You realize this guy runs a business just like anyone else?He made several games in the past,all of which i would consider budget ware games,he is out to make a profit just like everyone else.
He is making a game that brings NOTHING new to the genre.You sit in a cockpit arguably no better than any other game doing the same thing and fire pew pew at targets.His game is built in space,the EASIEST setting to make a game,costs pennies to generate a space map/zone.
Economy???LMAO i have seen tons of really great economies,this guy has proven nothing yet and no EVE was not a great economy,a game over run by ISK sellers yes but not a great design.
SO far anything out of ship looks again budget and/or has already been done,looks to me like a copy of DUST an idea already realized by EVE/CCP.
No rush?I guess not he is making ALL of his money on promises without having to deliver a game,of course he is not going to rush anything,he is going to SOAK as much money off selling ships as he can.IMO if he releases this product,one i believe will be far inferior to what people think.He will only lose his money train which is selling ships because MOST will realize they believed in fake promises.
I doubt anything matters in the end,outsiders will see an over rated game while the fanbois will see just as Eve players see,some great game that nobody else thinks is very good.
This guy with all that money and imo MORE than enough time ,has not shown us anything worth bragging about,nothing at all.
I don't understand the mentality of someone who takes time out of their day to write such a stupid and substanceless post, simply to denigrate a game. I guess I'm not meant to understand such things.
I put my cash in for the initial costs a long long time ago for the basic package. I think I will regret this and consider it a loss. A loss in the respect of not getting a game I thought I was.
I see this game going serious pay to win - it already has in many respects. If it continues, I wont even bother playing likely.
Most AAA games are made by big companies with lots of constraints. They are forced to be bland carbon copies to make their money back. This game is different. There's not going to be any rushing the game out the door to please investors, or cutting features deemed to "risky" because it's all crowd funded. CR said he wasn't even expecting the crowd funding to break 10 million. It's essentially like giving an ambitious indie developer 100 million dollars to make a game and letting them do whatever they want with no constraints from investors or company management.
I mean reading more about this game it's sort of like as if someone who's never played MMO's before, and only had a general idea of what they where, and so had no preconceived notions as to how they should function got 100 million to make one. Like even beyond the whole sandboxyness, the fact that there are no skills, and the fact that it's completely first person with COD combat, but with an economic system as deep as EVE's, it completely turns so many genre tropes on their heads, and that's not even the start of it.
That also means there is no accountability, they can burn cash and have nothing to show. None of what you said means that the game will end up being good. Last time CR was in charge of a company he ran out of money and was 18 months behind and had to sell it to Microsoft.
Well they've already showed a lot
SC is not not much of a sandbox, player can not create much of anything, or have much effect on the universe in general. I am also not sure were you got the idea that SC would have EVE's economic system, that is just wrong. SC will not have a player run economy, it will have an influenced one, very different things. There is also no crafting, while it is planed that you can own manufacturing facilities, there is no information on how much of it you have control of, there is no direct crafting."
Just because it doesn't conform to yournarrow idea of what a sandbox is doesn't mean it's not a sandbox. That's exactly what I'm talking about, the game isn't hampered by excessive pre-conceptions as to how this or that "should be." Also I never said it had an economy like EVE, just that it has a deep economic system and an economic focus like EVE.
SC is also not the first MMO not to have skills, there are many other games that also do not have skills. Its also not completely first person there is a 3rd person camera.
Like what MMO's? Don't say Planetside or something because that's not so much an MMORPG so much as an open world futuristic COD.
SC does not turn any ganre's on their heads, in fact SC is not really do anything new in terms of gameplay. What is new is that SC is trying to put many different types of game play into a single game, while making those gameplay feel seamless between them.
Oh and on the whole rushing it out the door, well CR already gave that excuse for the release of AC.
LOL who says I have a narrow view of what a sandbox is? Just look at the definition of a sandbox and SC has very little of it. Also you have yet to show that SC has a deep economy, when in fact it does not. Nor is that economy a focus, I have no idea where you got that idea from. You really need to look into the game a little better, its just not what you think it is.
Is their some dictionary definition of Sandbox that says it needs to be exactly like EVE or SWG to be a sandbox? The economy is pretty much the focus, the majority of the missions and PVP are based around it. I mean I really can't think of anything that doesn't have to do with the economy in the game. You're either transporting or modifying goods, fighting over resources and economic nodes in PVP, doing missions that are dynamically spawned by the economic nodes ( and how you handle those missions determines how the economy functions), or you're mining, or you're manufacturing your own products with the factory or mine that you own. Just because both players and AI do the things that normally just players would do in EVE doesn't mean it's not a sandbox.
