So looking at the vid of the tech demo, which looks nice though still not up to the standards of Bless, Black Desert,, Blade n Soul and even ESO. How come in the vids posted of Crowfall so far the graphics look so awful. Are they likely to get better as it gets closer to launch, so they at least just look 8yrs out of date or are they going to remain yet another cheap western attempt at an MMO.
Originally posted by Daemonweaver So looking at the vid of the tech demo, which looks nice though still not up to the standards of Bless, Black Desert,, Blade n Soul and even ESO. How come in the vids posted of Crowfall so far the graphics look so awful. Are they likely to get better as it gets closer to launch, so they at least just look 8yrs out of date or are they going to remain yet another cheap western attempt at an MMO.
In what way do the graphics look awful exactly? I definitely see some issues that point towards a lack of polish that I would expect to see in a game that's in it's initial funding phase. I'm just trying to gauge what your measuring stick is, exactly. Let's not forget about the amazing Camelot Unchained Tech Demo like "WHOA! I wonder which way someone's going to walk next!" Or are we talking about comparing it to a game with realistic graphics versus stylized? Or are we talking about a game that's in early development versus one near release? Or are we talking about a game that's western versus the typical eastern MMO?
Just not sure what the exact issue is you're seeing. It will undoubtedly get better closer to launch, but the art style itself isn't going to change.
I like the style of Crowfall, from the little we've seen, and hopefully the Unity engine is up to the task of massive conflict, featuring destructible structures, without grinding to a halt.
Isnt Unity 5 another one of those browser type engines, sounds like Crowfall is not going to be just a heavily instanced lobby game, but also a browser game too... what an awesome combination that is
Isnt Unity 5 another one of those browser type engines, sounds like Crowfall is not going to be just a heavily instanced lobby game, but also a browser game too... what an awesome combination that is
Not sure what you mean by "browser-type engines". It does offer the option for browser deployments, yes. However, it also offers the ability to deploy for PC client, Linux, MAC, iOS, Android, Playstation, XBox. I doubt you'd see this on browser, though. I'm assuming the assets will be too heavy.
I joked about tablets in an earlier thread, too, though. If nothing else, if done right it'll be easy to create something that's multi-platform. If that's not considered up-front, though, then it'll be just as bound to PC as any other game.
Edit: Kidding aside, though, this could make a good console game...... just sayin.
Originally posted by JamesGoblin Not exactly on topic, but maybe someone will find this interesting - live Guineacan modeling .
I did. Modeling is always fun, but it's one of those things to where you have to just stop at some point and release your product to the world or you will find yourself pulling and pushing vertices indefinitely.
Also I prefer Maya but it looks like he is using 3DSMax, though not 100% sure. I have 3DSMax 2011, but his looks newer with some different icons. I'm actually surprised Autodesk hasn't merged Max and Maya yet into one product.
Originally posted by JamesGoblin Not exactly on topic, but maybe someone will find this interesting - live Guineacan modeling .
I did. Modeling is always fun, but it's one of those things to where you have to just stop at some point and release your product to the world or you will find yourself pulling and pushing vertices indefinitely.
Also I prefer Maya but it looks like he is using 3DSMax, though not 100% sure. I have 3DSMax 2011, but his looks newer with some different icons. I'm actually surprised Autodesk hasn't merged Max and Maya yet into one product.
I remember, during studies, watching over my roommate`s shoulder as he was doing his magic in Maya (after graduating he went on to work in gaming industry). He also suffered from "no, this is not perfect yet" syndrome - I can still see him, with cigarette in his hand, trying for hours to finally do the final "final touch", and then just continuing...
By the way, he is guilty for showing me Warcraft 3 - after that I found out about WoW (I would probably be clueless about MMOs otherwise) and thats how it began...
Originally posted by Daemonweaver So looking at the vid of the tech demo, which looks nice though still not up to the standards of Bless, Black Desert,, Blade n Soul and even ESO. How come in the vids posted of Crowfall so far the graphics look so awful. Are they likely to get better as it gets closer to launch, so they at least just look 8yrs out of date or are they going to remain yet another cheap western attempt at an MMO.
While surely things will improve, the overall style will not change. What has been shown is their first attempt at characters, mobs, lands, etc. Very early stages.
If you prefer more realism and polygons, it isn't going that route. However not sure that it looks "awful" compared to BD or whatever. Simply different style. Like saying Mario looks awful compared to Destiny or another unrelated comparison.
They are taking a lot of inspiration from board/strategy games and last time I checked, their graphics are horrible
However, for all the pretty close up detail that Black Desert has, this looks 100% awful to me
Why are you all impressed about unity? If you compare Unity/Flash/Java with language like C++ those 3 are just TERRIBLE performance wise. Sure they allow devs to code faster, allows to game to run on multiple platforms and so on.. All of those are just things that bring benefit only for the DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER not for players.
