Finally a mmorpg breaking the CURRENT GENRE.

Bahk · February 2006

Yep, thats right an upcomming mmorpg thats NOT gunna follow the current aspects ofr mmorpgs (instancing, FAST lvl to the cap, no death penalty and EASY travel. I've been waiting to see the return of this for 3 years now ever since the good old days of EQ (pre-luclin) This is what we need. Im sick of flying on dragons to my destination in 4 minutes, im SICK of hitting the lvl cap in 2 months, im sick of INSTANCES, and im SICK of dying and not caring if I do. Remember the good old classic EQ days? This is the RETURN and my god we're here to stay.

dunadurium · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Yep, thats right an upcomming mmorpg thats NOT gunna follow the current aspects ofr mmorpgs (instancing, FAST lvl to the cap, no death penalty and EASY travel. I've been waiting to see the return of this for 3 years now ever since the good old days of EQ (pre-luclin) This is what we need. Im sick of flying on dragons to my destination in 4 minutes, im SICK of hitting the lvl cap in 2 months, im sick of INSTANCES, and im SICK of dying and not caring if I do. Remember the good old classic EQ days? This is the RETURN and my god we're here to stay.

QFT!

~Dunadurium

skurvey · February 2006

We'll, instancing is not a bad thing if done for a story, not to just lower the numbers down. I also agree with death penalty, There should be one except I think body retrieving will scare people away. I would like to see this working but even though we would like this game to be fun and challenging, the market tends to stray it towards what makes the most money.

angerr · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Yep, thats right an upcomming mmorpg thats NOT gunna follow the current aspects ofr mmorpgs (instancing, FAST lvl to the cap, no death penalty and EASY travel. I've been waiting to see the return of this for 3 years now ever since the good old days of EQ (pre-luclin) This is what we need. Im sick of flying on dragons to my destination in 4 minutes, im SICK of hitting the lvl cap in 2 months, im sick of INSTANCES, and im SICK of dying and not caring if I do. Remember the good old classic EQ days? This is the RETURN and my god we're here to stay.

here,here

Morrdak · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Yep, thats right an upcomming mmorpg thats NOT gunna follow the current aspects ofr mmorpgs (instancing, FAST lvl to the cap, no death penalty and EASY travel. I've been waiting to see the return of this for 3 years now ever since the good old days of EQ (pre-luclin) This is what we need. Im sick of flying on dragons to my destination in 4 minutes, im SICK of hitting the lvl cap in 2 months, im sick of INSTANCES, and im SICK of dying and not caring if I do. Remember the good old classic EQ days? This is the RETURN and my god we're here to stay.

Woot woot!

Bahk · February 2006

Lets take a look at somthing else my friends on WHY this game is so hyped. Basically this is the LAST hope to see a mmorpg released thats geared towards "harder" aspects such as the things I listed in my op. The genre is unfourtanly dying and newer releases are "toning" down mmorpgs. After Vanguard I really don't think we will see these features in another commercial geared mmorpg AGAIN. Heres the reason it doesnt SELL UNFOURTANLY. I used to love the classic days of EQ, Ultima online, and DAOC when things were tougher but nowadays theres way to much handholding.. so my friends VG is looking like the last chance for an industry break.

angerr · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Lets take a look at somthing else my friends on WHY this game is so hyped. Basically this is the LAST hope to see a mmorpg released thats geared towards "harder" aspects such as the things I listed in my op. The genre is unfourtanly dying and newer releases are "toning" down mmorpgs. After Vanguard I really don't think we will see these features in another commercial geared mmorpg AGAIN. Heres the reason it doesnt SELL UNFOURTANLY. I used to love the classic days of EQ, Ultima online, and DAOC when things were tougher but nowadays theres way to much handholding.. so my friends VG is looking like the last chance for an industry break.

good point, but i also believe that vanguard can turn the tide..... when the industry See's the longevity in a game like vanguard things could change.

at this rate, games being geared for casuals will drop in sales quick just like console games do....mmorpg are successful because they are timesinks, and companies make most of their money in subscription fees.

so while you are correct......the industry is "dumbing down" and more and more games will attempt to follow in wow's footsteps to make money. they will also realize that they will need to hold the interest of their customers for as long as possible.

