Raph Koster Interview

Arvad · February 2006

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/story.php?sid=6144237

scaramoosh · February 2006

He's like a bearded version of smedley:

legacyguy · February 2006

To think that I once liked the guy and defended him... he's fallen far in the past 4 years. I could postulate from this interview that SOE truly is the root of all evil that corrupts all that it touches.

dolanious · February 2006

I no longer like Raph.... I like him 2.5 years ago but not anymore. Too bad too.

GS: Does the Star Wars intellectual property add additional concerns when you change the game?

RK: Sure. Of course it does. It has to. With even the smallest change, you have to worry, "Is it Star Wars-y?" You have to weigh the changes and say, "Can we make the game more Star Wars-y?" The game's core audience is people that are Star Wars fans, so of course it plays that role.

pinkdaisy · February 2006

Don't go too hard on Koster. I'm as critical about SOEs/LAs total screwup that is SWG as everyone else, but i don't believe Koster is the one who created those problems.

True enough Smedley and Torres are complete idiots. They have taken what was a good game and turned it upside down. I don't think, however, that Koster was part of that master plan. here's why:

Koster used to be the "creative director for SWG", but he is now the "creative director for SOE". That might seem like a small difference, but it's not. Many of those innovative gameplay mechanics found in the old SWG were from him. Things like skill-based level system, player run economy, diversity in character development path, lack of instancing, and so on. He was the one making the "sandbox" that Smedley now claims no one wants to play.

Raph posts over at Terra Nova, his own blog, and he's a regular poster on the MUD-Dev mailing list. There have been many heated discussions about MMOs, and it's clear from those discussions that Raph -- unlike Smed and Torres -- does "get it". Plus, he's written a very good book on game design called "A theory of Fun For Game Design", it's a really good book. Also, about the same time that the CU was published, Raph posted on MUD-Dev that he was forming a new research group at SOE to work on next gen MMO development. I took that to mean he was no longer part of SWG as soon as the CU hit.

Everything that Raph talks about in MMOs is exactly the opposite direction that SWG is going: replace skill-based with level-based, remove the open-endedness, remove the player-driven economy, remove the non-combat classes, and so on.

Raph has also made some vieled comments on his blog and on Terra Nova to suggest that he doesn't like the direction SWG is heading, and that he's not the one at the controls as the Valdez as it's about to run aground.

I see in that interview him saying the same things that Torres/Smed say about "starwars-y", but i think those comments are him trying to stick to the party line, and not his true feelings. I suspect if Raph was working at another MMO developer and not under an NDA from SOE, his comments about the current state of SWG would be very different.

Food for thought.

~PD

pinkdaisy · February 2006

Doh! double post!

~PD

dolanious · February 2006

[quote]Originally posted by pinkdaisy
[b][color=pink]Don't go too hard on Koster.....
[/quote]Everything that Raph talks about in MMOs is exactly the opposite direction that SWG is going: replace skill-based with level-based, remove the open-endedness, remove the player-driven economy, remove the non-combat classes, and so on.
Raph has also made some vieled comments on his blog and on Terra Nova to suggest that he doesn't like the direction SWG is heading, and that he's not the one at the controls as the Valdez as it's about to run aground.
I see in that interview him saying the same things that Torres/Smed say about "starwars-y", but i think those comments are him trying to stick to the party line, and not his true feelings. I suspect if Raph was working at another MMO developer and not under an NDA from SOE, his comments about the current state of SWG would be very different.
Food for thought.
~PD[/b][/quote]

I said I liked Raph 2.5 years ago, when he first started working on SWG and up to the point he stopped, but not NOW. Why? Because his design philosophy has indeed changed (changed how? it's now parallel with SOE's).

If you read that whole interview, as I did, and dont walk away with the feeling that he is indifferent if not totally in support-of the changes of the NGE, then, I cant help you.

Raph is no better than any-other dev at SOE. I hate to say it, but its true.