Originally posted by Masa1 Why are you all impressed about unity? If you compare Unity/Flash/Java with language like C++ those 3 are just TERRIBLE performance wise. Sure they allow devs to code faster, allows to game to run on multiple platforms and so on.. All of those are just things that bring benefit only for the DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER not for players.
Sure, but 9 times out of 10 you don't need. In addition to you, you're making the assumption that the developer has an idea about how to actually take advantage of those performance savings, which is a big stretch. Additionally, you're assuming that the developer doesn't do something stupid that compromises the performance savings in other ways, which is also a stretch.
Yes, you're right, in a vacuum C++ would outperform. However, the fact of the matter is that there are humans of varying skill levels coding these projects which leads to varying levels of quality and optimization.
I enjoy all of the theory crafting, ideas and such about this game. Played Shadowbane and others from this producer but in today's day and age just not digging the graphics.
As a game designer, I have to say Unity5 is the shit. Now there are tons of UE4 Fanboys who will say unity is shit, but that only because they dont know how to code without their pretty node based scripting in blueprints. In any case, I'm happy to hear that they're using Unity5 as it has always been my choice to use Unity and I feel you cant go wrong with it. Particularly with their new PBR, and Global Illumination.
Originally posted by Masa1 Why are you all impressed about unity? If you compare Unity/Flash/Java with language like C++ those 3 are just TERRIBLE performance wise. Sure they allow devs to code faster, allows to game to run on multiple platforms and so on.. All of those are just things that bring benefit only for the DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER not for players.
Performance using C++ fully optimized just barely beats out C# fully optimized, Not anything noticable anyway. When it comes down to it yes, its harder to make C# work well, but thats part of the challenge, and bad code is bad code. Good code is good code. Whether its good or bad is up to the developers. Unity can keep up with any other engine on the market, if not work better due to Editor Extentions etc in the asset store which are completely community driven.
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
Isnt Unity 5 another one of those browser type engines, sounds like Crowfall is not going to be just a heavily instanced lobby game, but also a browser game too... what an awesome combination that is
Hang on a second, I never got the impression that it was going to be a heavily instance lobby game. Could you explain how that was concluded?
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
Go to the bottom, click featured games made in unity.
Wow ... I've heard of only one of those games (edit: 2). Some look cool though. Looks like a great platform for indie development. Tempted to try Ori though someday.
My only concern is if it is a wise choice for a mass pvp mmo game.
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
Go to the bottom, click featured games made in unity.
Wow ... I've heard of only one of those games (edit: 2). Some look cool though. Looks like a great platform for indie development. Tempted to try Ori though someday.
My only concern is if it is a wise choice for a mass pvp mmo game.
Unfortunately it is not. It's not a real event based engine written in C++ like UDK. It's good for 2/2.5D games with limited size. It's good for 3D games with limited areas/size. It's not able to cope with the load of full open world MMO requirements.
Don't get me wrong, Unity has it's place and Ori is a good example what you can do with it. But AAA MMO quality is not something it can deliver, it's about as good as Hero engine in that respect and that one is completely unusable for anything serious or without a total re-write lie SWTOR did.
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
Go to the bottom, click featured games made in unity.
Wow ... I've heard of only one of those games (edit: 2). Some look cool though. Looks like a great platform for indie development. Tempted to try Ori though someday.
My only concern is if it is a wise choice for a mass pvp mmo game.
Unfortunately it is not. It's not a real event based engine written in C++ like UDK. It's good for 2/2.5D games with limited size. It's good for 3D games with limited areas/size. It's not able to cope with the load of full open world MMO requirements.
Don't get me wrong, Unity has it's place and Ori is a good example what you can do with it. But AAA MMO quality is not something it can deliver, it's about as good as Hero engine in that respect and that one is completely unusable for anything serious or without a total re-write lie SWTOR did.
I am also worried about this, the large scale PvP performance is crucial for CF. That topic is typically ignored by pro-Unity folks, they prefer to show wonderful landscapes and all kinds of shiny but-not-so-MMO stuff. (And BTW, Ori is lovely indeed ). Just to clarify, I am neither pro not anti-U but just curious about the PvP performance, and based on what I`ve read so far Unity 5 might actually be the best choice for team with this budget and schedule.
That being said, I would be thankful if someone more knowledgeable than I am (what I know of Unity 5 is based on 15 minutes of Googling) would comment on the following:
1) When asked about Unity 5 PvP performance, ACE programmer said this. Note that it was the second question asked (amongst the expected bunch of WOW!s and Nice!s), but he answered the 1st one and then went on to 3rd etc. The question was repeated by some other guy, again - no answer, and only when the first guy asked again (that is, third time overall) the answer came.