in a perfect scenario for a company would be a game that is a time sink like eq or vanguard where it could take years to master the content, thus holding their players interest for years to come.....while at the same time attracting a huge player base comparable to wow or even greater.

i honestly believe (and hope lol) that since so many new gamers have migrated to this new genre in mmorpg's, that when vanguard releases it can change the way alot of people view and love mmorpg's.

and gamers as well as developers will start wanting more challenging/rewarding games, even for casual players. that goes for every type of mmorpg, not just a game like vanguard or eq....that goes for pvp-centric games, or any type of mmorpg you can think of really.

i think the style of mmorpg will always change and evolve, but i truly believe there will always be a want/need for a challenging/rewarding game.....and hopefully there will always be someone out there willing to develop one for years to come.

angerr · February 2006

also here is a recent post by brad that is relevant to this topic.....

Also, you may want to dig up relatively recent posts I've made as to the lack of success other games have suffered trying to change their 'vision' last minute, as well as to what I and others have written about how important it is not just to stick to the vision, but also to have a solid target audience in mind when developing a game.
Changing this game fundamentally and last minute would, quite simply, be suicide. We are confident we are making the right game with a solid and viable target audience in mind and that it makes more sense to focus on that as opposed to becoming obsessed with one-upping WoW or trying to make a 'better' WoW.
I just got back from DICE in Vegas where I listened to the Garriott brothers talk about how WoW and other games have done us (NCSoft, Sigil, Microsoft, etc.) much more of a favor than anything negative. They've grown the gamespace and brought online gaming to a lot of people much more quickly than many would have expected possible. Gone are fears of market saturation. And personally, with Vanguard, I now have not just the 'old school' EQ, Daoc, etc. gamespace to appeal to with Vanguard, but now also a huge group of players newer to the MMOG gamespace. As I've posted many times in the recent past, if even only 5% or so of WoW gamers look to Vanguard for a more challenging and long term next MMOG and combine that with our original projections of how many subscribers we would attract, etc., we (MSFT and Sigil) are looking at some very nice numbers and quite a success.
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

Chieftan · February 2006

Originally posted by angerr
also here is a recent post by brad that is relevant to this topic.....Gone are fears of market saturation. And personally, with Vanguard, I now have not just the 'old school' EQ, Daoc, etc. gamespace to appeal to with Vanguard, but now also a huge group of players newer to the MMOG gamespace. As I've posted many times in the recent past, if even only 5% or so of WoW gamers look to Vanguard for a more challenging and long term next MMOG and combine that with our original projections of how many subscribers we would attract, etc., we (MSFT and Sigil) are looking at some very nice numbers and quite a success.__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

That sounds good on paper but it doesn't look like that "trickle down" equation is working with other MMOs. It seems to be the opposite actually. Everquest shut down half it's servers a few months after WoW launched. EQ2 just closed 10 servers.

I'm very interested in Vanguard and I want it to succeed but I'm skeptical about his rehashing of gameplay mechanics that weren't too spiffy even in 1998. What I really want is a middle ground between WoW and the early days of EQ. Not too easy but not an infuriating grind either.

Bahk · February 2006

Heres somthing not so much relevent to my original subject but I would like to discuss it anyway. Alot of people think Brad will have pressure to "change" the aspects that we want to see like death penalty, harder exp gain etc.. because it will sell to a larger audience like Wow but I really don't think thats the case I think that microsoft is pretty much letting them take the game in the direction they intend to. Also who cares if we dont have 5 million subs, id rather see 100-200k DEDICATED players also too much population kinda sucks.. but definitly wouldent want under 50k subs which I dont think would happen anyway ::::20:: .

dunadurium · February 2006

Originally posted by Chieftan

That sounds good on paper but it doesn't look like that "trickle down" equation is working with other MMOs. It seems to be the opposite actually. Everquest shut down half it's servers a few months after WoW launched. EQ2 just closed 10 servers.
I'm very interested in Vanguard and I want it to succeed but I'm skeptical about his rehashing of gameplay mechanics that weren't too spiffy even in 1998. What I really want is a middle ground between WoW and the early days of EQ. Not too easy but not an infuriating grind either.