Arvad · February 2006

GS: These MMOs are living, evolving game worlds. And it seems like every time that there's a patch for any game out, there's a bunch of users on the forums that are unhappy. But I think the reaction to the recent Star Wars revamping is above and beyond what I've seen before from MMO updates. Does that suggests to you that there are limits to how much these game worlds can change? Or is it just a matter of how quickly they can change?

RK: That's an interesting question. Obviously, people grow attached to a game as they know it and sometimes it needs to change. Sometimes the game just needs to evolve. One of the classic examples that has always come up is the question of replacing avatar art. People get really attached to the way their characters look. Then you want to upgrade it so that it doesn't look like *** because it's been [the same for] years. And then we get a revolt. And that's happened to several games.

I think games obviously need to evolve and they need to evolve in tandem with what the user base wants and also what meets the demands for the game's survival. And it's a line to walk. I'm not going to say otherwise. But I think games evolve over time and when they evolve, it's largely from player desires and pressures. The companies aren't out there just changing stuff willy-nilly. They're out there trying to make people happy.

In a way I guess you could take this as being critical of how the NGE was handled but then it is a bit evasive if so.

Peacedog · February 2006

Hehe he dodged more bullets than Neo in the Matrix.

Ok first, I do have modicum of respect for Raph. I believe his heart is in the right place, but the soul, hmm the poor poor soul belongs to SOE.

Take the following with a grain of salt. I'll admit I have a bone to pick with SOE. I do not like them I think they are bad news for consumers. Sometimes I'll respond as I think Raph may have:

At the same time, I don't think that the big companies are incapable of innovating. They can innovate even in ways that the smaller guys often can't because they're small. They don't necessarily have the funding. And I think a lot of the things that are being done are actually along those lines. There are innovations that can't necessarily be tried by somebody that doesn't have a large established user base. PlanetSide is an example of that. I think some of the things we've done expanding out in that direction--[the flat fee multi-game subscription plan] Station Access, Station Exchange--you can't do those things unless you have a big user base

Not quite sure what you can do when you consistently alienate that big user base. Maybe he probably should have stuck with "Sony has deep pockets".

So, I don't think that innovation is solely the province of the indies. At the same time, I love the indies and I keep a close eye on them to see what they come up with because you never know.

...what we can steal or try to copy. Wait, that's not fair to Raph (but true of SOE)he is creative. I do find it amusing though the discussion of innovation by a mouthpiece for a company that still pats themselves on the back for a 7 year old game (that they took over after McQuaid left).

And we just added player-versus-player in EverQuest II.

Because WoW added battlegrounds later. This must be the innovation we talked about earlier.

We want to always be adding and changing and providing fresh experiences.

Whether the userbase wants it or not. Basically fresh ideas are things we think we can do to make our game more "WoW-like". We deserve 5 million subscribers, dammit we're SOE. Remember EQ???

Micro-transactions obviously is the one everybody's paying attention to now.

And due to empirical evidence (mine) it seems to be something no one in this hemisphere wants. SOE will try it anyway, the focus group down at the local Burger King responded with a resounding "Huh???".

I don't think that means subscriptions are going to go away but it does mean that we need to keep broadening our sense of the kinds of ways you can make money off of these games.

Man that sound's like your saying "money, money, money"

It sounds like, "money, money, money," but, to me, what that actually means is we're going to get more kinds of games because when the business model changes, people get inventive about ways to design towards those business models.

Doh, sorry. I wonder though if you and Smedley are hearing the same thing?

We certainly regard EverQuest II as a game of its own and we do not regard it as a replacement to EverQuest.

Even though its called Everquest II. But seriously, if EQ2 fails well we still have EQ1. Woohoo remember EQ1? we made that, kinda.

So, with EverQuest and EverQuest II, [they're both EverQuest] because they share a lore. But if you've played both of them, they play fairly differently in a lot of ways. And we do that on purpose.

