I think a revenue change could help the game. I don't think it's too late for B2P with additional optional revenue streams (rmt to gold, cash shop, dlc, subscription).
Changing to B2P, like ESO, would bring back more existing players who have the potential to spend more money. An increased population could attract others, especially if they know a mandatory monthly fee isn't required after the initial purchase. It might not make the game hugely popular, but I think it could increase the population and revenue generation.
ESO still has console launch to go through. And i guess they numbercrunched its worth to spend some more money because of that.
WS kinda floats in the air.
I think WS would be great on console, but that also takes money and a publisher willing to go that route. I'm not sure NCSoft is inclined.
Well, since it would involve NCSoft handing even more large sums of money on a game that have WSs stats and highly questionable results....would you be the guy that approves that? Especially with Nexon lurking about.
It will only help short term it will not fix the core problems. I have over a dozen friends who rushed to Wildstar for 40 man raids and realized that their love was just nostalgia talking and getting 20 to 40 people together on the same page is a real pain in the ass and will never happen again like it happened in Vanilla WOW. Vanilla WOW was great it was a time where people were willing to put a side personal goals for group goals at least to some level. Today that just does not happen and never will again. So that is wilstar is in the rut its in. Bad design flaws based on nostalgia.
Also I know a lot of people who just will not do Action combat and didnt like it. Also a lot of my friends who quit, quit very fast when they noticed how bad the grind was. You had to complete 20 man to get to 40. Yea having hard content is ok but a major grind no that hurt Wildstar.
Just out of sheer curiosity. Would you play it again if they dropped Datascape from a 40 man raid to a 20 man?
No. I play FFXIV now 8 man raids are easy to manage. I was a Raid leader in the 40 man days and I can tell you while sometimes it was fun it was more often a pain in the ass. Even 20 mans are way to large. I also do not like the action combat its too twitch for me. Tab target or nothing for my now a days.
I only asked because they did drop Datascape to 20 man. And I quite prefer 20 mans over 8 from FFXIV. Sure you have more control, with 8 people, but I get much more satisfaction taking something down with 20 people performing great execution than 8. Or that could have just been because the Wildstar raids were more difficult imo.
I always said from the beginning that Wildstar would be niche, and I was very shocked to see how many people were actually interested in the game. I knew from the start that I fit their niche, but was under no delusions that it would have mass appeal. Having said that, I still think that there is room for the population to recover after the MANY MANY fixes, changes, and updates they have done since launch.
Drop 5 is looking like the final piece of the puzzle which would have made for a spectacular launch.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Originally posted by Albatroes Helped TESO and it keeps GW2 doing solid, why wouldn't it help WS?
Both TESO and GW2 have content geared toward casual play. I've not heard this of WS. I believe you can play a B2P game hardcore but I'm not sure B2P will attract a hardcore player. Not in the way it attracts casuals. There are probably aspects of WS that can be played causal but it was never sold, developed or advertised that way.
Originally posted by Albatroes Helped TESO and it keeps GW2 doing solid, why wouldn't it help WS?
Both TESO and GW2 have content geared toward casual play. I've not heard this of WS. I believe you can play a B2P game hardcore but I'm not sure B2P will attract a hardcore player. Not in the way it attracts casuals. There are probably aspects of WS that can be played causal but it was never sold, developed or advertised that way.
I think the problem then lay with the ONE devspeak about the raids being hardcore. Literally everything else in the game is geared toward casual play. So casual players likely saw that video and said, "oh it's for hardcores only, I'll go elsewhere." Housing, Paths, Adventures, Shiphands, Dungeons, Solo Story Dungeons, all casual content. Most of which can be done at any level.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
If you want to try it out there is already a 10-day pass for free, and due to the C.R.E.D.D. system, the game has been B2P for me, i.e. I haven't paid a single month's subscription.
Whether or not the game goes F2P or B2P, I think something needs to be done.
When the population of your game dictates how much it can be enjoyed, you should absolutely do something about it. People can't really "enjoy" PvP on the PvP servers, and most people are told to roll on a specific server on a specific faction. It really limits the amount of content you can enjoy in the game.
What if someone wanted to play a Chua, a Dominion only character, on a PvP server? Sure, you can. However, you'd be locking yourself out of pretty much any content due to the extreme lack of Dominion players, and also server population. So, roll an Exile character on a PvE server, right? What if that's not what someone wanted to do? They're forced to jump through hoops, and play differently than the game advertised, just because of the population.