LOL, did I say it had to be exactly like EVE or SWG? Nope. Heck at what point did I talk about those games and sandbox? Are you jumping to conclusions? Yep. Perhaps to make it easier for you, you should type my posts, that way you can continue to make up both sides.
So what if the missions are moving things, does not mean you have much effect on the economy nor does it mean the game is about the economy. That is like saying Euro Trucker is about the economy because you are moving cargo around. hahahaha. CIG have stated over and over again, the economy is player influenced, that is all. Just because the players effect the economy does not mean that it has the same depth as or is the focus of the game the way EVE is. SC does not even come close, and its not trying to, to what EVE's economy is.
Most AAA games are made by big companies with lots of constraints. They are forced to be bland carbon copies to make their money back. This game is different. There's not going to be any rushing the game out the door to please investors, or cutting features deemed to "risky" because it's all crowd funded. CR said he wasn't even expecting the crowd funding to break 10 million. It's essentially like giving an ambitious indie developer 100 million dollars to make a game and letting them do whatever they want with no constraints from investors or company management.
I mean reading more about this game it's sort of like as if someone who's never played MMO's before, and only had a general idea of what they where, and so had no preconceived notions as to how they should function got 100 million to make one. Like even beyond the whole sandboxyness, the fact that there are no skills, and the fact that it's completely first person with COD combat, but with an economic system as deep as EVE's, it completely turns so many genre tropes on their heads, and that's not even the start of it.
That also means there is no accountability, they can burn cash and have nothing to show. None of what you said means that the game will end up being good. Last time CR was in charge of a company he ran out of money and was 18 months behind and had to sell it to Microsoft.
Well they've already showed a lot
SC is not not much of a sandbox, player can not create much of anything, or have much effect on the universe in general. I am also not sure were you got the idea that SC would have EVE's economic system, that is just wrong. SC will not have a player run economy, it will have an influenced one, very different things. There is also no crafting, while it is planed that you can own manufacturing facilities, there is no information on how much of it you have control of, there is no direct crafting."
Just because it doesn't conform to yournarrow idea of what a sandbox is doesn't mean it's not a sandbox. That's exactly what I'm talking about, the game isn't hampered by excessive pre-conceptions as to how this or that "should be." Also I never said it had an economy like EVE, just that it has a deep economic system and an economic focus like EVE.
SC is also not the first MMO not to have skills, there are many other games that also do not have skills. Its also not completely first person there is a 3rd person camera.
Like what MMO's? Don't say Planetside or something because that's not so much an MMORPG so much as an open world futuristic COD.
SC does not turn any ganre's on their heads, in fact SC is not really do anything new in terms of gameplay. What is new is that SC is trying to put many different types of game play into a single game, while making those gameplay feel seamless between them.
Oh and on the whole rushing it out the door, well CR already gave that excuse for the release of AC.
LOL who says I have a narrow view of what a sandbox is? Just look at the definition of a sandbox and SC has very little of it. Also you have yet to show that SC has a deep economy, when in fact it does not. Nor is that economy a focus, I have no idea where you got that idea from. You really need to look into the game a little better, its just not what you think it is.
Is their some dictionary definition of Sandbox that says it needs to be exactly like EVE or SWG to be a sandbox? The economy is pretty much the focus, the majority of the missions and PVP are based around it. I mean I really can't think of anything that doesn't have to do with the economy in the game. You're either transporting or modifying goods, fighting over resources and economic nodes in PVP, doing missions that are dynamically spawned by the economic nodes ( and how you handle those missions determines how the economy functions), or you're mining, or you're manufacturing your own products with the factory or mine that you own. Just because both players and AI do the things that normally just players would do in EVE doesn't mean it's not a sandbox.
LOL, did I say it had to be exactly like EVE or SWG? Nope. Heck at what point did I talk about those games and sandbox? Are you jumping to conclusions? Yep. Perhaps to make it easier for you, you should type my posts, that way you can continue to make up both sides.
So what if the missions are moving things, does not mean you have much effect on the economy nor does it mean the game is about the economy. That is like saying Euro Trucker is about the economy because you are moving cargo around. hahahaha. CIG have stated over and over again, the economy is player influenced, that is all. Just because the players effect the economy does not mean that it has the same depth as or is the focus of the game the way EVE is. SC does not even come close, and its not trying to, to what EVE's economy is.
A game with "optional" PvP can´t be a sandbox like Eve, since the player driven component is missing.
However in SC there will be large lawless sectors as well as player run stations and factories are confirmed, so yes there will be crafting. That´s where the "real" sandbox happens where I suppose players will have a much higher impact on the economy.
It has been said from the beginning the NPCs doing jobs and trade runs will outnumber players anyway, so of course players can´t completely take over the economy, or completely crash prices etc. You can however compete with NPCs, and if the stuff they are transporting does not arrive at the destination, you as a player made an impact on the economy, even if it´s just a small one.