Just go over and take a look at the official boards and its quite apparent that almost all the newer members are ex WOW players, having been introduced to the genre by that game. Its funny when you see people trying to explain to them what a non instanced dungeon is like and they just can't grasp it. They think you need to "run" a dungeon and i've seen someone want "solo" or small grp dungeons instead of "group" dungeons etc. things usually pertaining to instances that they assume are inherent traits to all dungeons in general.

So yeah my point is just that WOW is indeed bringing these people to new games. Just look at these boards also, it seems like every day there are posts asking what the best MMO is right now or which one they should play etc.

Also what mechanics were you referring to in your post? Just wondering.

~Dunadurium

angerr · February 2006

Originally posted by Chieftan
Originally posted by angerr
also here is a recent post by brad that is relevant to this topic.....Gone are fears of market saturation. And personally, with Vanguard, I now have not just the 'old school' EQ, Daoc, etc. gamespace to appeal to with Vanguard, but now also a huge group of players newer to the MMOG gamespace. As I've posted many times in the recent past, if even only 5% or so of WoW gamers look to Vanguard for a more challenging and long term next MMOG and combine that with our original projections of how many subscribers we would attract, etc., we (MSFT and Sigil) are looking at some very nice numbers and quite a success.__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

That sounds good on paper but it doesn't look like that "trickle down" equation is working with other MMOs. It seems to be the opposite actually. Everquest shut down half it's servers a few months after WoW launched. EQ2 just closed 10 servers.

I'm very interested in Vanguard and I want it to succeed but I'm skeptical about his rehashing of gameplay mechanics that weren't too spiffy even in 1998. What I really want is a middle ground between WoW and the early days of EQ. Not too easy but not an infuriating grind either.

what is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.

but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.

as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.

i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!

wyzwun · February 2006

what is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.

but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.

as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.

i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!

I only speak for myself and what i like, to try and assume what other "people" enjoy well... its not my place or anyone else.

I am a hard core player but the truth is, hard core is a state of mind. VGSOH... is my game, if it is 20% of what we expect it to be, i am happy with that. Do i expect Brad to bend more then he should? yeah, do i expect him to sell out? I "hope" not... because thats what we are talking about. We try to word it nice but the real question is "will brad sell out".

MMO_Munk · February 2006

obey the smiley army.

VANGUARD FOR THE MOTHATRUCKIN WIN

With that being said. Yes I have to Agree with OP thats why this game drew me in so much, In fact i'm so drawn in I'm already in a guild for this game, lol yes call me a geek, its fine. Cause i have my girlfriend in the same guild as me also. -p BUT ANYWAYS. (yeah i know you all wish your girlfriends would play games with you)

This game has what all others LACK and thats why in my Opinion it will be such a success.

It has:

1. Meaningful Travel, Not boring.

2. Player Housing, a good player housing. Not a joke one like EverQuest 2. And a REVAMPED Fighting system.

3. GREAT Crafting system for once in an MMO Besides for SWG i did like that one alot too... But its not like SWG is going to be a threat to Vanguard anymore after it was raped by its own parent company.

4. Great choice of Races and Classes, each race adding specific bonuses. Not the oh it doesnt matter what race you are Ogre Wizard FOR THE WIN! GUYS! RIght? NO you tards. (EQ2)

5. And Finnaly, it has everything i ever wanted in an MMO. Player BOATS! HOUSING! CARTS?! HORSES!? PVP ON LAUNCH~!!! Rp -PVP SERVER FOR THE WIN! Sheesh, GREAT JOB DEV TEAM YOU HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK. I will be happy to see you ALL In game soon enough... Remember good things come to those that wait, and I have been waiting 3 years for this.

MMO_Munk · February 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun

what is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.

but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.

as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.

i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!

I only speak for myself and what i like, to try and assume what other "people" enjoy well... its not my place or anyone else.

I am a hard core player but the truth is, hard core is a state of mind. VGSOH... is my game, if it is 20% of what we expect it to be, i am happy with that. Do i expect Brad to bend more then he should? yeah, do i expect him to sell out? I "hope" not... because thats what we are talking about. We try to word it nice but the real question is "will brad sell out".

