Pillars of Eternity story/lore/depth in an ArcheAge/BlackDesert/Classic UO feature filled world. Wou

Maquiame · March 2015

Imagine the best features of both put together. Pillars of Eternity's world, lore and story presentation, combined with the feature list of ArcheAge/Classic Ultima Online or even Black Desert. Made by preferably a western developer, security protection to enforce blocks against bots, hackers, gold sellers and the like.

What do you think? I know this is something that I need right now as I am just not interested in current mmorpgs. I need something that has depth both in its featurelist and its story presentation and world lore. I think a combination of both factors would be exactly what many of us are looking for.

Feedback? I'd love to hear you MMORPG writers feedback on this also. I think this is what the genre needs right now. A perfect blend of both worlds wrapped into one. Is it the perfect game? No, but I think it would be better than what is out there right now. I know this is what I'm missing right now and would love to see and kickstart if possible.

Scalpless · March 2015

I'd also add Devil May Cry's fast-paced combat while making the game as strategically deep as Europa Universalis and add the superb character customization of Guild Wars 1 on top. And make it a true sandbox experience with VR support.

Hey, if we're throwing generic descriptions around, might as well go all the way.

Arazale · March 2015

Just stop right there. Single player RPGs are good and play the way they do -because- they're single player. You will never get it to work nearly as well when you transition it over to an mmorpg. Things have to be changed and sacrificed when made into an mmo, just look at fucking ESO.

Amaranthar · March 2015

I agree with the gist of what you are saying , OP.

I've only played UO out of that list, but I'm familiar with the others enough, I think.

Tabloid42 · March 2015

oh,..and I have to pay real $$ for decent inventory space? Char slots? To be able to equip higher end gear?

Or pay to reset purposefully low caps on gathering and crafting?!

Nah,...

if PoE doesn't use a cash shop and is single player,..then let it be. As much as I prefer 3rd person MMO's to cRpg's,..leave the curse of MMO cash shops where they be. let it fester in the MMO's till it kills itself,..the sooner the better,..to be hopefully reborn.

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Arazale
Just stop right there. Single player RPGs are good and play the way they do -because- they're single player. You will never get it to work nearly as well when you transition it over to an mmorpg. Things have to be changed and sacrificed when made into an mmo, just look at fucking ESO.

ESO is the way it is because of specific design decisions, not because it "had" to be that way because there was no other conceivable way to do it.

itsover · March 2015

yes

Siveria · March 2015

Originally posted by Scalpless
I'd also add Devil May Cry's fast-paced combat while making the game as strategically deep as Europa Universalis and add the superb character customization of Guild Wars 1 on top. And make it a true sandbox experience with VR support.

Hey, if we're throwing generic descriptions around, might as well go all the way.

I don't think a game like that is ever going to exist :P. As to it being like archeage, no, hell no, archeage rather sucks.

Vermillion_Raventhal · March 2015

You're pretty much describing the last 10 years of MMORPG themeparks lol.

Arazale · March 2015

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Arazale
Just stop right there. Single player RPGs are good and play the way they do -because- they're single player. You will never get it to work nearly as well when you transition it over to an mmorpg. Things have to be changed and sacrificed when made into an mmo, just look at fucking ESO.

ESO is the way it is because of specific design decisions, not because it "had" to be that way because there was no other conceivable way to do it.

Keep telling yourself that. That's why we've never gotten an mmorpg with a well written story anywhere near the best single player rpg's story. Certain things are lost when you change format, its unavoidable.

Single player RPGs focus is usually on story/lore/graphics, MMOs focus is usually on combat/crafting/group battles.

When the focuses of two mediums are in different areas, its only natural when you try to combine the two both areas suffer.

Skymourne · March 2015

Originally posted by Maquiame
Imagine the best features of both put together. Pillars of Eternity's world, lore and story presentation, combined with the feature list of ArcheAge/Classic Ultima Online or even Black Desert. Made by preferably a western developer, security protection to enforce blocks against bots, hackers, gold sellers and the like.

What do you think? I know this is something that I need right now as I am just not interested in current mmorpgs. I need something that has depth both in its featurelist and its story presentation and world lore. I think a combination of both factors would be exactly what many of us are looking for.