Big orgs will definitely be able to drive prices, although as I said I don´t think at "world domination level". (Which is a good thing). I´ll prefer to stick around in lawless areas though as it just sounds more risky and therefore more fun. Others will just trade in safer UEE areas with guaranteed but somewhat lower profit.
you are wasting your time trying to convert this small handful of haters. they just want to sit around looking at the anime boobies this site likes so much
lol
they sure make a lot of noise for a ratio of 99,9% to 0,1%
It will be interesting to see how the game develops, but i think its too early to say one way or the other how the game will even turn out, i think we all need to see the game in its finished state, however long that takes, to make some kind of judgement call on it, i am looking forward to the day it releases, but i have no intention of jumping in early, with the game in its current state i think that would spoil the experience. Have to say though, i do not see this game being a replacement for Eve Online, but when its finished i am hoping that it will encourage more developers to think Scifi instead of Fantasy
SC is not intended to replace EVE ... it complements it.
EVE is the specialist for large scale engagements, Meta-gaming and power blocks of thousands of players. EVE is the specialist for hardcore PvP, whereever, whenever (that includes high security areas). SC is not attempting to challenge EVE in these areas.
Most AAA games are made by big companies with lots of constraints. They are forced to be bland carbon copies to make their money back. This game is different. There's not going to be any rushing the game out the door to please investors, or cutting features deemed to "risky" because it's all crowd funded. CR said he wasn't even expecting the crowd funding to break 10 million. It's essentially like giving an ambitious indie developer 100 million dollars to make a game and letting them do whatever they want with no constraints from investors or company management.
I mean reading more about this game it's sort of like as if someone who's never played MMO's before, and only had a general idea of what they where, and so had no preconceived notions as to how they should function got 100 million to make one. Like even beyond the whole sandboxyness, the fact that there are no skills, and the fact that it's completely first person with COD combat, but with an economic system as deep as EVE's, it completely turns so many genre tropes on their heads, and that's not even the start of it.
That also means there is no accountability, they can burn cash and have nothing to show. None of what you said means that the game will end up being good. Last time CR was in charge of a company he ran out of money and was 18 months behind and had to sell it to Microsoft.
Well they've already showed a lot
SC is not not much of a sandbox, player can not create much of anything, or have much effect on the universe in general. I am also not sure were you got the idea that SC would have EVE's economic system, that is just wrong. SC will not have a player run economy, it will have an influenced one, very different things. There is also no crafting, while it is planed that you can own manufacturing facilities, there is no information on how much of it you have control of, there is no direct crafting."
Just because it doesn't conform to yournarrow idea of what a sandbox is doesn't mean it's not a sandbox. That's exactly what I'm talking about, the game isn't hampered by excessive pre-conceptions as to how this or that "should be." Also I never said it had an economy like EVE, just that it has a deep economic system and an economic focus like EVE.
SC is also not the first MMO not to have skills, there are many other games that also do not have skills. Its also not completely first person there is a 3rd person camera.
Like what MMO's? Don't say Planetside or something because that's not so much an MMORPG so much as an open world futuristic COD.
SC does not turn any ganre's on their heads, in fact SC is not really do anything new in terms of gameplay. What is new is that SC is trying to put many different types of game play into a single game, while making those gameplay feel seamless between them.
Oh and on the whole rushing it out the door, well CR already gave that excuse for the release of AC.
LOL who says I have a narrow view of what a sandbox is? Just look at the definition of a sandbox and SC has very little of it. Also you have yet to show that SC has a deep economy, when in fact it does not. Nor is that economy a focus, I have no idea where you got that idea from. You really need to look into the game a little better, its just not what you think it is.
Is their some dictionary definition of Sandbox that says it needs to be exactly like EVE or SWG to be a sandbox? The economy is pretty much the focus, the majority of the missions and PVP are based around it. I mean I really can't think of anything that doesn't have to do with the economy in the game. You're either transporting or modifying goods, fighting over resources and economic nodes in PVP, doing missions that are dynamically spawned by the economic nodes ( and how you handle those missions determines how the economy functions), or you're mining, or you're manufacturing your own products with the factory or mine that you own. Just because both players and AI do the things that normally just players would do in EVE doesn't mean it's not a sandbox.
LOL, did I say it had to be exactly like EVE or SWG? Nope. Heck at what point did I talk about those games and sandbox? Are you jumping to conclusions? Yep. Perhaps to make it easier for you, you should type my posts, that way you can continue to make up both sides.
That's basically what your implying with you're ridiculously narrow definition of sandbox.
So what if the missions are moving things, does not mean you have much effect on the economy nor does it mean the game is about the economy. That is like saying Euro Trucker is about the economy because you are moving cargo around. hahahaha.