Brad WILL NOT SELL OUT, not this time, because MICROSOFT GAMING STUDIOS is backing him. Microsoft gaming studios, is an extension of Bill Gates, and everyone knows Bill Gates has more money than the whole country of Hati. Anyways Bill Gates is a Business man, he would just simply Buy out Brad if he saw, Brad thinking of selling his share to another company. Bill Gates would never allow something with his name brand slapped on it to have a bad name. So I have NO FEARS of anything bad happening.

Anyways if Brad does sell out, Bill would just call in his Sniper Squad =p Muharharharhahrhar.

Im going to hell.

angerr · February 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun
what is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.
but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.
as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.
i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!
I only speak for myself and what i like, to try and assume what other "people" enjoy well... its not my place or anyone else.
I am a hard core player but the truth is, hard core is a state of mind. VGSOH... is my game, if it is 20% of what we expect it to be, i am happy with that. Do i expect Brad to bend more then he should? yeah, do i expect him to sell out? I "hope" not... because thats what we are talking about. We try to word it nice but the real question is "will brad sell out".

I'm not trying to assume what people like, i am going on what people have liked for many of years. and i agree....i can only speak for myself.......does this mean vanguard will be successful? no not at all.

i was basically referring to people that think that the eq style of combat is old and that they think nobody wants that style of combat anymore, witch is not true. ::::02::

wyzwun · February 2006

Originally posted by angerr

Originally posted by wyzwun

what is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.
but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.
as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.
i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!

I only speak for myself and what i like, to try and assume what other "people" enjoy well... its not my place or anyone else.
I am a hard core player but the truth is, hard core is a state of mind. VGSOH... is my game, if it is 20% of what we expect it to be, i am happy with that. Do i expect Brad to bend more then he should? yeah, do i expect him to sell out? I "hope" not... because thats what we are talking about. We try to word it nice but the real question is "will brad sell out".

I'm not trying to assume what people like, i am going on what people have liked for many of years. and i agree....i can only speak for myself.......does this mean vanguard will be successful? no not at all.

i was basically referring to people that think that the eq style of combat is old and that they think nobody wants that style of combat anymore, witch is not true. ::::02::

I dont see how EQ's combat engine has really anything to do with what is being discussed. Since just about every game since eq has used that same "style of combat" i see no reason to think that consumers would not want such a combat engine in Vanguard. The thing is, I am an old schooler and frankly i would rather not have someone speak for me... since i myself fit into a container that you have arbitrarily created.

It is and has always been about the community. The feeling of achievement which can only be measured by the difficulty in which it took to gain (reason i choose to play a game "like" FFXI over a game "like" WoW).

Frankly, because i am frankly... frankly i have nothing against what youre saying... It is how its being said.

angerr · February 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun
Originally posted by angerr Originally posted by wyzwunwhat is wrong with eq's gameplay mechanics? doesn't wow have a similar combat system? rpg's have always been like that, its not a action fps its a rpg.but it is all about personal preference, some people would rather play a action mmog than a mmorpg and i can respect that. but eq,eq2,wow,gw, and a whole lot of other successful games have this style of gameplay and people do love it and always will love it.as far as eq closing when wow launched, yeah after being like 6 years old it finally had to close some servers. and eq2 IMO isn't as fun to play or as well made as the original eq or wow.i look for vanguard to be the "real" eq2 and if its not as successful as alot of people hope, oh well as long as i have fun in the game and it has a good community. and if it don't have that? well i guess i will be bored leveling up more alts in wow while i wait for something els LOL, but i have faith in sigil and vanguard....alot more faith than i have in soe that is for sure!
I only speak for myself and what i like, to try and assume what other "people" enjoy well... its not my place or anyone else.I am a hard core player but the truth is, hard core is a state of mind. VGSOH... is my game, if it is 20% of what we expect it to be, i am happy with that. Do i expect Brad to bend more then he should? yeah, do i expect him to sell out? I "hope" not... because thats what we are talking about. We try to word it nice but the real question is "will brad sell out". I'm not trying to assume what people like, i am going on what people have liked for many of years. and i agree....i can only speak for myself.......does this mean vanguard will be successful? no not at all.
i was basically referring to people that think that the eq style of combat is old and that they think nobody wants that style of combat anymore, witch is not true.
I dont see how EQ's combat engine has really anything to do with what is being discussed. Since just about every game since eq has used that same "style of combat" i see no reason to think that consumers would not want such a combat engine in Vanguard. The thing is, I am an old schooler and frankly i would rather not have someone speak for me... since i myself fit into a container that you have arbitrarily created.
It is and has always been about the community. The feeling of achievement which can only be measured by the difficulty in which it took to gain (reason i choose to play a game "like" FFXI over a game "like" WoW).
Frankly, because i am frankly... frankly i have nothing against what youre saying... It is how its being said.

