peasents, which couldnt be further from the truth, but, whatever. /shrug.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
That in any mmo with the player base wants the best of the best spec, if one class is under power in top endgame guild if they see it worthless then you have to follow there rules pick the best spec and run it even if don't you want to play that way, thats how in general mmo are.
They decided balancing near infinite combinations of builds was near impossible, so they nerfed everything that did not go a full 60 into one soul. Much easier to balance around.
As for build diversity: it was pointed out during beta that it was an illusion, that only a handful of builds would be accepted by the player base. Fanboys refused to believe such a fate would happen.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
The complaint in this thread is: "For a game that advertises build diversity as a primary game feature, there is ZERO diversity usable builds."
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Yea, I'm not sure what build balance has to do with casualness. I guess "wanting more viable options" = "casual! Not hardcore! Lazy! Whiner!" to some people.
And then he proceeded to whine about not being invited to raids or master dungeons, etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I don't think you are understanding what was being said. The soul system is an illusion. The problem isn't whether players are willing to do what's needed to be effective, it's that the effective options available to that player are probably half as what's available to someone playing WoW. By creating only 4 classes instead of 10, they ended up with fewer viable play styles than other games. The total opposite of how the game is marketed.
Edit: I am talking about Rift Vanilla. I understand the game may be different now, but I have moved on.
Well yes, that is a good indicator of a USEABLE build, like he said.
If he complained about not being invited to raids or master dungeons because he so casual that he failed to grind (or cash) enough to get powerful enough to earn that right, you might have a point.
However, complaining about not being invited to raids because so many builds aren't viable/useable/competitive is an entirely different matter and has to do with game design, not casual-ness.
You're exactly right, its a matter of game design.
If you make it so that dozens of conceivable builds are "viable" for "end game" raid content, then the only way to do that is to make the "end game" raid content extremely easy.
If you have people making lets say 6 different builds, and one does an average of 10k dps, and the most min/maxed "best" build does 15k dps. Then you have to make the raid doable with people average 10k dps, not 15k. Which then means the people doing the 15k dps average faceroll the content because its so easy.
So you run into the problem of are you making raid content for the masses (which by nature devalues and disincentivizes said raid content, because its not challenging, i.e. something easily gained is not valued) or do you design the raid content for the "elite" or whatever you want to call them.
So far in the history of MMO's no game has been able to so perfectly balance a complex class system like Rift has and acheive that. Its not mathematically possible, people are always going to figure out synergies that you didnt anticipate as a developer, so you end up in this constant cycle of buffing and nerfing trying to acheive this ever elusive goal of perfect balance.
So what developers have found out is there are basically 2 options. First is what WOW and blizzard have done, which is to simplify shit so much that you eliminate chances for synergy and powerful builds. Basically instead of skill trees you now have 2 or 3 abilities you choose and then you just mash the buttons over and over until the mob dies.
Second option is to do what blizzard did with diablo 3, which is to make item sets that allow you to do top dps, and there are maybe 2 or 3 different items set and they both compete within 5-10% of each other making them both "viable".
Both of these do not solve the inherent problems.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche