Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Pay2Win - discussing it is a bannable offense.
littleXuro
Member Posts: 37
One of the challenges of developing a "free to play" is addressing the demands of each party. Once you've formalized and implemented a plan, however, you're still not done.
You often have to communicate with your members and explain the underlying mechanisms of your design – and doing so usually dissipates most concerns and leads to better feedback from players. Over time, both the developers and players grow a better understanding of sustainable commercial practices.
However, these days it's no longer possible since too many people are prone to pasting the term P2W onto pretty much every situation. This behavior is extremely harmful, in the sense that it damages the image of a game before it has even had a chance to reach to its community. One must trust the developers' vision.
It also weakens the dialog between the community and the developers of the game they play.
For these reasons, we will strive to provide answers to our members in need of details regarding our monetization - but in turn, we won't tolerate the word P2W as of today, nor tolerate oversimplification of monetization in topics.
Members participating in the forum this early in the game project ought to allow its community to grow with a sense of responsibility and communication practices that don't undermine their relationship with the skyforge team.
We'll still ask you to respect our rules out of respect for the community that will establish here and align with the developers' views. Once OBT opens in our territories, everyone will have a chance to check the monetization aspects of Skyforge for themselves.
Please note that repeated failure to comply shall result in the removal of your forum rights and beta access.
The game has a subscription option with weekly caps in place, so while I pay for a monthly subscription, people can surpass the weekly limits by buying more credits using real money.
These credits you buy, literally buys you power in this game with a near infinite power cap. That means if someone invests $75 additional dollars into this game, they will have a 15 million credit advantage, while also having the additional weekly cap fully available to them.
A paying member who decides not to utilitize the cash shop can never catch up as result.
In other words, pay more and have permanent advantages. The way the game is build allows of nearly infinite progression, resulting in all whales to be permanently ahead of the regular player who just pays for his subscription.
So outside of the fact that it would take me months to farm this many credits, there is no way to catch up, ever.
- I don't mind paying for a founder pack.
- I don't mind paying for a subscription on a monthly base.
- I don't mind a cash shop that contains horizontal progression (costumes, mounts etc).
I do however mind blatant cash grabs after stating their intention was otherwise.
When I pay a subscription, I expect a fair game where I'm not at an disadvantage for not being addicted to cash shops.
Comments
sounds like you "learnt" your lesson.
And what part about F2P do you 'not' understand? It means cash shop. I.E. they sell and you buy.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
some people just dont get it. they use the term p2w to describe anything that they cant get 100% free. nothing should be free. no games or DLC or anything.
Skyforge ?
P2W ?
Say it ain't so !
Ah yes, the F2P myth is a wonderful thing. You can get everything for free through "normal" game play. It might just take a few months (or years) longer than those people who pay upfront.
Just grit your teeth and grind, and always remember, the grind is absolutely 100% totally FREEE !
And some people obvioulsy never played anything but this p2w, f2p garbage that is out now. When you have all this garbage, where all you did is pay money, and you have everything. It totally ruins the community, and any sense of earning stuff in the game. Such as orginal EQ, which if you manageed to make lvl 60 you were a bad ass dedicated player. Shit for some it was hard to make level 4. Not o here is 40 bucks, now i go from leevel 1-20 90 times faster then every one else. This is why I dont play any mmos, other then the emulated ones, because they are all retarded, with cash shop garbage, and mentally handicapped people who spend 100-10k a month on video games, thinking they are cool. None of these games have any community, or anything at all other then a bunch of people wasting money on everything, and the 3 guys, who spent 4 years grinding one thing, and are looked down upon by the people who paid 14000 dollars to get stuff. I mean for all those of you who wounder why there are no more communitys in mmos welllllllllllllll.
some people just dont get it. they use the term p2w to describe anything that they cant get 100% free. nothing should be free. no games or DLC or anything.
And some people obvioulsy never played anything but this p2w, f2p garbage that is out now. When you have all this garbage, where all you did is pay money, and you have everything. It totally ruins the community, and any sense of earning stuff in the game. Such as orginal EQ, which if you manageed to make lvl 60 you were a bad ass dedicated player. Shit for some it was hard to make level 4. Not o here is 40 bucks, now i go from leevel 1-20 90 times faster then every one else. This is why I dont play any mmos, other then the emulated ones, because they are all retarded, with cash shop garbage, and mentally handicapped people who spend 100-10k a month on video games, thinking they are cool. None of these games have any community, or anything at all other then a bunch of people wasting money on everything, and the 3 guys, who spent 4 years grinding one thing, and are looked down upon by the people who paid 14000 dollars to get stuff. I mean for all those of you who wounder why there are no more communitys in mmos welllllllllllllll.
i agree with you. but whatever game, be it an mmo or a console game, should not be free. i love sub based games as they tend to have more content and a deeper experience. at the very least, games should be b2p. money from these games goes towards DLC and maintenence. games need to make money to keep making the game better and adding more to keep the player playing the game they love.
I think caution in regards to all F2P games is not a bad thing, if you want to avoid the whole P2W situation, the trouble is, its a business at the end of the day, so in order to make them work they inevitably have to pay gate things, or allow players to buy an advantage, for the most part P2W is lazy mechanics, their choosing a quick payout over a long term gain, perhaps thats why so many F2P games have such a high 'churn' rate. The most contentious issue though is what constitutes P2W, as items in a cash shop that give an advantage over others, can range from the more blatant weapons and armour which are otherwise difficult to acquire, to items that 'adjust' crafting probabilities in a positive manner. Which is why i guess, that i prefer Sub type MMO's where i don't have to duel other players with my wallet
Posted on the official forums after people called them out on the cash shop
Monetization in free to play is often a source of endless debate involving different parties, ranging from the “core freeplayers" to the “compulsive buyers".
