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Combat strategy and tactics..

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

I think this is the weakest part of the game...

 

Where in a comparable game like GW2 charcaters have dozens of viable strategies to build around.. (Buffs-debuffs-CC) much of that depth somehow seems lacking in ESO, it almost feels like a full hack and slash game to me.

There is way less strategy and micro management involved then in other games. Some may like this straightforward approach, i think its a sad thing..   

 

Also the lack of skills, mostly removes tactical thinking in applying the right strategies on the battlefield, because there are so few skills that they in general are part of a single strategy. 

 

Its not that i dont like the game, but when i play it for longer stretches, i start missing the combat depth of other MMO's

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843

    PvE is easy. Come to Cyrodiil and see if you hack and slash tactics work. Builds you see will make you head spin.

     

    Sorry OP. Lack of skills seriously? You may have a lack of imagination. Everyday I run into builds I've never seen before. This is no exaggeration. You define your role in ESO.

     

    What you've said couldn't be further from what I've experienced. Yeah I'll just leave it at that. 

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by bcbully

    PvE is easy. Come to Cyrodiil and see if you hack and slash tactics work. Builds you see will make you head spin.

     

    Sorry OP. Lack of skills seriously? You may have a lack of imagination. Everyday I run into builds I've never seen before. This is no exaggeration. You define your role in ESO.

     

    What you've said couldn't be further from what I've experienced. Yeah I'll just leave it at that. 

    Sure... Many builds, but no real depth in the combat system...   I can make dozens of builds that just work well, but in the end all do the same thing and on top of that will be very repetitive to play...

     

    just a personal opinion offcourse... But i prefer the depth of Gw2, with actions and counter actions..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AsalzSyAsalzSy Member UncommonPosts: 230

    I think is the other way around.. the fact that in eso you never know what skills your enemy have (builds) and the fact that in eso you have to think more about your actions because of the management of resources such as mana, stamina,ultimate, block, dodge,active buffs & light/heavy attacks (depth) makes the eso combat for me better..

     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by AsalzSy

    I think is the other way around.. the fact that in eso you never know what skills your enemy have (builds) and the fact that in eso you have to think more about your actions because of the management of resources such as mana, stamina,ultimate, block, dodge,active buffs & light/heavy attacks (depth) makes the eso combat for me better..

     

    Did you ever do any real budo, kickboxing or swordfighting combat?  Thats where you are constantly trying to predict your opponents moves to gain a tactical advantage..   Not being able to predict what comes next takes out a whole layer of tactical gameplay...  It simplyfies things..

     

    again, my opinion..  

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AsalzSyAsalzSy Member UncommonPosts: 230
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by AsalzSy

    I think is the other way around.. the fact that in eso you never know what skills your enemy have (builds) and the fact that in eso you have to think more about your actions because of the management of resources such as mana, stamina,ultimate, block, dodge,active buffs & light/heavy attacks (depth) makes the eso combat for me better..

     

    Did you ever do any real budo, kickboxing or swordfighting combat?  Thats where you are constantly trying to predict your opponents moves to gain a tactical advantage..   Not being able to predict what comes next takes out a whole layer of tactical gameplay...  It simplyfies things..

     

    again, my opinion..  

    yeah we say the same thing..in eso you are constantly trying to predict your opponents moves..in gw2 when you fight a tank  with conditions you know that the only thing you have to do is clean conditions and attack (simplifies things)..

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by bcbully

    PvE is easy. Come to Cyrodiil and see if you hack and slash tactics work. Builds you see will make you head spin.

     

    Sorry OP. Lack of skills seriously? You may have a lack of imagination. Everyday I run into builds I've never seen before. This is no exaggeration. You define your role in ESO.

     

    What you've said couldn't be further from what I've experienced. Yeah I'll just leave it at that. 

    Sure... Many builds, but no real depth in the combat system...   I can make dozens of builds that just work well, but in the end all do the same thing and on top of that will be very repetitive to play...

     

    just a personal opinion offcourse... But i prefer the depth of Gw2, with actions and counter actions..

    I play both GW2 and ESO and I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say... maybe an example of both using specific abilities that show more strategy and tactics and less strategy and tactics would help...

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  • possessed1possessed1 Member UncommonPosts: 36
    I see what your saying about 'real' fighting. Agreed that real combat is about reading your opponent, but it's more about getting right of way and/or getting your opponent out of position -- especially with sword combat, but hand to hand applies also. There's too many levels, arcs, angles to translate into a game though (real combat basically is a 3 dimensional sphere). But I see what your sayin' and I think all the games with limited hotbars have that '4 trick pony' feel to them. ESO, GW2, TSW, etc. Especially when they limit what you can do by what weapon you have in your hand. You see a guy with 2hander and you know he's gonna do the bash combo that works. You find a combo that works in game and the AI won't ever learn from it, keeps doing the same thing. So you don't have to change it up. You try doing the same combo on a real person more than twice and they're gonna pick up on it, and counter it.
  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    I have played both ESO & GW2. Enjoy both of them but prefer ESO just because you have the Tank / Healer / DPS role.

    I think GW2 is a great game but i have never found the combat to be "deep". If anything it is too simple without a defined role.

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Yea both of those games are really good.  But I do find ESO combat a lot more challenging and fun.  Don't forget it was GW2 who made strafe a completely useless keybind.  I have posted on their forums many times asking for more control of my character and they never gave it to me.  In ESO I have complete control of the character.  That to me is more then enough to make me happy.  I also do not like that fact that it is encouraged in GW2 for 100 people to all stand on the same exact spot for a power buff.  To me ESO is just a better game because you have people spread out fighting instead of everyone sitting on top of each other running through other zergs.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    i like the combat in eso and GW2 but eso's pve is just more fun for me.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    I have played both ESO & GW2. Enjoy both of them but prefer ESO just because you have the Tank / Healer / DPS role.