It's absolutely nothing like that because there's no dynamic economy in Euro trucker.
CIG have stated over and over again, the economy is player influenced, that is all.
Yes, and? It's still completely dynamic. You can do basically everything you can do to effect the economy in eve, except the roles can be filled with either NPC's or people. You can blockade a whole system to deplete it's supplies, engage in player politics over resource wars, start a trading empire by buying up resource and production nodes etc.
Seriously what is the point of wasting a portion of your day just to bash a game?
Most AAA games are made by big companies with lots of constraints. They are forced to be bland carbon copies to make their money back. This game is different. There's not going to be any rushing the game out the door to please investors, or cutting features deemed to "risky" because it's all crowd funded. CR said he wasn't even expecting the crowd funding to break 10 million. It's essentially like giving an ambitious indie developer 100 million dollars to make a game and letting them do whatever they want with no constraints from investors or company management.
I mean reading more about this game it's sort of like as if someone who's never played MMO's before, and only had a general idea of what they where, and so had no preconceived notions as to how they should function got 100 million to make one. Like even beyond the whole sandboxyness, the fact that there are no skills, and the fact that it's completely first person with COD combat, but with an economic system as deep as EVE's, it completely turns so many genre tropes on their heads, and that's not even the start of it.
That also means there is no accountability, they can burn cash and have nothing to show. None of what you said means that the game will end up being good. Last time CR was in charge of a company he ran out of money and was 18 months behind and had to sell it to Microsoft.
Well they've already showed a lot
SC is not not much of a sandbox, player can not create much of anything, or have much effect on the universe in general. I am also not sure were you got the idea that SC would have EVE's economic system, that is just wrong. SC will not have a player run economy, it will have an influenced one, very different things. There is also no crafting, while it is planed that you can own manufacturing facilities, there is no information on how much of it you have control of, there is no direct crafting."
Just because it doesn't conform to yournarrow idea of what a sandbox is doesn't mean it's not a sandbox. That's exactly what I'm talking about, the game isn't hampered by excessive pre-conceptions as to how this or that "should be." Also I never said it had an economy like EVE, just that it has a deep economic system and an economic focus like EVE.
SC is also not the first MMO not to have skills, there are many other games that also do not have skills. Its also not completely first person there is a 3rd person camera.
Like what MMO's? Don't say Planetside or something because that's not so much an MMORPG so much as an open world futuristic COD.
SC does not turn any ganre's on their heads, in fact SC is not really do anything new in terms of gameplay. What is new is that SC is trying to put many different types of game play into a single game, while making those gameplay feel seamless between them.
Oh and on the whole rushing it out the door, well CR already gave that excuse for the release of AC.
LOL who says I have a narrow view of what a sandbox is? Just look at the definition of a sandbox and SC has very little of it. Also you have yet to show that SC has a deep economy, when in fact it does not. Nor is that economy a focus, I have no idea where you got that idea from. You really need to look into the game a little better, its just not what you think it is.
Is their some dictionary definition of Sandbox that says it needs to be exactly like EVE or SWG to be a sandbox? The economy is pretty much the focus, the majority of the missions and PVP are based around it. I mean I really can't think of anything that doesn't have to do with the economy in the game. You're either transporting or modifying goods, fighting over resources and economic nodes in PVP, doing missions that are dynamically spawned by the economic nodes ( and how you handle those missions determines how the economy functions), or you're mining, or you're manufacturing your own products with the factory or mine that you own. Just because both players and AI do the things that normally just players would do in EVE doesn't mean it's not a sandbox.
LOL, did I say it had to be exactly like EVE or SWG? Nope. Heck at what point did I talk about those games and sandbox? Are you jumping to conclusions? Yep. Perhaps to make it easier for you, you should type my posts, that way you can continue to make up both sides.
That's basically what your implying with you're ridiculously narrow definition of sandbox.
So what if the missions are moving things, does not mean you have much effect on the economy nor does it mean the game is about the economy. That is like saying Euro Trucker is about the economy because you are moving cargo around. hahahaha.
It's absolutely nothing like that because there's no dynamic economy in Euro trucker.
CIG have stated over and over again, the economy is player influenced, that is all.
Yes, and? It's still completely dynamic. You can do basically everything you can do to effect the economy in eve, except the roles can be filled with either NPC's or people. You can blockade a whole system, engage in player politics over resource wars, start a trading empire by buying up resource and production nodes etc.
Seriously what is the point of wasting a portion of your day just to bash a game?
The sad part is that you think I am bashing the game. Please point out how I am bashing the game, stating what the Dev are trying to create and how the game is being made is not bashing the game. Sorry but NOT making up hype and fantasy versions of the game is bashing the game.