One of the challenges of developing a "free to play" is addressing the demands of each party. Once you've formalized and implemented a plan, however, you're still not done.
You often have to communicate with your members and explain the underlying mechanisms of your design – and doing so usually dissipates most concerns and leads to better feedback from players. Over time, both the developers and players grow a better understanding of sustainable commercial practices.
However, these days it's no longer possible since too many people are prone to pasting the term P2W onto pretty much every situation. This behavior is extremely harmful, in the sense that it damages the image of a game before it has even had a chance to reach to its community. One must trust the developers' vision.
It also weakens the dialog between the community and the developers of the game they play.
For these reasons, we will strive to provide answers to our members in need of details regarding our monetization - but in turn, we won't tolerate the word P2W as of today, nor tolerate oversimplification of monetization in topics.
Members participating in the forum this early in the game project ought to allow its community to grow with a sense of responsibility and communication practices that don't undermine their relationship with the skyforge team.
We'll still ask you to respect our rules out of respect for the community that will establish here and align with the developers' views. Once OBT opens in our territories, everyone will have a chance to check the monetization aspects of Skyforge for themselves.
Please note that repeated failure to comply shall result in the removal of your forum rights and beta access.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In other words, /uninstalled.
They can have my money from the founder pack and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
There are no sub based games any more that I could find, they all have cash shops....... The only ones I could find that dont support RMT, botting, cheating, ect are donation based emulators.
er, not sure which P2P games your referring to, if anything your argument is more than a little misleading, as quite often those 'emulated' games are rife with not only malware but hacks and blatant cronyism, and thats ignoring the whole 'questionable legality' surrounding them.
And that ladies and gentlemen was the secret code to evacuate immediately.
They still have time do fix it, but I didn't see them care much about allods, anything we said on allods side dev didn't care much we had to say, as we was not there main market target just a side cash.
But I said befor people still will blindy pay for it even if p2w why there not stopping with allods. People like power they like to be at top at all the time, People ever play a fair game.
It's why one should always make up their own opinion instead of listening nerdrage.
According to some people a cool mount or outfit is P2W.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Somehow that sounds very... Russian. No offence intended.
Is this about a cool mount or an outfit? Personally Ive nothing against costmetic items in the cash shop. In fact Id be willing to spend quite a lot of money on cool skins, hairstyles, pets, mounts, animations, etc.
I shouldn't reply to posts like these but I will to avoid further confusion down the line.
The game has a subscription option with weekly caps in place, so while I pay for a monthly subscription, people can surpass the weekly limits by buying more credits using real money.
These credits you buy, literally buys you power in this game with a near infinite power cap. That means if someone invests $75 additional dollars into this game, they will have a 15 million credit advantage, while also having the additional weekly cap fully available to them.
A paying member who decides not to utilitize the cash shop can never catch up as result.
In other words, pay more and have permanent advantages. The way the game is build allows of nearly infinite progression, resulting in all whales to be permanently ahead of the regular player who just pays for his subscription.
So outside of the fact that it would take me months to farm this many credits, there is no way to catch up, ever.
I do however mind blatant cash grabs after stating their intention was otherwise.
When I pay a subscription, I expect a fair game where I'm not at an disadvantage for not being addicted to cash shops.
Your right that nothing should be free how there going make there money back and keep the game going if everything is free and easy.
But the Problem is that soon there going push game play that you need the money to keep up if not then be held back so much even playing sub is not going cut it. Like they did with allods pretty much forced to pvp to do pve, when is not a problem until gear + runes makes a big jump with cash, then if don't spend can't keep up with your pve.
....what?
FFXIV, FFXI, WoW, WildStar...there's plenty of p2p mmorpgs. And if you claim WoW's "in-game shop" is the same as the f2p "cash shop" monicker you're out of your fucking mind.
I retired retroactively..Haha
We should keep in mind that this game has very little pvp and the pve is very cooperative. There is not much direct competition. The pvp is limited to battle arenas and you get matched according to your prestige level. If you spend hundreds of dollars to progress fast and early then you will have few people to pvp with in those arenas and those you do will have had to spend similarly. Or you can wait for eveyone else to catch up.
Generally I don't have a problem with people paying for progress. It is when you can or have to pay for an advantage that cannot be gotten elsewise that it becomes a problem. Now it is somewhat manipulative to create a situation where effort based progress is specifically limited and cash based progress is not. This puts the developer in the position of creating a problem in the game that can overcome with money. When you control both the existence of both the problem and the solution it creates a conflict of interest. But in this case the disparity is simply time gated. Given time your progress continues and while the disparity can be maintained by a persistent spender it matters little.
Viewed another way, in a game that allows for limitless effort based progression, those with little time have a similar disadvantage that simply cannot be over come. Start playing a game with grind based reputation and gear progression after it has been out for a year and you will probably never catch up to the others unless they choose to take an extended break.
I haven't spent time really looking into how Skyforge is doing their thing yet but based on this description I am not going to get too worked up it. At least we don't have the type of sold advantage that can ONLY be had by purchasing stuff like special crafting items from the cash shop. I can choose to push my progress ahead early with cash or I can also choose to simply progress at the normal pace. But at least either way I can progress.
I see this system only being a problem for the hyper-competitive. If you are that competitive and it really bothers you, go play a MOBA like Smite or LoL. They do a much better job of keeping all the competition fair and balanced.
All die, so die well.
Has it been too long to do a chargeback? If there is ever an option to get your money back and hurt them in the process, take it. As money is the only thing that allows such practices to continue. (And people like you who made the mistake of giving it to them. At least you learned your lesson, now make them learn theirs.)
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.