Originally posted by Horusra So....selling a product that people seem to want to buy is greed? People these days.....
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
Originally posted by Horusra So....selling a product that people seem to want to buy is greed? People these days.....
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
what's the point of your crusade?
They make a million $ budget per month and when the game releases they will sell a million copies on launch day, whether you like it or not.
Originally posted by Horusra So....selling a product that people seem to want to buy is greed? People these days.....
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
They had to tell some 30.000 early backers that the project will take a bit longer, because somewhat unexpected another 820.000 wanted to join in ... and with all that extra money things could be done that would otherwise have been implemented years after the game was launched. If you call THAT "breaking a deal" .....
So the "few with such a wish" numbered in the hundredthousands ....
Originally posted by Horusra So....selling a product that people seem to want to buy is greed? People these days.....
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
They had to tell some 30.000 early backers that the project will take a bit longer, because somewhat unexpected another 820.000 wanted to join in ... and with all that extra money things could be done that would otherwise have been implemented years after the game was launched. If you call THAT "breaking a deal" .....
So the "few with such a wish" numbered in the hundredthousands ....
Have fun
They can say anything, it doesn't make it true.
People like you would eat a shit sandwitch if someone told you it was a club with all the fixings.
By the time this game is release there is going to be players flying Death Stars the size of planets around and the regular players who cannot afford the exorbitant prices will be flying in mosquito size ships in comparison.
Originally posted by Horusra So....selling a product that people seem to want to buy is greed? People these days.....
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
They had to tell some 30.000 early backers that the project will take a bit longer, because somewhat unexpected another 820.000 wanted to join in ... and with all that extra money things could be done that would otherwise have been implemented years after the game was launched. If you call THAT "breaking a deal" .....
So the "few with such a wish" numbered in the hundredthousands ....
Have fun
They can say anything, it doesn't make it true.
People like you would eat a shit sandwitch if someone told you it was a club with all the fixings.
Have fun.
It doesn't make it untrue either. Unfortunately there's nothing you've added to the argument to make a logical argument. You're just acting like a Debbie Downer spreading dissonance around like a really, really sad Tinkerbell.
Here's the thing. You're right, they CAN say anything and it doesn't make it true. However, if you're given an acceptable amount of transparency then logical reasoning says that it's true. If I told you that McDonald's sold Big Macs, would you tell me "They can say anything, it doesn't make it true." You know what? If knowing that McDonalds will sell me a Big Mac if I go there is eating a shit sandwich then I'll eat a shit sandwich every day! because the last thing I want to have to do is go and validate every day for the rest of my life that McDonald's is still selling Big Macs and Twinkies are still back, and I can still buy pop tarts. Just give me my damn shit sandwich. If I drank your koolaid I feel like it'd cost me a lot more in the long run.
Originally posted by mayito7777 By the time this game is release there is going to be players flying Death Stars the size of planets around and the regular players who cannot afford the exorbitant prices will be flying in mosquito size ships in comparison.
What is the point of your "white knighting"? Pot meet kettle.
They make a million $ budget per month and when the game releases they will sell a million copies on launch day, whether you like it or not.
Speculation.
there is nothing to whiteknight, just people who don't understand the funding model or don't understand tht basic ship hulls are pretty much useless and will require endless work to outfit. Plus matchmaking is a concept some complainers have never ever heard of either. So let's rather blame the ignorance of the one who scream the loudest
Originally posted by Magnetia People seem to have the wrong idea about what all this ship selling is about. SELLING SHIPS IS NOT ABOUT HAVING BETTER SHIPS THAN OTHER PEOPLE.All these ships are going to be in game and earnable. So why are they on sale for money NOW?When you buy a ship you are STILL CROWFUNDING THE GAME - THE SHIP IS NOT WORTH $250In reality you are buying a 30 dollar ship and you are DONATING $220 for the GAME TO BE MADE.Think you're done donating? Then stop.You want the ship they're showcasing and don't want to spend money? WELL WAIT FOR THE GAME TO COME OUT AND STOP COMPLAINING.
