That's what all the gaming sites are who recruit new people to Kickstarter through advertisments are. They're the members.
With money from the bottom of the pyramid, the backers.
As far as the argument, "backers don't benefit financially, so it's not a pyramid scheme". Many sects and religions like scientology are pyramid schemes, and have been convicted for being pyramid schemes, financial gain isn't a requirement, some pyramid schemes use religious enlightenment as incentive, others use blackmail, it doesn't need to be financial.
Advertising isn't a person.
The only way Scientology is like a pyramid scheme is when it's actually like a pyramid scheme. You can go here and search "pyramid" to see that the only time pyramid scheme is mentioned is regarding members getting a commission for recruiting new members, who all give about 10% of their income to the religion.
How much evidence (including evidence coming from topics like Scientology that you brought up yourself) will it take before you realize you're wrong?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Perhaps he means pyramid scheme, not in the traditional sense, but that he perceives there to be a scheme, and has expressed it in a triangle graph. Both pyramid schemes. Different meanings.
Originally posted by superstarman22 Originally posted by mmoguy43 The developers are putting their careers on the line. That's rather good accountability.
That is true, but - If they skate away with $30m for delivering vaporware, the only career they have to worry about is golf :P
If they raise that much it would be based on how good they are or how they are as developers, not their skill at golf
ya I hear you.
But I meant golf, because they'd never have to work another day in their lives
Originally posted by superstarman22 Perhaps he means pyramid scheme, not in the traditional sense, but that he perceives there to be a scheme, and has expressed it in a triangle graph. Both pyramid schemes. Different meanings.
He's free to call it a scam or a scheme all he wants. It's highly unlikely for high-profile kickstarter campaigns run by experienced developers, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
But he can't call it a pyramid scheme, because that already has a specific established definition which is not at all like kickstarter projects.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"Please give us money so that we can buy more ads in order to raise more money."
I understand why they do it, as with rare exceptions, you have to advertise a product to get people to buy it. And I certainly don't blame this site for taking the money for ads that are undeniably gaming-related. But that doesn't mean I have to like this use of kickstarter.
Playing devil's advocate in your thread here (though I have no problem with kickstarter) doesn't any business use its resources to create ads so that people will flock to their company and products.
And any money raised from kickstarter, even if they didn't put advertisements on sites right now, would still go to advertisments about their product.
Assuming that they are using their own money for these ads would it be better if they weren't making their goal but thought that broadening the message would bring in supporters?
Having said all this, I am not a backer of crowfall though I like some of their ideas.
And come to think of it, non-profits take out ads asking for people to give them money so that they can fulfill their mission all the time.
Of course some would say "but they are non-profits" but that doesn't change that they still need to operate in the black like any company.
The developers of crowfall know that they will make their kickstarter and then some. They just using what funds they now have at their disposal to buff up that kickstarter pot. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. And remember, it doesn't matter that people don't like kickstarter as their message is only for people who do like kickstarter and who might give money.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by superstarman22 Perhaps he means pyramid scheme, not in the traditional sense, but that he perceives there to be a scheme, and has expressed it in a triangle graph. Both pyramid schemes. Different meanings.
He's free to call it a scam or a scheme all he wants. It's highly unlikely for high-profile kickstarter campaigns run by experienced developers, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
But he can't call it a pyramid scheme, because that already has a specific established definition which is not at all like kickstarter projects.
Originally posted by Horusra but the only way people will know they exist is to advertise......or do you want to keep it a secret only spread through word of mouth?
So with all the free articles, and announcements on Crowfall over the last month your still going with the no one will know about it because its a well kept secret card???????
Or is the truth more that the game can't stand on its own merits without thousands of dollars worth of full pages all over the internet forcing attention to it?
Originally posted by Horusra but the only way people will know they exist is to advertise......or do you want to keep it a secret only spread through word of mouth?
So with all the free articles, and announcements on Crowfall over the last month your still going with the no one will know about it because its a well kept secret card???????
Or is the truth more that the game can't stand on its own merits without thousands of dollars worth of full pages all over the internet forcing attention to it?
I've heard that this Kim Kardashian lady is keener!
The thing to not forget, is that Kickstarter is not some benevolent charity: they take what? 7% or 7.5% off the top from every project that is successfully launched?
So KS uses a piece of their cut of previous KS money, to generate more through future KS projects (if they are even the ones buying the space).