Better question is what is the point of wasting a portion of your day hyping a game and features that the Dev have never said would be in the game?
It's probably more than 750,000, because if that where the case the average donation would be 100 dollars per person.
There are currently 840.116 Star Citizen Accounts. Not all of them have pledged / backed / spent some money.
Among these there are 649.014 accounts called "UEE Fleet". The general idea is that these are the people with Arena Commander access and at least one ship/pledge package.
That would mean overall the average spending was 116 $ per (paying) pledge account. I would not call it "per person" as there are some people with multiple accounts.
Originally posted by Arglebargle I'm just glad that my dream game isn't being helmed by Chris Roberts....
Sorry, you must have Chris Roberts and Brad McQuaid mixed up.
I'm glad Chris Roberts is doing this game, simply because this guy basically makes dream babies. Oh, what's that? You really want an immersive space flight sim? What? You want a shooter where you can like invade stuff? BAM!!! Dream Baby!
Sorry, but the simple fact is that you're talking about someone executing on his vision, and it's a vision that he's been trying to bring to life for decades now. If you can't appreciate that then you're either too young to understand or too old and grumpy.
Originally posted by Arglebargle I'm just glad that my dream game isn't being helmed by Chris Roberts....
Sorry, you must have Chris Roberts and Brad McQuaid mixed up.
I'm glad Chris Roberts is doing this game, simply because this guy basically makes dream babies. Oh, what's that? You really want an immersive space flight sim? What? You want a shooter where you can like invade stuff? BAM!!! Dream Baby!
Sorry, but the simple fact is that you're talking about someone executing on his vision, and it's a vision that he's been trying to bring to life for decades now. If you can't appreciate that then you're either too young to understand or too old and grumpy.
A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed. It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do. Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
CIG have created a lot of hype for their game and have been very poor, up to this point, at delivering.
A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed.
--> His "failures" have been milestones of the gaming industry (e.g. Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer). Just to put that sentence in context.
It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do.
--> Incorrect. They have VERY detailed design documents and they share them with the community. If people are too lazy to read, that is not the fault of CIG.And w.r.t. to the hype ... CIG is NOT running multi-million ad campaigns like EA or Ubisoft. The hype is mostly coming from external entities (=gaming press), not so much from CIG. They visit the usual industry events like PAX or Gamescon.
Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
--> As the destroyer won't have those 23 people all in one room - they are working on workstations and gunnery stations all over the ship - it is basically irrelevant how many people the net-code can support. We know from other games in the industry that there IS a net-code that can support more than 16 people. Not to mention that we are talking about a pre-alpha software at the moment, that still has great potential for improvement. If CIG cannot write it in house, they will have to buy it. And they have the money to buy it, if necessary. So .. not a "cart before the horse" deal.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
--> AC without multiplayer ? Huh ? Are you even playing AC ?
what i see as the biggest hurdle for them to get past right now is that a average computer can not run the game... At all...
And i have a hard time seeing the addition of a great open space doing ANYTHING to help that issue. So right now you can spend a lot of money that you can not play with no real horizon of being able to play it either due to the specs being way to high.
That is a problem... Because i have a above average but still low end machine... And the game stutter like porky pig. I will not dare to imagine what it will do on "normal" machines.
A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed.
--> His "failures" have been milestones of the gaming industry (e.g. Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer). Just to put that sentence in context.
----> True but one could argue that is the result of the publisher yoke, whenever Roberts has free reign things do tend to get a bit "promise now, deliver later", like his buddy Molyneaux
It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do.
--> Incorrect. They have VERY detailed design documents and they share them with the community. If people are too lazy to read, that is not the fault of CIG.And w.r.t. to the hype ... CIG is NOT running multi-million ad campaigns like EA or Ubisoft. The hype is mostly coming from external entities (=gaming press), not so much from CIG. They visit the usual industry events like PAX or Gamescon.
----> There's clearly a big press machine working for CIG, no one can deny that.
Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
--> As the destroyer won't have those 23 people all in one room - they are working on workstations and gunnery stations all over the ship - it is basically irrelevant how many people the net-code can support. We know from other games in the industry that there IS a net-code that can support more than 16 people. Not to mention that we are talking about a pre-alpha software at the moment, that still has great potential for improvement. If CIG cannot write it in house, they will have to buy it. And they have the money to buy it, if necessary. So .. not a "cart before the horse" deal.
----> It's not irrelevant because one expects the internal of the ship to be seamless, if they're having to sub-instance then it can seriously effect the balance of the game via loading times, net lag, PC performance and so on.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
--> AC without multiplayer ? Huh ? Are you even playing AC ?
----> Quite clear he is taking about the initial release, not the current implementation.
Originally posted by Arglebargle I'm just glad that my dream game isn't being helmed by Chris Roberts....