How can it be a "Donation" if it is an exchange for goods?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Magnetia People seem to have the wrong idea about what all this ship selling is about.
SELLING SHIPS IS NOT ABOUT HAVING BETTER SHIPS THAN OTHER PEOPLE.
All these ships are going to be in game and earnable. So why are they on sale for money NOW?
When you buy a ship you are STILL CROWFUNDING THE GAME - THE SHIP IS NOT WORTH $250
In reality you are buying a 30 dollar ship and you are DONATING $220 for the GAME TO BE MADE.
Think you're done donating? Then stop.
You want the ship they're showcasing and don't want to spend money? WELL WAIT FOR THE GAME TO COME OUT AND STOP COMPLAINING.
How can it be a "Donation" if it is an exchange for goods?
However you want to break it down is up to you... You're perceived value of the ship aside, it is essentially a tiered reward system based on how much you donate to the games development. The more you put in the greater the ship you receive.I'm not sure why you'd need that broken down for you though, it's not hard to figure out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Magnetia People seem to have the wrong idea about what all this ship selling is about.
SELLING SHIPS IS NOT ABOUT HAVING BETTER SHIPS THAN OTHER PEOPLE.
All these ships are going to be in game and earnable. So why are they on sale for money NOW?
When you buy a ship you are STILL CROWFUNDING THE GAME - THE SHIP IS NOT WORTH $250
In reality you are buying a 30 dollar ship and you are DONATING $220 for the GAME TO BE MADE.
Think you're done donating? Then stop.
You want the ship they're showcasing and don't want to spend money? WELL WAIT FOR THE GAME TO COME OUT AND STOP COMPLAINING.
How can it be a "Donation" if it is an exchange for goods?
However you want to break it down is up to you... You're perceived value of the ship aside, it is essentially a tiered reward system based on how much you donate to the games development. The more you put in the greater the ship you receive.I'm not sure why you'd need that broken down for you though, it's not hard to figure out.
Perhaps its because CIG actually calls it sales, and that its a purchase, so people are in fact purchasing ships. Have fun explaining your tax's for your "donation". It is not a donation, it is a purchase.
Originally posted by Burntvet The longer this game is developed, the more it seems like a cult, and less an MMO.
It is neither.
"Is Star Citizen an MMO?
No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience."
Originally it sounded like you'd be able to play your own private version of Star Citizen, perhaps mod it etc but that no longer seems to be the case due to hardware requirements. From the last I'd seen on the matter it sounds like you'll be able to run modules and or a very watered down version of the PU. Is that still the situation?
Originally posted by Burntvet The longer this game is developed, the more it seems like a cult, and less an MMO.
It is neither.
"Is Star Citizen an MMO?
No! Star Citizen will take the best of all possible worlds, ranging from a permanent, persistent world similar to those found in MMOs to an offline, single player campaign like those found in the Wing Commander series. The game will include the option for private servers, like Freelancer, and will offer plenty of opportunities for players who are interested in modding the content. Unlike many games, none of these aspects is an afterthought: they all combine to form the core of the Star Citizen experience."
Originally it sounded like you'd be able to play your own private version of Star Citizen, perhaps mod it etc but that no longer seems to be the case due to hardware requirements. From the last I'd seen on the matter it sounds like you'll be able to run modules and or a very watered down version of the PU. Is that still the situation?
The latest info is, the private servers will allow you to run a private version of the game (with mods), but probably only a single server instance (so max. 100 people, depending on your server hardware). This will not be connected to the PU, but should allow a lot of its functionality. You should have a pretty powerful server machine - exact specs not finally defined yet.
The very latest news is that people from Google (who are themselves backers) suggested a variant of cloud computing to CIG to improve server capability and reduce cost. If that also applies to private servers - unknown.
So in summary:
a) private servers still in the plan
b) you will have ALL modules available
c) no "always on", therefore anything requiring a sync with the persistent universe not possible
Perhaps its because CIG actually calls it sales, and that its a purchase, so people are in fact purchasing ships. Have fun explaining your tax's for your "donation". It is not a donation, it is a purchase.