lol calm down there big guy, i was replying to this guy...

I'm skeptical about his rehashing of gameplay mechanics that weren't too spiffy even in 1998

i am not speaking for you, i don't even know you. i was stating a fact....alot of games still use this style of gameplay, so common sense tells me people still like it.

i think you totally misunderstood what i was trying to say, i agree that every game has used this style of gameplay and that is exactly what i was pointing out. so i honestly don't see what you are getting at, so maybe you should go back and reread my post or maybe you should just let it go?

lol, i agree with every single thing you are saying and nowhere in my post did i ever say that people didn't want the eq style of gameplay.....i said the opposite actually, i think you are a bit confused my friend.

flan · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk
Lets take a look at somthing else my friends on WHY this game is so hyped. Basically this is the LAST hope to see a mmorpg released thats geared towards "harder" aspects such as the things I listed in my op. The genre is unfourtanly dying and newer releases are "toning" down mmorpgs. After Vanguard I really don't think we will see these features in another commercial geared mmorpg AGAIN. Heres the reason it doesnt SELL UNFOURTANLY. I used to love the classic days of EQ, Ultima online, and DAOC when things were tougher but nowadays theres way to much handholding.. so my friends VG is looking like the last chance for an industry break.

I thought the same thing. This is really the last chance for a hardcore MMO to come in market that is dominated by a softcore MMO(WoW). I really hope Vanguard succeds and has many years of good gaming because i'm really looking forward to it.

Bobiin · February 2006

Originally posted by Bahk

Yep, thats right an upcomming mmorpg thats NOT gunna follow the current aspects ofr mmorpgs (instancing, FAST lvl to the cap, no death penalty and EASY travel. I've been waiting to see the return of this for 3 years now ever since the good old days of EQ (pre-luclin) This is what we need. Im sick of flying on dragons to my destination in 4 minutes, im SICK of hitting the lvl cap in 2 months, im sick of INSTANCES, and im SICK of dying and not caring if I do. Remember the good old classic EQ days? This is the RETURN and my god we're here to stay.

Cheers!

Chieftan · February 2006

Originally posted by dunadurium
Originally posted by Chieftan
That sounds good on paper but it doesn't look like that "trickle down" equation is working with other MMOs. It seems to be the opposite actually. Everquest shut down half it's servers a few months after WoW launched. EQ2 just closed 10 servers.
I'm very interested in Vanguard and I want it to succeed but I'm skeptical about his rehashing of gameplay mechanics that weren't too spiffy even in 1998. What I really want is a middle ground between WoW and the early days of EQ. Not too easy but not an infuriating grind either.
Just go over and take a look at the official boards and its quite apparent that almost all the newer members are ex WOW players, having been introduced to the genre by that game. Its funny when you see people trying to explain to them what a non instanced dungeon is like and they just can't grasp it. They think you need to "run" a dungeon and i've seen someone want "solo" or small grp dungeons instead of "group" dungeons etc. things usually pertaining to instances that they assume are inherent traits to all dungeons in general.
So yeah my point is just that WOW is indeed bringing these people to new games. Just look at these boards also, it seems like every day there are posts asking what the best MMO is right now or which one they should play etc.
Also what mechanics were you referring to in your post? Just wondering.
~Dunadurium

Instancing was introduced in large part because people wanted to "do" dungeons. You know, just like the table top RPGs that EQ was based on? Before they put in instancing you'd zone into a dungeon and camp in one room, not moving around much at all and argue over spawns while waiting for repops. It was NOTHING like doing a dungeon in the true RPG games of old.