Yeah we purposely hurried the release one of these to compete with the 600lb gorilla of the industry. So different is as simple as "finished" and "unfinished".

I think the historical evidence is that the games will last, right? The question is, "But with how many players?"

And that question is being answered right now with our brilliant abomination of my work called the "NGE".

From a business point of view, it becomes about how many customers you have and what does that pay for in terms of keeping it going?

Or from a smart business perspective, it becomes about how not to idiotically alienate 80% of your veteran playerbase. Because imaginary 12 year old FPS'ers usually pay with monopoly money.

That's an interesting question. Obviously, people grow attached to a game as they know it and sometimes it needs to change. Sometimes the game just needs to evolve.

Or sometimes it just needs to be fixed. But evolving into lower profits is always good too, I guess.

One of the classic examples that has always come up is the question of replacing avatar art.

Actually we are witnessing one of the classic examples of "what not to do". Thanks guys. Maybe the big guys CAN work with the indie guys, in a way. Kinda show em what not to do and all that.

People get really attached to the way their characters look

Or if they even exist anymore.

I think games obviously need to evolve and they need to evolve in tandem with what the user base wants and also what meets the demands for the game's survival.

Or you could do neither and watch the investors shit their pants at the next quarterly meeting.

The companies aren't out there just changing stuff willy-nilly. They're out there trying to make people happy.

Ok i had to laugh at the first sentence. Well, the second sentence to.

Obviously, everybody has to have common sense.

And we all learned common sense and greed (5 million, think about it) rarely share the same bed.

. There are things that we obviously can't talk about.

Yeah it was called the NGE. It would have hurt ToOW sales.

But it's a common sense leash, obviously. "Don't be stupid." It's kind of the cardinal rule that we try to use.

*blink*???*blink* bwahhahahahahahaha

. But, beyond that, being in touch with the gamer community and knowing what they're enjoying--we need our developers to do that

Yeah, we need to do that, like yesterday.

It's not like games that are perfect for what the audience wants, like, spring from here [gestures to his forehead] or anything. It just doesn't work that way.

Ok, I like that he pointed to the spot where his soul used to be. I'm sure Smed thinks the exact opposite though Raph. He knows what we want by God.

The best you can do is think about it long and hard, research the questions, ask the players, talk to them and make a call. And that's really how you do it with every change, even the tiny ones you do it that way.

At least thats a theory I wrote about years ago. But let me explain how it really works: Code it in two days, put it on TC for 1, release it to live and get back to working on the expansion.

"Is it Star Wars-y?" You have to weigh the changes and say, "Can we make the game more Star Wars-y?"

It's good to see that the Tantric Team Meetings that Julio has been having seem to be working.

Creativity is enhanced by limitations. That's something I always say. Creativity is often about finding a way out of a given box.

And jumping in another box that gonna be "given" us 5 million subscribers!!! BooYa

GS: As a gamer, not as a developer, what is the most important part of an MMO to you? Is it community? Is it infrastructure? Is it content?
RK: I think it is the community, you know?

There's nothing like the creative thrill we get from ignoring them.

In the end, you're there to play with your friends, right?

Hey? what the hell happened to all my friends??? Oh yeah, 5,200,000 (think about it)

The magic really happens when you get that expereience with your friends.

Yep, the magic, like an evening at the house of Siegfried and Roy without an ounce of lube in sight.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Raph for being a little harsh. Gotta keep the SOE propaganda in check though. I know you've brought a lot to SOE, but buddy their just bringing you down.

ridenar · February 2006

"Cross platform is the future" yet when people ask we refuse to talk about it

therfore our policy is ....

SOE refuse to talk about the future.

as for cross platform

PC <-> PSP <->XBOX360 <-> mobile phone

a convoy sails at the speed of it's slowest ship.... which will be the mobile users...