RSI is raising funds for the Game. You may select one or more of the pledges offered on the Website, or through RSI’s customer service, and pay the indicated amount(s) in accordance with the following terms agreed between you and RSI:
Your payment (“Pledge”) is a deposit to be used for (a) the production and delivery cost for the relevant pledge items (“Pledge Item Cost”), and (b) the development and production cost of the Game, including the costs of operating and hosting the Game, the Website and the other RSI Services, and RSI’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the “Game Cost”).
The Pledge shall be earned by RSI and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Pledge Item Cost and/or the Game Cost, with your Pledge being applied as follows: first to the Pledge Item Cost, and then on a pro rata pari passu basis with all other contributors whose deposits have been deducted by the relevant Pledge Item Cost, to the Game Cost.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, you may cancel your Pledge for any reason within 14 days of the date on which you made your Pledge if your Pledge is for Virtual Goods (as defined in Sec. 11 below) (“Cancellation Period”). RSI Intern. Terms of Service 1/2015_Draft Final
To cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period, you simply need to notify us in writing of your decision to cancel your Pledge. The easiest way to do so is to complete and submit to us our cancellation form which can be found here. You can also cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period by emailing us at support@cloudimperiumgames.com.
If you cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period, we will without undue delay, and in any event within fourteen (14) days from the date on which we receive notice of your decision to cancel your Pledge, fully refund to you the amount of your Pledge. In accordance with applicable financial control and banking rules, we reserve the right to refund you using the same means of payment as you used to make your Pledge.
If you have received your Virtual Goods and cancel your Pledge within the applicable Cancellation Period, we will remove the relevant Virtual Goods you purchased from your Account once we have processed your cancellation notice and you will no longer be able to access or use those Virtual Goods.
RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date communicated to you on the Website. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, following the Cancellation Period, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that, following the Cancellation Period, you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.
Once RSI has delivered all pledge items to you and the Game has been commercially released to the public, all your payments for any RSI Services until such time shall become, and any payments thereafter shall be, non-refundable in whole or in part.
You acknowledge and agree that the pledge items delivered to you may differ in certain aspects from the description of those pledge items that was available on the Website at the time of your Pledge.
For the avoidance of doubt, all payments for items delivered immediately or soon after purchase, such as recurring website subscriptions, alpha passes, or RSI Intern. Terms of Service 1/2015_Draft FinalMerchandize (as defined in Sec. 9 below) are not covered by this Section 7, but by Section 8 below."
That should also clear up wether someone is eligible for a refund or not. EVERYONE that got ANY pledge package has agreed to these Terms of Service.
Perhaps I'm being daft but how does the word "pledge" fit when money is handed over on the spot. I always think of the word "pledge" as being used in the "I give you my word... " context so surely it's Roberts who is making the pledge, ie he is giving his word that if you pay X he will deliver Y.
As a purchaser you wouldn't pay there and then because what's the pledge in that situation. You would promise to pay if they come up with the goods, not pay upfront.
With Kickstarter it works because you're promising funds if they are successful in meeting their goal. The CIG store has no goal so it doesn't fit.
Perhaps its because CIG actually calls it sales, and that its a purchase, so people are in fact purchasing ships. Have fun explaining your tax's for your "donation". It is not a donation, it is a purchase.
RSI is raising funds for the Game. You may select one or more of the pledges offered on the Website, or through RSI’s customer service, and pay the indicated amount(s) in accordance with the following terms agreed between you and RSI:
Your payment (“Pledge”) is a deposit to be used for (a) the production and delivery cost for the relevant pledge items (“Pledge Item Cost”), and (b) the development and production cost of the Game, including the costs of operating and hosting the Game, the Website and the other RSI Services, and RSI’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the “Game Cost”).