Sorry, you must have Chris Roberts and Brad McQuaid mixed up.
I'm glad Chris Roberts is doing this game, simply because this guy basically makes dream babies. Oh, what's that? You really want an immersive space flight sim? What? You want a shooter where you can like invade stuff? BAM!!! Dream Baby!
Sorry, but the simple fact is that you're talking about someone executing on his vision, and it's a vision that he's been trying to bring to life for decades now. If you can't appreciate that then you're either too young to understand or too old and grumpy.
A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed. It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do. Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
CIG have created a lot of hype for their game and have been very poor, up to this point, at delivering.
I don't know that you can really call it a failure. Freelancer was probably the most ambitious project where he tried to implement a lot of what's talked about in SC, but funding got cut. When a publisher tightens the purse strings, what's a designer to do? Did Freelancer ship? Yup! Was it awesome? Pretty much, yup! Privateer was another great example of innovation and world size. I forget exactly how big it was, but do remember thinking it was massive at that time.
As far as the hype goes, I get what you're saying. It's the same cycle for every new, big game, really. Honestly, I'm purposefully not paying too much attention to it. Just sets standards that are simply unrealistic. However, if you look at the core elements of the game itself, it's something to get excited about.
As far as the development process goes, I know relatively few games which are kept on any sort of realistic schedule, especially a project of this scope. As soon as you get into creating something that's never been done before, your risk skyrockets. That being said, I do know that they hit a date for their AC release pretty damn close to the mark, if I remember correctly. Plus, if you check out the site there are some fairly detailed documents about their plans. They're actually very transparent with their process. You're basically complaining in the same way that you would if a golfer didn't get a hole-in-one every time that they tee off on a par 3 hole. Everyone can be optimistic with their estimates. It's not always about nailing them, but about getting it close enough that it's not embarrassing, and I don't think they've had that embarrassing moment yet.
----> There's clearly a big press machine working for CIG, no one can deny that.
--> Yes, there IS a big press machine talking about SC. But CIG is not paying for it. The gaming press on the contrary uses SC news as click bait to generate income (many clicks = high income from ad companies). I did not see a single SC ad in a gaming newsletter or website. I have not seen a single TV ad for SC. CIG seems to put its marketing budget into visits to game trade shows like PAX East (for contact with its backers), NOT for paying the gaming press.
----> It's not irrelevant because one expects the internal of the ship to be seamless, if they're having to sub-instance then it can seriously effect the balance of the game via loading times, net lag, PC performance and so on.
--> As i said - if they cannot get it right in house, they have to pay a contractor with known working net-code to do it for them. And there ARE such contractors out there. The 75 M$ budget has to go somewhere ;-) Personally I am confident that they will get it right themselves after hiring a few more experienced people from the industry.
--> And for Squadron 42 they don't need a net-code anyway, as it is a solo campaign.
----> Quite clear he is taking about the initial release, not the current implementation.
--> Possibly. The multiplayer modes followed very shortly after the first AC mode went live - only weeks.
A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed.
--> His "failures" have been milestones of the gaming industry (e.g. Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer). Just to put that sentence in context.
I was talking about Freelancer, and how the scope of the original Freelancer was in the same vain as SC. Please learn a little about CR's gaming history. CR lost his company because he ran out of money and was 18 months behind.
It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do.
--> Incorrect. They have VERY detailed design documents and they share them with the community. If people are too lazy to read, that is not the fault of CIG.And w.r.t. to the hype ... CIG is NOT running multi-million ad campaigns like EA or Ubisoft. The hype is mostly coming from external entities (=gaming press), not so much from CIG. They visit the usual industry events like PAX or Gamescon.
Really? Then you should have no problem linking it. No the hype is coming from CIG and their weekly hype show were they talk about how amazing they are and how amazing the game is. Heck CR likes to make up facts to make his game seem more impressive, like how its the first game to have 0G FPS, hahahaha. For a long time Wingman's hangar would answer questions with "perhaps" wink "sounds good" wink, it was a constent stream of driving the players imagination.
Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
--> As the destroyer won't have those 23 people all in one room - they are working on workstations and gunnery stations all over the ship - it is basically irrelevant how many people the net-code can support. We know from other games in the industry that there IS a net-code that can support more than 16 people. Not to mention that we are talking about a pre-alpha software at the moment, that still has great potential for improvement. If CIG cannot write it in house, they will have to buy it. And they have the money to buy it, if necessary. So .. not a "cart before the horse" deal.
You should really read up on the game, those 23 should better be able to be in the same room. NVM the game still has to be able to run more in a single instance than that. Sorry but its not irrelevant at all. And it does not matter what other games can do, its only important what CIG can do. What net code do you think there is to buy? CIG already throw out the built in stuff, and I already said that they would improve it so what is your problem? CIG have started a new office with ex-crytek guys, just to work on the backend engine.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
--> AC without multiplayer ? Huh ? Are you even playing AC ?