Regardless, the people running KS are in it for the money like anyone else.
The thing to not forget, is that Kickstarter is not some benevolent charity: they take what? 7% or 7.5% off the top from every project that is successfully launched?So KS uses a piece of their cut of previous KS money, to generate more through future KS projects (if they are even the ones buying the space).Regardless, the people running KS are in it for the money like anyone else.
wowza. That had not occured to me at all... infact I was not aware they took a cut... makes a lot more sense now.... I guess I'm still seeing the world through the pre dot com bubble burst when money online was made through banner clicks?
that is a serious amount of money now that it hits me.... forget starting a kickstarter to get rich.... I need to start a kickstarter to get rich!
The thing to not forget, is that Kickstarter is not some benevolent charity: they take what? 7% or 7.5% off the top from every project that is successfully launched?
They take a bit over 8%: 5% for using Kickstarter and payment processing fee of 3% + 0,20$/backer.
Originally posted by Horusra but the only way people will know they exist is to advertise......or do you want to keep it a secret only spread through word of mouth?
So with all the free articles, and announcements on Crowfall over the last month your still going with the no one will know about it because its a well kept secret card???????
Or is the truth more that the game can't stand on its own merits without thousands of dollars worth of full pages all over the internet forcing attention to it?
Yeah, just look at WoW, they advertise in obscene amount, their game cant really stand on its own, logic, right.
Man, if soemone is so unaware of good busienss practices. I bet you are one of those "good product will sell itself".
No it wont, i dare you to make good product and leave it in your bedroom to see if it sells itself rofl
Its good thing you guys are not in charge of...welll...anything really lol
I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but i see people will defend anything these days. It's just another reason to not trust projects on KS that much, which is a shame to other legit developers.
Originally posted by Timesplit I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but i see people will defend anything these days. It's just another reason to not trust projects on KS that much, which is a shame to other legit developers.
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Marketing plays an important role in every MMO's lifecycle. Someone who runs an MMO Kickstarter without doing marketing before and during the KS push probably would be better off not being in charge of an MMO project, because he is helping to kill his own project.
That said, I don't give money to bigger companies on KS, they have other avenues of securing funding. If they want me to invest, then they should give me shares. That's how investment works generally.
I do support smaller indie projects (unless I feel the dev is blindly overpromising / way out of his depth)
Originally posted by Timesplit I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but i see people will defend anything these days. It's just another reason to not trust projects on KS that much, which is a shame to other legit developers.
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Maybe i should've said legit developers on KS that actually follows through with good intentions.
Ok cutting through all the walls of text personally I'm not kickstarting this game so I'll stop commenting, but I think its safe to say anyone who believes everything the developers are sating at this point are in for some disappointment.
Its a Long time from now till launch, plenty of time for things to be changed, deals to be made, and features to be dropped at the devs discretion. What is P2W is frequently different in Developers minds and the players. Hell there is certainly no sure way of knowing the game will even ever make it to release, but if nothing elkse at least MMORPG.COM is making a mint of Crowfalls HUGE advertising push. Yeah Team!
Originally posted by Timesplit I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but i see people will defend anything these days. It's just another reason to not trust projects on KS that much, which is a shame to other legit developers.
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Maybe i should've said legit developers on KS that actually follows through with good intentions.
ah my bad in misreading.
I think on average KS/EA projects are more trustworthy that traditional ones.
By no means of logic should it work that way but the end result seems to be as such regardless.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Timesplit Originally posted by SEANMCAD Originally posted by Timesplit I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but i see people will defend anything these days. It's just another reason to not trust projects on KS that much, which is a shame to other legit developers.
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Maybe i should've said legit developers on KS that actually follows through with good intentions.
ah my bad in misreading.
I think on average KS/EA projects are more trustworthy that traditional ones.
By no means of logic should it work that way but the end result seems to be as such regardless.
your signature is perfect for this thread :P karl pearson ftw
Comments
Advertising isn't a person.
The only way Scientology is like a pyramid scheme is when it's actually like a pyramid scheme. You can go here and search "pyramid" to see that the only time pyramid scheme is mentioned is regarding members getting a commission for recruiting new members, who all give about 10% of their income to the religion.