The Pledge shall be earned by RSI and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Pledge Item Cost and/or the Game Cost, with your Pledge being applied as follows: first to the Pledge Item Cost, and then on a pro rata pari passu basis with all other contributors whose deposits have been deducted by the relevant Pledge Item Cost, to the Game Cost.
Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in these Terms of Service, you may cancel your Pledge for any reason within 14 days of the date on which you made your Pledge if your Pledge is for Virtual Goods (as defined in Sec. 11 below) (“Cancellation Period”). RSI Intern. Terms of Service 1/2015_Draft Final
To cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period, you simply need to notify us in writing of your decision to cancel your Pledge. The easiest way to do so is to complete and submit to us our cancellation form which can be found here. You can also cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period by emailing us at support@cloudimperiumgames.com.
If you cancel your Pledge during the applicable Cancellation Period, we will without undue delay, and in any event within fourteen (14) days from the date on which we receive notice of your decision to cancel your Pledge, fully refund to you the amount of your Pledge. In accordance with applicable financial control and banking rules, we reserve the right to refund you using the same means of payment as you used to make your Pledge.
If you have received your Virtual Goods and cancel your Pledge within the applicable Cancellation Period, we will remove the relevant Virtual Goods you purchased from your Account once we have processed your cancellation notice and you will no longer be able to access or use those Virtual Goods.
RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date communicated to you on the Website. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.
For the avoidance of doubt, following the Cancellation Period, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that, following the Cancellation Period, you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.
Once RSI has delivered all pledge items to you and the Game has been commercially released to the public, all your payments for any RSI Services until such time shall become, and any payments thereafter shall be, non-refundable in whole or in part.
You acknowledge and agree that the pledge items delivered to you may differ in certain aspects from the description of those pledge items that was available on the Website at the time of your Pledge.
For the avoidance of doubt, all payments for items delivered immediately or soon after purchase, such as recurring website subscriptions, alpha passes, or RSI Intern. Terms of Service 1/2015_Draft FinalMerchandize (as defined in Sec. 9 below) are not covered by this Section 7, but by Section 8 below."
That should also clear up wether someone is eligible for a refund or not. EVERYONE that got ANY pledge package has agreed to these Terms of Service.
The fact is, CIG are offering items for spacific amounts, you give them that amount and you get that item. The fact that CIG"s version of a pledge does not in fact follow the actual real world meaning, does not make CIG right.
Comments
It is when it's tied to the fact that they delayed the whole damn thing, breaking a deal made with all backers, for the sake to take advantage of a few with such wish.
what's the point of your crusade?
They make a million $ budget per month and when the game releases they will sell a million copies on launch day, whether you like it or not.
They had to tell some 30.000 early backers that the project will take a bit longer, because somewhat unexpected another 820.000 wanted to join in ... and with all that extra money things could be done that would otherwise have been implemented years after the game was launched. If you call THAT "breaking a deal" .....
So the "few with such a wish" numbered in the hundredthousands ....
Have fun
They can say anything, it doesn't make it true.
People like you would eat a shit sandwitch if someone told you it was a club with all the fixings.
Have fun.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
It doesn't make it untrue either. Unfortunately there's nothing you've added to the argument to make a logical argument. You're just acting like a Debbie Downer spreading dissonance around like a really, really sad Tinkerbell.
Here's the thing. You're right, they CAN say anything and it doesn't make it true. However, if you're given an acceptable amount of transparency then logical reasoning says that it's true. If I told you that McDonald's sold Big Macs, would you tell me "They can say anything, it doesn't make it true." You know what? If knowing that McDonalds will sell me a Big Mac if I go there is eating a shit sandwich then I'll eat a shit sandwich every day! because the last thing I want to have to do is go and validate every day for the rest of my life that McDonald's is still selling Big Macs and Twinkies are still back, and I can still buy pop tarts. Just give me my damn shit sandwich. If I drank your koolaid I feel like it'd cost me a lot more in the long run.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Haha, reminds me of this post - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20451&page=353&p=682564&viewfull=1#post682564
there is nothing to whiteknight, just people who don't understand the funding model or don't understand tht basic ship hulls are pretty much useless and will require endless work to outfit. Plus matchmaking is a concept some complainers have never ever heard of either. So let's rather blame the ignorance of the one who scream the loudest
How can it be a "Donation" if it is an exchange for goods?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
He said that the first 30$ was a trade (the real value of the package you get back), the rest of the money was a donation.
