Originally posted by Vinadil Perhaps the final dominance of WoW will actually fuel some changes in the MMO market. The fact is every business would love to deal with the problems of creating the most popular MMO ever worldwide, streaming in some 40 million dollars each month. Anyone who says that Blizzard did anything but succeed is just nuts. But, that huge success has all but shut the door on cookie-cutter games in the future. Now the choice is: a) compete with WoW or b) make something new. The time for new things might just be forced on new developers, especially those wanting to capture some of the Western market. The only thing that bugs me about articles like this one are when people try to say that Blizzard messed up. If only I could mess up my personal finances as badly as they did...
I just want to say this: there is much, much more beyond WoW!!...I'd be willing to say it goes to Nirvana! (wait, is that a game already?)
The next big thing will have people saying more than WOW....they'll be saying GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!
(sorry, I get a little excited)
and furthermore...do you know what I really believe can go beyond wow? Humor!! I'm convinced the next big thing will be so full of good feeling humor that WoW will change it's name to Woe. We need and love to laugh!! (who wants to play online games and have a coronary? not me baby!)
Is it ok to use beauty and onlinegames in the same sentence here?
Sure. Games are a form of expression. and there's beauty in the look of a game but there is not beauty in the game design (MxO) but then there's beauty in the game design, but no beauty in the look of the game (UO).
When will a game have both? Maybe Blizzards next MMO... looking at Vanguard, Seed, and Fallen Earth right now. Any other game out there that looks promising?
"I've never said anything worth quoting." -Lord Drako
i've been doing some reading and they kinda all look the same to me...went to the live chat though and heard about "goonworld". lol
Maybe that will be interesting eh?
"goonworld" the problem with that is if anyone calls it GW...you know what they are thinking of. So maybe it will have to be GNW or something like that
Sovrath - Maybe you are right. But that anger comes from the fact that things arent changing fast enough. Ill be dead by the time they make a decent game
Its got to be a private company funded by some rich guy. So they dont have to answer to anyone. Someone on these forums win the lottery and start up a production company for a MMOG.
There is a way to make money, just look at all the people on this forum and ones like it. Dissatisfied, yet eager to pay for a game.
www.trialsofascension.com looks even better. It addresses every weak point in the article with its design if you search hard enough and the boards are very friendly. I hope it can deliver.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
First off I have to say the author seems extremely bitter about MMOG's. Almost like he had a very bad experience and is flaming the genre as a whole.
You cannot compare a FPS and a MMOG. They attract different players and are vastly different in play styles. When I play an Unreal game I know I will be facing other players whose sole goal is to frag me into itty bitty bits. The same cannot be said for a MMOG, as when I'm mining I do not expect some bozo to sneak up behind me and tac nuke me into low orbit.
He seemed to be stressing PvP an awful lot. That is one of the single most touchy things to add to a MMOG. Make it too hardcore and you'll lose players, make it too "carebear" and you'll lose players. In all the MMOG's I've played that have had PvP of some form, I actually spend most of my time in PvE. The PvP aspect was a nice side thing to do, not the be-all end-all of the particular game.
The WoW bashing seemed to be rather biased too. I got the impression he disliked the game for some reason as his statement about boredom in it was inaccurate. It's been well over 4 months and WoW's numbers are growing (regardless of Asia/Europe), mainly due to the replayability. Until someone has 60's of every class I doubt they will get bored anytime soon, so I don't see how the "after 4 months" or the "north america numbers declining" comments being accurate.
Overall, I would have to say I disagree with much of what he said. His EverQuest comments were dead on, but from there he went off into left field making me wonder if he has actually played any of the games he is talking about.
Another great article Nathan that I enjoyed very much. Seems to me you have an excellent grasp of the problems in the present MMORPG situation. Yes our computers have gotten better but basically the games are more or less copies of others. Lets hope the devs get the message and bring some true innovation to the table before we all wander off in boredom.
Oh, and Nathan, I thought you said everything just right. How they ever going to change if we don't tell them what's wrong? Keep telling it like it is I say.