How much evidence (including evidence coming from topics like Scientology that you brought up yourself) will it take before you realize you're wrong?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If they raise that much it would be based on how good they are or how they are as developers, not their skill at golf
That is true, but - If they skate away with $30m for delivering vaporware, the only career they have to worry about is golf :PIf they raise that much it would be based on how good they are or how they are as developers, not their skill at golf
ya I hear you.But I meant golf, because they'd never have to work another day in their lives
sigh.... I need a kickstarter....
He's free to call it a scam or a scheme all he wants. It's highly unlikely for high-profile kickstarter campaigns run by experienced developers, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
But he can't call it a pyramid scheme, because that already has a specific established definition which is not at all like kickstarter projects.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Playing devil's advocate in your thread here (though I have no problem with kickstarter) doesn't any business use its resources to create ads so that people will flock to their company and products.
And any money raised from kickstarter, even if they didn't put advertisements on sites right now, would still go to advertisments about their product.
Assuming that they are using their own money for these ads would it be better if they weren't making their goal but thought that broadening the message would bring in supporters?
Having said all this, I am not a backer of crowfall though I like some of their ideas.
And come to think of it, non-profits take out ads asking for people to give them money so that they can fulfill their mission all the time.
Of course some would say "but they are non-profits" but that doesn't change that they still need to operate in the black like any company.
The developers of crowfall know that they will make their kickstarter and then some. They just using what funds they now have at their disposal to buff up that kickstarter pot. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. And remember, it doesn't matter that people don't like kickstarter as their message is only for people who do like kickstarter and who might give money.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
He's free to call it a scam or a scheme all he wants. It's highly unlikely for high-profile kickstarter campaigns run by experienced developers, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
But he can't call it a pyramid scheme, because that already has a specific established definition which is not at all like kickstarter projects.
hmmm . well said. I agreeSo with all the free articles, and announcements on Crowfall over the last month your still going with the no one will know about it because its a well kept secret card???????
Or is the truth more that the game can't stand on its own merits without thousands of dollars worth of full pages all over the internet forcing attention to it?
So with all the free articles, and announcements on Crowfall over the last month your still going with the no one will know about it because its a well kept secret card???????
Or is the truth more that the game can't stand on its own merits without thousands of dollars worth of full pages all over the internet forcing attention to it?
I've heard that this Kim Kardashian lady is keener!The thing to not forget, is that Kickstarter is not some benevolent charity: they take what? 7% or 7.5% off the top from every project that is successfully launched?
So KS uses a piece of their cut of previous KS money, to generate more through future KS projects (if they are even the ones buying the space).
Regardless, the people running KS are in it for the money like anyone else.
wowza. That had not occured to me at all... infact I was not aware they took a cut... makes a lot more sense now.... I guess I'm still seeing the world through the pre dot com bubble burst when money online was made through banner clicks?that is a serious amount of money now that it hits me.... forget starting a kickstarter to get rich.... I need to start a kickstarter to get rich!
They take a bit over 8%: 5% for using Kickstarter and payment processing fee of 3% + 0,20$/backer.
Yeah, just look at WoW, they advertise in obscene amount, their game cant really stand on its own, logic, right.
Man, if soemone is so unaware of good busienss practices. I bet you are one of those "good product will sell itself".
No it wont, i dare you to make good product and leave it in your bedroom to see if it sells itself rofl
Its good thing you guys are not in charge of...welll...anything really lol
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Marketing plays an important role in every MMO's lifecycle. Someone who runs an MMO Kickstarter without doing marketing before and during the KS push probably would be better off not being in charge of an MMO project, because he is helping to kill his own project.
That said, I don't give money to bigger companies on KS, they have other avenues of securing funding. If they want me to invest, then they should give me shares. That's how investment works generally.
I do support smaller indie projects (unless I feel the dev is blindly overpromising / way out of his depth)
Maybe i should've said legit developers on KS that actually follows through with good intentions.
ah my bad in misreading.
I think on average KS/EA projects are more trustworthy that traditional ones.
By no means of logic should it work that way but the end result seems to be as such regardless.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
however the end result (the games) seems to suggest the exact opposite.
Kerbal Space Program?
Evolve?
I would take Kerbal over Evolve anyday. So called 'legit' developers are known for major scams
Maybe i should've said legit developers on KS that actually follows through with good intentions.
ah my bad in misreading.
I think on average KS/EA projects are more trustworthy that traditional ones.
By no means of logic should it work that way but the end result seems to be as such regardless.
your signature is perfect for this thread