Feedback? I'd love to hear you MMORPG writers feedback on this also. I think this is what the genre needs right now. A perfect blend of both worlds wrapped into one. Is it the perfect game? No, but I think it would be better than what is out there right now. I know this is what I'm missing right now and would love to see and kickstart if possible.

As much as I want what you want, i just don't think it's possible. Maybe i'm wrong here, or I'm just so pessimistic after all these years, but i figure it would've happened by now. Getting deep crafting, combat, gameplay, and the immersion of something like Pillars of Eternity? Sign me up, but the problem is, unfortunately, i only think we can get that experience from single player. I need to be proven wrong though. I need it.

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Arazale
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Arazale
Just stop right there. Single player RPGs are good and play the way they do -because- they're single player. You will never get it to work nearly as well when you transition it over to an mmorpg. Things have to be changed and sacrificed when made into an mmo, just look at fucking ESO.

ESO is the way it is because of specific design decisions, not because it "had" to be that way because there was no other conceivable way to do it.

Keep telling yourself that. That's why we've never gotten an mmorpg with a well written story anywhere near the best single player rpg's story. Certain things are lost when you change format, its unavoidable.

Single player RPGs focus is usually on story/lore/graphics, MMOs focus is usually on combat/crafting/group battles.

When the focuses of two mediums are in different areas, its only natural when you try to combine the two both areas suffer.

They could have made ESO like the original Guild Wars where all cities are open for everyone and where the world is instanced to the party. Then they could have had their story play out over whatever series of quests they created for the party.

They could have had the world open as well but each quest area out in the world instanced where players take quests but travel to the instances/areas where those quests play out.

I'm not sure why this is hard for you to imagine.

Tabloid42 · March 2015

Originally posted by Sovrath

They could have had the world open as well but each quest area out in the world instanced where players take quests but travel to the instances/areas where those quests play out.

I'm not sure why this is hard for you to imagine.

That sounds like a nightmare of buggy npc's and glitches. And what if a new player wants to group with you but is not on the same quest step?

Heavy instancing and phasing ruins alot, imho. At some point,..it's like,..ok ,..lets go play a normal party-rpg.

The Mass effect stuff is awesome,..but in Star Wars:ToR it is a paltry shadow of what it was because they simply cannot alter the persistent game world in such a way to cater to the thousands of choices from thousands of players without stepping on each other's toes. and then again,..you may as well play single player if you want such personal world altering story changes. At least at this point in the tech, imho.

Dullahan · March 2015

The closest you are going to get as far as a storied, open ended, living/breathing world will be in Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. Its pve focus, but there will be pvp servers.

Maquiame · March 2015

Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
You're pretty much describing the last 10 years of MMORPG themeparks lol.

1. None of the games I mentioned are themeparks

2. Name one themepark with a story as good as POE or any classic Infinity Engine rpg

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Tabloid42
Originally posted by Sovrath

They could have had the world open as well but each quest area out in the world instanced where players take quests but travel to the instances/areas where those quests play out.

I'm not sure why this is hard for you to imagine.

That sounds like a nightmare of buggy npc's and glitches. And what if a new player wants to group with you but is not on the same quest step?

Heavy instancing and phasing ruins alot, imho. At some point,..it's like,..ok ,..lets go play a normal party-rpg.

The Mass effect stuff is awesome,..but in Star Wars:ToR it is a paltry shadow of what it was because they simply cannot alter the persistent game world in such a way to cater to the thousands of choices from thousands of players without stepping on each other's toes. and then again,..you may as well play single player if you want such personal world altering story changes. At least at this point in the tech, imho.

Well, several things,

it will be as buggy as any game is buggy. Single or multiplayer. Bugs aren't the sole domain of multiplayer games

there are plenty of instances in games and the only issue is whether or not people like them. some do and some don't. As far as changing the game world you are absolutely correct, you can't change the larger game world for everyone's own unique story. That's why the instanced stories and why I mentioned Guild Wars. Of course some people have issues separating themselves from everyone else when doing any quest so that is going to be different per player.

I have no problems with instanced stories being separate from open world events/player interaction. I feel they are two different things. And how many times do you see a single player rpg being announced and people asking if there is multi-player? Already has happened with Pillars of Eternity. Clearly people enjoy such role play games, rich in story but with several players.