The dungeons as they were originally designed are to me an example of outdated gameplay mechanics. The whole dying in a dungeon aproximately 2 hours of travel away from your bind point is hopefully a thing of the past. Poorly balanced classes. There were huge gulfs in power between classes, especially when comparing casters to melees. As if to compensate for that, the best loot was for melees. Caster loot pretty much sucked until Brad hit the road.

And speaking of dungeons, they pretty much emptied out in the pre-50 level range after Kunark came out. Players could have kept going to dungeons but instead chose to hunt in Kunark's many outdoor zones because it was alot easier.

I could go on but to me the glaring example is Gates of Discord. A constant theme on message boards was that players wanted the "danger" back. They wanted to feel like they did when they first ran through haunted Kithicor. They wanted death to mean something and not have graveyards like in PoP.

The devs more or less delivered this with GoD and it wound up being a huge disaster. The beginning of the end for EQ actually.

So I'm a bit more than skeptical of players saying they want all these things when history's shown that what people are nostalgic for and what they actually want to repeat again are two different things.

n2sooners · February 2006

By the time GoD had come out, a majority of the players who liked a challenge had left. It is just proof that you can't go back. They could never undo what PoP (and to a lesser extend SoL) did to the game.

oakthornn · February 2006

Vanguard will definitely be what EQ Live should have been..Vets of EQ Live will understand what I mean and we are the ones who been following this game for yrs highly anticipating its release.. Vanguard should make alot of people happy with its content,storyline,and class diversity done correctly..

paade · February 2006

Vanguard breaking the current genre...how? To me it seems just another PvE game, i mean isnt that what every single current game is about, PvE? You can add lots of pretty details like "real" travelling and psionic (or whatever) class but it is still the same restricted player interaction, class dependent, phat lewt gathering carebear game like WoW & EQ (well, the front page anime girl does have great boobs so points for that one).

If youre really looking something thats out of the current genre, go look The Chronicle or Darkfall or Roma Victor. If you want more EQ clones then i guess Vanguard is for you.

Bahk · February 2006

Originally posted by paade
Vanguard breaking the current genre...how? To me it seems just another PvE game, i mean isnt that what every single current game is about, PvE? You can add lots of pretty details like "real" travelling and psionic (or whatever) class but it is still the same restricted player interaction, class dependent, phat lewt gathering carebear game like WoW & EQ (well, the front page anime girl does have great boobs so points for that one).If youre really looking something thats out of the current genre, go look The Chronicle or Darkfall or Roma Victor. If you want more EQ clones then i guess Vanguard is for you.

I think you may have took my op the wrong way, I didn't mean Vanguard is actually going to "revolutionize" the mmorpg genre or change it. What I ment is its breaking away from certain aspects in the current genre for instance: It will bring back hard travel, harder exp gain, NO instances, death penalty etc and it will still be a game thats out in stores with commercial sale value (100K+ subs). Sure The chronicle, Dark fall etc by small mmorpg companies will have great new features like permadeath etc but do you see them having over 5-8k subs? I dont think so.

paade · February 2006

[quote]Originally posted by Bahk

I think you may have took my op the wrong way, I didn't mean Vanguard is actually going to "revolutionize" the mmorpg genre or change it. What I ment is its breaking away from certain aspects in the current genre for instance: It will bring back hard travel, harder exp gain, NO instances, death penalty etc and it will still be a game thats out in stores with commercial sale value (100K+ subs). Sure The chronicle, Dark fall etc by small mmorpg companies will have great new features like permadeath etc but do you see them having over 5-8k subs? I dont think so.[/b][/quote]

lol, Darkfall Community already has 26k people and the game isnt even in beta yet. Im 110% sure that DF will go over 100k subs easy (not so sure about The Chronicle). All those features you listed, DF has ALL of them, only made better (well, of course this is a matter of taste). And no, i havent played DF so i write only about what theyve promised ::::39::

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Finally a mmorpg breaking the CURRENT GENRE.

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