Fantasygirl, I strongly agree on the "using one's brain" and making the focus to be other than killing. Kill if necessary but not because there is nothing else to do.
Originally posted by _Seeker Sovrath - Maybe you are right. But that anger comes from the fact that things arent changing fast enough. Ill be dead by the time they make a decent game Its got to be a private company funded by some rich guy. So they dont have to answer to anyone. Someone on these forums win the lottery and start up a production company for a MMOG. There is a way to make money, just look at all the people on this forum and ones like it. Dissatisfied, yet eager to pay for a game.
Oh, believe me seeker... I feel your pain.. don't think I don't...
My main game is Lineage 2... love so much about it but the things I don't like I "really" don't like. But what am I to do? Wait for some company to create a game with inspiring epic art design but one that has imagination with regards to gameplay. lol. yeah... I've had that fantasy... inherit several million, hire the best and go for it... but then I wake up and realize that my soup is burning and I'm about to die and be sent to town...
sigh.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Hashman Everquest is seven years old this March, but is not light years apart from World of Warcraft. WoW appeals greatly to the iPod gamer (gets what they want right here, right now as often as they want) who typically spends just a few hours a week playing. The editorial is spot on, the mechanics and design has only been tweaked. Will we be calling games 7 years from now WoW clones? I hope not. There are signs, okay small ones, that game designers are shifting to a more non-level-based sandbox type game. See how EVE is doing, very well thank you. Does it stand out because it is different, yes. We need more games, not clones of EVE, that are willing to take a risk, be bold. Nobody wants to go the way of UO:X, Mythica, Wish, Dragon Empires, (all EQ-clones?) fortune favours the brave. The mmorpg market is absolutely bulging, it's like trying to fit 1,000 people into a jet, with some new kid on the block taking up all the air. Trouble is no-one wants to use another jet, they all seem to want to fit into the already full one. The scene is changing, but it will take time and if games that are more radical, or just plain different, don't prove popular then we may be faced with WoW-clones, sorry EQ-clones, for a good while yet.
Your post reminded me of WISH...that was my very first beta invitation! I was so excited! I actually went out and bought a brand new computer JUST for gaming. (dumb) I then read, read and read more. The boards were full of so many words I couldn't see straight. It got to point where the forums seem like one huge orgy...then all of a sudden GAME OVER!! Post after post saying...let's take this somewhere else. It was one big role-playing festival. (yes, I'm critical) Wondering if all mmorpg's require sexual energy to get started???
As a relative newcomer to online games and an older player I gotta tell ya the crap gets old afterawhile and I yearn for something I can wrap my mind around. Talking trash is ok once in awhile but it soon gets boring (had to learn this the hard way). Really, what are the options? What drives people? What do they want to be stimulated with? Actually, it's not always sex. Seduction is something the gaming industry does quite well though. Some of us want more than hack and slash, kill more of this, that and the other thing and we want to be rid of "barrens chat". We want more than the seduction that is used hook us then just leave us there to dry. But, again...the tactic most of the industry uses WORKS to keep people hooked.
Take a look at the WoW boards when females want armor that doesn't come out of the Fredericks catalog. (whole nuther issue i'm afraid) "eye candy" they call it...well, then where is the "eye candy" for the women? (ok, enough diversion)
Gah, there is so much more that could be entertaining than being called a whore then getting ganked.
Ok...here is an idea someone just talked to me about...how about game travel? We create a primary character and can travel from game to game....visit them, if you will.
And, I for one, would stop this limitation on gear. Let people gear up and head out to explore. Stop hindering people.
Nice summary of many of the problems in MMORPGs that are often discussed on many forums. But, how about an article that includes some suggestions for solutions to the listed problems?
Originally posted by gillvane1 Nice summary of many of the problems in MMORPGs that are often discussed on many forums. But, how about an article that includes some suggestions for solutions to the listed problems?http://www.mmorpgmaker.com
well, I'll tell ya...I have lot's of suggestions but after viewing this site now for over a week I'm not too keen to throw my ideas out there to a site that advertises "professional leveling services", or how to buy gold for WoW. I'm an idea person and I value that.