----> There's clearly a big press machine working for CIG, no one can deny that.
--> Yes, there IS a big press machine talking about SC. But CIG is not paying for it. The gaming press on the contrary uses SC news as click bait to generate income (many clicks = high income from ad companies). I did not see a single SC ad in a gaming newsletter or website. I have not seen a single TV ad for SC. CIG seems to put its marketing budget into visits to game trade shows like PAX East (for contact with its backers), NOT for paying the gaming press.
Actually no its not outside gaming press, its CIG"s hype shows, and its crazy fanatical fanbase that attacks anyone that has anything critical to say about SC. Fans that jump to conclusions in a desperate attempt to defend their game. Its fans making up what will be done and how amazing the game will be. Then you have CR telling everyone that it will be THE BEST D SPACE SIM EVER, ya that not hyping it at all. hahahaha
----> It's not irrelevant because one expects the internal of the ship to be seamless, if they're having to sub-instance then it can seriously effect the balance of the game via loading times, net lag, PC performance and so on.
--> As i said - if they cannot get it right in house, they have to pay a contractor with known working net-code to do it for them. And there ARE such contractors out there. The 75 M$ budget has to go somewhere ;-) Personally I am confident that they will get it right themselves after hiring a few more experienced people from the industry.
--> And for Squadron 42 they don't need a net-code anyway, as it is a solo campaign.
There are no contracts and no games currently out that has Cryengine net code able to do what SC wants.
----> Quite clear he is taking about the initial release, not the current implementation.
--> Possibly. The multiplayer modes followed very shortly after the first AC mode went live - only weeks.
It took weeks before anyone was able to play multiplayer it was restricted to CIG employee's. It was then slowly rolled out to others, adding a very small number at a time. The vast majority of the backers did not have access until August 6, when the number invited jumped to all.
>>>>Actually no its not outside gaming press, its CIG"s hype shows,>>>>
CIG "hype shows" can only be seen on the CIG homepage ... so you basically would need to know about SC already. Not exactly a very effective "hype" strategy ;-)
>>>There are no contracts and no games currently out that has Cryengine net code able to do what SC wants. >>>
There are no contracts because CIG is still improving the basic 16 player multiplayer netcode of the CryEngine. I am quite confident that they can improve on that (just as they have improved the CryEngine to 64 bit), having head-hunted the best and brightest of CryTeks engineers in their new CIG Frankfurt studio.
>>> The vast majority of the backers did not have access until August 6, when the number invited jumped to all. >>
Well, its nice to be a subscriber and to get the goodies before the "vast majority" can play ;-)
Comments
I don't understand the mentality of someone who takes time out of their day to write such a stupid and substanceless post, simply to denigrate a game. I guess I'm not meant to understand such things.
I put my cash in for the initial costs a long long time ago for the basic package. I think I will regret this and consider it a loss. A loss in the respect of not getting a game I thought I was.
I see this game going serious pay to win - it already has in many respects. If it continues, I wont even bother playing likely.
LOL, did I say it had to be exactly like EVE or SWG? Nope. Heck at what point did I talk about those games and sandbox? Are you jumping to conclusions? Yep. Perhaps to make it easier for you, you should type my posts, that way you can continue to make up both sides.
So what if the missions are moving things, does not mean you have much effect on the economy nor does it mean the game is about the economy. That is like saying Euro Trucker is about the economy because you are moving cargo around. hahahaha. CIG have stated over and over again, the economy is player influenced, that is all. Just because the players effect the economy does not mean that it has the same depth as or is the focus of the game the way EVE is. SC does not even come close, and its not trying to, to what EVE's economy is.
A game with "optional" PvP can´t be a sandbox like Eve, since the player driven component is missing.
However in SC there will be large lawless sectors as well as player run stations and factories are confirmed, so yes there will be crafting. That´s where the "real" sandbox happens where I suppose players will have a much higher impact on the economy.
It has been said from the beginning the NPCs doing jobs and trade runs will outnumber players anyway, so of course players can´t completely take over the economy, or completely crash prices etc. You can however compete with NPCs, and if the stuff they are transporting does not arrive at the destination, you as a player made an impact on the economy, even if it´s just a small one.
Big orgs will definitely be able to drive prices, although as I said I don´t think at "world domination level". (Which is a good thing). I´ll prefer to stick around in lawless areas though as it just sounds more risky and therefore more fun. Others will just trade in safer UEE areas with guaranteed but somewhat lower profit.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
they sure make a lot of noise for a ratio of 99,9% to 0,1%
SC is not intended to replace EVE ... it complements it.