What I am reading from this reply is that they probably didn`t have any large scale testing but they hope that Unity 5 improvements will prove sufficient!?
Originally posted by Masa1 Why are you all impressed about unity? If you compare Unity/Flash/Java with language like C++ those 3 are just TERRIBLE performance wise. Sure they allow devs to code faster, allows to game to run on multiple platforms and so on.. All of those are just things that bring benefit only for the DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER not for players.
Unity is written in c++
I understand you just know nothing about programming, it's ok. Unity is horrible performance-wise when people do not know how to program. Which unfortunately happens a lot nowadays since these engines are catered more towards content creators than programmers. Yet a good coder can make magic with Unity.
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
Go to the bottom, click featured games made in unity.
Wow ... I've heard of only one of those games (edit: 2). Some look cool though. Looks like a great platform for indie development. Tempted to try Ori though someday.
My only concern is if it is a wise choice for a mass pvp mmo game.
Unfortunately it is not. It's not a real event based engine written in C++ like UDK. It's good for 2/2.5D games with limited size. It's good for 3D games with limited areas/size. It's not able to cope with the load of full open world MMO requirements.
Don't get me wrong, Unity has it's place and Ori is a good example what you can do with it. But AAA MMO quality is not something it can deliver, it's about as good as Hero engine in that respect and that one is completely unusable for anything serious or without a total re-write lie SWTOR did.
I am also worried about this, the large scale PvP performance is crucial for CF. That topic is typically ignored by pro-Unity folks, they prefer to show wonderful landscapes and all kinds of shiny but-not-so-MMO stuff. (And BTW, Ori is lovely indeed ). Just to clarify, I am neither pro not anti-U but just curious about the PvP performance, and based on what I`ve read so far Unity 5 might actually be the best choice for team with this budget and schedule.
That being said, I would be thankful if someone more knowledgeable than I am (what I know of Unity 5 is based on 15 minutes of Googling) would comment on the following:
1) When asked about Unity 5 PvP performance, ACE programmer said this. Note that it was the second question asked (amongst the expected bunch of WOW!s and Nice!s), but he answered the 1st one and then went on to 3rd etc. The question was repeated by some other guy, again - no answer, and only when the first guy asked again (that is, third time overall) the answer came.
What I am reading from this reply is that they probably didn`t have any large scale testing but they hope that Unity 5 improvements will prove sufficient!?
I doubt we will see huge battles in CF, I'm sure they are going to drop the bomb that the campaigns will be capped at like 50-60 players after the KS is done. I don't think Unity can do all the twitch based PvP in a huge scale without falling on its face.
Comments
Looks like a nice engine suitable for this type of game *thumbs up*
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Interesting.... So I guess that means that publishing to MAC and Linux clients should be less of a pain....
iOS? Android?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Interesting indeed - here is a brief demo of Unity 5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV-224nMwN8
In what way do the graphics look awful exactly? I definitely see some issues that point towards a lack of polish that I would expect to see in a game that's in it's initial funding phase. I'm just trying to gauge what your measuring stick is, exactly. Let's not forget about the amazing Camelot Unchained Tech Demo like "WHOA! I wonder which way someone's going to walk next!" Or are we talking about comparing it to a game with realistic graphics versus stylized? Or are we talking about a game that's in early development versus one near release? Or are we talking about a game that's western versus the typical eastern MMO?
Just not sure what the exact issue is you're seeing. It will undoubtedly get better closer to launch, but the art style itself isn't going to change.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Style > polygon count.
I like the style of Crowfall, from the little we've seen, and hopefully the Unity engine is up to the task of massive conflict, featuring destructible structures, without grinding to a halt.
Isnt Unity 5 another one of those browser type engines, sounds like Crowfall is not going to be just a heavily instanced lobby game, but also a browser game too... what an awesome combination that is
Not sure what you mean by "browser-type engines". It does offer the option for browser deployments, yes. However, it also offers the ability to deploy for PC client, Linux, MAC, iOS, Android, Playstation, XBox. I doubt you'd see this on browser, though. I'm assuming the assets will be too heavy.
I joked about tablets in an earlier thread, too, though. If nothing else, if done right it'll be easy to create something that's multi-platform. If that's not considered up-front, though, then it'll be just as bound to PC as any other game.
Edit: Kidding aside, though, this could make a good console game...... just sayin.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I did. Modeling is always fun, but it's one of those things to where you have to just stop at some point and release your product to the world or you will find yourself pulling and pushing vertices indefinitely.