Someone mentioned "eager to spend money" on a game. I'd like to say this: I'm becoming very picky about where I throw the money now and I'm not eager to spend a dime on more stuff that only makes me feel bad.
Like WoW for instance...I had no problem with the game itself and would still be there if the company had any decency at all in regards to how they treat customers. The game is rampant with cheaters and Hacks and the playing field is so far beyond level it isn't even funny.
However, I still liked playing certain parts of it...but alas eventually the negative won out.
I see it as good thing now and same goes for this site.
It's a nice set up you have here but thanks but no thanks...I'll be taking my drivel elsewhere. "Professional leveling services", "how to buy gold for games"....etc, just ruin any experience I think I might have and I don't want to look at it.
I'll send my money where I choose to...and when I see the company is crooked and they treat me bad.....it's "seeyalater". And, furthermore, I don't care if they don't care. It isn't about them anyway really...it's about how I feel. I can't play a game and feel good about it knowing the company producing it is less than honest.
Thank you for letting me test the waters here. I'm off to parts unknown.
I'm researching a game I found that caught my eye.
The whole MMO market is undoubtedly vast and is growing all the time. There should be enough room for variety, and here I fundamentally agree with the article that we simply aren't getting that right now. I've recently become a father for the first time. I've always enjoyed gaming, and only recently - two years ago - discovered MMOs. The other day I found myself considering if I'd really want my daughter to spend hours each day sitting in front of a PC, clicking away, staring zombie-like at a monitor. Of course not. Who would. Sure it's fun, but there's gotta be more to life, surely. And here's the thing, MMOs have the 'potential' to add to people's lives. Imagine a game where children are actively encouraged to learn, adapt, try new things, experiment, to chop and change, think on the spur of the moment. When was the last time any of us did that in a game? I certainly don't, you don't need to. All you have to do these days, is nag people to let you into a guild. Then join parties to your heart's content, click your way up the levels, even questing has become largely redundant. Imagine a game where Teens can actually learn things, useful life experiences rendered electronically through story-telling, that prepare him for adulthood...imagine actually having fun again. Actually socialising in a world, where everyone isn't in such a hurry that they can't talk cos they want to power level up four levels before the end of the weekend. MMOs can be so much more, and I've got faith that they'll get there in the end. But at the moment, few titles are commanding my attention - I'm hardly twitching to hand over my credit card details, put it that way.
Here's Willy's hopefuls -
StarTrek Online
Trials of Ascension
Lord of the rings Online (looking increasingly like another grinder however IMO)
Loved your words and I'm with ya! Games that stimulate the mind, emotions, and thoughts are the winners. I believe the computer and the games are powerful avenues that can be used for many purposes. Many people write, "it's the parents fault" when it comes to taking a look at the games but I have to say the makers of the games have a responsibility as well.
We're all responsible as far as I'm concerned and any company just out for the fast buck isn't my kind of game. The companies taking the high road are going to win in the long run.
Comments
I just want to say this: there is much, much more beyond WoW!!...I'd be willing to say it goes to Nirvana! (wait, is that a game already?)
The next big thing will have people saying more than WOW....they'll be saying GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!!
(sorry, I get a little excited)
and furthermore...do you know what I really believe can go beyond wow? Humor!! I'm convinced the next big thing will be so full of good feeling humor that WoW will change it's name to Woe. We need and love to laugh!! (who wants to play online games and have a coronary? not me baby!)
Sure. Games are a form of expression. and there's beauty in the look of a game but there is not beauty in the game design (MxO) but then there's beauty in the game design, but no beauty in the look of the game (UO).
When will a game have both? Maybe Blizzards next MMO... looking at Vanguard, Seed, and Fallen Earth right now. Any other game out there that looks promising?
"I've never said anything worth quoting." -Lord Drako
i've been doing some reading and they kinda all look the same to me...went to the live chat though and heard about "goonworld". lol
Maybe that will be interesting eh?