Wildstar is a really great game, but it needs to do more than bring old players back. It really needs to generate NEW players. I do see a few "returning player" posts on the official forums, but rarely do I see a "NEW player" thread ... Anywhere. Meaning that most people are level 50 already, and those who return are as well. Greatly limiting the amount of content that can be enjoyed while leveling up.
If going F2P or B2P would help alleviate this problem, I say do it. It certainly couldn't hurt anything, considering where they're at now, IMO.
Whether or not the game goes F2P or B2P, I think something needs to be done.
When the population of your game dictates how much it can be enjoyed, you should absolutely do something about it. People can't really "enjoy" PvP on the PvP servers, and most people are told to roll on a specific server on a specific faction. It really limits the amount of content you can enjoy in the game.
Wildstar is a really great game, but it needs to do more than bring old players back. It really needs to generate NEW players. I do see a few "returning player" posts on the official forums, but rarely do I see a "NEW player" thread ... Anywhere. Meaning that most people are level 50 already, and those who return are as well. Greatly limiting the amount of content that can be enjoyed while leveling up.
If going F2P or B2P would help alleviate this problem, I say do it. It certainly couldn't hurt anything, considering where they're at now, IMO.
What I found out was that being on a PvP server did nothing different other than allow for players to be ganked. Players these days need an incentive for participating in activities, and there really was no reason to do open world PvP. Which left nothing different between the two server types.
This was one of their largest mistakes, and I would honestly be surprised if the PvP servers in Wildstar can recover.
My guild has seen a few new players apply, so it could easily be that new players just don't post their grand arrival.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Whether or not the game goes F2P or B2P, I think something needs to be done.
When the population of your game dictates how much it can be enjoyed, you should absolutely do something about it. People can't really "enjoy" PvP on the PvP servers, and most people are told to roll on a specific server on a specific faction. It really limits the amount of content you can enjoy in the game.
Wildstar is a really great game, but it needs to do more than bring old players back. It really needs to generate NEW players. I do see a few "returning player" posts on the official forums, but rarely do I see a "NEW player" thread ... Anywhere. Meaning that most people are level 50 already, and those who return are as well. Greatly limiting the amount of content that can be enjoyed while leveling up.
If going F2P or B2P would help alleviate this problem, I say do it. It certainly couldn't hurt anything, considering where they're at now, IMO.
What I found out was that being on a PvP server did nothing different other than allow for players to be ganked. Players these days need an incentive for participating in activities, and there really was no reason to do open world PvP. Which left nothing different between the two server types.
This was one of their largest mistakes, and I would honestly be surprised if the PvP servers in Wildstar can recover.
My guild has seen a few new players apply, so it could easily be that new players just don't post their grand arrival.
I completely agree about the PvP issue, Kaladin. I'm not a fan either, but many people are fans of PvP. The people who roll on PvP server are greeted by a desolate wasteland, with no one to interact with, almost at all. There's only what? One guild on the PvP server left playing?
They really should just close the PvP servers down, or make a better system. It really gives the wrong vibe to players who return. I know they game is doing much better than what it SEEMS like it's doing on PvP servers.
i have no statistical data to support this but I am pretty sure that the majority of the gaming population is much older than studios/devs understand.
think 10 years ago that most 30 year olds were 20. As the primary audience grows older , devs haven't adjusted. WoW , caters to casuals because most of it's player base is now adults with families, kids , and what not.
A lot of us don't have time to dedicate to a hardcore schedule and most of your "hardcore" people get home from school or work and can spend 8 hours on a game. The "casuals" cannot. I don't play wow anymore or wildstar, but when i tried wildstar , i said to myself , "i only have time for one wow". I try to find mmo's that I can enjoy regardless of time, I believe swtor is really my best fit and I take breaks from that regularly.
Wildstar needs to re work it's gameplay to cater to people that only have a couple hours and make that couple of hours engaging and worthwhile. Right now, it's just not worth logging in for an hour. I enjoyed warlords because it gave me an opportunity to feel progression with limited gameplay.
The rise of multiplayer co-ops is really taking off more than MMO's as they are regressing because mmo's aren't adjusting to the maturation of it's player base.
So tldr; no. A change in mechanics to suit a broader base is the best option.
I feel like it'd definitely help the population, or at the very least help spike it momentarily. I don't think a payment model alone will suffice to ameliorate the game. Its main problem is its overwhelming focus on hardcore in a vain effort to capture yesteryear's magic. Your synopsis of the generational issue highlights the main problem.
I'd come back to the game if the ui calmed down a bit, it ran better, and it was less grindy. I have't heard of this happening yet, though.