As far as what to do if someone wants to join you but they are not on the correct quest objective? My personal opinion is let them".

If they want to join out of sequence that's fine. I would have no problem with it. The game could either just give them full credit or give them some sort of "other credit" akin to being a helper.

They can then follow along in "their own story".

This is a problem of perception and taste, not a problem of it not being able to be done.

Maquiame · March 2015

Originally posted by Arazale
Just stop right there. Single player RPGs are good and play the way they do -because- they're single player. You will never get it to work nearly as well when you transition it over to an mmorpg. Things have to be changed and sacrificed when made into an mmo, just look at fucking ESO.

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

The Secret World did a halfway decent job at this and its considered to be in the top three of mmo storytelling to this day. Imagine if a studio did such a thing to a higher level. The story could be about great organizations and all the members that are in it. Make the "Organization and its members" (the player characters) special, not the individual player themselves. Make the focus of the story of everyone is important and has to work together, that no man is an island and that only through cooperation can the evil/task/issue can be taken care of.

Another game that had a good premise is Tabula Rasa, which was about the relocation of humanity from an alien invasion. Everyone had to work together, so everyone mattered. Too bad the game was cancelled. There is no mmorpg where the group is more important than the individual.

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Maquiame

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

This is a good point and I've also brought it up before.

The idea of having a larger overarching story (x country is invading your country and the politics and happenings because of that invasion could be an example) with smaller components that are multiplayer could be done.

Tabloid42 · March 2015

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Tabloid42

That sounds like a nightmare of buggy npc's and glitches. And what if a new player wants to group with you but is not on the same quest step?

Heavy instancing and phasing ruins alot, imho. At some point,..it's like,..ok ,..lets go play a normal party-rpg.

The Mass effect stuff is awesome,..but in Star Wars:ToR it is a paltry shadow of what it was because they simply cannot alter the persistent game world in such a way to cater to the thousands of choices from thousands of players without stepping on each other's toes. and then again,..you may as well play single player if you want such personal world altering story changes. At least at this point in the tech, imho.

Well, several things,

it will be as buggy as any game is buggy. Single or multiplayer. Bugs aren't the sole domain of multiplayer games

there are plenty of instances in games and the only issue is whether or not people like them. some do and some don't. As far as changing the game world you are absolutely correct, you can't change the larger game world for everyone's own unique story. That's why the instanced stories and why I mentioned Guild Wars. Of course some people have issues separating themselves from everyone else when doing any quest so that is going to be different per player.

I have no problems with instanced stories being separate from open world events/player interaction. I feel they are two different things. And how many times do you see a single player rpg being announced and people asking if there is multi-player? Already has happened with Pillars of Eternity. Clearly people enjoy such role play games, rich in story but with several players.

As far as what to do if someone wants to join you but they are not on the correct quest objective? My personal opinion is let them".

If they want to join out of sequence that's fine. I would have no problem with it. The game could either just give them full credit or give them some sort of "other credit" akin to being a helper.

They can then follow along in "their own story".

This is a problem of perception and taste, not a problem of it not being able to be done.

I concur alot comes to personal taste. As such I won't bother getting into specific if / thens in regards to mechanics,...but When I run up to an npc and my friend is like,..who are you talking to, I don't see anyone. that's a fail in my book. again , especially in regards to a living breathing MMO world. Personal taste like you say.

Some are fine with it. don't get me wrong,..I'd love to see it done,..a dream game, right, who doesn't?

I am a jaded MMO player and , secretly hope it turns around, but outwardly skeptical .

/em shakes cane

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Tabloid42

but When I run up to an npc and my friend is like,..who are you talking to, I don't see anyone. that's a fail in my book. again , especially in regards to a living breathing MMO world. Personal taste like you say.

And that's why I think that stories should be done in instances/instanced areas.

This way, when you are on a quest everyone in your party experiences what is happening.

Vermillion_Raventhal · March 2015

Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
You're pretty much describing the last 10 years of MMORPG themeparks lol.

1. None of the games I mentioned are themeparks

2. Name one themepark with a story as good as POE or any classic Infinity Engine rpg

SWTOR is essentially this type of game minus the sandbox. You could have a game like that but its hard to design a world like that and have the level of detail and lore.

Maquiame · March 2015

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Maquiame

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

This is a good point and I've also brought it up before.