Also I prefer Maya but it looks like he is using 3DSMax, though not 100% sure. I have 3DSMax 2011, but his looks newer with some different icons. I'm actually surprised Autodesk hasn't merged Max and Maya yet into one product.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I remember, during studies, watching over my roommate`s shoulder as he was doing his magic in Maya (after graduating he went on to work in gaming industry). He also suffered from "no, this is not perfect yet" syndrome - I can still see him, with cigarette in his hand, trying for hours to finally do the final "final touch", and then just continuing...
By the way, he is guilty for showing me Warcraft 3 - after that I found out about WoW (I would probably be clueless about MMOs otherwise) and thats how it began...
While surely things will improve, the overall style will not change. What has been shown is their first attempt at characters, mobs, lands, etc. Very early stages.
If you prefer more realism and polygons, it isn't going that route. However not sure that it looks "awful" compared to BD or whatever. Simply different style. Like saying Mario looks awful compared to Destiny or another unrelated comparison.
They are taking a lot of inspiration from board/strategy games and last time I checked, their graphics are horrible
However, for all the pretty close up detail that Black Desert has, this looks 100% awful to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn1voEtFV5M&t=35
Sure, but 9 times out of 10 you don't need. In addition to you, you're making the assumption that the developer has an idea about how to actually take advantage of those performance savings, which is a big stretch. Additionally, you're assuming that the developer doesn't do something stupid that compromises the performance savings in other ways, which is also a stretch.
Yes, you're right, in a vacuum C++ would outperform. However, the fact of the matter is that there are humans of varying skill levels coding these projects which leads to varying levels of quality and optimization.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I enjoy all of the theory crafting, ideas and such about this game. Played Shadowbane and others from this producer but in today's day and age just not digging the graphics.
my 2 pennys.
Z.
J. B.
Performance using C++ fully optimized just barely beats out C# fully optimized, Not anything noticable anyway. When it comes down to it yes, its harder to make C# work well, but thats part of the challenge, and bad code is bad code. Good code is good code. Whether its good or bad is up to the developers. Unity can keep up with any other engine on the market, if not work better due to Editor Extentions etc in the asset store which are completely community driven.
J. B.
Additionally theres alot of misinformation on unity, so I'm just going to link this here to show you guys some games that have been developed using unity.
http://unity3d.com/showcase/gallery
Go to the bottom, click featured games made in unity.
J. B.
Hang on a second, I never got the impression that it was going to be a heavily instance lobby game. Could you explain how that was concluded?
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Wow ... I've heard of only one of those games (edit: 2). Some look cool though. Looks like a great platform for indie development. Tempted to try Ori though someday.
My only concern is if it is a wise choice for a mass pvp mmo game.
You stay sassy!
Unfortunately it is not. It's not a real event based engine written in C++ like UDK. It's good for 2/2.5D games with limited size. It's good for 3D games with limited areas/size. It's not able to cope with the load of full open world MMO requirements.
Don't get me wrong, Unity has it's place and Ori is a good example what you can do with it. But AAA MMO quality is not something it can deliver, it's about as good as Hero engine in that respect and that one is completely unusable for anything serious or without a total re-write lie SWTOR did.
I am also worried about this, the large scale PvP performance is crucial for CF. That topic is typically ignored by pro-Unity folks, they prefer to show wonderful landscapes and all kinds of shiny but-not-so-MMO stuff. (And BTW, Ori is lovely indeed
). Just to clarify, I am neither pro not anti-U but just curious about the PvP performance, and based on what I`ve read so far Unity 5 might actually be the best choice for team with this budget and schedule.
That being said, I would be thankful if someone more knowledgeable than I am (what I know of Unity 5 is based on 15 minutes of Googling) would comment on the following:
1) When asked about Unity 5 PvP performance, ACE programmer said this. Note that it was the second question asked (amongst the expected bunch of WOW!s and Nice!s), but he answered the 1st one and then went on to 3rd etc. The question was repeated by some other guy, again - no answer, and only when the first guy asked again (that is, third time overall) the answer came.
What I am reading from this reply is that they probably didn`t have any large scale testing but they hope that Unity 5 improvements will prove sufficient!?
2) Another "anti-Unity" comment I`d like to see clarified is "...the massive frame-rate drops when multiple entities appear on the screen..." That post also contains some other interesting points...Maybe he simply had bad experience with Unity 4 in mind?
Unity is written in c++
I understand you just know nothing about programming, it's ok. Unity is horrible performance-wise when people do not know how to program. Which unfortunately happens a lot nowadays since these engines are catered more towards content creators than programmers. Yet a good coder can make magic with Unity.
I doubt we will see huge battles in CF, I'm sure they are going to drop the bomb that the campaigns will be capped at like 50-60 players after the KS is done. I don't think Unity can do all the twitch based PvP in a huge scale without falling on its face.