"goonworld" the problem with that is if anyone calls it GW...you know what they are thinking of. So maybe it will have to be GNW or something like that
Sovrath - Maybe you are right. But that anger comes from the fact that things arent changing fast enough. Ill be dead by the time they make a decent game
Its got to be a private company funded by some rich guy. So they dont have to answer to anyone. Someone on these forums win the lottery and start up a production company for a MMOG.
There is a way to make money, just look at all the people on this forum and ones like it. Dissatisfied, yet eager to pay for a game.
Darkfall looks good....
www.trialsofascension.com looks even better. It addresses every weak point in the article with its design if you search hard enough and the boards are very friendly. I hope it can deliver.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
First off I have to say the author seems extremely bitter about MMOG's. Almost like he had a very bad experience and is flaming the genre as a whole.
You cannot compare a FPS and a MMOG. They attract different players and are vastly different in play styles. When I play an Unreal game I know I will be facing other players whose sole goal is to frag me into itty bitty bits. The same cannot be said for a MMOG, as when I'm mining I do not expect some bozo to sneak up behind me and tac nuke me into low orbit.
He seemed to be stressing PvP an awful lot. That is one of the single most touchy things to add to a MMOG. Make it too hardcore and you'll lose players, make it too "carebear" and you'll lose players. In all the MMOG's I've played that have had PvP of some form, I actually spend most of my time in PvE. The PvP aspect was a nice side thing to do, not the be-all end-all of the particular game.
The WoW bashing seemed to be rather biased too. I got the impression he disliked the game for some reason as his statement about boredom in it was inaccurate. It's been well over 4 months and WoW's numbers are growing (regardless of Asia/Europe), mainly due to the replayability. Until someone has 60's of every class I doubt they will get bored anytime soon, so I don't see how the "after 4 months" or the "north america numbers declining" comments being accurate.
Overall, I would have to say I disagree with much of what he said. His EverQuest comments were dead on, but from there he went off into left field making me wonder if he has actually played any of the games he is talking about.
Oh well , that's my 2coppers worth....
Another great article Nathan that I enjoyed very much. Seems to me you have an excellent grasp of the problems in the present MMORPG situation. Yes our computers have gotten better but basically the games are more or less copies of others. Lets hope the devs get the message and bring some true innovation to the table before we all wander off in boredom.
Oh, and Nathan, I thought you said everything just right. How they ever going to change if we don't tell them what's wrong? Keep telling it like it is I say.
Fantasygirl, I strongly agree on the "using one's brain" and making the focus to be other than killing. Kill if necessary but not because there is nothing else to do.
Looking forward to part three.
~Joebert
Oh, believe me seeker... I feel your pain.. don't think I don't...
My main game is Lineage 2... love so much about it but the things I don't like I "really" don't like. But what am I to do? Wait for some company to create a game with inspiring epic art design but one that has imagination with regards to gameplay. lol. yeah... I've had that fantasy... inherit several million, hire the best and go for it... but then I wake up and realize that my soup is burning and I'm about to die and be sent to town...
sigh.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your post reminded me of WISH...that was my very first beta invitation! I was so excited! I actually went out and bought a brand new computer JUST for gaming. (dumb) I then read, read and read more. The boards were full of so many words I couldn't see straight. It got to point where the forums seem like one huge orgy...then all of a sudden GAME OVER!! Post after post saying...let's take this somewhere else. It was one big role-playing festival. (yes, I'm critical) Wondering if all mmorpg's require sexual energy to get started???
As a relative newcomer to online games and an older player I gotta tell ya the crap gets old afterawhile and I yearn for something I can wrap my mind around. Talking trash is ok once in awhile but it soon gets boring (had to learn this the hard way). Really, what are the options? What drives people? What do they want to be stimulated with? Actually, it's not always sex. Seduction is something the gaming industry does quite well though. Some of us want more than hack and slash, kill more of this, that and the other thing and we want to be rid of "barrens chat". We want more than the seduction that is used hook us then just leave us there to dry. But, again...the tactic most of the industry uses WORKS to keep people hooked.