The idea of having a larger overarching story (x country is invading your country and the politics and happenings because of that invasion could be an example) with smaller components that are multiplayer could be done.

Exactly, people act like we haven't seen these stories before.

Star Trek?

Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k?

Hell even something superhero oriented as The Avengers or Justice League Unlimited (the cartoon series)

The glory "Realm Pride" days of Dark Age of Camelot. Didn't it do this as well?

Tabloid42 · March 2015

Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Maquiame

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

This is a good point and I've also brought it up before.

The idea of having a larger overarching story (x country is invading your country and the politics and happenings because of that invasion could be an example) with smaller components that are multiplayer could be done.

Exactly, people act like we haven't seen these stories before.

Star Trek?

Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k?

Hell even something superhero oriented as The Avengers or Justice League Unlimited (the cartoon series)

The glory "Realm Pride" days of Dark Age of Camelot. Didn't it do this as well?

I can see this global storyline working out, where players work together or additively to alter the game world and world-story.

I know it's been attempted to varying degrees before. It's a nice buzzword. I did like how the RIFTs would mess with camps and npc hubs. Even if it was temporary. AA touted this sort of thing with but never really played out as expectations expected, imho.

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Tabloid42

but When I run up to an npc and my friend is like,..who are you talking to, I don't see anyone. that's a fail in my book. again , especially in regards to a living breathing MMO world. Personal taste like you say.

And that's why I think that stories should be done in instances/instanced areas.

This way, when you are on a quest everyone in your party experiences what is happening.

Well,..the one rub for me is. I am in the camp of open world, non instance. I like when everyone can see what I see. I like seeing others about, doing their own thing. maybe even benevolently assisting at times. Heck,..I love the spontanaety of trains finding players not just in a lobby.

That gets lost in heavy instancing. And I end up feeling like I am a loon talking to myself, but that's just me. They are two very opposing methods so I can't expect an easy solution.

Sovrath · March 2015

Originally posted by Tabloid42

Well,..the one rub for me is. I am in the camp of open world, non instance. I like when everyone can see what I see. I like seeing others about, doing their own thing. maybe even benevolently assisting at times. Heck,..I love the spontanaety of trains finding players not just in a lobby.

I wouldn't disagree. At all.

But for a game that is heavily story driven, unless those story points are designed for groups to participate, the only way I see them working is by instancing them.

Some might see this as "ruining it' I just see it as "different".

Amaranthar · March 2015

Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Maquiame

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

This is a good point and I've also brought it up before.

The idea of having a larger overarching story (x country is invading your country and the politics and happenings because of that invasion could be an example) with smaller components that are multiplayer could be done.

Exactly, people act like we haven't seen these stories before.

Star Trek?

Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k?

Hell even something superhero oriented as The Avengers or Justice League Unlimited (the cartoon series)

The glory "Realm Pride" days of Dark Age of Camelot. Didn't it do this as well?

I think the shift from "each player" to the community as a team would work very well for an MMO if the lore and plot are expansive and deep.

This is where Sandbox Worlds can really trump Themepark (where rinse and repeat are for everyone)

Maquiame · April 2015

Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Maquiame

I disagree. The problem with the mmorpgs nowadays is that the storylines are written from a single player perspective. Everyone is the sole hero of the world.

Are you saying that nobody can write a great story where -everyone- is important to the overall storyline and the story is written from a world view?

Such a storyline about the collective and not the individual would lay the foundation for an awesome story focused pve only sandbox as well.

This is a good point and I've also brought it up before.

The idea of having a larger overarching story (x country is invading your country and the politics and happenings because of that invasion could be an example) with smaller components that are multiplayer could be done.

Exactly, people act like we haven't seen these stories before.

Star Trek?

Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k?

Hell even something superhero oriented as The Avengers or Justice League Unlimited (the cartoon series)

The glory "Realm Pride" days of Dark Age of Camelot. Didn't it do this as well?

I think the shift from "each player" to the community as a team would work very well for an MMO if the lore and plot are expansive and deep.

This is where Sandbox Worlds can really trump Themepark (where rinse and repeat are for everyone)

Precisely

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Pillars of Eternity story/lore/depth in an ArcheAge/BlackDesert/Classic UO feature filled world. Wou

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