Jodokai · February 2006

What I find hysterical is that everybody is slamming Koster, yet they want to go back to his original vision: SWG preCU.

deggilator · February 2006

Originally posted by ridenar

as for cross platform
PC <-> PSP <->XBOX360 <-> mobile phone
a convoy sails at the speed of it's slowest ship.... which will be the mobile users...

That's not the case. If I remember Smedley's example correctly, in a mobile phone there's limited access to what you can do. Sort inventory, chat with your guilds, etc. You do not enjoy the full game in the mobile due to its restrictions. Same for PSP.

As for desktop consoles like PS3 or XBox360, they provide no actual limitation. In my opinion, investing in MMOGs for console should prove quite profitable after PS3 is released, since consoles have become more than just a game machine.

ridenar · February 2006

i know what you mean

although Raph actually left SWG just prior to vehicles coming in

also, back then he was a dev so to speak, now he has the big title, big chair, big pay packet and he's one of the top SOE boys...

that's alot to lose so he's singing the company song with as much effort as the others.

his interviews now always tow the SOE line, yet you feel he's holding back on what he really wants to say....

but he ain't gonna say it cause they'll take away his parking space

ridenar · February 2006

if you think cross platform doesn't mean limitations across the game then you've had a bang on the head son..

metalcore · February 2006

Seems to me a lack of ideas and stuck in a rut of "we are going to make our lame ass ideas work".

duncan_922 · February 2006

http://www.gucomics.com/

Elnator · February 2006

Originally posted by deggilator

Originally posted by ridenar

as for cross platform
PC <-> PSP <->XBOX360 <-> mobile phone
a convoy sails at the speed of it's slowest ship.... which will be the mobile users...

That's not the case. If I remember Smedley's example correctly, in a mobile phone there's limited access to what you can do. Sort inventory, chat with your guilds, etc. You do not enjoy the full game in the mobile due to its restrictions. Same for PSP.

As for desktop consoles like PS3 or XBox360, they provide no actual limitation. In my opinion, investing in MMOGs for console should prove quite profitable after PS3 is released, since consoles have become more than just a game machine.

Didn't PS3 get pushed back again due to quality & performance issues? A engineer working on the PS3 got fired for writing just that in his blog. I wouldn't hold my breath on the PS3.

Shayde · February 2006

Originally posted by Jodokai
What I find hysterical is that everybody is slamming Koster, yet they want to go back to his original vision: SWG preCU.

Maybe because he's totally done a 180 and gone against what his "vision" was.

I just realized SWG is much more Star Warsy... When Episodes 4-6 came out it was great. Couldn't get enough of it. A true timeless classic.

Then the "special edition" and Greedo shooting first. Small problems, yes, but we still loved it (CU)

Then episodes 1-3 introduced THE SUCK. (nge)

The Star Wars we loved is gone, just like Hayden replaced Anakin in the glowie.

duncan_922 · February 2006

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by Jodokai
What I find hysterical is that everybody is slamming Koster, yet they want to go back to his original vision: SWG preCU.

Maybe because he's totally done a 180 and gone against what his "vision" was.

I just realized SWG is much more Star Warsy... When Episodes 4-6 came out it was great. Couldn't get enough of it. A true timeless classic.

Then the "special edition" and Greedo shooting first. Small problems, yes, but we still loved it (CU)

Then episodes 1-3 introduced THE SUCK. (nge)

The Star Wars we loved is gone, just like Hayden replaced Anakin in the glowie.

Please stop using the term Star Warsy! Everytime someone says it, a puppy dies!

Maldach · February 2006

Overusage of the phrase 'Star Wars-y' is reason enough to stop playing the damn game.

scaramoosh · February 2006

Originally posted by Elnator

Originally posted by deggilator

Originally posted by ridenar

as for cross platform
PC <-> PSP <->XBOX360 <-> mobile phone
a convoy sails at the speed of it's slowest ship.... which will be the mobile users...