Take a look at the WoW boards when females want armor that doesn't come out of the Fredericks catalog. (whole nuther issue i'm afraid) "eye candy" they call it...well, then where is the "eye candy" for the women? (ok, enough diversion)
Gah, there is so much more that could be entertaining than being called a whore then getting ganked.
Ok...here is an idea someone just talked to me about...how about game travel? We create a primary character and can travel from game to game....visit them, if you will.
And, I for one, would stop this limitation on gear. Let people gear up and head out to explore. Stop hindering people.
more two cents than i anticipated
Nice summary of many of the problems in MMORPGs that are often discussed on many forums. But, how about an article that includes some suggestions for solutions to the listed problems?
http://www.mmorpgmaker.com
well, I'll tell ya...I have lot's of suggestions but after viewing this site now for over a week I'm not too keen to throw my ideas out there to a site that advertises "professional leveling services", or how to buy gold for WoW. I'm an idea person and I value that.
Someone mentioned "eager to spend money" on a game. I'd like to say this: I'm becoming very picky about where I throw the money now and I'm not eager to spend a dime on more stuff that only makes me feel bad.
Like WoW for instance...I had no problem with the game itself and would still be there if the company had any decency at all in regards to how they treat customers. The game is rampant with cheaters and Hacks and the playing field is so far beyond level it isn't even funny.
However, I still liked playing certain parts of it...but alas eventually the negative won out.
I see it as good thing now and same goes for this site.
It's a nice set up you have here but thanks but no thanks...I'll be taking my drivel elsewhere. "Professional leveling services", "how to buy gold for games"....etc, just ruin any experience I think I might have and I don't want to look at it.
I'll send my money where I choose to...and when I see the company is crooked and they treat me bad.....it's "seeyalater". And, furthermore, I don't care if they don't care. It isn't about them anyway really...it's about how I feel. I can't play a game and feel good about it knowing the company producing it is less than honest.
Thank you for letting me test the waters here. I'm off to parts unknown.
I'm researching a game I found that caught my eye.
The whole MMO market is undoubtedly vast and is growing all the time. There should be enough room for variety, and here I fundamentally agree with the article that we simply aren't getting that right now. I've recently become a father for the first time. I've always enjoyed gaming, and only recently - two years ago - discovered MMOs. The other day I found myself considering if I'd really want my daughter to spend hours each day sitting in front of a PC, clicking away, staring zombie-like at a monitor. Of course not. Who would. Sure it's fun, but there's gotta be more to life, surely. And here's the thing, MMOs have the 'potential' to add to people's lives. Imagine a game where children are actively encouraged to learn, adapt, try new things, experiment, to chop and change, think on the spur of the moment. When was the last time any of us did that in a game? I certainly don't, you don't need to. All you have to do these days, is nag people to let you into a guild. Then join parties to your heart's content, click your way up the levels, even questing has become largely redundant. Imagine a game where Teens can actually learn things, useful life experiences rendered electronically through story-telling, that prepare him for adulthood...imagine actually having fun again. Actually socialising in a world, where everyone isn't in such a hurry that they can't talk cos they want to power level up four levels before the end of the weekend. MMOs can be so much more, and I've got faith that they'll get there in the end. But at the moment, few titles are commanding my attention - I'm hardly twitching to hand over my credit card details, put it that way.
Here's Willy's hopefuls -
StarTrek Online
Trials of Ascension
Lord of the rings Online (looking increasingly like another grinder however IMO)
Well Willy...I didn't stay away long from here.
Loved your words and I'm with ya! Games that stimulate the mind, emotions, and thoughts are the winners. I believe the computer and the games are powerful avenues that can be used for many purposes. Many people write, "it's the parents fault" when it comes to taking a look at the games but I have to say the makers of the games have a responsibility as well.
We're all responsible as far as I'm concerned and any company just out for the fast buck isn't my kind of game. The companies taking the high road are going to win in the long run.
Liked your post!