Got an amd and quad @3.5 and unfortunately at my last test a couple weeks ago it still tanked performance wise, average in cities with high settings in gw1 and eso is 30-60
Average in wildstar is 1-15 !
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
WS may well be the first MMO that dies because it goes F2P, lol
For F2P to work, you need large amounts of players AND retain them for at least a month or two. That seems to be WS's main problem, the majority of people that try it simply don't like it. It was a gamble and it failed.
Agree with this, I've got it installed, I have a 10 day free trial and fancied something a big different, but performance killed it for me, and logged out after 30 mins of tweaking.
I had no performance troubles unlike I did playing that dull linear game called Eso. Wildstar is just as linear but at least it doesn't have the bugs that ESO has.
Cannot answer the OP's question in a general way, but for me a model change won't mean anything. My problem with Wildstar is that the game is, let's say, "too demanding". I'm ok with having to intensely focus during raids and stuff like that, but from what I remember from when I was playing it (I don't know if things have changed), I had to dodge everything, pay attention not to pull extras etc (lots of close-together mobs), fast respawns etc. After 8+ hours of work, this is not fun for me anymore.
Originally posted by psychobgr I think they should at least try the B2P option. MMO's need a healthy population to work and B2P could help Wildstar with new accounts and old.
For B2P to have an advantage over F2P the game actually has to be able to sell boxes. Given WS's current reputation I don't see that happening.
Raiding is a term seems started around time of Wow but of course was done before.IMO it is a huge black mark on gaming in general.
It creates a stigma that players don't care about the game itself and only want to do raids because they offer the best drops.Pretty shallow reason to play a game if you ask me.You do not and NEVER will need raid size content to create FUN content.A small 5-6 man group can accomplish the same thing,is easier to form and can likely allow just friends to hangout and do all the content.
Devs need to start worry about the game itself and not instances,make a great open world that players want to take part in,give them more reason and choice to why they are in that world.Simply dotting around quests ,is NOT a good reason,every single player knows why they are doing those quests,to gain a level to get to raid fights.
The cost will have nothing to do with getting players,as in my example,i wouldn't play WS for free.You simply need to build a better game and NOT copy Wow's formula.I won't play FFXIV anymore for the same reason,i am not about to play a WOW design anywhere.
99% of these games,you don't even need internet,they are single player game designs with co-op for instances,this is also not Role play gaming unless your role paying a quest jumper and raider of instances.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Well, since it would involve NCSoft handing even more large sums of money on a game that have WSs stats and highly questionable results....would you be the guy that approves that? Especially with Nexon lurking about.
I only asked because they did drop Datascape to 20 man. And I quite prefer 20 mans over 8 from FFXIV. Sure you have more control, with 8 people, but I get much more satisfaction taking something down with 20 people performing great execution than 8. Or that could have just been because the Wildstar raids were more difficult imo.
I always said from the beginning that Wildstar would be niche, and I was very shocked to see how many people were actually interested in the game. I knew from the start that I fit their niche, but was under no delusions that it would have mass appeal. Having said that, I still think that there is room for the population to recover after the MANY MANY fixes, changes, and updates they have done since launch.
Drop 5 is looking like the final piece of the puzzle which would have made for a spectacular launch.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Both TESO and GW2 have content geared toward casual play. I've not heard this of WS. I believe you can play a B2P game hardcore but I'm not sure B2P will attract a hardcore player. Not in the way it attracts casuals. There are probably aspects of WS that can be played causal but it was never sold, developed or advertised that way.
I think the problem then lay with the ONE devspeak about the raids being hardcore. Literally everything else in the game is geared toward casual play. So casual players likely saw that video and said, "oh it's for hardcores only, I'll go elsewhere." Housing, Paths, Adventures, Shiphands, Dungeons, Solo Story Dungeons, all casual content. Most of which can be done at any level.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
Ya think?
Answer: No.
If you want to try it out there is already a 10-day pass for free, and due to the C.R.E.D.D. system, the game has been B2P for me, i.e. I haven't paid a single month's subscription.
Whether or not the game goes F2P or B2P, I think something needs to be done.
When the population of your game dictates how much it can be enjoyed, you should absolutely do something about it. People can't really "enjoy" PvP on the PvP servers, and most people are told to roll on a specific server on a specific faction. It really limits the amount of content you can enjoy in the game.
What if someone wanted to play a Chua, a Dominion only character, on a PvP server? Sure, you can. However, you'd be locking yourself out of pretty much any content due to the extreme lack of Dominion players, and also server population. So, roll an Exile character on a PvE server, right? What if that's not what someone wanted to do? They're forced to jump through hoops, and play differently than the game advertised, just because of the population.