However you want to break it down is up to you... You're perceived value of the ship aside, it is essentially a tiered reward system based on how much you donate to the games development. The more you put in the greater the ship you receive.I'm not sure why you'd need that broken down for you though, it's not hard to figure out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Perhaps its because CIG actually calls it sales, and that its a purchase, so people are in fact purchasing ships. Have fun explaining your tax's for your "donation". It is not a donation, it is a purchase.
It is neither.
What is the plan for private servers?
Originally it sounded like you'd be able to play your own private version of Star Citizen, perhaps mod it etc but that no longer seems to be the case due to hardware requirements. From the last I'd seen on the matter it sounds like you'll be able to run modules and or a very watered down version of the PU. Is that still the situation?
Sorry, I refuse to buy 20 copies of "Citizenetics" by L Ron Roberts.
The latest info is, the private servers will allow you to run a private version of the game (with mods), but probably only a single server instance (so max. 100 people, depending on your server hardware). This will not be connected to the PU, but should allow a lot of its functionality. You should have a pretty powerful server machine - exact specs not finally defined yet.
The very latest news is that people from Google (who are themselves backers) suggested a variant of cloud computing to CIG to improve server capability and reduce cost. If that also applies to private servers - unknown.
So in summary:
a) private servers still in the plan
b) you will have ALL modules available
c) no "always on", therefore anything requiring a sync with the persistent universe not possible
Have fun
THAT is how CIG is OFFICIALLY calling it:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/tos
"VII. Fundraising & Pledges
RSI is raising funds for the Game. You may select one or more of the pledges offered on the Website, or through RSI’s customer service, and pay the indicated amount(s) in accordance with the following terms agreed between you and RSI:
MAGA
Perhaps I'm being daft but how does the word "pledge" fit when money is handed over on the spot. I always think of the word "pledge" as being used in the "I give you my word... " context so surely it's Roberts who is making the pledge, ie he is giving his word that if you pay X he will deliver Y.
As a purchaser you wouldn't pay there and then because what's the pledge in that situation. You would promise to pay if they come up with the goods, not pay upfront.
With Kickstarter it works because you're promising funds if they are successful in meeting their goal. The CIG store has no goal so it doesn't fit.
But that's just my view of it.
@Elsabolts:
Plenty of hand weapons being shown on the various Star Citizen info channels, especially for space marines on boarding duty
https://www.google.at/search?q=Star+Citizen+FPS+weapons&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JEsdVbCxLMPiU4HTgsAI&ved=0CB8QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=947
some of them in the pledge store (and that means: soon available for REC in game currency)
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/voyager-direct/Lh-Handgun/LH-86-Combustion-Handgun
one Laser Pistol you get as a backer
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Laser_pistol
There will be a crossbow in game, a twin to the same weapon in Richard “Lord British” Garriott's Shroud of the Avatar
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Armor-piercing_crossbow
To my knowledge no concept sales for handweapons at the moment. And AFAIK none planned.
Have fun
i wonder why you bitch RSI. people pay, so what do you think they'd do? stop selling?
you are cute. welcome to marketing.
if things sell, they are being sold. simple.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Oh look "SALE"
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14623-Relentless-Predator-The-Aegis-Vanguard
The fact is, CIG are offering items for spacific amounts, you give them that amount and you get that item. The fact that CIG"s version of a pledge does not in fact follow the actual real world meaning, does not make CIG right.
I dont get all this drama with pledge vs sell. They are selling ships and they recognized it on kickstarter. Also europe buyers pay VAT for the ships:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/351106
"Every single additional ship we offer for sale in the next 48 hours will never be sold for cash again"