That's not the case. If I remember Smedley's example correctly, in a mobile phone there's limited access to what you can do. Sort inventory, chat with your guilds, etc. You do not enjoy the full game in the mobile due to its restrictions. Same for PSP.

As for desktop consoles like PS3 or XBox360, they provide no actual limitation. In my opinion, investing in MMOGs for console should prove quite profitable after PS3 is released, since consoles have become more than just a game machine.

Didn't PS3 get pushed back again due to quality & performance issues? A engineer working on the PS3 got fired for writing just that in his blog. I wouldn't hold my breath on the PS3.

I thought he got fired for talking about the Alpha PS3 kit

dolanious · February 2006

Originally posted by Jodokai
What I find hysterical is that everybody is slamming Koster, yet they want to go back to his original vision: SWG preCU.

Please, dont start. No ones slamming the Raph that lived 2.5 years ago, we're slamming him here, now, today-- for what he has become. The man has changed; his philosophies are parallel with SOEs. Hes no better than Jfreeman now (no, i'm not exaggerating).

We like the Raph 2.5 years ago.

We don't like the Raph that exists today.

PepiDeto · February 2006

Originally posted by pinkdaisy

Don't go too hard on Koster. I'm as critical about SOEs/LAs total screwup that is SWG as everyone else, but i don't believe Koster is the one who created those problems.
True enough Smedley and Torres are complete idiots. They have taken what was a good game and turned it upside down. I don't think, however, that Koster was part of that master plan. here's why:
Koster used to be the "creative director for SWG", but he is now the "creative director for SOE". That might seem like a small difference, but it's not. Many of those innovative gameplay mechanics found in the old SWG were from him. Things like skill-based level system, player run economy, diversity in character development path, lack of instancing, and so on. He was the one making the "sandbox" that Smedley now claims no one wants to play.
Raph posts over at Terra Nova, his own blog, and he's a regular poster on the MUD-Dev mailing list. There have been many heated discussions about MMOs, and it's clear from those discussions that Raph -- unlike Smed and Torres -- does "get it". Plus, he's written a very good book on game design called "A theory of Fun For Game Design", it's a really good book. Also, about the same time that the CU was published, Raph posted on MUD-Dev that he was forming a new research group at SOE to work on next gen MMO development. I took that to mean he was no longer part of SWG as soon as the CU hit.
Everything that Raph talks about in MMOs is exactly the opposite direction that SWG is going: replace skill-based with level-based, remove the open-endedness, remove the player-driven economy, remove the non-combat classes, and so on.
Raph has also made some vieled comments on his blog and on Terra Nova to suggest that he doesn't like the direction SWG is heading, and that he's not the one at the controls as the Valdez as it's about to run aground.
I see in that interview him saying the same things that Torres/Smed say about "starwars-y", but i think those comments are him trying to stick to the party line, and not his true feelings. I suspect if Raph was working at another MMO developer and not under an NDA from SOE, his comments about the current state of SWG would be very different.
Food for thought.
~PD

/agree he might be towing the line because he saw what happened to those who didn't and he wants to keep his job.

Jeff44 · February 2006

Upfront - I've not played SWG, although I had friends who were rabid about it years ago.

It just seems to me, as an uninterested observer, that every time someone from SOE opens their mouths, they dig themselves in deeper. I have never purchased, nor played an SOE MMORPG, and after reading these boards and the SONY SWG ones, I will state that it would take a heck of a lot to get me to ever consider playing one in the future.

w_boodle · February 2006

The very best thing that could happen to SOE is having Koster at the helm. The man has vision and has proven it more than once. Unlike Smedley or Torres, he engages MMO gaming on a personal, intellectual, emotional AND practical level. Would that we all accomplished as much in our own passions & professions.

My happiest MMORPG experiences have come in the worlds that Koster created. I would very much like to see him at the helm of SOE ... seeding it with Devs of similar philosophy ... creating worlds that once again get my heart pounding.

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