    I think GW2 is a great game but i have never found the combat to be "deep". If anything it is too simple without a defined role.

    Its deeper than ESO, ESO si simple tank/dps/heal with predefined roles.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by filmoret
    Yea both of those games are really good.  But I do find ESO combat a lot more challenging and fun.  Don't forget it was GW2 who made strafe a completely useless keybind.  I have posted on their forums many times asking for more control of my character and they never gave it to me.  In ESO I have complete control of the character.  That to me is more then enough to make me happy.  I also do not like that fact that it is encouraged in GW2 for 100 people to all stand on the same exact spot for a power buff.  To me ESO is just a better game because you have people spread out fighting instead of everyone sitting on top of each other running through other zergs.

    Really, so whats so much better about "being spread out" than "not being spread out".

    In fact being spread out actually feels much more zergy.

    Just look at combat formations of old and spot which are "being spread out"

    "Spread out" vs. "one spot"

    I know which one I want to be ;)

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by filmoret
    Yea both of those games are really good.  But I do find ESO combat a lot more challenging and fun.  Don't forget it was GW2 who made strafe a completely useless keybind.  I have posted on their forums many times asking for more control of my character and they never gave it to me.  In ESO I have complete control of the character.  That to me is more then enough to make me happy.  I also do not like that fact that it is encouraged in GW2 for 100 people to all stand on the same exact spot for a power buff.  To me ESO is just a better game because you have people spread out fighting instead of everyone sitting on top of each other running through other zergs.

    Really, so whats so much better about "being spread out" than "not being spread out".

    In fact being spread out actually feels much more zergy.

    Just look at combat formations of old and spot which are "being spread out"

    "Spread out" vs. "one spot"

    I know which one I want to be ;)

     I don't get what you are saying by that video they aren't standing on the same spot its humanly impossible.  That video is closer to what ESO combat is like.  I have placed myself in front of someone who is close to death to intercept their damage.  You cannot do this in GW2.  Basically in GW2 you just got a huge blob of players all standing in the exact same spot running through people.  You do not see this in ESO you have the two armies come together and start fighting spread out like you see in League of Legends but with 100vs100 instead of 5v5.  You try to pick out the one who got too close or your ulty is ready so you  initiate then try to roll out before you die.  This doesn't happen in the large scale fights of GW2 they just run through turn around run back through with all the players sitting on top of each other.  You are speaking like a person who never played in the zergs of ESO.

    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by filmoret
    Originally posted by Malabooga
    Originally posted by filmoret
    Yea both of those games are really good.  But I do find ESO combat a lot more challenging and fun.  Don't forget it was GW2 who made strafe a completely useless keybind.  I have posted on their forums many times asking for more control of my character and they never gave it to me.  In ESO I have complete control of the character.  That to me is more then enough to make me happy.  I also do not like that fact that it is encouraged in GW2 for 100 people to all stand on the same exact spot for a power buff.  To me ESO is just a better game because you have people spread out fighting instead of everyone sitting on top of each other running through other zergs.

    Really, so whats so much better about "being spread out" than "not being spread out".

    In fact being spread out actually feels much more zergy.

    Just look at combat formations of old and spot which are "being spread out"

    "Spread out" vs. "one spot"

    I know which one I want to be ;)

     I don't get what you are saying by that video they aren't standing on the same spot its humanly impossible.  That video is closer to what ESO combat is like.  I have placed myself in front of someone who is close to death to intercept their damage.  You cannot do this in GW2.  Basically in GW2 you just got a huge blob of players all standing in the exact same spot running through people.  You do not see this in ESO you have the two armies come together and start fighting spread out like you see in League of Legends but with 100vs100 instead of 5v5.  You try to pick out the one who got too close or your ulty is ready so you  initiate then try to roll out before you die.  This doesn't happen in the large scale fights of GW2 they just run through turn around run back through with all the players sitting on top of each other.  You are speaking like a person who never played in the zergs of ESO.

    GW2 is much more representative of that link, sorry. Is it perfect? No. I dont think you really played GW2 very much. Especially in organized manner.

    All this talking about "spreading out" (in general) is.....not really warranted. Thats actually ZERG way to fight.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682

    I played both but pretty much left GW2 because of the combat.

    Any game where you can press auto-attack and win almost every fight is a game I'm not interested in playing.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • abnesherabnesher Member UncommonPosts: 112

    PvE Combat in ESO might be the very thing, that so far is keeping me in the game. You really have to be quick on your toes to avoid getting killed. An element of danger that has almost disappeared from MMO's.

    Strategy, placement and handling of skills are crucial if I dont wanna end up dead by the feet of trashmobs. I actually have to watch my beer intake while playing ESO ;) Numerous times a "named" or quest-boss mob has killed me, because I fought it the wrong way or didnt pay attention. After ressing and trying a different approach I have experienced killing the bugger with almost no healthloss. And most of the time the correct way to kill a certain mob isnt given at the start of the fight...at least for "special" mobs.

    This danger and the ensuing adrenaline is a huge part in my interest in playing the game.

    For combat, some of the same things can be said about GW2, I just feel that I am more connected to the controls of my ESO character than my GW2 character. I find ESO combat to be very hard, and this makes for a bit more fun experience. Ofcourse I might simply just suck at the game...

     

    I havent tried PvP, as this isnt an important part of my MMO'ing, but I plan to check it out, as it seems to be a large part of the endgame gameplay.

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