EVE is the specialist for large scale engagements, Meta-gaming and power blocks of thousands of players. EVE is the specialist for hardcore PvP, whereever, whenever (that includes high security areas). SC is not attempting to challenge EVE in these areas.
Have fun
Seriously what is the point of wasting a portion of your day just to bash a game?
The sad part is that you think I am bashing the game. Please point out how I am bashing the game, stating what the Dev are trying to create and how the game is being made is not bashing the game. Sorry but NOT making up hype and fantasy versions of the game is bashing the game.
Better question is what is the point of wasting a portion of your day hyping a game and features that the Dev have never said would be in the game?
By spreading disinformation.
There are currently 840.116 Star Citizen Accounts. Not all of them have pledged / backed / spent some money.
Among these there are 649.014 accounts called "UEE Fleet". The general idea is that these are the people with Arena Commander access and at least one ship/pledge package.
That would mean overall the average spending was 116 $ per (paying) pledge account. I would not call it "per person" as there are some people with multiple accounts.
Have fun
No, just correcting your hyping disinformation.
Sorry, you must have Chris Roberts and Brad McQuaid mixed up.
I'm glad Chris Roberts is doing this game, simply because this guy basically makes dream babies. Oh, what's that? You really want an immersive space flight sim? What? You want a shooter where you can like invade stuff? BAM!!! Dream Baby!
Sorry, but the simple fact is that you're talking about someone executing on his vision, and it's a vision that he's been trying to bring to life for decades now. If you can't appreciate that then you're either too young to understand or too old and grumpy.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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A vision that he has tried to execute before and failed. It is the amount of hype that CIG creates, they are trying to appeal to everyone and not hammering down what is possible and what they are really trying to do. Dreamers are a dime a dozen, and we have seen many of them fail, heck most of them do, the scary part about CR is that he tried and failed at this before, trying to make a similar game. Just an example, CIG have sold a ship that has a player crew of 23, they sold this ship for 2500. Now CIG have stated that their current net code breaks down if they have 16 people in a game, now this will improve, and they are working at making it better, but its still a cart before the horse type of deal.
CR stated that they could not get away with releasing a pre-pre alpha and that when they released the dogfighting model (AC) it would be more polished then a normal alpha. This was the reason for delaying its launch, that and doing their own netcode, stating that it would take a couple of months. 6 months later and they release a very unpolished pre-alpha, with out multiplayer.
CIG have created a lot of hype for their game and have been very poor, up to this point, at delivering.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/module/arena-commander
what i see as the biggest hurdle for them to get past right now is that a average computer can not run the game... At all...
And i have a hard time seeing the addition of a great open space doing ANYTHING to help that issue. So right now you can spend a lot of money that you can not play with no real horizon of being able to play it either due to the specs being way to high.
That is a problem... Because i have a above average but still low end machine... And the game stutter like porky pig. I will not dare to imagine what it will do on "normal" machines.
This have been a good conversation
I don't know that you can really call it a failure. Freelancer was probably the most ambitious project where he tried to implement a lot of what's talked about in SC, but funding got cut. When a publisher tightens the purse strings, what's a designer to do? Did Freelancer ship? Yup! Was it awesome? Pretty much, yup! Privateer was another great example of innovation and world size. I forget exactly how big it was, but do remember thinking it was massive at that time.
As far as the hype goes, I get what you're saying. It's the same cycle for every new, big game, really. Honestly, I'm purposefully not paying too much attention to it. Just sets standards that are simply unrealistic. However, if you look at the core elements of the game itself, it's something to get excited about.
As far as the development process goes, I know relatively few games which are kept on any sort of realistic schedule, especially a project of this scope. As soon as you get into creating something that's never been done before, your risk skyrockets. That being said, I do know that they hit a date for their AC release pretty damn close to the mark, if I remember correctly. Plus, if you check out the site there are some fairly detailed documents about their plans. They're actually very transparent with their process. You're basically complaining in the same way that you would if a golfer didn't get a hole-in-one every time that they tee off on a par 3 hole. Everyone can be optimistic with their estimates. It's not always about nailing them, but about getting it close enough that it's not embarrassing, and I don't think they've had that embarrassing moment yet.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
If you do things right in SC, space combat can look as awesome as in this EVE Valkyrie tech demo
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/view/news/page/1/read/34244/EVE-Online-Valkyrie-Gameplay-Footage-Shown-in-New-Video.html#post
I like it that the space genre is waking up again after The Long Sleep.
Have fun
And when AC shipped it did not. You know the thing that I was talking about. Please learn CIG's history before posting.
Start to read here (hundreds of posts with detailed information):
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer
and here (in depth discussions about basic game elements like economy, flight controls & physics and permadeath etc.)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/project-status
Have fun