Wildstar is a really great game, but it needs to do more than bring old players back. It really needs to generate NEW players. I do see a few "returning player" posts on the official forums, but rarely do I see a "NEW player" thread ... Anywhere. Meaning that most people are level 50 already, and those who return are as well. Greatly limiting the amount of content that can be enjoyed while leveling up.
If going F2P or B2P would help alleviate this problem, I say do it. It certainly couldn't hurt anything, considering where they're at now, IMO.
What I found out was that being on a PvP server did nothing different other than allow for players to be ganked. Players these days need an incentive for participating in activities, and there really was no reason to do open world PvP. Which left nothing different between the two server types.
This was one of their largest mistakes, and I would honestly be surprised if the PvP servers in Wildstar can recover.
My guild has seen a few new players apply, so it could easily be that new players just don't post their grand arrival.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I completely agree about the PvP issue, Kaladin. I'm not a fan either, but many people are fans of PvP. The people who roll on PvP server are greeted by a desolate wasteland, with no one to interact with, almost at all. There's only what? One guild on the PvP server left playing?
They really should just close the PvP servers down, or make a better system. It really gives the wrong vibe to players who return. I know they game is doing much better than what it SEEMS like it's doing on PvP servers.
I feel like it'd definitely help the population, or at the very least help spike it momentarily. I don't think a payment model alone will suffice to ameliorate the game. Its main problem is its overwhelming focus on hardcore in a vain effort to capture yesteryear's magic. Your synopsis of the generational issue highlights the main problem.
I'd come back to the game if the ui calmed down a bit, it ran better, and it was less grindy. I have't heard of this happening yet, though.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
It seem so in last time I played, and I'm running a AMD cpu was getting pretty good fps.
Average in wildstar is 1-15 !
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
WS may well be the first MMO that dies because it goes F2P, lol
For F2P to work, you need large amounts of players AND retain them for at least a month or two. That seems to be WS's main problem, the majority of people that try it simply don't like it. It was a gamble and it failed.
I had no performance troubles unlike I did playing that dull linear game called Eso. Wildstar is just as linear but at least it doesn't have the bugs that ESO has.Cannot answer the OP's question in a general way, but for me a model change won't mean anything. My problem with Wildstar is that the game is, let's say, "too demanding". I'm ok with having to intensely focus during raids and stuff like that, but from what I remember from when I was playing it (I don't know if things have changed), I had to dodge everything, pay attention not to pull extras etc (lots of close-together mobs), fast respawns etc. After 8+ hours of work, this is not fun for me anymore.
For B2P to have an advantage over F2P the game actually has to be able to sell boxes. Given WS's current reputation I don't see that happening.
Two options:
It stays as it is - but no idea what:-
- the current numbers are
- the current decline/growth pattern
- if these numbers are sufficient for it to continue as it is, and enable regular new content.
Second option:
Keep the sub model and augment this with a btp/ftp option:-
This would of course grow the playerbase - but for how long is anyone's guess.
Changing the sub model - or adding to it - still relies on the core game being attractive to bring people in/back to the game.
I don't know what the current state of the game population is, but I sure would play if they went B2P.
I've always considered to resub but every time I'm holding back because there are chances I won't play and so I'd lose 15 euros.
Not that 15 euros is so much money, it's that I'm not so eager to play the game. I'd like to try again yes, but not so much to pay 15 euros again.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Raiding is a term seems started around time of Wow but of course was done before.IMO it is a huge black mark on gaming in general.
It creates a stigma that players don't care about the game itself and only want to do raids because they offer the best drops.Pretty shallow reason to play a game if you ask me.You do not and NEVER will need raid size content to create FUN content.A small 5-6 man group can accomplish the same thing,is easier to form and can likely allow just friends to hangout and do all the content.
Devs need to start worry about the game itself and not instances,make a great open world that players want to take part in,give them more reason and choice to why they are in that world.Simply dotting around quests ,is NOT a good reason,every single player knows why they are doing those quests,to gain a level to get to raid fights.
The cost will have nothing to do with getting players,as in my example,i wouldn't play WS for free.You simply need to build a better game and NOT copy Wow's formula.I won't play FFXIV anymore for the same reason,i am not about to play a WOW design anywhere.
99% of these games,you don't even need internet,they are single player game designs with co-op for instances,this is also not Role play gaming unless your role paying a quest jumper and raider of instances.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
well if they are making enough money with their subs, there is no need for a new model.
anyway, i would surely come back in a buy 2 play model :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"